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Discussion Fami favorite 3d Zelda game (post TOTK edition)

What's your favorite 3D Zelda?

  • Ocarina of Time

  • Majora's Mask

  • Wind Waker

  • Twilight Princess

  • Skyward Sword

  • Breath of the Wild

  • Tears of the Kingdom


Results are only viewable after voting.
Accusing forum members who enjoyed Totk from being on honeymoon period isn't respectful and also not a good way to have a discussion. You can always expose your thoughts on the game and why it didn't work for you.
It's not an accusation, it's just I've seen the trend of immediately proclaiming the latest entry to be the greatest one happen repeatedly with multiple franchises. Within Zelda I've seen the sentiment occur for every entry since Twilight Princess. Sure every entry is someone's favorite, but when I see a poll asking "which game is the best one?" and the overwhelming consensus is "the new one!!!!" I''m gonna be skeptical that the new car smell isn't skewing opinions.

For my thoughts on the game, I've posted them in this thread already. I think it makes a strong first impression but doesn't do enough new compared to BOTW.
 
Yes.

It was mostly a snipe against the game's quality, but I don't think it's a particularly good Zelda-like either. Okami has a lot of things that are theoretically better than classic Zelda games: Its focus on getting new main weapons seems like a missed opportunity for the older Zelda games as it's way better than just getting a lame bow or magic rod, its fields and level design works on a story-basis which means you don't just get one massive field / ocean in the middle of the entire map, and its use of a central mechanic to tie together all the mechanics and puzzles in the game is genius (Nintendo does this a lot nowadays, with the wall mechanic in ALBW, the starting tools in BOTW, or Cappy in Odyssey).

But the execution is largely bad all around. The combat in the game can't decide if it wants to let the player use their tools to make quick player-driven encounters (fun) or if it wants to restrict the player to treating enemies like puzzles where you need one specific brush stroke or weapon to dispatch them (not fun). This, of course, becomes excessively terrible when you realize your brush strokes won't land at least 15% of the time in combat, and when you realize you have to switch out weapons mid combat. I think it was a missed opportunity for the 3D linear Zelda games to build on their combat systems and require more from the player, but Okami proves why Nintendo probably had so many stipulations about it.

The dungeons are incredibly mid, so much so to a point that I can barely remember them outside of the most general of concepts / story beats. I don't think every dungeon knocks it out of the park in classic Zelda games, but I honestly struggle to think of a single great one in Okami outside of the one with the magical slip. I can remember very clearly how bad the pirate ship dungeon is though, which is very linear and way too easy.

Okami's central gameplay concept of using brush strokes also feels a bit at odds with the unlock structure the game goes for, too. You'd think a game about creativity and artistry would let the player guess what patterns you need in order to do certain puzzles, but instead you need to get ink scrolls to unlock new ink abilities ... even though you already have the ink brush. This in theory doesn't sound that bad, but in execution it makes the progression of Ameratsu so much more lame as time goes on, instead of unlocking new abilities by getting new items, you unlock abilities by gaining powers you had access to from the very beginning of the game. It's Zelda's problem of items (in this case brush strokes) being useless outside of certain contexts, only this time it doesn't even give the player the seratonin of getting a new item.

A lot of what Okami offers is sort of a monkey's paw situation. Sure, it's cool that fields are now more like hubs for specific story beats, but this ignores the fact that the game only needs multiple hubs because the game drags on so long. My favorite part of Okami is that if you mention how the game made the exact same conclusion at hour 15 that it did at hour 45, people will tell you that the fact that the same arc is repeated three times is intentional. As if that makes the game better. The only thing I can really give Okami is that the fact that the story evolves mid-dungeons is pretty cool, and I think it was a missed opportunity that older Zelda games didn't do that. Even if admittedly classic Zelda games always struggled to make good stories, Okami's story isn't great either and it was still cool to see the story doesn't come to a halt when you enter a dungeon.

It's honestly the worst Kamiya game I've ever played, and one of the worst Capcom games I've ever played in general. I can't even give it too much credit for its arstyle, because it has the same drab PS2 color palette that tons of games had back then. At least it's music is mostly good.
Ah, I appreciate the clarification. I'm not nearly as harsh as you are on the game but still share many of the criticisms. Okami always felt like a game that is part of the 3D Zelda lineage due to its obvious inspirations and vague structural similarities yet tries to do its own thing to varying degrees of success.
 
I don't think it's that weird that TOTK is the favorite even if it's the most recent. It's basically BOTW+++, and BOTW was the long-standing favorite in online gaming communities before TOTK came out, even unseating OOT after 20 years. So while I'm sure some people will cool on TOTK as time goes on, I would bet pretty good money if you ran this poll 3 years from now, TOTK would still be the favorite, even if the gap between it and BOTW might be narrower.
 
It's not an accusation, it's just I've seen the trend of immediately proclaiming the latest entry to be the greatest one happen repeatedly with multiple franchises. Within Zelda I've seen the sentiment occur for every entry since Twilight Princess. Sure every entry is someone's favorite, but when I see a poll asking "which game is the best one?" and the overwhelming consensus is "the new one!!!!" I''m gonna be skeptical that the new car smell isn't skewing opinions.

For my thoughts on the game, I've posted them in this thread already. I think it makes a strong first impression but doesn't do enough new compared to BOTW.
I agree at some level of recency bias but the way you framed it in that post feels like: "Wake up sheeps, you all think that Totk is the best Zelda game but at some point you will open your eyes to the truth."

While I agree some people will change their opinion(also change mine from time to time) Totk will probably stay winning on this community even if with a narrower gap, like Mekanos mentioned. And that's Fami results.

Era had this one where the gap between TOTK and BOTW is smaller and gamefaqs also had one last moth with similar size to ours. Totk isn't winning on neither. The recency bias doesn't explain everything.
 
I was very active on forums during Skyward Sword's release and the consensus was absolutely not 'the new one is the best'. There was certainly excitement and buzz as critical reception seemed good but it was absolutely not at the level of BotW/TotK.

Many disagreed heavily with Edge's 10 for that game (and still do) and the linearity and hand-holding were heavily criticized, I remember a constant point of conversation up until BotW's reveal was that Dark Souls / Skyrim / Witcher 3 achieved the 'Zelda feel' better than Skyward Sword and that Zelda should learn from those games. During pre-release when the overworld map was being revealed people kept holding out hope that the entirety of pre-Hyrule would be explorable. I recall this vividly because I ferociously defended Skyward Sword's level and puzzle design - which remains great - even though I did agree that it didn't really feel like I was exploring a naturalistic 'world' like I imagined when playing Ocarina.

Apparently my opinion as someone who's played every 3D Zelda and considers TotK my favorite is invalidated because I'm suckered into the hot new thing and the truth will arrive years later, and not because I can actually pinpoint what I like and dislike about every single one of these entries.

Recency bias plays a role, but what's the "statute of limitations"? If the game is adored 3 months later, is that still a honeymoon? The game is long, but not that long.
 
I agree at some level of recency bias but the way you framed it in that post feels like: "Wake up sheeps, you all think that Totk is the best Zelda game but at some point you will open your eyes to the truth."

While I agree some people will change their opinion(also change mine from time to time) Totk will probably stay winning on this community even if with a narrower gap, like Mekanos mentioned. And that's Fami results.

Era had this one where the gap between TOTK and BOTW is smaller and gamefaqs also had one last moth with similar size to ours. Totk isn't winning on neither. The recency bias doesn't explain everything.
Which is why if I want to get the opinions of the truest Nintendo and Zelda fans, Famiboards.is clearly the place to be ;)

TOTK is going to age like fine wine because it's a bloody fantastic... my only concern for Nintendo is how do they top this? Inevitably they will but it's hard for me to picture the next Zelda at this point.
 
This is how I remember early fan response for each of the 3D Zeldas:

OOT - The second coming
MM - Kind of awesome but not nearly as appreciated as OOT when it released, gained more of a cult following later
TTP - 8.8 pretty much defined public perception and the lengthy tutorial did it no favours
WW - Was maligned for being childish and seems far more appreciated now than it was on release
SS - The most divisive game on the list
BOTW - The second second coming
TOTK - A game that most consider better than the previous in nigh every way imaginable
 
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Uhh not really there’s no such thing as “truest” Nintendo and Zelda fans
I'm of the opinion that you're more likely to find people who know more about the nuances of the Zelda franchise on a forum with generally more educated fans than say... gamefaq for instance... but different perspectives and all I guess.
 
I'm of the opinion that you're more likely to find people who know more about the nuances of the Zelda franchise on a forum with generally more educated fans than say... gamefaq for instance... but different perspectives and all I guess.
This is how I remember early fan response for each of the 3D Zeldas:

OOT - The second coming
MM - Kind of awesome but not nearly as appreciated as OOT when it released, gained more of a cult following later
TTP - 8.8 pretty much defined public perception and the lengthy tutorial did it no favours
WW - Was maligned for being childish and seems far more appreciated now than it was on release

SS - The most divisive game on the list
BOTW - The second second coming
TOTK - A game that most consider better than the previous in nigh every way imaginable
Ah yes, the famous release order of the Zelda series: The Toilet Princess (2002), followed by the Weed Wacker (2006).
 
One way to top TotK is implementing a brand new dense overworld (obviously) with an even greater variety of unique entities, explorable areas and challenges. They have the right area with the various caves, wells, shrines, sky islands, etc., hosting a naturalistic world that satisfies that wanderlust of wanting to go into a random crevice and cavern while still having some structured linear level design with bespoke puzzles, actually reminding me quite a bit of LttP. As with BotW I think the Zelda team are keenly aware of the existing criticisms of this game and probably have hundreds of ideas they didn't have time or power to implement.
 
One way to top TotK is implementing a brand new dense overworld (obviously) with an even greater variety of unique entities, explorable areas and challenges. They have the right area with the various caves, wells, shrines, sky islands, etc., hosting a naturalistic world that satisfies that wanderlust of wanting to go into a random crevice and cavern while still having some structured linear level design with bespoke puzzles, actually reminding me quite a bit of LttP. As with BotW I think the Zelda team are keenly aware of the existing criticisms of this game and probably have hundreds of ideas they didn't have time or power to implement.
The more I really think about TOTK’s design, this is the most exciting part of it to me. It attempted merging linear design seamlessly with its open world in a way that BotW really didn’t even attempted at all outside of Hyrule Castle kinda.

Caves in particular were awesome. My favorite addition, and I can’t imagine the next entry lacking them. They added so much flavor to the world.
 
Ah yes, the famous release order of the Zelda series: The Toilet Princess (2002), followed by the Weed Wacker (2006).
Hey, that was just off the top of my head on a Monday... give me a break :coffee:but I think my breakdown of the general fan sentiment of each game at launch was on the money.

Jeff's review of TTP really left a mark on online fan perception of the game... and the tutorial of the game didn't do it any favours in terms of first impressions ... and Windwaker was Celda at a time when Nintendo being kiddy was a sick burn.
 
Any poll of this nature is ultimately just a snapshot and it’s weird to expect it to be some kind of definitive and immutable ranking. People constantly assess and reassess these games over time as their tastes change, as they replay them etc. Name any game on this list and you could come up with some dismissive argument for why people really like it and why it’s actually overrated.
 
Any poll of this nature is ultimately just a snapshot and it’s weird to expect it to be some kind of definitive and immutable ranking. People constantly assess and reassess these games over time as their tastes change, as they replay them etc. Name any game on this list and you could come up with some dismissive argument for why people really like it and why it’s actually overrated.
This is why when I did a Switch rpg vote thread earlier this year I framed it as a snapshot of what Fami rpg fans were thinking about in spring 2023, as I was curious to see where more recent titles (Triangle Strategy, Xenoblade 3, Octopath 2) landed compared to the usual frontrunners between DQXI and XB2 in previous threads. You could run exactly the same poll every few months and get different results every time due to a variance in exactly who takes part and what they were thinking on the day. My favourite Zelda is rarely a consistent thing, there’s half a dozen I think are just awesome and I could pick any on them on any given day.
 
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Any poll of this nature is ultimately just a snapshot and it’s weird to expect it to be some kind of definitive and immutable ranking. People constantly assess and reassess these games over time as their tastes change, as they replay them etc. Name any game on this list and you could come up with some dismissive argument for why people really like it and why it’s actually overrated.
There will never be a definitive immutable ranking of anything concerning personal preference... this is why things like review scores and sales are usually referenced in these threads... otherwise there is nothing in the way of hard numbers to go on and it's all just opinion like anything else.
 
There will never be a definitive immutable ranking of anything concerning personal preference... this is why things like review scores and sales are usually referenced in these threads... otherwise there is nothing in the way of hard numbers to go on and it's all just opinion like anything else.

Yeah, but even then reviews are just opinions too. And not everyone who buys a thing likes a thing, or even plays it enough to properly judge it as a whole, plus sales can also be the result of how well marketed something is rather than the quality of the thing itself.
 
There will never be a definitive immutable ranking of anything concerning personal preference... this is why things like review scores and sales are usually referenced in these threads... otherwise there is nothing in the way of hard numbers to go on and it's all just opinion like anything else.
I mean... isn't the entire point of threads like this to get opinions? I don't get this post.
 
Yeah, but even then reviews are just opinions too. And not everyone who buys a thing likes a thing, or even plays it enough to properly judge it as a whole.
Correct... but they provide review aggregate which is a number... just like sales. In a debate where there is no other metric beside personal preference these numbers are understandably used as some point of reference, whether or not you or I personally believe they hold a meaningful level of importance.

I mean... isn't the entire point of threads like this to get opinions? I don't get this post.
I mean yes... which is why I'm arguing it is my opinion that review scores and sales hold some sort of relevance in this discussion despite protests otherwise at different points in this thread.
 
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review scores and sales hold some sort of relevance in this discussion
At least for this thread, they shouldn't. All OP asked is to rank the 3D Zeldas in order of their preference, so that's all that should matter. Unless your personal preferences somehow involve review scores and sales numbers.
 
when a game like bioshock infinite gets a 93 MC I am not too concerned about the sacrosanct status of game reviews
 
At least for this thread, they shouldn't. All OP asked is to rank the 3D Zeldas in order of their preference, so that's all that should matter. Unless your personal preferences somehow involve review scores and sales numbers.
Disagree. All facets of these games are fair game in this discussion when determining their quality including their critical and consumer reception... which is actually the largest pool of opinions we have.

Unless we're going to start gate-keeping on-topic discussion in every other thread it's not worth protesting.

when a game like bioshock infinite gets a 93 MC I am not too concerned about the sacrosanct status of game reviews
How much we personally value such things is not so much the point (for the most part my own opinion of a game is all that's relevant to me), but so far as this discussion is concerned, sometimes game reviewers (or developers in TOTK's case) will come out and express things in ways that help illustrate a point... sales data is highly indicative that the developer's were able to strike a chord with consumers during said time... such things should not be overlooked or undervalued in these discussions... at times I've even considered them when helping to organize my own views on a game or the Zelda franchise at large.
 
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All facets of these games are fair game in this discussion when determining their quality including their critical and consumer reception...
Again, OP simply asked what your favorite Zelda game was. If you're the sort of person whose opinion is significantly affected by critical and consumer reception, then by all means, use them as points of discussions for your own opinion. Don't say things like:

this is why things like review scores and sales are usually referenced in these threads... otherwise there is nothing in the way of hard numbers to go on and it's all just opinion like anything else
As if "hard numbers" should matter in the discussion of personal preferences. Yes, it's all "just opinion", and that's fine.
 
Again, OP simply asked what your favorite Zelda game was. If you're the sort of person whose opinion is significantly affected by critical and consumer reception, then by all means, use them as points of discussions for your own opinion. Don't say things like:


As if "hard numbers" should matter in the discussion of personal preferences. Yes, it's all "just opinion", and that's fine.
I've already clarified my position in this.

Not to be rude but you're gate keeping and critical and consumer reception is all on-topic discussion because it pertains to the games in question. Whether or not you think they "should matter" is immaterial. They serve as a point of reference that can help people organize their own thoughts on said games and they are absolute fair-game to mention if somebody wants to use them to help illustrate their point... if they're not fair game, I'm sure mods will ban sales and game review scores talk from opinion threads about related games, but until that time comes this is not worth discussing further.
 
Not to be rude but you're gate keeping
I'm not. Your point is that aggregate review scores and sales should matter in this thread. My point is that they should not. You're free to disagree. That is, in and of itself, part of the discussion. I even said:

If you're the sort of person whose opinion is significantly affected by critical and consumer reception, then by all means, use them as points of discussions for your own opinion
 
I've already clarified my position in this.

Not to be rude but you're gate keeping and critical and consumer reception is all on-topic discussion because it pertains to the games in question. Whether or not you think they "should matter" is immaterial. They serve as a point of reference that can help people organize their own thoughts on said games and they are absolute fair-game to mention if somebody wants to use them to help illustrate their point... if they're not fair game, I'm sure mods will ban sales and game review scores talk from opinion threads about related games, but until that time comes this is not worth discussing further.
I haven't really seen critical consensus or sales used in ways that helped me understand a person's opinion on a game. People are free to bring it up but knowing that Tears of the Kingdom sold a gazillion units or that it got a 96 Metascore doesn't really illustrate its qualities. I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary though.
 
I'm not. Your point is that aggregate review scores and sales should matter in this thread. My point is that they should not. You're free to disagree. That is, in and of itself, part of the discussion.
Fair play on this point...

if you're the sort of person whose opinion is significantly affected by critical and consumer reception, then by all means, use them as points of discussions for your own opinion

but this implies that in order to make this argument I have to be significantly affected by critical and consumer reception when I stated the opposite... my point is simply that people should be able to discuss these things without interference because they are relevant when we look at games historically and the overall impact that they had. I've already heard the argument why said things are not relevant several times in this thread and this is my counter argument.

I haven't really seen critical consensus or sales used in ways that helped me understand a person's opinion on a game. People are free to bring it up but knowing that Tears of the Kingdom sold a gazillion units or that it got a 96 Metascore doesn't really illustrate its qualities. I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary though.

See my post above.... this isn't really about my argument as much as it is an argument on behalf people choosing to make this argument.

Having said that, I think it says something when a game puts up the fastest sales in franchise history, the most perfect scores in gaming history, was being praised beyond anything I've ever witnessed from fellow devs, not to mention is winning this poll handily:sneaky:

zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-ascend-bestseller.gif
 
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my point is simply that people should be able to discuss these things without interference
I'm not interfering, I'm disagreeing. There's a difference. If someone is referring to review scores to espouse the quality of a game, I will absolutely argue against it, the same way I have argued against numerical scores for media my entire life.

I've already heard the argument why said things are not relevant
I've also disagreed with those.

this isn't really about my argument as much as it is an argument on behalf people choosing to make this argument
Then maybe stop making it? Those people can talk for themselves. I'm asking you directly now: how did the review scores and sales influence your opinion of Tears of the Kingdom?
 
I'm not interfering, I'm disagreeing. There's a difference. If someone is referring to review scores to espouse the quality of a game, I will absolutely argue against it, the same way I have argued against numerical scores for media my entire life.


I've also disagreed with those.


Then maybe stop making it? Those people can talk for themselves. I'm asking you directly now: how did the review scores and sales influence your opinion of Tears of the Kingdom?
Why would I stop making the argument? I've already explained that critical and consumer reception serve as a point of reference that can help people organize their own thoughts on said games and they are absolutely fair-game to mention if somebody wants to use them to help illustrate their point.

For instance, I just explained that I think it says something when a game puts up the fastest sales in franchise history, the most perfect scores in gaming history, was being praised beyond anything I've ever witnessed from fellow devs, not to mention is winning this poll handily. It all falls in line with the fact that I agree... TOTK is pinnacle of the Zelda franchise.
 
Why would I stop making the argument?
Because as you said "it is an argument on behalf people choosing to make this argument" and not your own. In order to make things clearer, speak for your own, and let those people speak their own. It is simply a bid for clarity.

It all falls in line with the fact that I agree... TOTK is pinnacle of the Zelda franchise
Okay, but do the commercial performance and critical acclaim affect your opinion of Tears of the Kingdom? Is TotK your favorite 3D Zelda because of the high scores and sales?
 
Hey, that was just off the top of my head on a Monday... give me a break :coffee:but I think my breakdown of the general fan sentiment of each game at launch was on the money.

Jeff's review of TTP really left a mark on online fan perception of the game... and the tutorial of the game didn't do it any favours in terms of first impressions ... and Windwaker was Celda at a time when Nintendo being kiddy was a sick burn.
Auh yes, the famously agreeable and not controversial at all 8.8 Twilight Princess review that Zelda fan's really took in earnest and didn't in anyway at all make an embarrassment of themselves by throwing big online tantrums for weeks.
 
Because as you said "it is an argument on behalf people choosing to make this argument" and not your own. In order to make things clearer, speak for your own, and let those people speak their own. It is simply a bid for clarity.
How about I'll post about what I want to post about and you do you? This is getting weird.
Okay, but do the commercial performance and critical acclaim affect your opinion of Tears of the Kingdom? Is TotK your favorite 3D Zelda because of the high scores and sales?
In some ways, yes. For instance, the praise developers gave the game helped me put into perspective just how special the game is from a technical standpoint. Certain reviews helped me articulate things I loved about the game but had yet to acknowledge or even think about. Sales have demonstrated that Nintendo have reached a point with the franchise that is very much in tune with what fans (including myself) want which pleases me as this is the direction I'd like to see gaming move. In short, Nintendo knocking it out of the park in every way with TOTK helped me further enjoy the celebration of this release.
 
How about I'll post about what I want to post about and you do you?
I'm also posting about what I want. In this case, I just want you to be clear, because I feel like your point has been muddled.

For instance, the praise developers gave the game helped me put into perspective just how special the game is from a technical standpoint. Certain reviews helped me articulate things I loved about the game but had yet to acknowledge or even think about.
I definitely agree that the praise from developers have given us more insight and appreciation for the marvels of TotK's programming. However it must be emphasized that you're talking about the content of the reviews, not the review scores. So those "hard numbers" you've said are relevant... aren't actually relevant to your opinion?

Nintendo knocking it out of the park in every way with TOTK helped me further enjoy the celebration of this release
Just for clarification, part of the reason you would say TotK is your favorite 3D Zelda is because you love the acclaim and popularity surrounding the title? Like getting swept up in the wave of positivity and enthusiasm? Because that would be more understandable.
 
BOTW and TOTK are the best games I have played, so those go first.
Then Ocarina and Twilight Princess.
Then the other three, which I love but all have more flaws.
 
OK now change the poll. Two choices for #1 and #2 game. See what that does.
 
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I'm also posting about what I want. In this case, I just want you to be clear, because I feel like your point has been muddled.


I definitely agree that the praise from developers have given us more insight and appreciation for the marvels of TotK's programming. However it must be emphasized that you're talking about the content of the reviews, not the review scores. So those "hard numbers" you've said are relevant... aren't actually relevant to your opinion?


Just for clarification, part of the reason you would say TotK is your favorite 3D Zelda is because you love the acclaim and popularity surrounding the title? Like getting swept up in the wave of positivity and enthusiasm? Because that would be more understandable.
I've already answered all of the questions you've asked me here multiple times in this thread if you would take the time to read my words more carefully.

I've also tried to politely dismiss your numerous attempts at provocation to prove... whatever it is you're attempting to prove here.

Let's not forget,

our first interaction in this thread was you @ing me and calling me a fanboy (of what even?),

so forgive me if I don't think whatever this is is being done in good faith.
 
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Having said that, I think it says something when a game puts up the fastest sales in franchise history, the most perfect scores in gaming history, was being praised beyond anything I've ever witnessed from fellow devs, not to mention is winning this poll handily:sneaky:
barok-van-zieks-ace-attorney.gif


Kreese 2 minutes ago: "You're gatekeeping by saying that metacritic scores and sales shouldn't be considered in this discussion!"

Kreese 2 minutes later: "By the way, did I mention it's basically objective fact that Tears of the Kingdom is the best one :sneaky: "
 
TP is my favorite. OoT/MM/BotW/TotK are all sort of interchangable and in a tier below (though I probably think OoT>TotK>MM>BotW). Then Skyward Sword. Then Wind Waker.

I like all of them a lot, though SS is very flawed and Wind Waker would have been better if it just focused on sailing-based exploration.
 
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It's not an accusation, it's just I've seen the trend of immediately proclaiming the latest entry to be the greatest one happen repeatedly with multiple franchises. Within Zelda I've seen the sentiment occur for every entry since Twilight Princess. Sure every entry is someone's favorite, but when I see a poll asking "which game is the best one?" and the overwhelming consensus is "the new one!!!!" I''m gonna be skeptical that the new car smell isn't skewing opinions.

For my thoughts on the game, I've posted them in this thread already. I think it makes a strong first impression but doesn't do enough new compared to BOTW.
That simply not true. It never happened with TWW, TP or SS at the same level as BotW/TotK.

Before BotW, OoT was the best Zelda game according to “popular internet opinion”.

In fact, SS ranked low in these kind of lists since release, unfortunately.
 
Kreese 2 minutes ago: "You're gatekeeping by saying that metacritic scores and sales shouldn't be considered in this discussion!"

Kreese 2 minutes later: "By the way, did I mention it's basically objective fact that Tears of the Kingdom is the best one :sneaky: "
Nowhere was this said though... I think you're putting words in my mouth by exaggerating because we've had unpleasant exchanges in other threads and you have a dog in this one.
 
Nowhere was this said though
What do you think you're implying when you argue that scores and sales matter in a thread about opinions, then gloat about Tears of the Kingdom's scores and sales? It can't even be about the general opinion, because this is a very specified board (which you even mentioned earlier).
 
I've already answered all of the questions you've asked me here multiple times in this thread
Your answers were unclear and unsatisfactory. Which is why I reworded my question in an attempt to be more direct. Telling me to “read more carefully” isn’t helping, because I cannot discern what you mean.

You’ve said that reviews are a useful point of reference, but you have not explained why review scores are relevant to this discourse. I am emphasizing scores here because you said the “hard numbers” were important. Related to that, you have also not elucidated how TotK’s great sales have improved your enjoyment of TotK, aside from they “helped you enjoy the celebration of this release.” I even put forth the possible reasoning behind that statement, hoping you would clarify if that was indeed the case.

I've also tried to politely dismiss your numerous attempts at provocation to prove... whatever it is you're attempting to prove here
I’ve also tried to politely figure out what you’re even saying. That is literally all I’m doing. I’m not trying to “prove” anything.

you @ing me and calling me a fanboy (of what even?)
I apologize for the wording, but I do think the way you praise TotK can be somewhat overbearing. You even said “hard numbers” prove TotK is “superior” to other 3D titles. Surely you can see why that would be aggravating in an opinion-based thread. Should the people who like OoT or Twilight Princess more care that TotK has the higher Metacritic?

so forgive me if I don't think whatever this is is being done in good faith
I am completely acting in good faith. I’ve tried to be as transparent as possible.

If you don’t want to talk, then we can stop talking.
 
What do you think you're implying when you argue that scores and sales matter in a thread about opinions, then gloat about Tears of the Kingdom's scores and sales? It can't even be about the general opinion, because this is a very specified board (which you even mentioned earlier).
I never implied anything was basically an objective fact as you said though... I'm simply stating that TOTK's consumer, developer. and critical reception all align with my own personal view about how special this game is as do the results of the poll on this board.

Attempting to gate-keep anybody from these talking points is nonsense when in truth they're all very relevant to the subject matter at hand.
 
I never implied anything was basically an objective fact
Then what does this mean:
There will never be a definitive immutable ranking of anything concerning personal preference... this is why things like review scores and sales are usually referenced in these threads... otherwise there is nothing in the way of hard numbers to go on and it's all just opinion like anything else.

Like, that definitely does not read the same as:
I'm simply stating that TOTK's consumer, developer. and critical reception all align with my own personal view about how special this game is as do the results of the poll on this board
 
I never implied anything was basically an objective fact as you said though... I'm simply stating that TOTK's consumer, developer. and critical reception all align with my own personal view about how special this game is as do the results of the poll on this board.
Let's be real here, you know exactly what you are implying when you mention that over, and over, and over again. In this same thread you've mentioned that this is a very specific board with specialized taste and that you trust this board's taste more than others. This thread is also very specifically about the taste of the members here.

Given that you've acknowledged that this board is a unique data point that "knows more about the series" or whatever, there would be no reason to keep mentioning sales and critics. And yet here we are.

This is true of any discussion of opinions relating to a franchise, not just Tears. It doesn't add anything to the discussion to hyperfixate on sales and popularity and it always seems silly.
 
Then what does this mean:


Like, that definitely does not read the same as:
I was stating that numbers are justifiably referenced in threads like this and likely always will be because pretty much everything else is based on personal opinion. In order to place these games historically some people like the added context of customer and consumer reception. If you want to spin that into me claiming TOTK's superiority became objective fact because of said reception then you're going to fighting a losing argument as long as you choose to continue pursuing this.

Let's be real here, you know exactly what you are implying when you mention that over, and over, and over again. In this same thread you've mentioned that this is a very specific board with specialized taste and that you trust this board's taste more than others. This thread is also very specifically about the taste of the members here.

Given that you've acknowledged that this board is a unique data point that "knows more about the series" or whatever, there would be no reason to keep mentioning sales and critics. And yet here we are.

This is true of any discussion of opinions relating to a franchise, not just Tears. It doesn't add anything to the discussion to hyperfixate on sales and popularity and it always seems silly.
Let's be real here, people often say things like let's be real here before they try to put words in peoples mouths as you're continuing to attempt to do right now because without it you have no argument... that doesn't change the fact that that's not what I said or implied though.
 
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