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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Hey everyone, finally started the youtube channel, I'll start putting out content regularly, but I also decided to do a monthly podcast, it's recorded live on the last Saturday of every month at 9am pacific as the month in review, anyone is welcomed to join (first come, first serve) and discuss the topics that are posted the week leading up to the podcast. Anyways NES Transmission's first episode is available. We discuss the whole month, but that includes FSR on the Switch and the Creatures dev talking about using DLSS and UE5. Thanks Alovon and Dakhil for joining me, hope everyone interested can find it enjoyable.
 
Seeing how much lower res Pokemon SV is than Game Freak’s previous Switch games I find myself wondering if SV was made with Dane in mind.
I'd not think about it that way. A more likely explanation is that GF is pushing their engine to the limit and needs some optimization to increase the resultion from now till release date.
I don't think PS4 fidelity will take much. ARM A78 cores at 1.5GHz even 7 of them (for games and reserved 1 for OS at an independent clock) on 8nm would use FAR less energy than 4 Ryzen 2 cores at 3GHz on 7nm. If we take a quick look at Turing based MX550 that was recently announced, it uses GDDR6 (power hungry memory) on 12nm and still offers ~PS4 Pro level of fidelity with 25 watts. 8nm is a huge jump from 12nm, (around 33% reduction in power consumption) in terms of this GPU, if the RAM uses 10 watts and the GPU is using 15 watts, you'd see an 8nm version of this PS4 Pro level chip, consume up to 10 watts.

Ampere is more energy efficient per flop, though performance is lower per flop, it is also important to note that Orin and Dane have the extra cache (if Kopite7's comments about Ada lovelace are accurate). I'm suggesting a reduction of half the power consumption, which should result in ~2TFLOPs of Ampere performance on 8nm for up to 7 watts for just the GPU, in handheld the original Switch used almost 10watts, there is some room for more power consumption in the newer model, so they should have no trouble hitting original PS4 performance in handheld mode without even using DLSS in a power consumption similar to the original Switch. Thanks to features like FSR/NIS and DLSS, the portable mode could have longer battery life and still offer PS4+ fidelity on the go, while docking and pushing into PS4 Pro/XBSS performance.
I'd also add that keeping the screen res at 720p further favors Dane perf/battery life trade-off, since it only needs to match XB1's horsepower to reach last gen level of visual fidelity in handheld mode.
 
Hey everyone, finally started the youtube channel, I'll start putting out content regularly, but I also decided to do a monthly podcast, it's recorded live on the last Saturday of every month at 9am pacific as the month in review, anyone is welcomed to join (first come, first serve) and discuss the topics that are posted the week leading up to the podcast. Anyways NES Transmission's first episode is available. We discuss the whole month, but that includes FSR on the Switch and the Creatures dev talking about using DLSS and UE5. Thanks Alovon and Dakhil for joining me, hope everyone interested can find it enjoyable.
very interesting. Thanks!
 
If the announcement trailer is bad: "that needs Dane"

If the announcement trailer is good: "that was Dane"
It’s so weird how people are crazy about the next hardware. I remember when the new Mario Rabbids spark of hope got announced. People wanted that game to be a switch pro game so bad. To me it looked no different than the first one. It was very weird.
 
Seeing how much lower res Pokemon SV is than Game Freak’s previous Switch games I find myself wondering if SV was made with Dane in mind.
Probably not since Game Freak's usually quite slow to developing games for new hardware. Remember that Game Freak released Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon on the Nintendo 3DS more than half a year after the Nintendo Switch launched.

Anyway, although this is not related to the DLSS model*, and is probably not related to future Nintendo hardware, Lenovo announced that the ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 5 has a SD Express 7.0 card reader. Hopefully, that's an indication that the consumer electronics industry is beginning to widely adopt SD Express.
 
It’s so weird how people are crazy about the next hardware. I remember when the new Mario Rabbids spark of hope got announced. People wanted that game to be a switch pro game so bad. To me it looked no different than the first one. It was very weird.
It didn’t help that you had people, like Schreier for example, during and after the conference be like, “yeah this was on Pro hardware” to really fan the flames.
 
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Take what's apparently being reported with a huge grain of salt. But this is definitely very interesting, assuming there are grains of truth to what's apparently being reported.
 
very big discounts to get companies on 4nm. but I think Dane on 4nm will work very well. all the shit we're hearing about is because companies are pushing their chips past reasonable clocks to win benchmark wars. when you can get 95% performance at 80% the clock on 8nm, you're pushing harder than you need to, but you won't win those benches

Nintendo doesn't need any of that, so they can reap better performance and lower power consumption
 
very big discounts to get companies on 4nm. but I think Dane on 4nm will work very well. all the shit we're hearing about is because companies are pushing their chips past reasonable clocks to win benchmark wars. when you can get 95% performance at 80% the clock on 8nm, you're pushing harder than you need to, but you won't win those benches

Nintendo doesn't need any of that, so they can reap better performance and lower power consumption
I do wonder how good Dane's yield rate could be if Samsung's 5LPP process node (assuming the rumour about Qualcomm using a customised variant of Samsung's 5LPP process node called Samsung's 4LPX process node for the fabrication of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 is true), Samsung's 4LPE process node, or Samsung's 4LPP process node, is used. There are rumours about the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 having a yield rate of 35% and the Exynos 2200 having a yield rate lower than 35%. And I imagine Dane's GPU could be physically bigger compared to the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1's and Exynos 2200's GPUs, although Dane's GPU frequency probably won't be as high as the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1's and Exynos 2200's GPU frequencies, which probably helps with Dane's yield rate.

I do think Nintendo and Nvidia could use Samsung's 5LPE process node if there are plans to die shrink Dane in the future, especially since Samsung's 5LPE process node doesn't seem to be outright terrible, considering Qualcomm seems to have stuck with Samsung's 5LPE process node for the fabrication of the Snapdragon 888 and the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3, unlike the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1, which is rumoured to be fabricated using TSMC's N4 process node for 2H 2022.

NVIDIA-ADA-LOVELACE-GPUS-768x535.png

:unsure:
 
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I do wonder how good Dane's yield rate could be if Samsung's 5LPP process node (assuming the rumour about Qualcomm using a customised variant of Samsung's 5LPP process node called Samsung's 4LPX process node for the fabrication of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 is true), Samsung's 4LPE process node, or Samsung's 4LPP process node, is used. There are rumours about the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 having a yield rate of 35% and the Exynos 2200 having a yield rate lower than 35%. And I imagine Dane's GPU could be physically bigger compared to the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1's and Exynos 2200's GPUs, although Dane's GPU frequency probably won't be as high as the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1's and Exynos 2200's GPU frequencies, which probably helps with Dane's yield rate.

I do think Nintendo and Nvidia could use Samsung's 5LPE process node if there are plans to die shrink Dane in the future, especially since Samsung's 5LPE process node doesn't seem to be outright terrible, considering Qualcomm seems to have stuck with Samsung's 5LPE process node for the fabrication of the Snapdragon 888 and the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3, unlike the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1, which is rumoured to be fabricated using TSMC's N4 process node for 2H 2022.

NVIDIA-ADA-LOVELACE-GPUS-768x535.png

:unsure:
Looking through the wiki TX1 is GM20B, TX2 is GP10B, and Xavier is GV10B, Orin is probably something like GA10B

AD10B looks to be in line with those, probably for Atlan
 
Take what's apparently being reported with a huge grain of salt. But this is definitely very interesting, assuming there are grains of truth to what's apparently being reported.

Wouldn’t this require Samsung to further increase the amount of production they’re capable of?
 
Wouldn’t this require Samsung to further increase the amount of production they’re capable of?
I think so, although assuming the rumours about Qualcomm using a customised variant of Samsung's 5LPP process node called Samsung's 4LPX process node for the fabrication of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 and Qualcomm having the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 be fabricated using TSMC's N4 process node for 2H 2022 are true, then Samsung could offer Nvidia the capacity formerly secured by Qualcomm. (Of course, that's contingent on Nvidia wanting that capacity to begin with.)
 
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The fun thing about Pokémon SV getting announced, is that, if anything, it actually kind of points to Dane being imminent. If Dane isn't out by the time it releases, it would be the first Pokémon generation ever not to adopt any sort of new hardware.
 
The fun thing about Pokémon SV getting announced, is that, if anything, it actually kind of points to Dane being imminent. If Dane isn't out by the time it releases, it would be the first Pokémon generation ever not to adopt any sort of new hardware.
Didn't Game Freak release Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon for the Nintendo 3DS more than half a year after the Nintendo Switch launched?
 
Didn't Game Freak release Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon for the Nintendo 3DS more than half a year after the Nintendo Switch launched?
I'm specifically talking about new generations, not third versions (which obviously stick to the same hardware as the initial pair) or spin-offs (which get pretty random).

Gen 1 is GB
Gen 2 is GBC enhanced/exclusive
Gen 3 is GBA
Gen 4 is DS
Gen 5 is DSi enhanced
Gen 6 is 3DS
Gen 7 is New 3DS enhanced
Gen 8 is Switch
Following the pattern, that would make Gen 9 Dane enhanced
 
I'm specifically talking about new generations, not third versions (which obviously stick to the same hardware as the initial pair) or spin-offs (which get pretty random).

Gen 1 is GB
Gen 2 is GBC enhanced/exclusive
Gen 3 is GBA
Gen 4 is DS
Gen 5 is DSi enhanced
Gen 6 is 3DS
Gen 7 is New 3DS enhanced
Gen 8 is Switch
Following the pattern, that would make Gen 9 Dane enhanced
Pokepatterns are as solid as they come.
 
Pokepatterns are as solid as they come.
Yeah, the only caveats to this pattern are international Yellow, which had simple GBC enhancements added during localization that were not in the original release, and, if you really want to argue it, Let's Go which is a very weird project that seemingly forked off Sword and Shield very early in development.
 
Looking through the wiki TX1 is GM20B, TX2 is GP10B, and Xavier is GV10B, Orin is probably something like GA10B

AD10B looks to be in line with those, probably for Atlan
Yeah, codenames ending in B are always SoC integrated GPUs going by Nvidia's history, so it's a very safe guess that AD10B is the same. I'm not 100% sure it's Atlan, though. That's due to arrive in 2025, but we would expect the post-Ada gaming GPU architecture in late 2024, so it would seem a little unusual for them to not use the newer architecture. Not impossible, but unusual. Meanwhile Orin is officially Ampere, so presumably GA10B, as you say.

It's possible that AD10B is Dane's GPU. Not that it makes a significant difference to expectations, I would still expect a GPU architecture very much in line with Orin, but there may be some small changes owing to the extra 6 months or a year of time before tape out, and most importantly it will likely not be officially revealed until after Nvidia's Ada desktop GPUs, so it would allow them to use the name for marketing without "spoiling" the new desktop reveal, which would have been the case had they labelled Orin's GPU as Ada.
 
Yeah, codenames ending in B are always SoC integrated GPUs going by Nvidia's history, so it's a very safe guess that AD10B is the same. I'm not 100% sure it's Atlan, though. That's due to arrive in 2025, but we would expect the post-Ada gaming GPU architecture in late 2024, so it would seem a little unusual for them to not use the newer architecture. Not impossible, but unusual. Meanwhile Orin is officially Ampere, so presumably GA10B, as you say.

It's possible that AD10B is Dane's GPU. Not that it makes a significant difference to expectations, I would still expect a GPU architecture very much in line with Orin, but there may be some small changes owing to the extra 6 months or a year of time before tape out, and most importantly it will likely not be officially revealed until after Nvidia's Ada desktop GPUs, so it would allow them to use the name for marketing without "spoiling" the new desktop reveal, which would have been the case had they labelled Orin's GPU as Ada.
Nvidia explicitly said that sampling for Atlan's expected to happen in 2023. And Nvidia mentions Ampere-Next GPU in Atlan's diagram. So AD10B could definitely be the codename of Atlan's GPU.
 
The fun thing about Pokémon SV getting announced, is that, if anything, it actually kind of points to Dane being imminent. If Dane isn't out by the time it releases, it would be the first Pokémon generation ever not to adopt any sort of new hardware.

I'm specifically talking about new generations, not third versions (which obviously stick to the same hardware as the initial pair) or spin-offs (which get pretty random).

Gen 1 is GB
Gen 2 is GBC enhanced/exclusive
Gen 3 is GBA
Gen 4 is DS
Gen 5 is DSi enhanced
Gen 6 is 3DS
Gen 7 is New 3DS enhanced
Gen 8 is Switch
Following the pattern, that would make Gen 9 Dane enhanced

Damn, your right!

Dane 2022 Gang!
 
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Sorry for asking, been busy with school and work, but…

Are we still expecting the new Switch to be released this year or next year? 👀
If you believe the rumor mill then supposedly it is coming out this year or earlier next. If you don’t then it is coming out sometime in late 2023-sometime 2024. If you do not here any information about tape out by May then assume it is not coming this year.
 
there's no rumor suggesting 2022, just expectations
I mean, expectations based on a Bloomberg report citing sources and me hearing devs are targeting games for Switch 4K/DLSS by late 2022/early 2023 could certainly be considered "rumor" in some circles.

And before anyone asks: no, I haven't heard anything new. Everything remains as it did several months ago. Dev kits are out, software is in active development, and late 2022/early 2023 remains the window.
 
I mean, expectations based on a Bloomberg report citing sources and me hearing devs are targeting games for Switch 4K/DLSS by late 2022/early 2023 could certainly be considered "rumor" in some circles.

And before anyone asks: no, I haven't heard anything new. Everything remains as it did several months ago. Dev kits are out, software is in active development, and late 2022/early 2023 remains the window.
Thoughts on what Pokemaniac brought up in regards to Pokemon Generations and new Nintendo Hardware?
 
Thoughts on what Pokemaniac brought up in regards to Pokemon Generations and new Nintendo Hardware?
To be honest I think it's just a consequence of timing. I don't think they plan to have a new piece of hardware out for each gen, I just think the way the gens are timed (generally 3 years between gens) aligns pretty well with how often Nintendo puts out new and/or upgraded hardware historically.
 
Yeah, it's mostly just a fun observation. This is one of several patterns in Pokémon (like even gens being heavily iterative to a frankly kind of weird degree and odd gens shaking things up a lot) that's probably mostly just a historical accident that arose from Game Freak's various idiosyncrasies. I do expect the game will get Dane enhancements if the hardware launches around the expected time, but trying to use it to predict the hardware launch is probably not a wise move.

This is, however, a pretty good counterargument if anyone starts claiming that new Pokémon means no hardware.
 
I'm specifically talking about new generations, not third versions (which obviously stick to the same hardware as the initial pair) or spin-offs (which get pretty random).

Gen 1 is GB
Gen 2 is GBC enhanced/exclusive
Gen 3 is GBA
Gen 4 is DS
Gen 5 is DSi enhanced
Gen 6 is 3DS
Gen 7 is New 3DS enhanced
Gen 8 is Switch
Following the pattern, that would make Gen 9 Dane enhanced
A very coincidental pattern, indeed.

Anyway, considering that kopite7kimi mentioned that Nvidia's planning to use TSMC's N3 process node for the fabrication of Blackwell GPUs, I wonder which process node Nvidia decides to use for the consumer GPU architecture succeeding Lovelace and/or Hopper for some products. Intel 3? Samsung's 3GAP process node?

Thanks, I didn't realise they were sampling as early as 2023. Most likely Atlan in that case.
Makes me wonder how small the differences between GA10B and AD10B are, assuming the rumours of Lovelace being roughly similar to Ampere, architecturally speaking (here and here), are true.
 
I don't think that's always going to necessarily be true, going by the differences between GM20B and GP10B outside of the process node being used for the fabrication.

Considering Nvidia plans to begin sampling Atlan in 2023, I'm curious to see who Nvidia chooses for the fabrication of Atlan: Intel, Samsung, or TSMC?
Maxwell to Pascal was going from 20nm to 16nm, which had a major decrease in power consumption but not in area. Going from samsung 8nm to TSMC 5nm is a huge leap in both
 
Going from samsung 8nm to TSMC 5nm is a huge leap in both
There's always a possibility that Nvidia uses Samsung's 5LPE process node or Samsung's 5LPP process node for the fabrication of entry-level and/or mid-range Lovelace GPUs, and Atlan, which probably won't have power efficiency and/or density improvements as drastic as TSMC's N5 process node, going from Samsung's 8N process node.

Anyway, kopite7kimi is stating the obvious with respect to AD10B. (I think Atlan's probably using AD10B, considering that Nvidia's planning on sampling Atlan in 2023; and Dane's probably using GA10B.)
 
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There's always a possibility that Nvidia uses Samsung's 5LPE process node or Samsung's 5LPP process node for the fabrication of entry-level and/or mid-range Lovelace GPUs, and Atlan, which probably won't have power efficiency and/or density improvements as drastic as TSMC's N5 process node, going from Samsung's 8N process node.

Anyway, kopite7kimi is stating the obvious with respect to AD10B. (I think Atlan's probably using AD10B, considering that Nvidia's planning on sampling Atlan in 2023; and Dane's probably using GA10B.)

Do we have any solid indication that “this is the chip” or are we sey relying again on kopite7kimi’s predictions/analysis?
 
Please read this new, consolidated staff post before posting.

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