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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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My Tulpa said:
No offense, but says who? lol

I dont think Nintendo feels they need a new 3D Mario to be larger in scope and having more mechanics going on than, say, TotK.

I also dont believe they had a great new way to play 3D Mario and they made sure Drake hardware was built to accomplish their new gameplay idea goals (assuming the new hardware has no hidden new gameplay gimmick that we don’t know about).
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I personally believe Bowser’s Fury was a bit of a preview of what the next 3D Mario will be - a seemless open world that connects all the levels. Considering the Switch just barely manages to run Bowser’s Fury as-is, an expansion of the concept could very well require new hardware to confidently execute.

Also, Switch 2 will absolutely need at least some big exclusives.
 
My Tulpa said:
Nintendo wants the new hardware to push Switch library sales and engagement not use popular title exclusivity to push people to move to expensive new hardware as soon as possible.
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the latter has been Nintendo's entire business strategy since the SNES
 
Raccoon said:
all of my old switch games are going to have weird issues and quirks and I think that stinks
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You don't even know that.

The software solution is something we don't know, but looking at other solutions in the industry, these things have been solved before and will be solved again. 3DS playing DS had "weird issues and quirks", it had a badly placed D-Pad and smeared the already low resolution image across a screen resolution that didn't suit. If anything it's likely that NG Switch will help more than it hinders, with modern upscaling 720p games in handheld mode should look just as good or better on the new 1080p screen. That's before we consider who will develop enhancement patches and for what, which could massively improve the experience of these games on the new system.

I just don't understand how someone can be so pessimistic and definitive about something we've not even seen yet. It's just not true at the moment, the truth is we don't know how NG Switch will handle Switch games, but the likely answer isn't "weird", it's "well".
 
Raccoon said:
yo really? I was just a dipshitted kid then

...and my wii was on a crt, the wii u an lcd
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Eh, yes and no. Wii U provided a soft upscale and a HDMI signal, some people prefer the "raw" look, but Wii U didn't somehow take away resolution from Wii games or anything. Wii U might "look worse" than Wii games in the case that you compare the Wii U's output to a modern Wii HDMI adapter, but not only is that still kind of subjective, and those devices didn't really exist back then, but it's not a fair comparison. Comparing component or SCART is a much fairer comparison where Wii U looks better in most scenarios.
 
Bonejack said:
Wouldn't the part of Nintendo/nVidia offering devs tools to have BC improvements on the games kinda mean that regular, non-enhanced BC works pretty much flawlessly?
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I think so, but not necessarily, it could be a case of "fix our mess for us".
 
Bonejack said:
Wouldn't the part of Nintendo/nVidia offering devs tools to have BC improvements on the games kinda mean that regular, non-enhanced BC works pretty much flawlessly?
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That's what it implies yeah. It essentially just means they're offering the chance for development of further improvements. What those "further improvements" mean is vague, but i imagine that, with time, stuff like better framerates, resolutions, texture resolution, model improvements and, just maybe, retroactive Ray-Tracing support might be possible.

That's only from interpretation though.
 
SoldierDelta said:
That's what it implies yeah. It essentially just means they're offering the chance for development of further improvements. What those "further improvements" mean is vague, but i imagine that, with time, stuff like better framerates, resolutions, texture resolution, model improvements and, just maybe, retroactive Ray-Tracing support might be possible.

That's only from interpretation though.
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As I've expressed before, unless Nintendo policy disallows it, those improvements should have no upper limit; developers can use an "update" to rip out and replace the Switch 1 version with a Switch 2 version, all bells and whistles included. Updates that rip out and replace a game are not a new phenomenon, not even on Switch, and it happened a few times with next gen updates on Xbox.
 
Bonejack said:
But there's one thing even i can absolutely guarantee you: They will do more open world Zelda goodness in future entries!
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Yup - as an aside, there's a good way of doing open world Zelda (BotW) and a bad way (TotK). Having more technological leeway and Nintendo staffing up so enormously recently will hopefully help preventing another TotK situation!

We'll learn more at their GDC talk perhaps. I feel like 80% of TotK development was the tech team bashing against the Switch's limitations.

how do yall think i handled trying to pass my totk feelings as on-topic?
 
Raccoon said:
all of my old switch games are going to have weird issues and quirks and I think that stinks

thinking more reasonably about it though it won't be that big of a deal. the size is a much worse issue for me, and both combined means it'd probably be worthwhile to keep my oled model to play old games. I didn't use the wii or ds after the wii u or 3ds came, but the division of the library won't be that bad I suppose
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It seems to me like you are just assuming all the worst case scenarios will come to fruition.


1. 99% of the library will probably work just fine with no issues and quirks.

2. It probably wont be as big as you envision.
 
Raccoon said:
I seriously can't believe how awful this thing sounds in every respect

It all comes down to expectations I think. I sort of twisted it in mind into a no-compromises extension of the Switch, with everything I like staying exactly the same, including the existing library. This was always unrealistic, because it's not the Switch becoming new, it's a new Switch. It was always going to have changes, by design or by necessity, and I was always not going to like some of them.

despite it (at least allegedly) being a very straight "Switch 2" it is going to be its own thing and I should take it at face value instead of how much it disappoints me

thank you as always for the explanation though and sorry for using it as a springboard for my own thoughts
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You used to be quite level headed so it makes me sad how you’ve developed such a negative mindset, especially about a system that hasn’t even been revealed.

I’d personally wait on the reveal since your worst expectations & thoughts will be reversed when you see this hardware.

Everyone will be so happy - unless you bet the house on this being Switch Pro.
 
Concernt said:
As I've expressed before, unless Nintendo policy disallows it, those improvements should have no upper limit; developers can use an "update" to rip out and replace the Switch 1 version with a Switch 2 version, all bells and whistles included. Updates that rip out and replace a game are not a new phenomenon, not even on Switch, and it happened a few times with next gen updates on Xbox.
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Yeah agreed. This will probably allow games like Witcher 3, Doom/Eternal and cloud versions of Switch 1 games to either be improved to current gen versions or get ported natively, while also giving games that still look good on Switch 1 the option of improvements. I don't know how Nintendo is going about this, either through free updates or "next-gen" paid upgrades, but i don't really mind how they do that.

I am curious how far it can go though. Like... there's very little reason to go as far as adding RT or DLSS in 4K for some versions, but i'd be happy to see them if nothing else. I'm also curious as to how they'll roll these updates out, like I'm wondering if they're going to have games gradually offer next-gen patches for each game (like at launch we'll see several landmark titles get these patches like BotW and Odyssey while more games get support as time goes on). Idk, lots of ways to handle this.
 
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Hermii said:
i meant solely for portable mode. Implementing it this way will be fairly cheap and trivial compared to a 120hz/ VRR.
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Ah, agreed, but again you'd end up with the input lag issue - I tried 40ps at 40hz on my Steam Deck once, and it was not nice. I would love to see the Switch 2 come with a 90 or 120hz screen to utilise this effect. I honestly think the 45fps at 90hz is a major improvement of the Steam Deck OLED that adds a compelling reason to upgrade - you can get the input lag of 60fps at 60hz but with notably less stress on the processor, effectively giving you a graphical upgrade. 45fps at 90hz becoming a standard profile for the Switch 2 portable mode would be awesome.

Hermii said:
As for your second point, I don't understand why it would make a difference, but can't argue with benchmarks.
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Yeah, I find it confusing as well, and I'd love to see a technical breakdown of what causes it. I'm not going to complain about it, though, it's fantastic and I wish it was used more.
 
I find kind of funny that in the same pages in which some users are talking about the challenges of Switch 2 BC because of the massive architectural differences and stuff, another one is just going his way with the "Switch Pro" theory.
 
BreakAtmo said:
Ah, agreed, but again you'd end up with the input lag issue - I tried 40ps at 40hz on my Steam Deck once, and it was not nice. I would love to see the Switch 2 come with a 90 or 120hz screen to utilise this effect. I honestly think the 45fps at 90hz is a major improvement of the Steam Deck OLED that adds a compelling reason to upgrade - you can get the input lag of 60fps at 60hz but with notably less stress on the processor, effectively giving you a graphical upgrade. 45fps at 90hz becoming a standard profile for the Switch 2 portable mode would be awesome.



Yeah, I find it confusing as well, and I'd love to see a technical breakdown of what causes it. I'm not going to complain about it, though, it's fantastic and I wish it was used more.
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Glad to see someone else is getting how beneficial it can be.
 
Concernt said:
The whitepaper came out in 2012; Nintendo Switch in 2017. Nintendo Switch obviously came in under regulatory limits on interference or it wouldn't have been allowed to release. The risks posed in 2012 didn't stop USB 3.0 in 2014. It simply doesn't follow that it would stop it in 2024.

Nintendo was aware of the situation, as was every other manufacturer putting USB 3.0 in the same device as 2.4Ghz WiFi, Xbox and PlayStation both. This is an old paper that outlines mitigation efforts that have since, broadly speaking, occured, and I certainly don't think a single report from 12 years ago can classify as "infamy".
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Nintendo still left that port at USB 2.0 speeds. Why they did that I don't know the full details to, but they swapped the port out for an Ethernet jack for the OLED model.
 
Bonejack said:
At this point, i'd expect the biggest thirds, like Capcom or SQEX, to have final devkits.
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I presume those had formal dev kits and have received or are starting to receive the finanlized ones.

But I was thinking more along the lines of smaller devs receiving dev kits that show no hint of it being for a Switch like successor.
 
Sorry to be mixing metaphors, lol. But as far as BC goes I really do think Switch 1 games on Switch 2 will largely "just work" with no real enhancements by default. Thinking PS4 on PS5 or Xbox One on Xbox Series. (Except I do think Switch 2 will have 4k output docked.) So that brings back the Wii on Wii U outputting 480p in 1080p.

They could use something like DLAA / TAA automatically for the upres, which might leave the image a little soft. Similar to Wii on Wii U (which only used bilinear scaling IIRC.)

That said, just like certain games are patched for 60fps on Xbox Series, or how games can be patched to a native PS5/Xbox Series executable, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't provide that ability should developers choose to do it. I just think the list of the games to receive patches would be pretty small.
 
manfromthedam said:
Yup - as an aside, there's a good way of doing open world Zelda (BotW) and a bad way (TotK). Having more technological leeway and Nintendo staffing up so enormously recently will hopefully help preventing another TotK situation!

We'll learn more at their GDC talk perhaps. I feel like 80% of TotK development was the tech team bashing against the Switch's limitations.

how do yall think i handled trying to pass my totk feelings as on-topic?
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We always find ways to stay on-topic./s
 
We're in a better situation than the DS -> 3DS or Wii -> Wii U scaling, dealing with higher res source and output this time.

Unpatched Switch 1 games that get a 720p -> 1080p upscale will look acceptable. Especially 3D games.

Interpolated pixels will have a more noticeable impact on unpatched 2D pixel art titles, I'll personally keep around my Switch 1 for those titles.
Still, the resulting image won't be a blurry mess - just softened.

Native 720p vs. 720p bilinear upscale to 1080p vs. native 1080p, using approximate Switch OLED to "Switch 2" screen ratios

dread.png

dread-1080p.png

3637597021635245110gol1.jpg


(Sorry the native 1080p shot isn't 1:1)
 
dillyro said:
Hmmm..? I stubbornly must find it
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Yes, that is the one I was talking about Thank you.
dillyro said:
As a game software developer, if you ask me whether Nintendo Switch has sufficient performance, I would not say it is lacking. However, game developers generally want more, and will always want to incorporate a lot of elements that exceed the hardware limitations.
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They didn't outright say that They are requesting more powerful hardware, but They kinda implied it here.
 
korok said:
I find kind of funny that in the same pages in which some users are talking about the challenges of Switch 2 BC because of the massive architectural differences and stuff, another one is just going his way with the "Switch Pro" theory.
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gotta hand it to Tulpa, he's consistent
 
oldpuck said:
Proton only solves one of the two problems a Switch BC layer would need to solve. It's a really hard problem to explain, unfortunately. I've struggled to come up with a ELI5 about it.

Switch 1 backwards compatibility might be the hardest backwards compatibility problem in the history of consumer electronics. Maybe Xbox 360 compat on Xbox One was arguably harder? But there are a bunch of tricky circumstances that aren't Nintendo or Nvidia's fault, but backed them into a corner. I fully expected Nintendo to deliver on it, but if they manage to achieve "most users never notice" level of BC, it will be a huge (and likely undersung) accomplishment.
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Could you explain it like I'm 25 and have programming experience, but am not necessarily familiar with GPU-specific terminology?
 
ziggyrivers said:
How likely is that Nintendo provided limited dev kits to some 3rd parties, and then will hand them the full ones so they can finish development for those upcoming games?
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I can't rule that out as a possibility with Nintendo. What I will say is the source I have on this received a proper Dev kit because they discussed Backwards Compatibility with me last year when they revealed the whole deadline spiel to me that I've been going off of.

I'm not sure if Nintendo would go that far but they might have gone that far for certain leak heavy companies if they had to provide them with dev kits as well. It would explain some of the differences in what was being leaked out in regards to backwards compatibility where you had some insider's stating it didn't and others stating it did.
 
Erathix said:
I can't rule that out as a possibility with Nintendo. What I will say is the source I have on this received a proper Dev kit because they discussed Backwards Compatibility with me last year when they revealed the whole deadline spiel to me that I've been going off of.

I'm not sure if Nintendo would go that far but they might have gone that far for certain leak heavy companies if they had to provide them with dev kits as well. It would explain some of the differences in what was being leaked out in regards to backwards compatibility where you had some insider's stating it didn't and others stating it did.
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Deadline spiel? Like March or something else?
 
We may be about a month away from the announcement and there have been no leaks on what the Switch 2 will look like.
Is the common thought always that the start of production coincides with the announcement?


P. S. please let's stop talking about TotK since there are people who haven't even played it yet.
 
Erathix said:
I can't rule that out as a possibility with Nintendo. What I will say is the source I have on this received a proper Dev kit because they discussed Backwards Compatibility with me last year when they revealed the whole deadline spiel to me that I've been going off of.

I'm not sure if Nintendo would go that far but they might have gone that far for certain leak heavy companies if they had to provide them with dev kits as well. It would explain some of the differences in what was being leaked out in regards to backwards compatibility where you had some insider's stating it didn't and others stating it did.
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Thanks for your input! And yes, I presume the leak inaccuracies could be related to the different types of dev kits they’ve delivered. I presume there must be:
• Dev Kits where you can develop for both Docked and Undocked profiles, plus new Joycon features;
• Same as above, but a Pro Controller for secrecy
• Same as above, but no Backwards Compatibility development

And so forth
 
darthdiablo said:
Deadline spiel? Like March or something else?
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The Deadline I was provided has been what I've been mentioning in my previous posts. There is a window the software they are working on has to be finished and marketable by which is internally Q2 2024. Which means at any point within that quarter, the Switch 2 has to be announced, revealed and a Direct needs to occur with the launch line-up because this is part of that line-up.

That is why I have speculated a Q4 2024 release because I doubted heavily that the console would be launched so close to a reveal. June makes the most sense for an E3-esque Switch 2 Direct blow out. I assumed announcement would happen very soon before that or at a minimum, sometime in May to prepare.

But based on Nate's recent update, the announcement could happen sooner than I first thought. It doesn't throw a wrench into the Q2 2024 window but it makes me wonder how everything else is lining up now.
 
Concernt said:
They make fools of us all.
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Speaking of fools, I might’ve been handed a rope in which to hang myself. Finally got some answers, at least as it pertains to my thesis on Wall Street chatter/stock movements and how it can be used reasonably to predict things. I’ve never had to network this hard before but I’ll mention it once I feel comfortable that it passes my own sniff test.
 
Shareholder Chad said:
Speaking of fools, I might’ve been handed a rope in which to hang myself. Finally got some answers, at least as it pertains to my thesis on Wall Street chatter/stock movements and how it can be used reasonably to predict things. I’ve never had to network this hard before but I’ll mention it once I feel comfortable that it passes my own sniff test.
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Ropes are fun, aren't they 😂
 
Shareholder Chad said:
Speaking of fools, I might’ve been handed a rope in which to hang myself. Finally got some answers, at least as it pertains to my thesis on Wall Street chatter/stock movements and how it can be used reasonably to predict things. I’ve never had to network this hard before but I’ll mention it once I feel comfortable that it passes my own sniff test.
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I forgot their name, but you reminded me of that sniffing reporter from Apollo Justice xD

Also, speaking of dev kits:


 
Shareholder Chad said:
Speaking of fools, I might’ve been handed a rope in which to hang myself. Finally got some answers, at least as it pertains to my thesis on Wall Street chatter/stock movements and how it can be used reasonably to predict things. I’ve never had to network this hard before but I’ll mention it once I feel comfortable that it passes my own sniff test.
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WTF are you about to lose a ton of money or am I not understanding the metaphor?
 
ziggyrivers said:
I forgot their name, but you reminded me of that sniffing reporter from Apollo Justice xD

Also, speaking of dev kits:


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Dev Kits are always so peculiar, you'd almost want limited edition consoles just based on their Dev Kits just for the collector's factor and looking at their prehistoric selves.

...Does anybody want LE Dev Kit Consoles?
 
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