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StarTopic Final Fantasy XVI |ST| Garuda, Bahamut... Come On Crystal Mama

Done. That was awesome!

It took a little bit to get back into the groove, remembering controls and the flow of the combat and all that, but it didn't take long until I was comfortable again. The nice thing about this DLC is that it ramps up slowly, starting with run of the mill trash mobs before throwing increasingly difficult mini bosses at you, culminating in one of the most complex fights in the entire game. The tower was an excellent setting, and the music was incredible.

It felt real good to play FFXVI again. I can't wait for the expansion!
 
This dropped at a great time. I’m finally on the final chapter; should be done with the main story in an hour or two. I do really want to move onto other games I want to play before year’s end but idk. I kinda have the bug to keep going haha.

All I’ll say is this; Ben Starr got robbed for best performance. Between him and Ralph Ineson, FFXVI has my favorite VO in any game ever.
 
This dropped at a great time. I’m finally on the final chapter; should be done with the main story in an hour or two. I do really want to move onto other games I want to play before year’s end but idk. I kinda have the bug to keep going haha.

All I’ll say is this; Ben Starr got robbed for best performance. Between him and Ralph Ineson, FFXVI has my favorite VO in any game ever.
Echoes of the Fallen is only about two hours. you can easily get through it. but watch out, the final boss of the dungeon hits like a truck!
 
Okay, credits have been rolled. I'm not sure what people would consider a spoiler, but I definitely have some things to say about big boss fights and the ending, so I'll just put my wall of text behind a spoiler tag. and it's a lot. I don't expect anyone to read it, except @Red Monster lol.

the basics of it, this was a bewildering yet brilliant experience that feels like what an annoying gaming YouTuber thinks is design by committee, but is actually a passion project that minmaxes its way to excellence.

This might sound like an obvious statement but Final Fantasy XVI absolutely shines for the people that want to invest in it. It feels counterintuitive to make a game for the people that like it (because what comes first: the game for the people who like it or the people liking it?) but ultimately that's my takeaway. It feels like a game made by a solid studio with an uncompromising vision, who know they're not going to get everyone they want to enjoy it. It just is entirely too weird and obtuse in some areas to have universal appeal, and too outside-the-box for traditional Final Fantasy fans (whatever "traditional Final Fantasy" even is now).

No, what really elevates this to a fantastic game are the setting and characters. This is one of the tightest-knit Final Fantasy casts in YEARS. Despite not having a real party-system, the companions in this game are constant from basically the beginning and never go away, creating such strong motivation through such a long journey. It all starts with the prologue and the fake-out of Joshua's death by Clive's (or Ifrit's) hand. From this beginning, this isn't some aloof, rag-tag group stumbling upward towards godhood. Clive is a royal, but not quite chosen at first. After tragedy befalls him and his family at Pheonix Gate, he is knocked so far down, and we spend the entirety of the game building him back up to a place of freedom. The emotional throughline starts with Joshua as a child and goes then through Cid. And oh my god, CID. Brilliant interpretation of the character. The chemistry between Ben Starr and Ralph Ineson is unmatched. Ben should've won the Game Award for best performance and he should've spent that 30 seconds shouting out Ralph.

And while I'm on the topic, this is perhaps the strongest VA in a video game, ever. I was enthralled by everyone's performances, top to bottom.

Cid's death and passing of the torch reveal the true take on the character of "Cid", who is not just a man but a moniker and a symbol of trust. Clive goes from narrow-minded in his path towards inner redemption to someone willing to recognize a second chance when it comes to him. From Cid we get to Jill and Torgal, and nearly complete Clive's cycle of inner redemption. Jill, another noble reduced to a similar fate to Clive, reminds him not of his younger duty, but his younger innocence. And Torgal is the line of hope constantly thrown to Clive. Some say that reuniting with Joshua or Jill is what ultimately saves Clive, but I don't know if it happens without Torgal.

But it ultimately ends with Joshua's re-reveal, and Clive's realization that he didn't kill his brother after all, as he finally learns to forgive himself. How fitting it was that a journey that started out of Clive's regret revolving around his undying loyalty, ends with Joshua's reimbursement of sacrifice. The brotherhood of Clive and Joshua is the emotional center FFXVI. I want to shout out the particular cutscene after the Bahamut fight between Clive, Joshua, and Anabella - such an emotional weight to that sequence I've experienced plenty in the game already but somehow it still manages to surprise me and reach new heights. In a game that takes its sweet time developing its characters and relationships, it becomes a product with a ton of these moments, maybe more than necessary. With this much dialogue, people are likely going to get turned off by just the sheer breadth of conversation and cutscenes, but like I said in the TL;DR - this is a game that insists on fleshing out its world, knowing that it's pushing away a certain audience. Thankfully, the tools are there to keep up; Active Time Lore is something I only ever used twice but it is perhaps the best new idea for an RPG of this size. Valisthea is so dense with lore, packed with history, that IMO, sometimes it runs into problems when it remembers that it's also the home for a mainline Final Fantasy story.

People can rave all they want about the Bahamut fight or the Titan fight (personally found these two, especially Bahamut, quickly escalated past the grandeur of the moment to being an overstimulation of rising stakes), but anytime a climactic event boiled down to two humans, I was far more invested than I was fighting beasts, Eikons, or even Final Fantasy staples (outside of Behemoth, I really loved how that fight was portrayed, like how Meteor was cast on Clive and Joshua). Clive VS Hugo Kupka, before the battle against Titan at Drake's Fang, was maybe my favorite fight of the whole game; the stakes between these two warlords, the very real vengeance these two were motivated by. You really wanted to kill Kupka and Kupka wanted to kill Clive. It's a prime (no pun intended) example of the game using its biggest strength to elevate its combat. The Typhon fight I loved because it was the first introduction to controlling Ifrit, while only dipping a toe into more traditional Final Fantasy fare (in other words, I felt the game show restraint in this area). But in my opinion, no setpiece was better than the first encounter with Barnabas on the ocean floor after Odin split the sea. I'm never a huge fan of programmed losses but it did help illustrate Barnabas/Odin as true forces to be reckoned with. And visually the surroundings were breathtaking. Felt like the appropriate amount of awe.

The isn't to take away from the overall Mothercrystal subplot, the "Reverse FF6", if you will. It's a strong motivation that drives literally every main character at all times. It's Ultima, actually, that I can go either way on. Barnabas as the moniker of "The Last King" could've really worked as a finale, (especially with the use of the menacing size and scale of Odin throughout the fight) but Ultima is the embodiment of the worry I had about the game halfway through. I had started to feel the game drift closer and closer towards generic JRPG God-Killing plot. "God doesn't think humans are worth it, humans want freedom from benevolent God, humans and God talk about the meaning of life and existence, etc". But there is a key difference here. As opposed to FFXVI's other overindulged spectacles, we're seeing Clive, Joshua, and Dion sent to Ultima after an emotional farewell of every character we've been interacting with for the last 50 hours, not knowing whether or not they're going to return, leaving Jill, Torgal, Mid, Gav, Tarja, Otto, etc. behind. When I was worried about losing the feeling of relief in the story after OG Cid dies, I didn't expect that space to be filled with so much heart, comfort, and security in its characters all living out their lives in the New Hideaway. People don't just thank Clive for his good deeds, they acknowledge Cid's ideals are actually the right stewards for them. You get the sense that despite all of this hardship and war, the people know that this is the best place to be for a life of peace. They don't just thank Clive, they're grateful for Cid.

This can almost work as a summary of my thoughts too; this is an example of the game working practically in spite of itself. FFXVI does not have the strongest combat; for Platinum Games, there's not a lot that can be linked together until the very end when you've mastered a lot of arts, but it still insists on being very hack-n-slashy. It does not have the strongest level design; seeing how regions connect upon revisits is nice, but it never feels necessary to explore them afterwards since quests are specifically marked and fast travel can happen with relatively no loading time. It does not have particularly strong RPG mechanics; leveling feels incredibly linear and guided, 97% of side quests boil down to "go to place, kill the horde, talk to person" with scarce deviations, hunts are a cool idea but they're not challenging enough, not rewarding enough, not varied enough to be excited to seek them out after a while. There are rough edges literally EVERYWHERE. But Final Fantasy XVI knows that none of that shit matters without proper stakes. And you may use the same Magic Burst combo for 49 chapters, but you're going to bask in it when you finally kill Hugo Kupka and avenge the people of Cid's original Hideaway. Maybe you can trade 5 hours and 2 chapters for less repetitive enemies. But really, after all this, I wouldn't make that trade. Those stakes, what really drives Clive's every swing of his sword, are NEVER taken out of focus. Even when Ultima is rambling monotone about humanity's place, even when Joshua realizes Ultima's weakness before he dies, the genuine and earned feeling of brotherhood and community is still present, helping all of the tiring standard fare go down smoother. It's the best chaser to a bitter whisky; the revelation about Ultima's godhood isn't as important as it is being said BY a dying Joshua catching his breath in Clive's arms, both racing to make the sacrifice to the other at this moment, not wanting to see the other go, but knowing that an end is coming.

And even in its ending credits we never lose focus. In a gutsy move, Clive, Joshua, and Dion all do not return. When the rest of the garrison learns of this, we don't pull away from their grief. Gav cries knowing that he's lost a comrade; not only one Cid, but two. Jill cries having lost the love of her life. Torgal howls at the moon having officially lost his master he searched years for (I shed tears for this one specifically). We get the post-credits scene in the far future about how this is all encapsulated in a storybook in a world without Magick, but for the immediate ending, the game continues its focus on what mattered; the gang. And not just the new world they wanted to create, but the utopia they already had with each other.

And when we reach that end, we rest as Clive does. Knowing that we did all we could, hoping for our seeds of community, tucked away in the hidden pockets of Valisthea, to sprout and green into a realm reborn.

What a game. I'm honestly not sure I'll play it again for a looong time but I really loved it.
 
Last edited:
Okay, credits have been rolled. I'm not sure what people would consider a spoiler, but I definitely have some things to say about big boss fights and the ending, so I'll just put my wall of text behind a spoiler tag. and it's a lot. I don't expect anyone to read it, except @Red Monster lol.

the basics of it, this was a bewildering yet brilliant experience that feels like what an annoying gaming YouTuber thinks is design by committee, but is actually a passion project that minmaxes its way to excellence.

This might sound like an obvious statement but Final Fantasy XVI absolutely shines for the people that want to invest in it. It feels counterintuitive to make a game for the people that like it (because what comes first: the game for the people who like it or the people liking it?) but ultimately that's my takeaway. It feels like a game made by a solid studio with an uncompromising vision, who know they're not going to get everyone they want to enjoy it. It just is entirely too weird and obtuse in some areas to have universal appeal, and too outside-the-box for traditional Final Fantasy fans (whatever "traditional Final Fantasy" even is now).

No, what really elevates this to a fantastic game are the setting and characters. This is one of the tightest-knit Final Fantasy casts in YEARS. Despite not having a real party-system, the companions in this game are constant from basically the beginning and never go away, creating such strong motivation through such a long journey. It all starts with the prologue and the fake-out of Joshua's death by Clive's (or Ifrit's) hand. From this beginning, this isn't some aloof, rag-tag group stumbling upward towards godhood. Clive is a royal, but not quite chosen at first. After tragedy befalls him and his family at Pheonix Gate, he is knocked so far down, and we spend the entirety of the game building him back up to a place of freedom. The emotional throughline starts with Joshua as a child and goes then through Cid. And oh my god, CID. Brilliant interpretation of the character. The chemistry between Ben Starr and Ralph Ineson is unmatched. Ben should've won the Game Award for best performance and he should've spent that 30 seconds shouting out Ralph.

And while I'm on the topic, this is perhaps the strongest VA in a video game, ever. I was enthralled by everyone's performances, top to bottom.

Cid's death and passing of the torch reveal the true take on the character of "Cid", who is not just a man but a moniker and a symbol of trust. Clive goes from narrow-minded in his path towards inner redemption to someone willing to recognize a second chance when it comes to him. From Cid we get to Jill and Torgal, and nearly complete Clive's cycle of inner redemption. Jill, another noble reduced to a similar fate to Clive, reminds him not of his younger duty, but his younger innocence. And Torgal is the line of hope constantly thrown to Clive. Some say that reuniting with Joshua or Jill is what ultimately saves Clive, but I don't know if it happens without Torgal.

But it ultimately ends with Joshua's re-reveal, and Clive's realization that he didn't kill his brother after all, as he finally learns to forgive himself. How fitting it was that a journey that started out of Clive's regret revolving around his undying loyalty, ends with Joshua's reimbursement of sacrifice. The brotherhood of Clive and Joshua is the emotional center FFXVI. I want to shout out the particular cutscene after the Bahamut fight between Clive, Joshua, and Anabella - such an emotional weight to that sequence I've experienced plenty in the game already but somehow it still manages to surprise me and reach new heights. In a game that takes its sweet time developing its characters and relationships, it becomes a product with a ton of these moments, maybe more than necessary. With this much dialogue, people are likely going to get turned off by just the sheer breadth of conversation and cutscenes, but like I said in the TL;DR - this is a game that insists on fleshing out its world, knowing that it's pushing away a certain audience. Thankfully, the tools are there to keep up; Active Time Lore is something I only ever used twice but it is perhaps the best new idea for an RPG of this size. Valisthea is so dense with lore, packed with history, that IMO, sometimes it runs into problems when it remembers that it's also the home for a mainline Final Fantasy story.

People can rave all they want about the Bahamut fight or the Titan fight (personally found these two, especially Bahamut, quickly escalated past the grandeur of the moment to being an overstimulation of rising stakes), but anytime a climactic event boiled down to two humans, I was far more invested than I was fighting beasts, Eikons, or even Final Fantasy staples (outside of Behemoth, I really loved how that fight was portrayed, like how Meteor was cast on Clive and Joshua). Clive VS Hugo Kupka, before the battle against Titan at Drake's Fang, was maybe my favorite fight of the whole game; the stakes between these two warlords, the very real vengeance these two were motivated by. You really wanted to kill Kupka and Kupka wanted to kill Clive. It's a prime (no pun intended) example of the game using its biggest strength to elevate its combat. The Typhon fight I loved because it was the first introduction to controlling Ifrit, while only dipping a toe into more traditional Final Fantasy fare (in other words, I felt the game show restraint in this area). But in my opinion, no setpiece was better than the first encounter with Barnabas on the ocean floor after Odin split the sea. I'm never a huge fan of programmed losses but it did help illustrate Barnabas/Odin as true forces to be reckoned with. And visually the surroundings were breathtaking. Felt like the appropriate amount of awe.

The isn't to take away from the overall Mothercrystal subplot, the "Reverse FF6", if you will. It's a strong motivation that drives literally every main character at all times. It's Ultima, actually, that I can go either way on. Barnabas as the moniker of "The Last King" could've really worked as a finale, (especially with the use of the menacing size and scale of Odin throughout the fight) but Ultima is the embodiment of the worry I had about the game halfway through. I had started to feel the game drift closer and closer towards generic JRPG God-Killing plot. "God doesn't think humans are worth it, humans want freedom from benevolent God, humans and God talk about the meaning of life and existence, etc". But there is a key difference here. As opposed to FFXVI's other overindulged spectacles, we're seeing Clive, Joshua, and Dion sent to Ultima after an emotional farewell of every character we've been interacting with for the last 50 hours, not knowing whether or not they're going to return, leaving Jill, Torgal, Mid, Gav, Tarja, Otto, etc. behind. When I was worried about losing the feeling of relief in the story after OG Cid dies, I didn't expect that space to be filled with so much heart, comfort, and security in its characters all living out their lives in the New Hideaway.

This can almost work as a summary of my thoughts too; this is an example of the game working practically in spite of itself. FFXVI does not have the strongest combat; for Platinum Games, there's not a lot that can be linked together until the very end when you've mastered a lot of arts, but it still insists on being very hack-n-slashy. It does not have the strongest level design; seeing how regions connect upon revisits is nice, but it never feels necessary to explore them afterwards since quests are specifically marked and fast travel can happen with relatively no loading time. It does not have particularly strong RPG mechanics; leveling feels incredibly linear and guided, 97% of side quests boil down to "go to place, kill the horde, talk to person" with scarce deviations, hunts are a cool idea but they're not challenging enough, not rewarding enough, not varied enough to be excited to seek them out after a while. There are rough edges literally EVERYWHERE. But Final Fantasy XVI knows that none of that shit matters without proper stakes. And you may use the same Magic Burst combo for 49 chapters, but you're going to bask in it when you finally kill Hugo Kupka and avenge the people of Cid's original Hideaway. Maybe you can trade 5 hours and 2 chapters for less repetitive enemies. But really, after all this, I wouldn't make that trade. Those stakes, what really drives Clive's every swing of his sword, are NEVER taken out of focus. Even when Ultima is rambling monotone about humanity's place, even when Joshua realizes Ultima's weakness before he dies, the genuine and earned feeling of brotherhood and community is still present, helping all of the tiring standard fare go down smoother. It's the best chaser to a bitter whisky; the revelation about Ultima's godhood isn't as important as it is being said BY a dying Joshua catching his breath in Clive's arms, both racing to make the sacrifice to the other at this moment, not wanting to see the other go, but knowing that an end is coming.

And when we reach that end, we rest as Clive does. Knowing that we did all we could, hoping for our seeds of community, tucked away in the hidden pockets of Valisthea, to sprout and green into a realm reborn.

What a game. I'm honestly not sure I'll play it again for a looong time but I really loved it.
i absolutely loved reading this. thank you!!
 
Okay, credits have been rolled. I'm not sure what people would consider a spoiler, but I definitely have some things to say about big boss fights and the ending, so I'll just put my wall of text behind a spoiler tag. and it's a lot. I don't expect anyone to read it, except @Red Monster lol.

the basics of it, this was a bewildering yet brilliant experience that feels like what an annoying gaming YouTuber thinks is design by committee, but is actually a passion project that minmaxes its way to excellence.

This might sound like an obvious statement but Final Fantasy XVI absolutely shines for the people that want to invest in it. It feels counterintuitive to make a game for the people that like it (because what comes first: the game for the people who like it or the people liking it?) but ultimately that's my takeaway. It feels like a game made by a solid studio with an uncompromising vision, who know they're not going to get everyone they want to enjoy it. It just is entirely too weird and obtuse in some areas to have universal appeal, and too outside-the-box for traditional Final Fantasy fans (whatever "traditional Final Fantasy" even is now).

No, what really elevates this to a fantastic game are the setting and characters. This is one of the tightest-knit Final Fantasy casts in YEARS. Despite not having a real party-system, the companions in this game are constant from basically the beginning and never go away, creating such strong motivation through such a long journey. It all starts with the prologue and the fake-out of Joshua's death by Clive's (or Ifrit's) hand. From this beginning, this isn't some aloof, rag-tag group stumbling upward towards godhood. Clive is a royal, but not quite chosen at first. After tragedy befalls him and his family at Pheonix Gate, he is knocked so far down, and we spend the entirety of the game building him back up to a place of freedom. The emotional throughline starts with Joshua as a child and goes then through Cid. And oh my god, CID. Brilliant interpretation of the character. The chemistry between Ben Starr and Ralph Ineson is unmatched. Ben should've won the Game Award for best performance and he should've spent that 30 seconds shouting out Ralph.

And while I'm on the topic, this is perhaps the strongest VA in a video game, ever. I was enthralled by everyone's performances, top to bottom.

Cid's death and passing of the torch reveal the true take on the character of "Cid", who is not just a man but a moniker and a symbol of trust. Clive goes from narrow-minded in his path towards inner redemption to someone willing to recognize a second chance when it comes to him. From Cid we get to Jill and Torgal, and nearly complete Clive's cycle of inner redemption. Jill, another noble reduced to a similar fate to Clive, reminds him not of his younger duty, but his younger innocence. And Torgal is the line of hope constantly thrown to Clive. Some say that reuniting with Joshua or Jill is what ultimately saves Clive, but I don't know if it happens without Torgal.

But it ultimately ends with Joshua's re-reveal, and Clive's realization that he didn't kill his brother after all, as he finally learns to forgive himself. How fitting it was that a journey that started out of Clive's regret revolving around his undying loyalty, ends with Joshua's reimbursement of sacrifice. The brotherhood of Clive and Joshua is the emotional center FFXVI. I want to shout out the particular cutscene after the Bahamut fight between Clive, Joshua, and Anabella - such an emotional weight to that sequence I've experienced plenty in the game already but somehow it still manages to surprise me and reach new heights. In a game that takes its sweet time developing its characters and relationships, it becomes a product with a ton of these moments, maybe more than necessary. With this much dialogue, people are likely going to get turned off by just the sheer breadth of conversation and cutscenes, but like I said in the TL;DR - this is a game that insists on fleshing out its world, knowing that it's pushing away a certain audience. Thankfully, the tools are there to keep up; Active Time Lore is something I only ever used twice but it is perhaps the best new idea for an RPG of this size. Valisthea is so dense with lore, packed with history, that IMO, sometimes it runs into problems when it remembers that it's also the home for a mainline Final Fantasy story.

People can rave all they want about the Bahamut fight or the Titan fight (personally found these two, especially Bahamut, quickly escalated past the grandeur of the moment to being an overstimulation of rising stakes), but anytime a climactic event boiled down to two humans, I was far more invested than I was fighting beasts, Eikons, or even Final Fantasy staples (outside of Behemoth, I really loved how that fight was portrayed, like how Meteor was cast on Clive and Joshua). Clive VS Hugo Kupka, before the battle against Titan at Drake's Fang, was maybe my favorite fight of the whole game; the stakes between these two warlords, the very real vengeance these two were motivated by. You really wanted to kill Kupka and Kupka wanted to kill Clive. It's a prime (no pun intended) example of the game using its biggest strength to elevate its combat. The Typhon fight I loved because it was the first introduction to controlling Ifrit, while only dipping a toe into more traditional Final Fantasy fare (in other words, I felt the game show restraint in this area). But in my opinion, no setpiece was better than the first encounter with Barnabas on the ocean floor after Odin split the sea. I'm never a huge fan of programmed losses but it did help illustrate Barnabas/Odin as true forces to be reckoned with. And visually the surroundings were breathtaking. Felt like the appropriate amount of awe.

The isn't to take away from the overall Mothercrystal subplot, the "Reverse FF6", if you will. It's a strong motivation that drives literally every main character at all times. It's Ultima, actually, that I can go either way on. Barnabas as the moniker of "The Last King" could've really worked as a finale, (especially with the use of the menacing size and scale of Odin throughout the fight) but Ultima is the embodiment of the worry I had about the game halfway through. I had started to feel the game drift closer and closer towards generic JRPG God-Killing plot. "God doesn't think humans are worth it, humans want freedom from benevolent God, humans and God talk about the meaning of life and existence, etc". But there is a key difference here. As opposed to FFXVI's other overindulged spectacles, we're seeing Clive, Joshua, and Dion sent to Ultima after an emotional farewell of every character we've been interacting with for the last 50 hours, not knowing whether or not they're going to return, leaving Jill, Torgal, Mid, Gav, Tarja, Otto, etc. behind. When I was worried about losing the feeling of relief in the story after OG Cid dies, I didn't expect that space to be filled with so much heart, comfort, and security in its characters all living out their lives in the New Hideaway.

This can almost work as a summary of my thoughts too; this is an example of the game working practically in spite of itself. FFXVI does not have the strongest combat; for Platinum Games, there's not a lot that can be linked together until the very end when you've mastered a lot of arts, but it still insists on being very hack-n-slashy. It does not have the strongest level design; seeing how regions connect upon revisits is nice, but it never feels necessary to explore them afterwards since quests are specifically marked and fast travel can happen with relatively no loading time. It does not have particularly strong RPG mechanics; leveling feels incredibly linear and guided, 97% of side quests boil down to "go to place, kill the horde, talk to person" with scarce deviations, hunts are a cool idea but they're not challenging enough, not rewarding enough, not varied enough to be excited to seek them out after a while. There are rough edges literally EVERYWHERE. But Final Fantasy XVI knows that none of that shit matters without proper stakes. And you may use the same Magic Burst combo for 49 chapters, but you're going to bask in it when you finally kill Hugo Kupka and avenge the people of Cid's original Hideaway. Maybe you can trade 5 hours and 2 chapters for less repetitive enemies. But really, after all this, I wouldn't make that trade. Those stakes, what really drives Clive's every swing of his sword, are NEVER taken out of focus. Even when Ultima is rambling monotone about humanity's place, even when Joshua realizes Ultima's weakness before he dies, the genuine and earned feeling of brotherhood and community is still present, helping all of the tiring standard fare go down smoother. It's the best chaser to a bitter whisky; the revelation about Ultima's godhood isn't as important as it is being said BY a dying Joshua catching his breath in Clive's arms, both racing to make the sacrifice to the other at this moment, not wanting to see the other go, but knowing that an end is coming.

And when we reach that end, we rest as Clive does. Knowing that we did all we could, hoping for our seeds of community, tucked away in the hidden pockets of Valisthea, to sprout and green into a realm reborn.

What a game. I'm honestly not sure I'll play it again for a looong time but I really loved it.
Great write up.
 
Playing it on Final Fantasy difficulty and I gotta say that it makes me change my initial score from 7-7,5 to 8-8,5 just because how much more fun it plays with all the abilities unlocked, definitely my GOTY this year (alongside with Metroid Prime Remastered).
 
Okay, credits have been rolled. I'm not sure what people would consider a spoiler, but I definitely have some things to say about big boss fights and the ending, so I'll just put my wall of text behind a spoiler tag. and it's a lot. I don't expect anyone to read it, except @Red Monster lol.

the basics of it, this was a bewildering yet brilliant experience that feels like what an annoying gaming YouTuber thinks is design by committee, but is actually a passion project that minmaxes its way to excellence.

This might sound like an obvious statement but Final Fantasy XVI absolutely shines for the people that want to invest in it. It feels counterintuitive to make a game for the people that like it (because what comes first: the game for the people who like it or the people liking it?) but ultimately that's my takeaway. It feels like a game made by a solid studio with an uncompromising vision, who know they're not going to get everyone they want to enjoy it. It just is entirely too weird and obtuse in some areas to have universal appeal, and too outside-the-box for traditional Final Fantasy fans (whatever "traditional Final Fantasy" even is now).

No, what really elevates this to a fantastic game are the setting and characters. This is one of the tightest-knit Final Fantasy casts in YEARS. Despite not having a real party-system, the companions in this game are constant from basically the beginning and never go away, creating such strong motivation through such a long journey. It all starts with the prologue and the fake-out of Joshua's death by Clive's (or Ifrit's) hand. From this beginning, this isn't some aloof, rag-tag group stumbling upward towards godhood. Clive is a royal, but not quite chosen at first. After tragedy befalls him and his family at Pheonix Gate, he is knocked so far down, and we spend the entirety of the game building him back up to a place of freedom. The emotional throughline starts with Joshua as a child and goes then through Cid. And oh my god, CID. Brilliant interpretation of the character. The chemistry between Ben Starr and Ralph Ineson is unmatched. Ben should've won the Game Award for best performance and he should've spent that 30 seconds shouting out Ralph.

And while I'm on the topic, this is perhaps the strongest VA in a video game, ever. I was enthralled by everyone's performances, top to bottom.

Cid's death and passing of the torch reveal the true take on the character of "Cid", who is not just a man but a moniker and a symbol of trust. Clive goes from narrow-minded in his path towards inner redemption to someone willing to recognize a second chance when it comes to him. From Cid we get to Jill and Torgal, and nearly complete Clive's cycle of inner redemption. Jill, another noble reduced to a similar fate to Clive, reminds him not of his younger duty, but his younger innocence. And Torgal is the line of hope constantly thrown to Clive. Some say that reuniting with Joshua or Jill is what ultimately saves Clive, but I don't know if it happens without Torgal.

But it ultimately ends with Joshua's re-reveal, and Clive's realization that he didn't kill his brother after all, as he finally learns to forgive himself. How fitting it was that a journey that started out of Clive's regret revolving around his undying loyalty, ends with Joshua's reimbursement of sacrifice. The brotherhood of Clive and Joshua is the emotional center FFXVI. I want to shout out the particular cutscene after the Bahamut fight between Clive, Joshua, and Anabella - such an emotional weight to that sequence I've experienced plenty in the game already but somehow it still manages to surprise me and reach new heights. In a game that takes its sweet time developing its characters and relationships, it becomes a product with a ton of these moments, maybe more than necessary. With this much dialogue, people are likely going to get turned off by just the sheer breadth of conversation and cutscenes, but like I said in the TL;DR - this is a game that insists on fleshing out its world, knowing that it's pushing away a certain audience. Thankfully, the tools are there to keep up; Active Time Lore is something I only ever used twice but it is perhaps the best new idea for an RPG of this size. Valisthea is so dense with lore, packed with history, that IMO, sometimes it runs into problems when it remembers that it's also the home for a mainline Final Fantasy story.

People can rave all they want about the Bahamut fight or the Titan fight (personally found these two, especially Bahamut, quickly escalated past the grandeur of the moment to being an overstimulation of rising stakes), but anytime a climactic event boiled down to two humans, I was far more invested than I was fighting beasts, Eikons, or even Final Fantasy staples (outside of Behemoth, I really loved how that fight was portrayed, like how Meteor was cast on Clive and Joshua). Clive VS Hugo Kupka, before the battle against Titan at Drake's Fang, was maybe my favorite fight of the whole game; the stakes between these two warlords, the very real vengeance these two were motivated by. You really wanted to kill Kupka and Kupka wanted to kill Clive. It's a prime (no pun intended) example of the game using its biggest strength to elevate its combat. The Typhon fight I loved because it was the first introduction to controlling Ifrit, while only dipping a toe into more traditional Final Fantasy fare (in other words, I felt the game show restraint in this area). But in my opinion, no setpiece was better than the first encounter with Barnabas on the ocean floor after Odin split the sea. I'm never a huge fan of programmed losses but it did help illustrate Barnabas/Odin as true forces to be reckoned with. And visually the surroundings were breathtaking. Felt like the appropriate amount of awe.

The isn't to take away from the overall Mothercrystal subplot, the "Reverse FF6", if you will. It's a strong motivation that drives literally every main character at all times. It's Ultima, actually, that I can go either way on. Barnabas as the moniker of "The Last King" could've really worked as a finale, (especially with the use of the menacing size and scale of Odin throughout the fight) but Ultima is the embodiment of the worry I had about the game halfway through. I had started to feel the game drift closer and closer towards generic JRPG God-Killing plot. "God doesn't think humans are worth it, humans want freedom from benevolent God, humans and God talk about the meaning of life and existence, etc". But there is a key difference here. As opposed to FFXVI's other overindulged spectacles, we're seeing Clive, Joshua, and Dion sent to Ultima after an emotional farewell of every character we've been interacting with for the last 50 hours, not knowing whether or not they're going to return, leaving Jill, Torgal, Mid, Gav, Tarja, Otto, etc. behind. When I was worried about losing the feeling of relief in the story after OG Cid dies, I didn't expect that space to be filled with so much heart, comfort, and security in its characters all living out their lives in the New Hideaway. People don't just thank Clive for his good deeds, they acknowledge Cid's ideals are actually the right stewards for them. You get the sense that despite all of this hardship and war, the people know that this is the best place to be for a life of peace.

This can almost work as a summary of my thoughts too; this is an example of the game working practically in spite of itself. FFXVI does not have the strongest combat; for Platinum Games, there's not a lot that can be linked together until the very end when you've mastered a lot of arts, but it still insists on being very hack-n-slashy. It does not have the strongest level design; seeing how regions connect upon revisits is nice, but it never feels necessary to explore them afterwards since quests are specifically marked and fast travel can happen with relatively no loading time. It does not have particularly strong RPG mechanics; leveling feels incredibly linear and guided, 97% of side quests boil down to "go to place, kill the horde, talk to person" with scarce deviations, hunts are a cool idea but they're not challenging enough, not rewarding enough, not varied enough to be excited to seek them out after a while. There are rough edges literally EVERYWHERE. But Final Fantasy XVI knows that none of that shit matters without proper stakes. And you may use the same Magic Burst combo for 49 chapters, but you're going to bask in it when you finally kill Hugo Kupka and avenge the people of Cid's original Hideaway. Maybe you can trade 5 hours and 2 chapters for less repetitive enemies. But really, after all this, I wouldn't make that trade. Those stakes, what really drives Clive's every swing of his sword, are NEVER taken out of focus. Even when Ultima is rambling monotone about humanity's place, even when Joshua realizes Ultima's weakness before he dies, the genuine and earned feeling of brotherhood and community is still present, helping all of the tiring standard fare go down smoother. It's the best chaser to a bitter whisky; the revelation about Ultima's godhood isn't as important as it is being said BY a dying Joshua catching his breath in Clive's arms, both racing to make the sacrifice to the other at this moment, not wanting to see the other go, but knowing that an end is coming.

And even in its ending credits we never lose focus. In a gutsy move, Clive, Joshua, and Dion all do not return. When the rest of the garrison learns of this, we don't pull away from their grief. Gav cries knowing that he's lost a comrade. Jill cries having lost the love of her life. Torgal howls at the moon having officially lost his master he searched years for (I shed tears for this one specifically). We get the post-credits scene in the far future about how this is all encapsulated in a storybook in a world without Magick, but for the immediate ending, the game continues its focus on what mattered; the gang. And not just the new world they wanted to create, but the utopia they already had with each other.

And when we reach that end, we rest as Clive does. Knowing that we did all we could, hoping for our seeds of community, tucked away in the hidden pockets of Valisthea, to sprout and green into a realm reborn.

What a game. I'm honestly not sure I'll play it again for a looong time but I really loved it.
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it! Despite the issues we can all acknowledge, FFXVI was my favorite new game released this year. You can tell the team truly put a TON of work and love into it.
 
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it! Despite the issues we can all acknowledge, FFXVI was my favorite new game released this year. You can tell the team truly put a TON of work and love into it.
thanks! yeah this game really crawled it's way high up my list of favorites this year. every time i thought it was plateauing it wound up really surprising me.
 


They made a music video for My Star, I may have cried a little watching it lmao



(The video is full of spoilers)
 
So I've started fencing hard on this, as I'm seemingly getting a PS5 in the not so distant future.

Thing is, since the release of the game last summer, I've sort of been on and off watching a 17 hour cutscene recap video.

I just came to (mid-game spoiler)

Jill rage killing the slave master.

and I sort of paused and was like "hm, I should maybe be getting this because I'm actually getting invested in the story and world and keen on seeing it all through to the end". (They sell it for €50 over here)

Main thing that sort of hinders my hand is that the combat looks dull as bricks. I've heard that it's pretty mashy, which is sort of a big no from me.
 
Main thing that sort of hinders my hand is that the combat looks dull as bricks. I've heard that it's pretty mashy, which is sort of a big no from me.
I'd say it's a step above XV's combat, but nowhere near as exciting or strategic as VII Remake's. The real problem is that lots of the enemies are damage sponges, so whatever combo you use might be flashy and exciting but probably won't do a TON in the way of shaving off time (or mashing).
 
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Main thing that sort of hinders my hand is that the combat looks dull as bricks. I've heard that it's pretty mashy, which is sort of a big no from me.

It's not bad, but i didn't feel it was engaging or deep enough to carry a 40+ hour long game imo.

Once you figure out your optimal rotation you are pretty much done. One weapon, one basic combo, break the enemy, big damage, repeat and that's it. Every mob that isn't a miniboss melts instantly so your skill loadout doesn't even matter most of the time. You can maybe try and get fancy with enemy steps and Thorgal, but it's not enough and the game doesn't really care about that stuff either.
 
So I've started fencing hard on this, as I'm seemingly getting a PS5 in the not so distant future.

Thing is, since the release of the game last summer, I've sort of been on and off watching a 17 hour cutscene recap video.

I just came to (mid-game spoiler)

Jill rage killing the slave master.

and I sort of paused and was like "hm, I should maybe be getting this because I'm actually getting invested in the story and world and keen on seeing it all through to the end". (They sell it for €50 over here)

Main thing that sort of hinders my hand is that the combat looks dull as bricks. I've heard that it's pretty mashy, which is sort of a big no from me.
I found the combat to be highly engaging. I didn’t get tired of it at all, even after 60 hours. When you start out and only have one Eikon to work with, it does feel limited. But as you go through the game and acquire more powers, the possibilities open up and fights become pure flashy fun.

And yeah for sure, the story is one of the game’s biggest strengths. People complain that it’s simply a Game of Thrones knockoff, but I think that’s reductive. It’s more than that. And the character writing, along with the outstanding voice work, is just the best.

If you do end up getting the game (and you should!), I hope you enjoy it!
 
I'm slowly working my way through FF16, emphasis on the "slowly", given the glacial pacing and mountains of filler. Coming off of completing GoW Ragnarok last month, which I felt was bloated enough, this feels remarkably worse in just about every way -- combat, cinematography/direction, traversal/areas, equipment/upgrades, accessibility -- save for voice acting (even), overarching story (better so far), and, of course, the spectacle of the boss battles. At least the plot finally seems to be picking up at the start of the second half (spoiler-free: having unlocked the State of the Realms feature).

I feel like I'm only playing for the big story/Eikon sequences but Square's spacing then out with padding as if I'm paying by the hour or something. Just let me mainline the good stuff, please!
 
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After rolling the credits last night, the most positive take I've got is that I didn't hate everything about Final Fantasy XVI, but it was a unfulfilling slog even so. The story, characters, and boss battles all took big nosedives post-Bahamut and the finale fell flat for me. I'd been mentally benchmarking FF16 against FF7 Remake and GoW Ragnarok, and it comes up markedly short -- in terms of storytelling, which is what I was holding out for, it's a lot closer to FE Engage (which I couldn't bring myself to finish).

All that said, the introductory stuff was pretty solid, as were most of the linear pre-boss sequences. Find the Flame is a banger. Cidolfus Telamon is a highlight not only of this game, but of the year in gaming.
 
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I started playing the Rising Tide tonight. I think I only played for about two-ish hours ultimately and I already have 3/5 story trophies which makes this seem fairly short. Sort of like the last DLC, I have to get my bearings on combat again especially as I just played FF7 Rebirth, Granblue Relink, and Dragon’s Dogma II all back to back. So far the combat has been breezy so I’m glad I’m getting eased back in here. Leviathan at least has a new moveset of course which I just unlocked and did the tutorial fight for. I wasn’t expecting Active Reload from Gears of War to make an appearance here haha. I don’t think I’ll be adding Leviathan to my active move pool, but I’m glad it’s unique. I’ll be playing more tomorrow and I imagine I’ll be fighting Leviathan sooner than later. One last thing, the new area looks quite nice! Loving all the plants and blue skies here. Very refreshing after the dreary back third of the game.
 


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