Tne gimmick is tensor core/ AI accelerated Nintendogs.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
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P4bl0
Legend
Except a camera, a projector in the dock or an AI assistant/OS QoL improvements , not sure what they can really add on top to this machine since VR won't probably be this generation.
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Given the mic is pretty much 100% certain, and Nintendo's whole online safety thing, I'm still of the belief that the new button is a "Social" button that'll have a mic turn off shortcut. Friends list, NSO portal, voice chat controls, at the hit of a button.
oldpuck
Koopa
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Nintendo will sell this hardware the way they've sold every other piece of hardware they've made - with play. If customers want to play that and play that way then they'll want the hardware.
Nintendo doesn't need customers to understand why something looks good in order to use graphics to sell a game. See all the people who couldn't believe Prime 4 (or Pikmin 4 before it, or Tears of the Kingdom before that) was on Switch. They saw something they wanted, and couldn't believe it wasn't new technology. Imagine what Nintendo could do with new technology.
Nintendo will definitely explore new control schemes and gameplay types with this hardware. They always have. Labo, and Super Mario Party both show that there is potential in the existing hardware that's not explored. If Nintendo had featured the linking Switches from Super Mario Party in the January event for Switch, we'd be calling that the "gimmick". And Nintendo could certainly make a half dozen more games using those ideas.
Of course, we do have ideas about new inputs on the new hardware. And we know that Nintendo builds games in tandem with their hardware, and tries to make the games feature the hardware's function, and tries to make the hardware's function support new gameplay. So it's likely that those new inputs will be used in launch games. Whether that qualifies as a gimmick or not will be in the eyes of the audience, not Nintendo. Remember how many people were upset about Nintendo charging them money for HD Rumble, as a "bad gimmick"?
microphone according to the shipping manifests
D36
#FalseHeropon
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Tbf, Fromsoft were busy with stuff like Sekiro and Eldin Ring. I don't doubt that they could have lended their talents for Switch, though.
P4bl0
Legend
A mic is not a gimmick.
theguy
Chain Chomp
a what in the dock now?
OctoSplattack
Tingle
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Why a projector? I can see the use case, sure -- you want to play your Switch 2 game on a big screen, but you lack a TV or are outside -- but it isn't that valuable of one and would just add extra cost for little gain.
SebastianRooks
Rattata
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Is it possible that the T-239 uses the N4P node? Or impossible cause it was taped out earlier?
OP
OP
Assuming kopite7kimi is correct about TSMC's 4N process node being based on TSMC's N5P process node (which isn't too far off from TSMC's N4 process node used by Mediatek for fabricating the Dimensity 9000, which isn't much different from TSMC's N5 process node), and assuming SemiAnalysis is correct about TSMC's 4NP process node having a 6% optical shrink compared to TSMC's 4N process node (which lines up with TSMC mentioning that TSMC's N4 process node has a 6% smaller die area via optical shrink compared to TSMC's N5 process node), then probably not.
given how nintendo has used it in the past, yea it is. I expect launch day party games to have "blow into the mic" minigames
googaly10
Rattata
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I can definitely see them doing that, they’ve done it with every past system they made with a built-in mic. Though I feel with the modern era of gaming leaning towards online communication and such, Nintendo would probably sell it more as just a general mic to use for voice chat. It’s not like they can’t have quirky use cases for it in their games, but more long-term mic uses, such as talking with friends in an online lobby, would be prioritized more.
goombaicebro
Luma
P4bl0
Legend
I feel you but that’s not THE feature that would redefine the era if you know what I mean.
P4bl0
Legend
A projector integrated in the dock, so it could “replace” a TV in households.
Kinda like how the PS2 replaced DVD Players back then.
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That's what the built in screen already does
albumin
Rattata
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I would fully agree here if it weren't for where the mic is. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's on the tablet, not the joycons. This means you couldn't really use it for minigames at all in docked mode. If that type of thing were the goal, they'd do that with the joycons so it could be used in mario party or warioware type games, and so you could do multiplayer with that, but that doesn't seem to be a case.
My personal guess is that it's only in the console and pro controller. idk how much of a barrier this would be to kids using it since they can still do handheld mode, but I think the type to use voice chat and the type to buy a pro controller are similar groups. Maybe this sort of thing helps to keep the joycon price lower (idk how expensive a mic is), but regardless I'm less confident that it's a minigame thing if it's not on the joycons.
To be honest, looking through the history of Nintendo, I'm starting to wonder if the whole "gimmick" narrative is actually a bit oversold.
NES to SNES? there were shoulder buttons and the controller was rounder, but it was not much more than a graphic improvement. Same with the SNES to N64. Yes, the N64's controller was funky as heck, but there wasn't really a unique and distinct method of playing (though I guess an argument could be made for analog control sticks). The graphics leap WAS the gimmick since we were jumping from 8-bit to 16-bit to 64-bit pretty fast.
N64 to Gamecube? it was small, purple, could be lugged around, and came with tiny discs, but it was still mostly a graphic improvement.
By and large, it was the same deal with the handhelds. Maybe even more-so. Game Boy Classic, Pocket, Color, Advance...
It was specifically the DS, Wii, Wii U, and most recently the Switch, that were 'gimmicky". They were the ones to say "Here's an entirely new way of playing games that you didn't have before". This time, you have to swing a TV remote. This time, you have TWO screens and a tablet pen. This time, you have a giant controller with a screen. This time, you have a console that be played handheld AND on the TV.
I suppose a lot of it comes to what is defined as a gimmick. However wacky Nintendo's consoles and their controllers looked (and how many buttons they had), each generation was mostly just a power increase and not, love it or hate it, some crazy new way to play video games...
I suppose if the Switch 2 does have only a few changes (the new buttons, magnets, a microphone) and not much else since it's keeping to the same exact form-factor as before, that's actually par for the course. Especially for a handheld console.
NES to SNES? there were shoulder buttons and the controller was rounder, but it was not much more than a graphic improvement. Same with the SNES to N64. Yes, the N64's controller was funky as heck, but there wasn't really a unique and distinct method of playing (though I guess an argument could be made for analog control sticks). The graphics leap WAS the gimmick since we were jumping from 8-bit to 16-bit to 64-bit pretty fast.
N64 to Gamecube? it was small, purple, could be lugged around, and came with tiny discs, but it was still mostly a graphic improvement.
By and large, it was the same deal with the handhelds. Maybe even more-so. Game Boy Classic, Pocket, Color, Advance...
It was specifically the DS, Wii, Wii U, and most recently the Switch, that were 'gimmicky". They were the ones to say "Here's an entirely new way of playing games that you didn't have before". This time, you have to swing a TV remote. This time, you have TWO screens and a tablet pen. This time, you have a giant controller with a screen. This time, you have a console that be played handheld AND on the TV.
I suppose a lot of it comes to what is defined as a gimmick. However wacky Nintendo's consoles and their controllers looked (and how many buttons they had), each generation was mostly just a power increase and not, love it or hate it, some crazy new way to play video games...
I suppose if the Switch 2 does have only a few changes (the new buttons, magnets, a microphone) and not much else since it's keeping to the same exact form-factor as before, that's actually par for the course. Especially for a handheld console.
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Why the Pro Controller? If it's on the console you don't need it on the controller.
Where it is makes a tonne of sense, and of course it makes for easy integration in handheld mode, but for TV mode it means stuff like, easy voice chat with multiple people (a stated goal of Wii Speak and Nintendo Switch Online's implementation), free-hand kareoke, voice commands and more. Xbox One and PS4 both had the mic integrated in the camera unit, and both worked pretty alright, so having it near the television isn't a huge problem.
Really the ONLY thing having the mic sticking out the dock as part of the console, rather than in the controller, actually prevents, is "blow into the mic to X", which was pretty low hanging fruit as mic gameplay goes anyway.
Dario
Nintenaddict
The only interesting idea I could find on Famiboards is that the new regular dock plus the new Switch could transform into a VR headset. ( Metroid Prime 4 VR would be the first "killer app")
I believe !
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Cheetah6442
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Respond to this kinda late, but eh. You are wrong amigo. That footage looked fantastic. Nothing about this looked rough or bad. Like did we see the same footage here?
Dario
Nintenaddict
Forgot about this!
It can split in 2, offer dual screens like DS and split between console and TV like Wii U!
Nintendo Duo ! All previous Nintendo consoles in one! One to bind them all!
Plus VR! No? Anyone?!
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No, haha.
VR would be a gimmick and would necessitate goggles. We've had absolutely seen evidence by now, and likely for a very long time, if that was a direction Nintendo wanted to go on. Same honestly with duel screens. There's no way the shipping data or any of the leaks till now would have missed something as big as that.
Dario
Nintenaddict
Maybe. If there are two same screens (also attached with magnets) would the data necessarily show It? Does the data inform us about the dock's shape ? I suppose goggles would appeared... But maybe not!
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The new VR will still be in LABO form, there is no evidence that the switch2 has a second screen.
Dario
Nintenaddict
Well I'm clearly interested in the gimmick/innovation Nintendo would propose. What could It be ?!
Jimmy Joe
Good ol' Jimmy Joe
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In fairness, I don't think Fromsoft wants to do that kind of exclusivity deal anymore, unless they can retain rights to the IP (and are provided an amount of money that can make up the difference, which would be a high price for this company post-Dark Souls 3)
They don't want to have a Bloodborne situation where it's widely loved but can't be rereleased because it's held hostage by another publisher
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Not sure, but I'm guessing it has something to do with magnets and AR, magnets are in evidence, AR no evidence found so far, but Furukawa did mention in 2020 that Nintendo is interested in AR technology.
Dekuman
Gerudo
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Furukawa's statement fits neatly into a financial reporting period, it gives us a maximum time limit for them to announce so I wouldn't read to much into it., Nothing from the direct changes the March schedule as we went from having no visibility of H2 2024 into having a very good lineup, nothing of significance has been announced by them past January 2025, except for one game and that's Metroid Prime 4, a game widely expected to be cross gen.
I'd change my mind if we're in October and there's no sign of them dropping a reveal trailer, but October is still a good 4 months away.
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Dario
Nintenaddict
Were motion controls for Wii and dual screens for DS known before the consoles were revealed ?
Dario
Nintenaddict
So.. with a camera? Does the data talk about this? Or transparent screen?! Lets get crazy!
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The problem with the dual screen idea is that the way we currently understand the size of the switch2, adding a second screen would become quite quite heavy, which is basically impossible, and I think LABO is Nintendo's best VR solution, the portable console itself acts as all of the components for VR, and you only need to buy cheap LABO kits to put together a VR, and I'm sure they'll continue to work on it along those lines.
Dario
Nintenaddict
I understand your opinion but that doesn't answer the question.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I don't know if there was a leaking process prior to the release of the wii and ds because considering those two consoles were almost 20 years ago, whether or not there were such huge forum leaks at that time is not clear to me.
I don't think Nintendo needs to market to every possible market. Despite it's boom in recent years, VR is still pretty small all things considered. It'd really only add in additional cost and complexity. It could be a market they could tap into, but It'd be best if it was a stand-alone product. VR headsets also aren't cheap. The latest Oculus Quest is $500. The one from Valve is $1000. It's really an entirely different medium and I'm not sure how Nintendo could hypothetically make it a thing and still sell a Switch 2 for $400-500. How many Nintendo VR games are there? how many do they plan on making to justify goggles coming in the box?
There could be a huge surprise but I'd like to think we would have heard something by now if there was some wacky gimmick. The Switch's form-factor IS itself a gimmick and one that's paid off more than anything Nintendo has ever done. They don't really need to invent the wheel and it doesn't look like they're trying too.
Dario
Nintenaddict
True, there was no Famiboards, no resetera and no.. can't even remember the previous one!
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
There's bound to be a new gimmick, but we just can't conclude what it is at the moment, but the magnet alone is something I can associate with combining it with a gyroscope to create interesting inputs.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
NeoGAF wasn't officially created until 2006, but there should have been early forums everywhere before then.
Dario
Nintenaddict
VR is small.. until Nintendo enters the competition ! They know how to innovate softwares to make hardware appealing.
We already stated the fact that Nintendo VR solution would be a cheap one with dock+ console or labo being the headset.
And I believe there will be a new innovation (don't really like the word gimmick, too pejorative) besides Switch form factor.
Dario
Nintenaddict
Cool. How would that work? What can magnets do with gyroscope ?
Dario
Nintenaddict
Yes, Neogaf! Thanks!
IamPeacock
Piranha Plant
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Cheap and also very uncomfortable. One of the worst ideas is to use a switch form factor as a VR screen. Cool for short sessions and basic gameplay like Labo.
Playing a full-fledged Mario or Zelda game with it, no thanks.
Dario
Nintenaddict
Mario and Zelda are bad exemples 'cause they are third-person games. Metroid Prime is the obvious candidate for VR. And I'd easily see myself tolerate this console VR solution for this game!
As the "neo" in the name implies, NeoGAF wasn't actually the original forum. It actually started as the forum section of a news site called "Gaming-Age" as the Gaming-Age Forums, or GAF. The history is complicated, and I wasn't really around for that part of it, but I think it originally launched back in the 90s.
IamPeacock
Piranha Plant
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Do you have experience with VR? A fast-paced game like Metroid should be running at 90fps if you want to avoid motion sickness. It will also be very demanding in terms of resolution.
VR games on Switch 2 will also be completely stationary, as it won't have any capability of room tracking. If it does, it will need to have external tracking systems (expensive and cumbersome) or multiple cameras and IR for inside-out tracking.
I don't blame them, but a lot of people don't realize the advanced tech Quest 3, Steam Index and others have to provide a smooth experience in VR/AR.
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Back before NeoGaf we had GameFAQs and the official Nintendo Nsider Forums. Man, I feel old.
Dario
Nintenaddict
Yes I have.
Aren't 60fps (left and right sides) enough? Also tracking system on the console and the joycons sufficient? Labo demonstrated that well enough I think. No motion sickness and good tracking.
And DLSS can be used for resolution..?
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