StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[darthdiablo]

Do you think with the magnets that was labeled in the shipping data for Switch 2 and the joy-cons will prevent Nintendo from using hall effect sticks? With having to replace 4 joy-cons on the regular switch, I figured analog stick durability will be a priority for the next console

Magnets are not my forte but someone here mentioned magnets could be electromagnetic, which means magnets would have to be electronically induced to be magnetized, and then electronically induced again (or somehow, someone correct me if I'm wrong on mechanism) to demagnetize.

Might or might not interfere with halls effect setup, but wanted to share note that electromagnetic might make things possible. Again, not my forte.

 

[PeachyLaCox]

Do you think with the magnets that was labeled in the shipping data for Switch 2 and the joy-cons will prevent Nintendo from using hall effect sticks? With having to replace 4 joy-cons on the regular switch, I figured analog stick durability will be a priority for the next console

I'm pretty sure they would have thought of it beforehand?

 

[Guaraná]

you guys are very famous now.

 

[oldpuck]

Regarding: 7nm

I hear some folks being dismissive about DF's comments on 7nm. DF clips sometimes trim context, so I just wanted to add in a bit. TSMC 7nm and related nodes are totally reasonable possibilities, even though we almost never talk about them here.

Nvidia's datacenter versions of Ampere are built on TSMC 7, and still pretty popular products. That means both the core GPU architecture is already on that node, and Nvidia already has capacity there. Nvidia moved RTX 30 to 8nm in a somewhat dramatic move, supposedly because the yields (the number of chips that worked) on TSMC 7nm were quite poor.

7nm is quite a mature node now, and highly used for products with long tails (the Xbox Series and PS5 are all on variants of that node). 7nm, when combined with other power saving technologies, might have landed in a sweet spot for Nintendo.

I think the odds here are low, but I don't think it's insane. Nvidia is out here saying 4nm is expensive, but also publishing power draw numbers that say 8nm isn't viable - that only leaves the options as "Nintendo ponied up for battery life" (it's the thing that most people agree Nintendo would pony up for), Nvidia has power saving tech that doesn't appear elsewhere (something we have evidence for), or "a different node bridges the cost/power consumption gap" - something 7nm potentially slots into.

 

[Branduil]

I will never willingly buy another controller that suffers from analog drift. It's honestly unacceptable for console producers to continue making controllers they know will suffer from drift when Hall Effect sticks are now freely available from third parties.

I believe there was some sort of patent from Nintendo for analog sticks which did not have direct physical contact with a resister, so it seems quite possible they'll use that. I'm not sure if that patent involved magnets or not.

 

[Serif]

Fairly certain it's been their philosophy since the GameCube.

Well low power consumption specifically has been their philosophy with developing handhelds since the Game Boy. The Wii's development focused on low power consumption to ensure the physical footprint of the console was small and attractive for living rooms to draw in a bigger audience. But I wouldn't characterize it as 'high performance in spite of low power consumption' as Takeda said, especially in the context of a hybrid console as he mentions. I don't recall Nintendo ever mentioning 'Wii' and 'high performance' in the same sentence, whereas this is very explicit.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Regarding: 7nm

I hear some folks being dismissive about DF's comments on 7nm. DF clips sometimes trim context, so I just wanted to add in a bit. TSMC 7nm and related nodes are totally reasonable possibilities, even though we almost never talk about them here.

Nvidia's datacenter versions of Ampere are built on TSMC 7, and still pretty popular products. That means both the core GPU architecture is already on that node, and Nvidia already has capacity there. Nvidia moved RTX 30 to 8nm in a somewhat dramatic move, supposedly because the yields (the number of chips that worked) on TSMC 7nm were quite poor.

7nm is quite a mature node now, and highly used for products with long tails (the Xbox Series and PS5 are all on variants of that node). 7nm, when combined with other power saving technologies, might have landed in a sweet spot for Nintendo.

I think the odds here are low, but I don't think it's insane. Nvidia is out here saying 4nm is expensive, but also publishing power draw numbers that say 8nm isn't viable - that only leaves the options as "Nintendo ponied up for battery life" (it's the thing that most people agree Nintendo would pony up for), Nvidia has power saving tech that doesn't appear elsewhere (something we have evidence for), or "a different node bridges the cost/power consumption gap" - something 7nm potentially slots into.

Does 7nm support portable mode drake to turn on the same 500mhz-600mhz clock frequency as previously speculated in this thread?

 

[Hermii]

Regarding: 7nm

I hear some folks being dismissive about DF's comments on 7nm. DF clips sometimes trim context, so I just wanted to add in a bit. TSMC 7nm and related nodes are totally reasonable possibilities, even though we almost never talk about them here.

Nvidia's datacenter versions of Ampere are built on TSMC 7, and still pretty popular products. That means both the core GPU architecture is already on that node, and Nvidia already has capacity there. Nvidia moved RTX 30 to 8nm in a somewhat dramatic move, supposedly because the yields (the number of chips that worked) on TSMC 7nm were quite poor.

7nm is quite a mature node now, and highly used for products with long tails (the Xbox Series and PS5 are all on variants of that node). 7nm, when combined with other power saving technologies, might have landed in a sweet spot for Nintendo.

I think the odds here are low, but I don't think it's insane. Nvidia is out here saying 4nm is expensive, but also publishing power draw numbers that say 8nm isn't viable - that only leaves the options as "Nintendo ponied up for battery life" (it's the thing that most people agree Nintendo would pony up for), Nvidia has power saving tech that doesn't appear elsewhere (something we have evidence for), or "a different node bridges the cost/power consumption gap" - something 7nm potentially slots into.

DF wasn't talking about tsmc 7nm, they were talking about the Samsung lph/ blt rumor.

 

[rinku]

I'm pretty sure they would have thought of it beforehand?

Given that magnets on the rails will be static (i.e on or off and not time varying). They’d be able to pretty simply account for any induced drift through an offset in software, in the instances where the magnets are either on or off.

That is to say if the magnets induce any drift in the first place, they could be pretty short range with a strong fall off in the field strength. Which is the most likely scenario given the magnets we’re talking about here are likely very small and a magnetic field’s range is heavily dependent on the physical dimensions of the magnetised object itself. (This is the reason why, while the Earths magnetic field is exceptionally weak, it is ridiculous in range due to the size of its core)

 

[Hermii]

Well low power consumption specifically has been their philosophy with developing handhelds since the Game Boy. The Wii's development focused on low power consumption to ensure the physical footprint of the console was small and attractive for living rooms to draw in a bigger audience. But I wouldn't characterize it as 'high performance in spite of low power consumption' as Takeda said, especially in the context of a hybrid console as he mentions. I don't recall Nintendo ever mentioning 'Wii' and 'high performance' in the same sentence, whereas this is very explicit.

Iwata:
That's similar to the concept we discussed in "The Wii Hardware" with regard to low power consumption and high performance.

Takeda:
Yes. Ever since the Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo has concerned itself with how to improve the game computer's efficiency while constraining power consumption, and this has been consistent in that design concept.

Iwata Asks - Wii U: The Console - Page 1

Read the in-depth interview conducted by former Nintendo Global President Satoru Iwata.

iwataasks.nintendo.com

 

[Serif]

Iwata:
That's similar to the concept we discussed in "The Wii Hardware" with regard to low power consumption and high performance.

Takeda:
Yes. Ever since the Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo has concerned itself with how to improve the game computer's efficiency while constraining power consumption, and this has been consistent in that design concept.

Iwata Asks - Wii U: The Console - Page 1

Read the in-depth interview conducted by former Nintendo Global President Satoru Iwata.

iwataasks.nintendo.com

I stand corrected. This is a fun line:

Iwata
This time, supervising overall hardware development must have felt like making a home console and a handheld device at the same time! (laughs)

Anyways, I consider it an odd description of the Wii. I suppose with the GameCube being 'high performance' for its generation they considered squeezing that into a smaller profile 'high performance with low power consumption'. I agree that it fits the Wii U closer. But again the reason I quoted Takeda is for the specific invocation in relation to making a hybrid console which is why I mention Switch and Muji. The reason I bring it up is just as a preempt to 'Nintendo doesn't care about power' arguments and in relation to handhelds that Nintendo 'cares about battery life at all costs'. They do, but they were willing to let their flagship title run for 3 hours (still decent) on their launch Switch hardware because they needed something that could noticeable perform as well or better than their last console. Then as soon as they could they immediately moved onto the more power efficient 16nm process.

 

[maniacmaison]

DF Rich thinks it could be clocked 750mhz portable at 8nm. They have no clue.

It baffles me that they are supposed to know better and yet they keep on making weird statements.

 

[SirArthur]

An interesting comparison video. While the Iphone 15 has more advanced tech, by not having a way to mitigate heat, it still falls behind the ps4/xbone generation.

While I dont think switch 2 will get Death Stranding, Mirage and RE4 will be an interesting comparison.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I stand corrected. This is a fun line:

Anyways, I consider it an odd description of the Wii. I suppose with the GameCube being 'high performance' for its generation they considered squeezing that into a smaller profile 'high performance with low power consumption'. I agree that it fits the Wii U closer. But again the reason I quoted Takeda is for the specific invocation in relation to making a hybrid console which is why I mention Switch and Muji. The reason I bring it up is just as a preempt to 'Nintendo doesn't care about power' arguments and in relation to handhelds that Nintendo 'cares about battery life at all costs'. They do, but they were willing to let their flagship title run for 3 hours (still decent) on their launch Switch hardware because they needed something that could noticeable perform as well or better than their last console.

It should be noted that the Wii was, in my opinion, Iwata's and Nintendo's hardware department's way of braking the ever-increasing cost and power consumption of the hardware after the 6th generation, so it's normal that the Wii didn't meet the true meaning of "low-power, high-performance".

 

[Serif]

It should be noted that the Wii was, in my opinion, Iwata's and Nintendo's hardware department's way of braking the ever-increasing cost and power consumption of the hardware after the 3rd generation of the 6th generation, so it's normal that the Wii didn't meet the true meaning of "low-power, high-performance".

Yeah I think a desired goal of theirs was to have it be the thickness of 2-3 DVD cases. I remember when the Wii released it looked 'futuristic' because of the small vertical appearance and shiny blue light (lol), it not being HD was like the last thing in my 8 year old mind.

 

[Gerald]

Nope. It will be PC before Switch 2.

Rockstar always was and is Console first company

 

[Maronic03]

Time to pretend I always was a regular in this thread to get a piece of that sweet 15 minutes internet fame!

 

[Gerald]

Yeah Rockstar are one of the developers that will have Switch 2 at dead last when it comes to their priorities.

RDR2 was never ported to Switch 1 for obviously reasons

 

[darthdiablo]

Rockstar always was and is Console first company

Correct

 

[darthdiablo]

Time to pretend I always was a regular in this thread to get a piece of that sweet 15 minutes internet fame!

?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

 

[Concernt]

Talked many times about it but im believe they will port it to Switch 2, but after PS5 and XSX|XSS Premiere, what is 100% fully focus for Rockstar Games

Nope. It will be PC before Switch 2.

If it comes out after Switch next, I would expect it to be day and date, like the last GTA release.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

For a company like Rockstar that is nearly known for extremely photorealistic graphics, I personally don't really trust how well gta6 will run on switch2, if I were to play it I should still go with the ps5 platform.

 

[darthdiablo]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

That would be purely business decision. Switch 2 will be more than capable of running Wilds.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

Switch2 is more than enough to run Wilds.

 

[Concernt]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

Why not both?

 

[Switcharoo]

Rockstar always was and is Console first company

Which they refer to Xbox/PS consoles. Not Nintendo. PC will come first before Switch 2 (if they are even considering porting GTA VI to Switch 2)

EDIT: Also, did they specifically ever say that?? I know via patterns and history they support console, but they never explicitly said so (perhaps from an ex-dev)

 

[Maronic03]

?

The discussion about the specs coming from this very thread is being discussed in a bunch of other places (Reddit, Resetera...).

It's the first time I've seen Famiboards mentionned so much in such a short time.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Why not both?

That’d be so amazing I’d explode.

 

[Gotdatmoneyy]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

Based on realistic guesses it should be capable. But again, we wont really know until we get clocks.

 

[gabeplays]

With regards to RAM:

One of the worst decisions Nintendo could do is make a SKU that has more RAM because it means a number of their customers who purchased another model can't play a certain game. For example, if there's a "Switch 2 Pro" will 16gigs of RAM at $500 and a very popular game was developed for it, what about the majority of users who bought the base model at launch? or the Lite digital-only version at launch?

Nintendo knows what they're doing. Having multiple Switch 2 models available, starting with the base LCD model that will be released at launch, is the way to go instead of putting all of their eggs into this one "Super Switch" with 16gigs of RAM, OLED screen, and so-on that some families wouldn't be to afford.

There absolutely will be multiple SKU's just like the Switch, but the features that are different are non-essential. The primary differences between the Switch, Switch Lite, and Switch OLED, are the aforementioned OLED screen, storage space, and the physical size. That's it. The actual guts of the Switch including the RAM are the same so that it doesn't matter which model you have. You can still play whatever Nintendo game you want.

It will absolutely be the same with the Switch 2. All this is say that 12gigs of RAM is what the Switch 2 will have through it's lifespan. I'm confident there will be Switch 2 OLED with 512gig of internal storage and a small Switch 2 Lite that's smaller and perhaps digital only, but they're not going to upgrade the RAM or anything that would mean players who own a different SKU will be unable to play a game they want.

 

[ZonaiResearcher]

If I may add some possible hopium to 4 nm debate...

So I'm on record being more on the pessimistic side in terms of expectations from nintendo, and the reason for that is, I admit, mainly due to the “because Nintendo” argument. But the other day I came to a sudden realization: what if the “because Nintendo” argument itself is flawed?


I can't speak for anyone else here, but for me the “because Nintendo” arguments started in the wii days. Up until the Wii, Nintendo was running highly competitive even possibly state-of-the-art hardware.

So what I'm actually trying to say is: what if the “because Nintendo” was inside us all along?

Super Nintendo: No CD drive
Nintendo 64: No dedicated sound chip, no CD drive
GameCube: No full-DVD size game disc, no online support
Wii: No HD support
Wii U: Using the same core design as Wii, slow UI
Switch: No support for 4K or HDR output despite X1 supporting it, limited cartridge sizes for publishers, downclocked cores holding back performance, no USB-3 support, Wi-Fi chip held back by system limitations

There's always been a "because Nintendo" since the very beginning. Going way back to NES, Kutaragi thought it was old technology and underpowered which is why he lobbied Nintendo to build the SNES sound chip and then the SNES CD add-on.

 

[Puikko]

Don’t mean to derail but do you guys think Monster Hunter Wilds will come to the Switch 2 or do you think the other team will make a specific one for it???

Whether it comes or not is entirely a business decision on Capcoms part.

The Switch 2 should be more than capable of running Monster Hunter Wilds. What matters is Capcoms opinion on releasing new software on fresh hardware. Capcom is usually pretty late to the party, opting to release ports and remasters early on instead.

 

[gabeplays]

As for the node again --- yes, the SoC is based on Ampere, but we've known for a long time that there are features backported from Ada Lovelace. One of which is power consumption and how much more efficient it is. What node is Lovelace made with? TSMC 4N.

Nintendo will skimp on the non-essentials like an OLED screen and additional storage space if it means being cost-effective and releasing a more "premium" SKU down the line. They won't skimp on the guts that actually make their console better across the board.

 

[Ab]

problaby in January 2025(if Nintendo reveal Switch sucessor in septembre/octobre, it will massively impact Switch sales, the reveal need to be later then septembre/octobre)

Okay? It's better to give the NEW machine more time in the spot light so it sells well compared to the 8 years old console

 

[Steve]

With regards to RAM:

One of the worst decisions Nintendo could do is make a SKU that has more RAM because it means a number of their customers who purchased another model can't play a certain game. For example, if there's a "Switch 2 Pro" will 16gigs of RAM at $500 and a very popular game was developed for it, what about the majority of users who bought the base model at launch? or the Lite digital-only version at launch?

Nintendo knows what they're doing. Having multiple Switch 2 models available, starting with the base LCD model that will be released at launch, is the way to go instead of putting all of their eggs into this one "Super Switch" with 16gigs of RAM, OLED screen, and so-on that some families wouldn't be to afford.

There absolutely will be multiple SKU's just like the Switch, but the features that are different are non-essential. The primary differences between the Switch, Switch Lite, and Switch OLED, are the aforementioned OLED screen, storage space, and the physical size. That's it. The actual guts of the Switch including the RAM are the same so that it doesn't matter which model you have. You can still play whatever Nintendo game you want.

It will absolutely be the same with the Switch 2. All this is say that 12gigs of RAM is what the Switch 2 will have through its lifespan. I'm confident there will be Switch 2 OLED with 512gig of internal storage and a small Switch 2 Lite that's smaller and perhaps digital only, but they're not going to upgrade the RAM or anything that would mean players who own a different SKU will be unable to play a game they want.

I’m excited to see how the lite version of the Switch 2 will look.

Also Myamoto if your reading this, please make a Switch SKU next year with a shell design, because those look neat as hell. Also make it slightly more powerful than the base Switch for GameCube on NSO.

 

[Semi Lazy Gamer]

you guys are very famous now.

Famousboards?

 

[P4bl0]

I’m excited to see how the lite version of the Switch 2 will look.

Also Myamoto if your reading this, please make a Switch SKU next year with a shell design, because those look neat as hell. Also make it slightly more powerful than the base Switch for GameCube on NSO.

Yikes

 

[John Omaha]

Why not both?

I don't think it's in their best interest to segment their dev pipeline like that nowadays, especially if the Switch successor can handle Wilds without too many issues. Unless you're making heavy use of a console's unique feature or getting a big bag from a platform holder, you're better off making one game and releasing it on as many viable platforms as possible.

 

[Steve]

Yikes

It was the best imagine I could find and I think the shell design is neat. Will it happen… sadly no.

 

[ILikeFeet]

An interesting comparison video. While the Iphone 15 has more advanced tech, by not having a way to mitigate heat, it still falls behind the ps4/xbone generation.

While I dont think switch 2 will get Death Stranding, Mirage and RE4 will be an interesting comparison.

a cpu clock increase would definitely put the Switch in spitting distance of the latest Iphone. I said before that I feel like the big games on iphone feel like what a switch version would be, resolution and all

 

[Serif]

you guys are very famous now.

March - November 2022: Stolen data from Nvidia reveals GPU spec for Switch 2 including architecture, # of CUDA / tensor / RT cores, confirmation of DLSS, Git commits reveal CPU configuration
Internet: * i sleep *

May 2024: Hey we uncovered the RAM + storage type and amount, a built-in mic and here are those specs from two years ago again
Internet: * real shit? *

It feels like we were the only ones that cared back then lol.

The new info is definitely exciting but it's a little odd to see information that's been thoroughly exhausted with analysis get a new bunch of reactions and reading a whole lot of 'too good to be true'. I guess people stopped paying attention to Switch 2 leaks due to feeling burned from Switch 4K reporting even though that Nvidia data is straight from the horse's mouth (or rather, computer).

But it's probably for the better for a lot of people to find out now, they'll only have to wait another year for the real thing and Nintendo did officially speak up about it which makes it more of a concrete thing to look forward to.

 

[Gerald]

If it comes out after Switch next, I would expect it to be day and date, like the last GTA release.

What do you mean? No GTA was day and date on Nintendo

 

[Zedark]

What do you mean? No GTA was day and date on Nintendo

I guess GTA Trilogy...

 

[imfake2]

March - November 2022: Stolen data from Nvidia reveals GPU spec for Switch 2 including architecture, # of CUDA / tensor / RT cores, confirmation of DLSS, Git commits reveal CPU configuration
Internet: * i sleep *

May 2024: Hey we uncovered the RAM + storage type and amount, a built-in mic and here are those specs from two years ago again
Internet: * real shit? *

It feels like we were the only ones that cared back then lol.

The new info is definitely exciting but it's a little odd to see information that's been thoroughly exhausted with analysis get a new bunch of reactions and reading a whole lot of 'too good to be true'. I guess people stopped paying attention to Switch 2 leaks due to feeling burned from Switch 4K reporting even though that Nvidia data is straight from the horse's mouth (or rather, computer).

But it's probably for the better for a lot of people to find out now, they'll only have to wait another year for the real thing and Nintendo did officially speak up about it which makes it more of a concrete thing to look forward to.

i think its cause everything feels so much more real now that the systems been acknowledged by nintendo

 

[carbvan]

I don't think it's in their best interest to segment their dev pipeline like that nowadays, especially if the Switch successor can handle Wilds without too many issues. Unless you're making heavy use of a console's unique feature or getting a big bag from a platform holder, you're better off making one game and releasing it on as many viable platforms as possible.

I don't know what they could do with one Monster Hunter to stretch it for an entire generation. The games historically had sold a base game, and then sold an upgraded version with more content. This changed with Monster Hunter World because the platforms it released on allowed for easier distribution via DLC. I assume Capcom sees there's some money being lost by charging $40 for a new expansion, rather than selling a new $60 version of the game. They have 2 different dev teams working on Monster Hunter, so I think a big AAA release by the home console team and a more traditional yet experimental half sequel by the portable team (even though they don't really make portable games specifically anymore) is the trend going forward. Anyways, point being is Capcom has a very successful schedule and formula the fanbase is pretty used to, and introducing a more live-servicey monetization model is not a proven success and could alienate a lot of their audience.

 

[Serif]

i think its cause everything feels so much more real now that the systems been acknowledged by nintendo

Yeah I mention that at the bottom

 

[John Omaha]

I don't know what they could do with one Monster Hunter to stretch it for an entire generation. The games historically had sold a base game, and then sold an upgraded version with more content. This changed with Monster Hunter World because the platforms it released on allowed for easier distribution via DLC. I assume Capcom sees there's some money being lost by charging $40 for a new expansion, rather than selling a new $60 version of the game. They have 2 different dev teams working on Monster Hunter, so I think a big AAA release by the home console team and a more traditional yet experimental half sequel by the portable team (even though they don't really make portable games specifically anymore) is the trend going forward. Anyways, point being is Capcom has a very successful schedule and formula the fanbase is pretty used to, and introducing a more live-servicey monetization model is not a proven success and could alienate a lot of their audience.

Nah, I'm not talking about making one MH game per gen. What I meant is that it is more efficient to release one game across all viable platforms than to segment the development and marketing pipelines like they did with World and Rise.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I don't think it's in their best interest to segment their dev pipeline like that nowadays, especially if the Switch successor can handle Wilds without too many issues. Unless you're making heavy use of a console's unique feature or getting a big bag from a platform holder, you're better off making one game and releasing it on as many viable platforms as possible.

But aren't you even better off releasing two games on as many viable platforms as possible? Rise was the Switch-aimed Monster Hunter, but still ended up everywhere. Just this time around, it'll be easier for Switch to get the PS-aimed Monster Hunter as well. In the end, not so different from having several multiplatform Resident Evils throughout a generation.

 

[Giancarlo]

so when can expect Nintendo to begin the mass production/manifacture of Switch sucessor? this summer/fall?