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StarTopic Donkey Kong Community |ST| No Country For Old Kongs

TheSpaceBetween said:
And of course people bitching about a 2d game being full price.
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just like DK tropical freeze... on the Wii U.

Kinda crazy how the outlook of the game chanced over time, since when it was release it was looked as a shitty 2D platformer made for small baby's and a game that doesn't have much to offer.

here's a review from gamespot: If the regular levels were as inventive as the boss battles, then Tropical Freeze would be a surefire hit, or at least a game that demands more of your attention. No matter how much I was looking forward to seeing DK in HD, it's difficult to maintain that enthusiasm when the end product plays it so safe: even the visuals fail to make an impact. They're nice enough, but like the level design, the environments are mostly bland.

I'm quite happy seeing the public and critical outlook of the game chance, to one of upmost positivity and viewing the game as one of the best 2D platformer to date.
 
Steve said:
just like DK tropical freeze... on the Wii U.

Kinda crazy how the outlook of the game chanced over time, since when it was release it was looked as a shitty 2D platformer made for small baby's and a game that doesn't have much to offer.

here's a review from gamespot: If the regular levels were as inventive as the boss battles, then Tropical Freeze would be a surefire hit, or at least a game that demands more of your attention. No matter how much I was looking forward to seeing DK in HD, it's difficult to maintain that enthusiasm when the end product plays it so safe: even the visuals fail to make an impact. They're nice enough, but like the level design, the environments are mostly bland.

I'm quite happy seeing the public and critical outlook of the game chance, to one of upmost positivity and viewing the game as one of the best 2D platformer to date.
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Even GameSpot themselves did a complete 180 on the game. I belive they gave the Switch version a 9.
 
Steve said:
just like DK tropical freeze... on the Wii U.

Kinda crazy how the outlook of the game chanced over time, since when it was release it was looked as a shitty 2D platformer made for small baby's and a game that doesn't have much to offer.

here's a review from gamespot: If the regular levels were as inventive as the boss battles, then Tropical Freeze would be a surefire hit, or at least a game that demands more of your attention. No matter how much I was looking forward to seeing DK in HD, it's difficult to maintain that enthusiasm when the end product plays it so safe: even the visuals fail to make an impact. They're nice enough, but like the level design, the environments are mostly bland.

I'm quite happy seeing the public and critical outlook of the game chance, to one of upmost positivity and viewing the game as one of the best 2D platformer to date.
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The gamespot review was one of the most bogus ass reviews of all time.
 
Yeah, the fan and critical reception of DK Tropical Freeze was really unfortunate, A great game got much undeserved indifference and hatred. In a way I believe that's part of the reason Nintendo haven't been pushing DK in the last decade.

At this point I'm accepting even a DK mobile gacha, just give me something. (Preferably a platformer)
 
Professor Chops said:
If it's 2D, I'm not looking forward to hearing Nintendo YouTubers like Arlo prattle on about how the game is a "waste" because 2D platformers are inherently lesser games.
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Also the fact that the 2D DK game is from the same team that made 3D Mario and people will be asking why they made 2D DK and not that.
 
Retro DKC would not convert to 3D well at all because the controls mix with turning like oil and water, but I'm of the belief that you will always lose more than you gain when directly converting a 2D platformer into 3D.

3D is inherently worse for platforming because of the huge loss in precision for jumping, it's why historically the actual platforming usually takes a backseat in 3D platformers and they all turned into shooters and beat em ups in the 2000's, why so many of them had and continue to have camera issues, and why the more linear ones are often notably slow compared to their 2D counterparts.

You need to gain a lot from more exploratory environments and/or freeform parkour/jungle gym movement for it to be worth it. Which is why I would want a 3D Donkey Kong to be as different from DKC as Mario 64 was from Mario World. ...And why I don't particularly care if they ever make one, as a fan of DKC.

Besides, Nintendo's 3D Donkey Kong would be like "we heard you liked Tropical Freeze, here's over 100 bonus rooms that all have the exact same music, aesthetics, and reward; also this is where all the platforming is now. We built these big open environments for you to run around in looking for bonus rooms though, please enjoy our soundtrack that consists mostly of dynamic percussion dependent on Donkey Kong's speed and elevation." And it would be good, but pretty bloated, and with noticeably watered down level design compared to the Country games. And it would review really well and set sales records so that fans of any other game in the series suddenly found themselves completely outnumbered by people who only played this one and loved DK's new dinosaur animal buddy, Marge the Majungasaurus.
 
I would love seeing DK at the next Direct SO MUCH, but I still think it doesn’t make a lot of sense. If, at one point, Switch 2 was planned to launch this fall, and if it was delayed for software reasons as many say, then the delay will have taken every game with it, be it cross gen or next gen only.

I actually believe DK is a cross gen title to take advantage of the huge Switch 1 user base. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to delay a console to next year for a better launch line up but then keep a substantial title for this year.
 
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@Stilt Village is that a Kirby and the Forgotten Land critique, a Super Mario Odyssey take, a Pikmin 4 react or all of the above? 🧐

@MusicProposition I completely follow your logic but I think if there are significant crossgen games the answer to why they'd delay the console for a better launch line up but keep a substantial title for this year is likely the same reason we may see Super Mario Party or another heavy and likely crossgen game this holiday, basically to give the Switch as strong a sendoff holiday as possible whilst sacrificing the least system selling games. I adore DK but I don't believe a 2D game at least would significantly move consoles (and maybe not even a 3D one) (and I wish 2D games were the most popular type of game there is.
 
I'd be down for a re-imagination of DK in 3D.

As much as I adore it, DK64 felt more like a very well-done Banjo-Kazooie mod than a ground-up effort to truly reinvent DK as a 3D platformer.

Let me see the sunshine pouring between lush, tropical canopies. Let me wander around the jungle in a soft, enveloping rain. Throw me head-first into the dark and mysterious mines. And most importantly, give me that sweet, sweet atmospheric David Wise soundtrack. (Sorry Grant.)
 
I’m overthinking it I know, but they just added Donkey Kong NES Missions and Rewards…could it perhaps mean anything?

I’d kinda love if they just kept pumping out the DK Missions and Rewards and I can finally be a SNES Dixie Kong and my mind will be at peace.
 
They spent the past few months giving us SNES icons (Super Mario World, A Link to the Past, etc.) only to break the trend by giving us NES Donkey Kong icons instead of Donkey Kong Country icons. Christ.
 
FutureFunkPepsi said:
I’m overthinking it I know, but they just added Donkey Kong NES Missions and Rewards…could it perhaps mean anything?

I’d kinda love if they just kept pumping out the DK Missions and Rewards and I can finally be a SNES Dixie Kong and my mind will be at peace.
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It means they are promoting the game that's a spiritual successor to Arcade Donkey Kong.

Seriously though, I doubt it means much either way. I doubt this means no to either Country icons later down the line or a Country styled game. I also doubt this means DK for sure next direct. I mean there were F-Zero X icons a while back, yet the next game was SNES themed and also happened like a year later.
I'd imagine the most this means is they're gonna do a few games for each NSO console and kinda cycle that around. Probably one more NES game after this, then they'll probably do 2 N64 games outside of Mario, Zelda and DK, and then do 2 GB/C games outside of those as well (my bet is on Kirby and Wario Land there).
 
Nabbit said:
@Stilt Village is that a Kirby and the Forgotten Land critique, a Super Mario Odyssey take, a Pikmin 4 react or all of the above? 🧐
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Most of the above. Despite lambasting turning 2D platformers 3D in that post, I actually consider Forgotten Land to be the exception, and the best Kirby game by some distance. The transition felt so natural that even though I knew it intellectually, my brain couldn't actually picture Return to Dream Land and its sequels not having been exactly like this.

But that's a weird case of Kirby never really being much of a platformer in the first place, certainly not a fast or precise one, but benefiting hugely from more exploratory level design and greater combat possibilities. I loved Planet Robobot, but it felt so limiting to go back to its mashy copy abilities and 2D levels after this. Forgotten Land felt like a series that was always meant to be in 3D as much as Banjo-Kazooie was, absolutely crazy situation.

Plus it's like the only big early 2010s-style platformer with 40+ mostly visually/mechanically/musically unique levels that we got on Switch. A type of game I absolutely love but which pretty much died out after Tropical Freeze. I don't expect Nintendo to put out another Tropical Freeze on their first try, but at this point I'd be overjoyed with something as good as Forgotten Land!

All that aside, Kirby isn't made by Nintendo at all. The third game I was nebulously referencing was of course Breath of the Wild.
 
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat sequel, but instead of DK punching tf out of other animals he kicks tf out of them.

Grid-Art-20240604-002736216.jpg
 
Stilt Village said:
Retro DKC would not convert to 3D well at all because the controls mix with turning like oil and water, but I'm of the belief that you will always lose more than you gain when directly converting a 2D platformer into 3D.
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I'll have to disagree here. Retro's DKC games are already "3D" in a sense. I think it's movement would translate pretty well into 360° control.
GIF-20240604-020654-537.gif

And the weighty-ness would be a great differentiater from Mario's more snappy gameplay in his 3D games. Though me saying this isn't me also saying that movement in a 3D DK game couldn't be something else entirely different and still turn out great.
 
Drybones2015 said:
I'll have to disagree here. Retro's DKC games are already "3D" in a sense. I think it's movement would translate pretty well into 360° control.
GIF-20240604-020654-537.gif

And the weighty-ness would be a great differentiater from Mario's more snappy gameplay in his 3D games. Though me saying this isn't me also saying that movement in a 3D DK game couldn't be something else entirely different and still turn out great.
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The thing is that the movement revolves entirely around maintaining forwards momentum in a really limited fashion. You roll jump to gain speed and then bounce off of things as long as you can to keep going, but this only works in one direction and is mostly horizontal. It's already very limiting even for a sidescroller.

This is why Tropical Freeze, which builds its levels to facilitate a flow where you never have to stop moving, doesn't really do vertical levels or ones that change direction a lot like DKC2's beehives or brambles. DKC2 was also designed like this, but had no weighty physics or instant speed burst button, so it could send you any which way on a dime without breaking your flow. Retro DK, oddly, has a weight that becomes more cumbersome and uncontrollable without momentum, which I think turns some people off the games because the way you're actually supposed to play them is unintuitive.

While the roll jump mechanics themselves would translate fine to 3D, I think the gameplay they're built to facilitate just wouldn't work in a game where you have to actually turn. You wouldn't be able to keep your momentum for any length of time without adding some weird thing to give you air drifting with Diddy's jetpack or something, at which point I think you have a game that's closest to... Sonic Adventure maybe? Huh. I kind of want to see what this would be like now.

What I would actually expect though is a similar roll, but functioning more like a Mario 64 long jump than the centralizing factor it was in Retro's games. Just one piece of a more flexible moveset, probably closer to Jungle Beat than any of the other games.
 
Stilt Village said:
The thing is that the movement revolves entirely around maintaining forwards momentum in a really limited fashion. You roll jump to gain speed and then bounce off of things as long as you can to keep going, but this only works in one direction and is mostly horizontal. It's already very limiting even for a sidescroller.

This is why Tropical Freeze, which builds its levels to facilitate a flow where you never have to stop moving, doesn't really do vertical levels or ones that change direction a lot like DKC2's beehives or brambles. DKC2 was also designed like this, but had no weighty physics or instant speed burst button, so it could send you any which way on a dime without breaking your flow. Retro DK, oddly, has a weight that becomes more cumbersome and uncontrollable without momentum, which I think turns some people off the games because the way you're actually supposed to play them is unintuitive.

While the roll jump mechanics themselves would translate fine to 3D, I think the gameplay they're built to facilitate just wouldn't work in a game where you have to actually turn. You wouldn't be able to keep your momentum for any length of time without adding some weird thing to give you air drifting with Diddy's jetpack or something, at which point I think you have a game that's closest to... Sonic Adventure maybe? Huh. I kind of want to see what this would be like now.

What I would actually expect though is a similar roll, but functioning more like a Mario 64 long jump than the centralizing factor it was in Retro's games. Just one piece of a more flexible moveset, probably closer to Jungle Beat than any of the other games.
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There's plenty of vertical sections in both Returns and Tropical Freeze and even verticality in a lot of the horizontal progression. My point in the gif was to show that even with strong momentum, DK still basically stops on a dime and is able to go in a different direction with ease. Now, obviously the controls would need to be tweaked because two directional inputs from a completely different perspective doesn't work for moving in a fully 3D space. And more animations would clearly need to be created because they only needed DK to do a 180° turn. Tropical Freeze isn't a 3D platformer, so there's going to being missing pieces to what's already there in order to make it work.
 
Stilt Village said:
Retro DKC would not convert to 3D well at all because the controls mix with turning like oil and water, but I'm of the belief that you will always lose more than you gain when directly converting a 2D platformer into 3D.

3D is inherently worse for platforming because of the huge loss in precision for jumping, it's why historically the actual platforming usually takes a backseat in 3D platformers and they all turned into shooters and beat em ups in the 2000's, why so many of them had and continue to have camera issues, and why the more linear ones are often notably slow compared to their 2D counterparts.

You need to gain a lot from more exploratory environments and/or freeform parkour/jungle gym movement for it to be worth it. Which is why I would want a 3D Donkey Kong to be as different from DKC as Mario 64 was from Mario World. ...And why I don't particularly care if they ever make one, as a fan of DKC.

Besides, Nintendo's 3D Donkey Kong would be like "we heard you liked Tropical Freeze, here's over 100 bonus rooms that all have the exact same music, aesthetics, and reward; also this is where all the platforming is now. We built these big open environments for you to run around in looking for bonus rooms though, please enjoy our soundtrack that consists mostly of dynamic percussion dependent on Donkey Kong's speed and elevation." And it would be good, but pretty bloated, and with noticeably watered down level design compared to the Country games. And it would review really well and set sales records so that fans of any other game in the series suddenly found themselves completely outnumbered by people who only played this one and loved DK's new dinosaur animal buddy, Marge the Majungasaurus.
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Super Mario 3D World would be a nice blue print, to serve as a basis, if one day Nintendo decided to do a 3D Donkey kong game.
 
Giancarlo said:
Super Mario 3D World would be a nice blue print, to serve as a basis, if one day Nintendo decided to do a 3D Donkey kong game.
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That would be fun.
3D World have 5 playable characters. DK/DD/DX/CK would probably be the main playable Kongs with FK as that game's Rosalina. Thought it'd be great if they added the rest of the DK64 crew. I mean, if Mario Wonder can have 8 different characters, why not this?.
 
It’s really a shame we will probably not get another Mario game like 3D World for a very long time, if ever. It’s still my favorite 3D Mario.
 
Mekanos said:
It’s really a shame we will probably not get another Mario game like 3D World for a very long time, if ever. It’s still my favorite 3D Mario.
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Yeah.. It's by far my favorite 3D Mario as well, and I'm not particularly fond of the idea of assigning its gameplay style to Donkey Kong or any other franchise because, as I mentioned with traditional 2D sidescroller DKC games, I like it because it's Mario too! -- I have my copy signed by Martinet even.

Bowser's Fury direction actually worries me that can stray me further away of 3D Mario
 
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I think there's still so much interesting ground that 2D can cover that I'd be perfectly happy to see the series go back to it. Given just how moody and atmospheric the SNES trilogy was, seeing that with modern hardware in a Donkey Kong title would make it stand out so much even among Nintendo's plaformers. As nuts as it sounds, give me a new entry that's DKC by way of the Ori games.
 
I'm looking forward for the next Direct regardless, as someone that won't be upgrading for the next system right away, I want some justification to keep playing it through 2025 and maybe even beyond...

Hopefully DK is part of that.
 
Head of Marketing and Sales:
"Sir, please. The game is a decade old. We've been discounting it at 30% for five years straight. The "Premium IP" tax has already butchered the game's max sales potential. It's not like there was significant new content to warrent such a price spike anyway. Can we PLEASE start doing Nintendo Selects..."

Furukawa:
"Hhmmm...
Best I can do is 3% more."

Screenshot-20240606-152239-Samsung-Internet.jpg
 
Am I the only one who would love for Nintendo to release DKC 1-3 on a cartridge, so that we could own these games and play them? After releasing these 3 games, they then announce a new Donkey Kong game. One can dream....

Maybe they're saving a new game for Switch 2?
 
I would take literally anything at this point. They could dump DK64 on a Switch cartridge, charge $60 for it, and I would probably still buy it. Nintendo's mismanagement of the Donkey Kong brand has been infuriating. I still can't believe we're approaching 11 years without a new game.
 
Donkey Kong has never really had first-party themed hardware. There were a few bundles were they'd throw his game in with a console (green if they had it) and a couple of DK themed handhelds and a controller that were sweepstakes only (all now very rare and expensive). The only actual retail product he's ever really gotten that looks DK themed if you glanced at it was the DK bongos... which was basically a toy that only worked on 4 games (only 1 game if we're talking about being worthwhile). I'd be more content with third-party offerings if they weren't a handful of cheap novelties with limited functionality.

Was hoping this would be different with the next DK game but the longer we've had to wait the more I'm starting to realize the timing might not bear fruit. If it's for Switch, then why make another series-themed console or controller at this stage. They've already announced its successor and we'll be hearing about it and possibly playing it within a year's time. If the new game is on Switch 2 then it would be too early for Nintendo to be thinking about limited editions. A best they would do something like they did in 2017, a bundle with a standard plain console and maybe plain yellow and brown New Joycons (that they'd also sell separately with no DK branding). It would also be awesome if we could get amiibo figures like more niche series get but I'm not holding my breath on that.

Is this something anyone else is interested in or is it just a "me" thing?
 
Unfortunately I'm worried that the longer it takes, the more it will take to win me over when we finally do get the new game. Like, this is gonna have to be literally the best DK game, 2D or 3D, to make it worth waiting 11/12/13+ years. Is that unfair to the developers? Maybe, but then I say it's unfair for making me wait so long for another game for no good reason lmao.
 
Dante Kong said:
Unfortunately I'm worried that the longer it takes, the more it will take to win me over when we finally do get the new game. Like, this is gonna have to be literally the best DK game, 2D or 3D, to make it worth waiting 11/12/13+ years. Is that unfair to the developers? Maybe, but then I say it's unfair for making me wait so long for another game for no good reason lmao.
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Here's the thing for me. I've been waiting for that new DK game from the Odyssey team since May of 2021, which meant that I didn't have to wait as long as a lot of others who were waiting for a decade at this point. Also, I had a bunch of games in the Donkey Kong series that I never played before which made the wait a bit better. With all of that said, if Nintendo can make a new game that plays like the Country games and less like Jungle Beat (a game that I don't dislike, but has a gameplay style I don't prefer,) along with adding a fair amount of the characters from the Rare era like more Animal Buddies and K Rool, that would make up for the decade long wait.
 
I’ll honestly be happy if the new DK game is “just” good. More than the game’s quality I want the series to exist again in a meaningful capacity.
 
I've come to the record on saying that DKC Returns right now on Switch and nothing else would feel very deflating either way, as a sign of defeat.. but besides including the 3DS content, I feel the only way they could win me over with a port this late, would be implementing the (allegedly) planned K. Rool boss fight they had for the Tropical Freeze port, now that his Smash inclusion already happened.. if that was indeed the roadblock before. That would make me mildly excited and I would end buying it!

Thinking about it, would be even more fitting having him around the events of DKC Returns, rather than Tropical Freeze's; so they can build some kind of lore for the next main entry with Kremlings as the main antagonistic force again.

Not getting my hopes up though... But still wishing we can get an original game on Switch before the next system arrives. Or even maybe after it's already in the market, who knows? It's not like they'll completely drop the Switch once the next console is out.. this is not the Wii U.
 
HotelSyrup said:
Nah
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For me personally, Super Mario World is the best 2d Mario Game, but I like DKC2 much more and I really think it's the better game. The atmosphere of the dkc series is just something that the 2d mario games could never capture, at least for me. Also I love the soundtrack of dkc and the challenging difficulty! I do have to say that dkc 1 is pretty basic, while dkc2 was peak and dkc3 is great which I do also enjoy more than super Mario world.
 
I don't want to sound dramatic, but like, if the game isn't announced tomorrow, it either doesn't exist or is being saved for the Switch 2. Either way, opening the Donkey Kong Country theme park expansion without having anything on store shelves for families to buy would certainly be a choice.
 
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