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Discussion Fami favorite 3d Zelda game (post TOTK edition)

What's your favorite 3D Zelda?

  • Ocarina of Time

  • Majora's Mask

  • Wind Waker

  • Twilight Princess

  • Skyward Sword

  • Breath of the Wild

  • Tears of the Kingdom


Results are only viewable after voting.
No, you're right actually, what was I thinking. BOTW continues to sell incredible numbers every year to having become one of the top selling games ever including outdoing other titans like 3d mario and Pokémon for the first time in series history, and was described as the greatest game of alltime in a widereaching poll of games journalists and industry vets as late as last year because it's still in a overrated honeymoon period.


And like you just said above, BOTW despite all that acclaim surely had nothing to do with the success of the switch, because as we all know, people were jumping in for the real titan of the console launch, snipperclips.

I'm sure you've also got groundbreaking theories we should all need to hear on why skyward sword hd is selling so terribly compared to botw and totk, despite any competently made Zelda being able to get 10m ez no diff.
1. I didn't say people were still in their honeymoon period with BOTW. I said journalists critically overrated 3D Zelda. Explain how else Skyward Sword has a 93 Metacritic, with tons of 10/10s from major outlets, despite the game being deeply flawed with widespread criticism from fans? Journalists play a new 3D Zelda, they get infatuated with how wismical and grand the games are, and they get inflated scores without any in-depth dives into the games themselves. Happens every time, even for good Zelda games like BOTW. And installments like TOTK especially make very strong first impressions, only once the veneer is off do the issues crop up.

It's more a testament to how terrible the rest of the AAA games industry is that BOTW (good, but flawed) gets automatic 10/10s due to it being original compared to every other derivative open world title. If you read the reviews that's always the main sentiment underlying the praise.

2. BOTW did not drive the Switch's sales success at launch. New systems always sell out during their launch windows as the enthusiast market eats it up. Launch titles only drive sales momentum in the following months after the launch period. Even the Wii U was a sales success for its first few months.

BOTW's critical acclaim was a contributing factor to the success of the Switch, but it was a small one. Being the successor to Nintendo's handheld systems (always massively more successful than their home consoles) and having a string of critically acclaimed tentpole titles in its first year, no droughts, are being the real reasons behind the Switch's success. Not a single acclaimed game.

3. It's a remaster of the least popular 3D game in the series. Remasters sell less than new installments. This isn't even a question.

I outright said BOTW's critical success propelled sales further, you're not reading my posts. My original point was any competently made Zelda game at launch would have sold 10m. This is how brand power works. It's why terrible Pokemon sequels have continued to sell 20+ million; the brand is so strong and the formula is compelling, even if everything else surrounding it is shit. Quality and acclaim is only additive.
 
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IMO Zelda games didn't have the identity "fans of the old" want it to go back to untill Anouma started directing tiles. I also have always seen them as (semi) open world and as soon as Zelda 3 Miyamoto wanted to add emergent scenarios such as fire spreading that were halted by technical limitations. In a way the new games are a really nice fusion between the Miyamoto/Tezuka games, you have your quirky NPCs and story elements, puzzle rooms but also the focus on combat and exploration you had it Zelda 1. I don't think all future titles will be like BOTW developers thoughts mirror that of players, if we think it's time for something different they will do to, Mario Bros. Wonder is testament to that.


I don't have much criticisms for the 3D games except Majora's Mask. It's a great game but It's appeal hinges so much on the plot that it doesn't lend itself well to replays , similarly to how with Earthbound once you know all the twists (and streamed the OST hundreds of times) it will be kind of boring to play. Mechanically it also feels more patchy than OOT. Something that always crosses my mind is how MM is the closet game we have got to EarthBound 64.
 
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Plenty of regulars in the TotK OT have given their nuanced reviews of the game. No, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Some of them even outright dislike the game. Some think BotW was better.

This might surprise you, but even as someone who rates TotK as my favorite 3D Zelda, I still have criticisms against it. I think the gameplay loop of the Depths fits awkwardly with the other two maps. I think the shrines concept could have been further refined, the physics puzzles and freebies lessened. Abilities should be able to be tethered to the radial wheel. The list goes on!

And yet! It is still one of my favorite games of all time. Funny how that works, huh?

Well said.

I think criticizing aspects one doesn't like actually a sign of caring! It is my favorite game yet, but since no game is perfect, I could name a number of issues.

Just a few of 'em...

The AI of the Sages ain't great, to put it mildly, and could be of annoyance at times.
Activating their abilities with the A-button also led to frustration at times.
There's no auto-sort of items in the menu.
There's no option to select or favorite entire armor sets.
There's no crosshair having boarded Mineru's Construct (very annoying if one uses certain devices at hand).
A marker of opened chests would've been incredibily handy, but alas.
Story-wise I think Rauru was underutilized.

Then when I actually play it, most is forgiven because..."look at this sunset!", "wow, this is an interesting location!", or "I finally overcame this or defeated that". :p
 
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Please refrain from insulting others over video game preferences. -xghost777, mariodk18, Josh5890
The point is the core game itself has to be good/appealing in order to sell that many copies. The original commenter implied that the only reason TotK sold this well is because of viral marketing, which is plainly not the case.


I remember arguing with you about this before. BotW and TotK have level design with different goals than previous 3D Zeldas. You merely prefer one over the other.


Conversely, your criticisms of TotK’s “lacking” level design also seem like justifications for why you don’t like it.
No offense but I’d rather reply by quoting the whole post instead of quoting separate sentences since I’m on mobile. This doesn’t help when you basically quoted each sentence out of context, I already adressed everything you mentioned in my post

I don’t think the original commenter implied that the sole reason of TOTK’s sales was memes to devalue the game itself. It’s simply facts that being viral on social media is the most potent catalyst there is, you can argue whether it’s deserved or not but at the end of the day it’s the most powerful marketing tool

Second quote isn’t even about BOTW or TOTK, read again. TOTK actually has good dungeons but there’s only four of them, each locked behind main quest chains. I’d appreciate the game more if it, you know, had you discover them and have more than four

You see, this topic always goes in circles because it never actually ends with “agree to disagree, that’s your opinion”. The problem is that it always ends up to be about how the last two games sold 30 million copies to then justify that “old style is done, deal with it”. This is just incredibly reductive, especially considering when they never made a game like Majora’s Mask since the N64. WW and TP were on the Gamecube, SS was on two Gamecubes taped together. People been painting all the 3D Zeldas with the same brush but it was simply never the case, how are you going to say that “it’s too restrictive and linear” when the last game was simply a Wii game that didn’t bite more that it could chew, each of these games are very different and could be built upon in many ways. Idk what else to say
It's not being dense, it was a rhetorical question. And the point was the absolute irony of your comment going on and on about how the games are only popular for x and y reason, while somehow completely missing that maybe people just don't think that the games are missing the same things you do. The fact that you missed that is astounding. Maybe go get some reading comprehension instead of making more bad posts.
?????????????

I had no choice to use that word because how the fuck weren’t you being dense when the fact that people miss stuff from the past games is literally all over the thread, reading comprehension who? OP wanted to know people’s favorites, topic got brought up because OP wasn’t satisfied with people claiming that one style replaced the other and that people preferring the older games were a loud forum minority. You’re not even adressing my main point, which is that the sales argument is worthless and simply goes nowhere in the discussion. That’s it
 
This doesn’t help when you basically quoted each sentence out of context
No, I didn’t. The reason I quoted those specific sentences is because those were the ones I felt that emphasized your point. I quote specific sentences to drive, not discourage, discussion. I’m also on mobile, by the way.

It’s simply facts that being viral on social media is the most potent catalyst there is, you can argue whether it’s deserved or not but at the end of the day it’s the most powerful marketing tool
It’s also “simply facts” that you don’t sell multiple millions off the back of viral marketing. The point is that BotW and TotK have proven they have mass appeal, regardless of the marketing involved.

Second quote isn’t even about BOTW or TOTK, read again
I’ll admit this is my mistake, I misread your comment.

The problem is that it always ends up to be about how the last two games sold 30 million copies to then justify that “old style is done, deal with it”
Who said this in this thread? Aside from @Kreese who does get a little too fanboyish re: that topic. I personally have no problems with the old style returning.
 
From Aonuma comments and sales/general reception open world Zelda seems here to stay.

On the other hand “open world” can mean a lot of different things, and need not be the exact same basic structure and mechanics of the last two, which the team might be a little tired of by now anyway. I’d be happy to see a more urban Zelda centered on a modern and bigger successor to Clocktown for example. And things like durability (which I don’t have a problem with) and shrines need not be immutable elements of the new formula. Following conventions too strictly is one thing that made the old formula calcify and stagnate - the team is probably aware of this danger.

I would also be happy to see some form of the traditional formula continue in 2D.
 
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1. I didn't say people were still in their honeymoon period with BOTW. I said journalists critically overrated 3D Zelda. Explain how else Skyward Sword has a 93 Metacritic, with tons of 10/10s from major outlets, despite the game being deeply flawed with widespread criticism from fans? Journalists play a new 3D Zelda, they get infatuated with how wismical and grand the games are, and they get inflated scores without any in-depth dives into the games themselves. Happens every time, even for good Zelda games like BOTW. And installments like TOTK especially make very strong first impressions, only once the veneer is off do the issues crop up.

It's more a testament to how terrible the rest of the AAA games industry is that BOTW (good, but flawed) gets automatic 10/10s due to it being original compared to every other derivative open world title. If you read the reviews that's always the main sentiment underlying the praise.

2. BOTW did not drive the Switch's sales success at launch. New systems always sell out during their launch windows as the enthusiast market eats it up. Launch titles only drive sales momentum in the following months after the launch period. Even the Wii U was a sales success for its first few months.

BOTW's critical acclaim was a contributing factor to the success of the Switch, but it was a small one. Being the successor to Nintendo's handheld systems (always massively more successful than their home consoles) and having a string of critically acclaimed tentpole titles in its first year, no droughts, are being the real reasons behind the Switch's success. Not a single acclaimed game.

3. It's a remaster of the least popular 3D game in the series. Remasters sell less than new installments. This isn't even a question.

I outright said BOTW's critical success propelled sales further, you're not reading my posts. My original point was any competently made Zelda game at launch would have sold 10m. This is how brand power works. It's why terrible Pokemon sequels have continued to sell 20+ million; the brand is so strong and the formula is compelling, even if everything else surrounding it is shit. Quality and acclaim is only additive.
My god Shut the fuck up
 
Tears of the Kingdom is objectively the best game in my view. It’s basically a better version of Breath of the Wild.

Best

1. Tears of the Kingdom
2. Breath of the Wild
3. Ocarina of Time
4. A Link to the Past

My most beloved though are:

1. Ocarina of Time,
=. Breath of the Wild,
3. A Link to the Past
4. Tears of the Kingdom.

Ocarina came out when I was 14 and blew me away. It was as hyped as I’ve ever been for anything ever pretty much. For me, no game has ever been as good upon release as this game was relative to other games of its time.

BotW is just a bit more special to me over TotK because it broke the mould and delivered a brand new experience. It was the most I’d enjoyed a game for 10 years.

A Link to the Past was the first Zelda I ever owned or completed. I still think it’s the best 2D entry, just over ALBW. The dark world theme might be my favourite piece of Zelda music.
 
1. I didn't say people were still in their honeymoon period with BOTW. I said journalists critically overrated 3D Zelda. Explain how else Skyward Sword has a 93 Metacritic, with tons of 10/10s from major outlets, despite the game being deeply flawed with widespread criticism from fans? Journalists play a new 3D Zelda, they get infatuated with how wismical and grand the games are, and they get inflated scores without any in-depth dives into the games themselves. Happens every time, even for good Zelda games like BOTW. And installments like TOTK especially make very strong first impressions, only once the veneer is off do the issues crop up.

It's more a testament to how terrible the rest of the AAA games industry is that BOTW (good, but flawed) gets automatic 10/10s due to it being original compared to every other derivative open world title. If you read the reviews that's always the main sentiment underlying the praise.

2. BOTW did not drive the Switch's sales success at launch. New systems always sell out during their launch windows as the enthusiast market eats it up. Launch titles only drive sales momentum in the following months after the launch period. Even the Wii U was a sales success for its first few months.

BOTW's critical acclaim was a contributing factor to the success of the Switch, but it was a small one. Being the successor to Nintendo's handheld systems (always massively more successful than their home consoles) and having a string of critically acclaimed tentpole titles in its first year, no droughts, are being the real reasons behind the Switch's success. Not a single acclaimed game.

3. It's a remaster of the least popular 3D game in the series. Remasters sell less than new installments. This isn't even a question.

I outright said BOTW's critical success propelled sales further, you're not reading my posts. My original point was any competently made Zelda game at launch would have sold 10m. This is how brand power works. It's why terrible Pokemon sequels have continued to sell 20+ million; the brand is so strong and the formula is compelling, even if everything else surrounding it is shit. Quality and acclaim is only additive.
images
 
1. I didn't say people were still in their honeymoon period with BOTW. I said journalists critically overrated 3D Zelda. Explain how else Skyward Sword has a 93 Metacritic, with tons of 10/10s from major outlets, despite the game being deeply flawed with widespread criticism from fans? Journalists play a new 3D Zelda, they get infatuated with how wismical and grand the games are, and they get inflated scores without any in-depth dives into the games themselves. Happens every time, even for good Zelda games like BOTW. And installments like TOTK especially make very strong first impressions, only once the veneer is off do the issues crop up.

It's more a testament to how terrible the rest of the AAA games industry is that BOTW (good, but flawed) gets automatic 10/10s due to it being original compared to every other derivative open world title. If you read the reviews that's always the main sentiment underlying the praise.
this is really the important part (though I wouldn’t say terrible). We can debate about the flaws of SS compared to the rest of the series itself, but compared to the industry at large, there’s still not many games at all that match up to its level design, it’s wide variety of tools and gameplay mechanics for puzzle solving.

That’s pretty much the case with all Zelda games. There’s a ton of flaws you can nitpick in each, especially when comparing them to eachother, but there’s a lot more great stuff that these games do that the rest of the industry hasn’t matched or hasn’t even attempted to match. With that in mind I consider the reviews fair. When there’s a ton of stuff they’re doing extremely well that not many other games do, the flaws become pretty minor imo.

And the review scores even reflect SS’ divisiveness compared to the rest of the series. It’s the only sub-95 3D Zelda (outside of the remasters).

I think that’s a big disconnect with a lot of these big acclaimed franchises getting reviews. Fans of these series nitpick them and compare a ton of masterpiece games to eachother, but the reviewers who are reviewing them just came out of reviewing like… Redfall or something lol. They’re comparing these games to the rest of the industry.
 
1. I didn't say people were still in their honeymoon period with BOTW. I said journalists critically overrated 3D Zelda. Explain how else Skyward Sword has a 93 Metacritic, with tons of 10/10s from major outlets, despite the game being deeply flawed with widespread criticism from fans? Journalists play a new 3D Zelda, they get infatuated with how wismical and grand the games are, and they get inflated scores without any in-depth dives into the games themselves. Happens every time, even for good Zelda games like BOTW. And installments like TOTK especially make very strong first impressions, only once the veneer is off do the issues crop up.

It's more a testament to how terrible the rest of the AAA games industry is that BOTW (good, but flawed) gets automatic 10/10s due to it being original compared to every other derivative open world title. If you read the reviews that's always the main sentiment underlying the praise.

2. BOTW did not drive the Switch's sales success at launch. New systems always sell out during their launch windows as the enthusiast market eats it up. Launch titles only drive sales momentum in the following months after the launch period. Even the Wii U was a sales success for its first few months.

BOTW's critical acclaim was a contributing factor to the success of the Switch, but it was a small one. Being the successor to Nintendo's handheld systems (always massively more successful than their home consoles) and having a string of critically acclaimed tentpole titles in its first year, no droughts, are being the real reasons behind the Switch's success. Not a single acclaimed game.

3. It's a remaster of the least popular 3D game in the series. Remasters sell less than new installments. This isn't even a question.

I outright said BOTW's critical success propelled sales further, you're not reading my posts. My original point was any competently made Zelda game at launch would have sold 10m. This is how brand power works. It's why terrible Pokemon sequels have continued to sell 20+ million; the brand is so strong and the formula is compelling, even if everything else surrounding it is shit. Quality and acclaim is only additive.
...are we really doing Belda now?
 
Ignoring the lethal levels of malding over BotW and TotK's success for a moment, I wonder if upper management at Nintendo would let someone else outside of EPD3 take a stab at a more linear OoT-style game. Maybe something shorter (15ish hours like Star Fox Adventures or Beyond Good & Evil) that isn't overly concerned with pushing the envelope graphically or technically wouldn't fare that badly.
 
For ableist language and extreme hostility you have been permanently banned. - PixelKnight, Xghost777, MondoMega
Not an argument, try engaging in the discussion next time or don't contribute
youre a fucking dumbass. no one wants to read or engage with your retarded bullshit. get the fuck off this site you terminally online prick

Mod edit- spoiler tags added
 
As a huge fan of the series, I always change my mind on how I rank them. So I'll separate my choices into tiers, with games listed alphabetically in each tier:

Icon tier
Breath of the Wild, Ocarina of Time, Tears of the Kingdom

the Weird Excellent tier
Majora's Mask, Wind Waker

the Flawed But Many Redeeming Features tier
Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess

Honestly I'd put the second four in the same tier below my top three I just wanted to come up with more tiers
Ignoring the lethal levels of malding over BotW and TotK's success for a moment, I wonder if upper management at Nintendo would let someone else outside of EPD3 take a stab at a more linear OoT-style game. Maybe something shorter (15ish hours like Star Fox Adventures or Beyond Good & Evil) that isn't overly concerned with pushing the envelope graphically or technically wouldn't fare that badly.
I think Zelda has new titles coming that aren't Warriors or open world and this is one option, but Aonuma specifically wanted the 'portable'/2D team to come up with new ideas and Link's Awakening (2019) is somewhere over 6.5 million sold now. So my assumption would be that top-down style getting a new title is the likeliest development, but who knows?

But yeah. I think, with the right approach, new linear Zelda could sell 5 million plus and easily justify the investment. Likeliest scenario is EPD 3 plus plucky co-developer, exactly so that Nintendo don't slow down the Zelda pipeline any further.
 
I really think the lack of games like Zelda is less about cost and more that most developers just can't design a Zelda game and aren't interested in trying. When they do, it always betrays a lack of understanding somewhere, like how Star Fox Adventures has an adventure game-styled inventory where most items are context sensitive and can't even be used outside of the spots the game wants you to use them.

Tiny indie devs have made some of the most accurate imitations. If you want the scope of Ocarina of Time, yeah, that's gonna be expensive, but it's not a prerequisite. People love entries like Majora's Mask and Minish Cap. And people other than Nintendo make stupid expensive games all the time, the cost is more of a burden on them than on the rest of the industry.

It doesn't make sense that Ocarina of Time wouldn't be influential. You could write off something like Metroid Prime as a cult classic, but Ocarina? However, in all likelihood the games influenced by its success are things like Skyrim or Fable or Dark Souls. That about tracks with how the genre supposedly inspired by Metroid shook out, after all. Simpler level design, simpler game mechanics, an emphasis on combat and added RPG elements to paper over that.
 
Mainline Zelda is going to be open world for at least the next 15 years and probably longer.

If they ever do go back to the old formula it will just be spin off side projects.
 
I really think the lack of games like Zelda is less about cost and more that most developers just can't design a Zelda game and aren't interested in trying. When they do, it always betrays a lack of understanding somewhere, like how Star Fox Adventures has an adventure game-styled inventory where most items are context sensitive and can't even be used outside of the spots the game wants you to use them.

Tiny indie devs have made some of the most accurate imitations. If you want the scope of Ocarina of Time, yeah, that's gonna be expensive, but it's not a prerequisite. People love entries like Majora's Mask and Minish Cap. And people other than Nintendo make stupid expensive games all the time, the cost is more of a burden on them than on the rest of the industry.

It doesn't make sense that Ocarina of Time wouldn't be influential. You could write off something like Metroid Prime as a cult classic, but Ocarina? However, in all likelihood the games influenced by its success are things like Skyrim or Fable or Dark Souls. That about tracks with how the genre supposedly inspired by Metroid shook out, after all. Simpler level design, simpler game mechanics, an emphasis on combat and added RPG elements to paper over that.

One studio did try and seemed to succeed....and then Capcom shut them down

 
Ignoring the lethal levels of malding over BotW and TotK's success for a moment, I wonder if upper management at Nintendo would let someone else outside of EPD3 take a stab at a more linear OoT-style game. Maybe something shorter (15ish hours like Star Fox Adventures or Beyond Good & Evil) that isn't overly concerned with pushing the envelope graphically or technically wouldn't fare that badly.
It could be done but I feel like it might dilute the brand a bit from Nintendo’s perspective. Maybe if they can figure out some way to market them separately the way they do 2D and 3D Mario, but I can see concern about people buying The Legend Of Zelda: The Magic Guitar and instead of a sprawling 200 hour open world it’s a linear quest with half a dozen dungeons and a small overworld. I’d love to see it though, if they figured out a scope for a subseries that would reliably sell 4-6 million I’d be happy with that.

The games definitely got too long as they went on. Something closer to OOT in scope would be perfect for me.
 
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One studio did try and seemed to succeed....and then Capcom shut them down



Thinking that Okami is a good representation of Zelda will never not boggle the mind.
Okami is pretty much what I was talking about with showing a lack of understanding in key areas. The items, overworld, and towns were arguably done better than some actual Zelda games, if you don't mind the weird drawing mechanics and constant load screens. The "dungeons" and combat on the other hand fall completely flat, and the tone can't decide if it wants to be Zelda or Conker's Bad Fur Day. You are a majestic wolf goddess on a quest to save the land from evil! Piss and shit on things in combat! Look, boobs!

It's the closest anyone else has come to making 3D Zelda, but depending on what you're looking for from the series, you could be sorely disappointed.
 
I think Zelda has new titles coming that aren't Warriors or open world and this is one option, but Aonuma specifically wanted the 'portable'/2D team to come up with new ideas and Link's Awakening (2019) is somewhere over 6.5 million sold now. So my assumption would be that top-down style getting a new title is the likeliest development, but who knows?

But yeah. I think, with the right approach, new linear Zelda could sell 5 million plus and easily justify the investment. Likeliest scenario is EPD 3 plus plucky co-developer, exactly so that Nintendo don't slow down the Zelda pipeline any further.
Shortly after Link's Awakening came out I heard rumblings about remakes of the Oracle games but that was almost 4 years ago and I haven't heard anything since so I don't really know what their plans are for 2D Zelda. I think it's possible that they have figured out a future for the subseries but we'll just have to see.

It could be done but I feel like it might dilute the brand a bit from Nintendo’s perspective. Maybe if they can figure out some way to market them separately the way they do 2D and 3D Mario, but I can see concern about people buying The Legend Of Zelda: The Magic Guitar and instead of a sprawling 200 hour open world it’s a linear quest with half a dozen dungeons and a small overworld. I’d love to see it though, if they figured out a scope for a subseries that would reliably sell 4-6 million I’d be happy with that.

The games definitely got too long as they went on. Something closer to OOT in scope would be perfect for me.
Oh yeah, fully agreed.

Ocarina of Time was the only one where I felt like they weren't excessively padding the playtime by making me do mandatory stuff that should have been relegated to side content or removed entirely. (I'm taking Majora's Mask out of the equation because of how different it is from the others.) With the later games, especially Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, it felt like they were afraid that people might finish them in less than 30 hours. And Wind Waker obviously has the Triforce hunt.
 
this is always a tricky one… and my answer changes each time!
  1. Wind Waker
  2. Majora’s Mask
  3. Breath of the Wild
  4. Skyward Sword
  5. Tears of the Kingdom
  6. Ocarina of Time
  7. Twilight Princess
and they’re all fairly close for me! or at least jockeying for position

Wind Waker — I love the stylization, and it made each and every location feel so alive and new! I know a lot of people feel it’s unfinished, but… I don’t care, lol. it has a kind of wonder that many others don’t match.

Majora’s Mask — the setting, the gag, the side stories, the main stories, the themes… it’s truly the darkest and kindest of all of them, and unforgettable.

Breath of the Wild — I rank BotW way above TotK because its systems were made for it and you can really feel it. Nothing beats the true wonder of playing it for the first time. And the bad cutscenes are so much better than most of TotK’s.

Skyward Sword — you may be asking yourself… really? Yeah, really! There’s lots I hate about the story, but I do like that it has trajectory. And it turns out motion control is kind of incredible. and the HD version really improved the look. Plus, beautiful and interesting dungeons. And Ghirahim was actually threatening! (despite uh. yeah)

i was gonna type more but i am so

fucking

tired
 
Shortly after Link's Awakening came out I heard rumblings about remakes of the Oracle games but that was almost 4 years ago and I haven't heard anything since so I don't really know what their plans are for 2D Zelda. I think it's possible that they have figured out a future for the subseries but we'll just have to see.
there were no rumors just all fan speculation since it would make logical sense to take the assets from link's awaking remake to remake the oracle games
 
Concerning the idea that's been bandied about regarding New-Zelda-vs-Old-Zelda, I might note both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are presently hovering at around the same number of votes as Breath of the Wild. Clearly, Tears of the Kingdom is blowing all of them away in vote count and percentage, but even that is muddied somewhat when one considers we have voters in this very thread who have stated their vote would have gone to Majora's Mask up until Tears released. While I suspect most Tears votes are likely to have gone to Breath in the absence of that title, we really can't draw a strict dichotomy.

We don't have a particularly large sample size here, and it's specific to this particular community, but what we have here doesn't point to a clear split in preference for one type versus the other (and even then, there will be variations in each grouping). It's overwhelmingly skewed toward Tears, but that only necessarily speaks to one game. People's preferences, one might assume, will be determined on a game-per-game basis, though some will obviously have a propensity toward one broad style over the other.

Majora's Mask is an exemplary example for variations in the same grouping, actually. It'll be grouped under the old style in these discussions, but its focus is markedly different. The typical dungeon structure still pushes the plot along, but the overall story, the actual meat of the game, is found in what would in any other case be relegated to side content (and I can see the potential for people to completely miss this or to know it and dislike it). A lot of the differentiating decisions made in that game's development are what draw various people to it, but they are also likely to hold it back from having more mass appeal.

And I guess that leads into the oft-repeated refrain that that something has more worth or is better as evidenced by higher sales figures, which ... this isn't really the case. Oftentimes, something will be exceptionally good and artful, weighed with theme and meaning, so on and so forth, through use of attributes that will push the bulk of a potential audience away. Sometimes, a piece of media will release in the wrong place, at the wrong time. The marketing might simply not have caught people's attention. Something selling less than something else isn't itself an indication that that thing is worse. And this doesn't mean the inverse; it doesn't mean something that sells exceptionally well must be lesser.

In Zelda's case, there's clearly a large contingent that has bought the most recent titles but never bought the older ones, and there's a noted addition that bought Tears but not Breath. That's how the numbers stack up. And this can be attributed to any number of factors, all interplaying and interacting with each other.

And this can loop back around to the beginning, that the dichotomy between people liking New-Zelda-vs-Old-Zelda isn't necessarily as strict as some like to present it. And there's always the question of why people might give the newer titles a chance but never did for the older, and what they might think of the older titles were they to give them a fair chance.
 
there were no rumors just all fan speculation since it would make logical sense to take the assets from link's awaking remake to remake the oracle games
No there were definitely "rumours", you just didn’t hear about them lol

Thinking that Okami is a good representation of Zelda will never not boggle the mind.

Is this about you disagreeing with Okami being similar to Zelda or being good? Or both?
 
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Shortly after Link's Awakening came out I heard rumblings about remakes of the Oracle games but that was almost 4 years ago and I haven't heard anything since so I don't really know what their plans are for 2D Zelda. I think it's possible that they have figured out a future for the subseries but we'll just have to see.
It does seem odd that the Oracles games are easily available on the subscription, but I'd certainly buy Link's Awakening style remakes if they happened. I guess, with Age of Calamity, Skyward Sword and Tears coming after Link's Awakening, there also hasn't been a natural point for releasing another 2D remake or a new title. Zelda schedule's been full, more or less.

I'll will the Zelda: Oracle of Secrets timeline into being. It'd also be funny if remakes did start, but then shifted into a new title; like Seasons itself starting as a remake of Zelda 1.
 
It does seem odd that the Oracles games are easily available on the subscription, but I'd certainly buy Link's Awakening style remakes if they happened. I guess, with Age of Calamity, Skyward Sword and Tears coming after Link's Awakening, there also hasn't been a natural point for releasing another 2D remake or a new title. Zelda schedule's been full, more or less.

I'll will the Zelda: Oracle of Secrets timeline into being. It'd also be funny if remakes did start, but then shifted into a new title; like Seasons itself starting as a remake of Zelda 1.
I'd love an Oracle of Secrets though I don't really know how they'd make it fit with Ages and Seasons, especially since Farore already has a role in both games. The most likely outcome imo is that they rework the linked game content in some way, giving Farore a bigger role, expanding the Room of Rites etc.
 
Okami is pretty much what I was talking about with showing a lack of understanding in key areas. The items, overworld, and towns were arguably done better than some actual Zelda games, if you don't mind the weird drawing mechanics and constant load screens. The "dungeons" and combat on the other hand fall completely flat, and the tone can't decide if it wants to be Zelda or Conker's Bad Fur Day. You are a majestic wolf goddess on a quest to save the land from evil! Piss and shit on things in combat! Look, boobs!

It's the closest anyone else has come to making 3D Zelda, but depending on what you're looking for from the series, you could be sorely disappointed.

My opinion has always been that Okami absolutely runs circles around the Zelda games of the same generation in terms of how the abilities are used to affect the world and puzzles, and combat, and the entire combat system is leagues ahead of any of the pre BOTW Zelda games as well, for that matter.

If you don't want the Japanese historical aesthetic it might not be something someone is looking for, but that's everyone else's loss.

If anything, Okami not doing spectacularly in sales is probably why nobody ever really bothered making other Zelda like games. The graphics, soundtrack, world design, amount of content are all outstanding, but (relatively) nobody bought it, so nobody else ever tried again.
 
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honestly the most exciting Zelda “remakes” to me would be Zelda 1 or 2. 2 because I haven’t played it and it’d b interesting to see a side scrolling Zelda in 2023.

1 I would just love a total 3D reimagining of. Something that uses its simple story set-up, it’s bosses, combat-focused labyrinthe dungeons, a light dash of logic based puzzles but not as many as the games after it had, a lot of choice of where to go next but not completely open, classic trident pig ganon lol, etc.. I almost want to say it could be a soulslike, but it would obviously be very different from those games tonally and mechanically. Moreso having the traits that a linear plot would take a backseat to lore, and that it could be actually a pretty difficult game with a noted lack of guidance. Would cut down on the complete freedom that the open air games have, but wouldn’t be nearly as guided as the OoT style games - in fact I’d like it to be pretty obtuse like the Souls games can be, I think it would channel the original NES game very well.

The open air games recaptured the feeling of Zelda 1 in many ways - using a bunch of varied tools to come up with logical solutions in order to explore the world, the feeling of freedom and lack of being told exactly where to go to progress. But they don’t quite capture that feeling of danger and how you could actually get stuck. For understandable reasons of course, it goes against their design, but it is something I think a remake of the first game that really focuses on recapturing all of the traits it had could focus on.
 
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honestly the most exciting Zelda “remakes” to me would be Zelda 1 or 2. 2 because I haven’t played it and it’d b interesting to see a side scrolling Zelda in 2023.

1 I would just love a total 3D reimagining of. Something that uses its simple story set-up, it’s bosses, combat-focused labyrinthe dungeons, a light dash of logic based puzzles but not as many as the games after it had, a lot of choice of where to go next but not completely open, classic trident pig ganon lol, etc.. I almost want to say it could be a soulslike, but it would obviously be very different from those games tonally and mechanically. Moreso the overall traits that a linear plot would take a backseat to lore, and that it could be actually a pretty difficult game with a noted lack of guidance. Would cut down on the complete freedom that the open air games have, but wouldn’t be nearly as guided as the OoT style games - in fact I’d like it to be pretty obtuse like the Souls games can be, I think it would channel the original NES game very well.
I’ve often thought that a lot of what makes Legend of Zelda’s combat is that it’s fairly finicky. Not unfair, but the random movement patterns of enemies, the short range of your sword, no moving diagonally, the only-one-support-item-at-a-time setup due to only two buttons. Fairly strict limits on where you can resupply and heal. I feel like a modern remake sticking closely to the original (like Link’s Awakening on Switch) would probably smooth out a lot of that and increase the relative power and options available to Link to use more of the buttons/stick, and so remove a lot of the game’s challenge seeing as it’s so combat-heavy. Whereas the original LTTP and LA already felt a lot smoother in terms of combat.

As such, yeah, I think I’d prefer to see LoZ reimagined to try and capture its fast-paced, arcadey and combat-heavy, dungeon-focused nature in 3D. Rather than a remake in 2D, or how BOTW/TotK went more for the exploration/experimentation angle with a far longer running time.
 
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It sounds reductive because the fact that sales are that big of a topic is reductive in the first place. It’s simply a dead end to bring up sales because no matter what, the last two games simply do not deliver on certain aspects. No matter the narrative, no matter the legitimate reasons why a game you like would sell well, at the end of the day it’s true that what actually makes it blow up are the memes, and this simply does go beyond anything a marketing campaign or the gaming press can do. What matters is how far the meme reaches, some simply reach further than others. You could argue why Fortnite stands out from other BR games but at the end of the day, what made it blow up is Drake. There’s a lot of arguments on how Dark Souls made From Software not niche anymore, but at the end of the day its memes (git gud etc) reached outside of gaming forums, you saw that shit on 9GAG and the like. Couple the fact that bums like pewdiepie played it, well you suddenly have a game that was initially only known by people that post on gaming forums become somewhat mainstream. Meanwhile something like Shin Megami Tensei actually had all the ingredients to break through its niche and become the “Dark Souls of Final Fantasy” or whatever but it simply reached a plateau, notably because Matador memes only make sense within forums and extremely niche circles

At the end of the day sales numbers themselves have nothing to do with quality, Fortnite has a billion downloads and it’s far from the best TPS ever made. Last time Nintendo rested on their laurels and made sequels to stuff that sold well on the Wii, that lead to launching the Wii U with NSMBU, which didn’t help at all, it didn’t look like a new system. Settling that “the upcoming Zeldas will be like the last two because they sold more” is awfully limiting and far from the argument that would silence this “tired topic”, because not only they draw lines in the sand in terms of structures that the games can take, but it’s also saying that future Zelda games are bound to be grindy which is just depressing
How are you going to throw words around like reductive in one breath when it suits you, yet in the very next it seems you're not willing to accept any possible reason for TOTK's sales other than memes?

lol No, it couldn't possibly be things that completely contradict your argument and indicate quality like incredible reviews, positive WOM and hype built up from the previous open air entry in the franchise which is widely seen as one of the greatest games ever... nope, it's the memes :rolleyes:

Sounds rather inaccurate and reductive to me.
 
Okami is pretty much what I was talking about with showing a lack of understanding in key areas. The items, overworld, and towns were arguably done better than some actual Zelda games, if you don't mind the weird drawing mechanics and constant load screens. The "dungeons" and combat on the other hand fall completely flat, and the tone can't decide if it wants to be Zelda or Conker's Bad Fur Day. You are a majestic wolf goddess on a quest to save the land from evil! Piss and shit on things in combat! Look, boobs!

It's the closest anyone else has come to making 3D Zelda, but depending on what you're looking for from the series, you could be sorely disappointed.
I mean like it or not toilet humor HAS been a part of Japanese myths and culture

 
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To think I was worried about this becoming a listing thread only....XD
Interesting to see that, at least by the comments, there's a relevant number of people who have TOTK as their favorite and BOTW isn't their second. Indeed, as someone mentioned, it's not dichotomy between open air x classic.

About the results, it's always important to see it as the community opinion and not trying to extrapolate. That was my intention when making the thread, to know what fami thinks about 3d Zelda. Btw, for those interested, Era and gamefaqs also made one.
 
I really don't understand why we can't have discussions on the internet where people disagree without people getting super defensive, passive aggressive, or otherwise attacking each other. No matter where I go, I always notice this underhanded, toxic tone in these sorts of contentious debates. It's not healthy and just discourages people from engaging. The only time I haven't seen this happen is in academic forums in university. I'm 40 years old now, and I've been posting on online forums since my teenage years, and sadly, very little has changed since I first started.

Please realize when you make snide, condescending, or otherwise rude remarks to your fellow interlocutors how that makes you look (if that is something you care about). In most cases, it is much more helpful and constructive to focus on the points of the discussion rather than the people involved in the discussion (unless the people are the subject of the discussion or the discussion has become toxic or unproductive). If we don't take this kind of approach, I'm afraid this place will end up just like every other forum on the internet, which is a shame because it doesn't have to be that way.
 
It's Skyward Sword for me. It's the most engaged I've been with dungeon and puzzle design in my short but intense relationship with the TLOZ series.

Those puzzles flowed like water, in my opinion. They were intuitive, challenging and engaging. Please give me another Zelda game like that one.
 
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Okami is pretty much what I was talking about with showing a lack of understanding in key areas. The items, overworld, and towns were arguably done better than some actual Zelda games, if you don't mind the weird drawing mechanics and constant load screens. The "dungeons" and combat on the other hand fall completely flat, and the tone can't decide if it wants to be Zelda or Conker's Bad Fur Day. You are a majestic wolf goddess on a quest to save the land from evil! Piss and shit on things in combat! Look, boobs!

It's the closest anyone else has come to making 3D Zelda, but depending on what you're looking for from the series, you could be sorely disappointed.
Is this about you disagreeing with Okami being similar to Zelda or being good? Or both?
Yes.

It was mostly a snipe against the game's quality, but I don't think it's a particularly good Zelda-like either. Okami has a lot of things that are theoretically better than classic Zelda games: Its focus on getting new main weapons seems like a missed opportunity for the older Zelda games as it's way better than just getting a lame bow or magic rod, its fields and level design works on a story-basis which means you don't just get one massive field / ocean in the middle of the entire map, and its use of a central mechanic to tie together all the mechanics and puzzles in the game is genius (Nintendo does this a lot nowadays, with the wall mechanic in ALBW, the starting tools in BOTW, or Cappy in Odyssey).

But the execution is largely bad all around. The combat in the game can't decide if it wants to let the player use their tools to make quick player-driven encounters (fun) or if it wants to restrict the player to treating enemies like puzzles where you need one specific brush stroke or weapon to dispatch them (not fun). This, of course, becomes excessively terrible when you realize your brush strokes won't land at least 15% of the time in combat, and when you realize you have to switch out weapons mid combat. I think it was a missed opportunity for the 3D linear Zelda games to build on their combat systems and require more from the player, but Okami proves why Nintendo probably had so many stipulations about it.

The dungeons are incredibly mid, so much so to a point that I can barely remember them outside of the most general of concepts / story beats. I don't think every dungeon knocks it out of the park in classic Zelda games, but I honestly struggle to think of a single great one in Okami outside of the one with the magical slip. I can remember very clearly how bad the pirate ship dungeon is though, which is very linear and way too easy.

Okami's central gameplay concept of using brush strokes also feels a bit at odds with the unlock structure the game goes for, too. You'd think a game about creativity and artistry would let the player guess what patterns you need in order to do certain puzzles, but instead you need to get ink scrolls to unlock new ink abilities ... even though you already have the ink brush. This in theory doesn't sound that bad, but in execution it makes the progression of Ameratsu so much more lame as time goes on, instead of unlocking new abilities by getting new items, you unlock abilities by gaining powers you had access to from the very beginning of the game. It's Zelda's problem of items (in this case brush strokes) being useless outside of certain contexts, only this time it doesn't even give the player the seratonin of getting a new item.

A lot of what Okami offers is sort of a monkey's paw situation. Sure, it's cool that fields are now more like hubs for specific story beats, but this ignores the fact that the game only needs multiple hubs because the game drags on so long. My favorite part of Okami is that if you mention how the game made the exact same conclusion at hour 15 that it did at hour 45, people will tell you that the fact that the same arc is repeated three times is intentional. As if that makes the game better. The only thing I can really give Okami is that the fact that the story evolves mid-dungeons is pretty cool, and I think it was a missed opportunity that older Zelda games didn't do that. Even if admittedly classic Zelda games always struggled to make good stories, Okami's story isn't great either and it was still cool to see the story doesn't come to a halt when you enter a dungeon.

It's honestly the worst Kamiya game I've ever played, and one of the worst Capcom games I've ever played in general. I can't even give it too much credit for its arstyle, because it has the same drab PS2 color palette that tons of games had back then. At least it's music is mostly good.
 
I might be in the minority here, but I think Breath of the Wild is structured better than TOTK. BOTW felt like it encouraged on foot exploration and was a breath of fresh air in terms of its simplicity, especially after completing Assassin's Creed Odyssey. In TOTK, the first thing I did was fly my way to the top of Death Mountain without having recognized that there was a quest attached to it. When I rode in on the path to Goron city, I immediately began encountering NPCs as intended. Similarly, I ended up finishing the Labyrinth in Akkala wrong by dropping in from the sky. There might be a limit to how open-ended Zelda should be, and I think BOTW struck that balance perfectly by restricting Link's actions to an extent.
 
Man so many of you are in the honeymoon period with TOTK. I hope the game doesn't continue to be overrated as the years go on. Think the flaws will get more discussed and analyzed over the next couple, at least hopefully.

What a joke lol. Back to ignore you go
 
Honeymoon period? Most of my feed on Reddit, YouTube, etc. shows quite the opposite. If there was a honeymoon period, it's over. It's been a quarter of a year.

It is over for me, at least. The allure of picking up a new Zelda after rewatching the story trailer dozens of time, waiting in line at Nintendo NY on the midnight release party, is all now a distant, fond memory.

Despite that, I adore the game. So.
 
I'd love an Oracle of Secrets though I don't really know how they'd make it fit with Ages and Seasons, especially since Farore already has a role in both games. The most likely outcome imo is that they rework the linked game content in some way, giving Farore a bigger role, expanding the Room of Rites etc.
if they remade it would have to be both games on the same cartridge. Each game individually has a little bit less content than link's awakening
 
Great contribution to this discussion board.
Accusing forum members who enjoyed Totk from being on honeymoon period isn't respectful and also not a good way to have a discussion. You can always expose your thoughts on the game and why it didn't work for you.
 


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