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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Can someone remind me if the Switch itself is Nintendo gonna Nintendo or not, I'm not up to speed

I remember the notion of Nintendo releasing an HD handheld outperforming the 360/PS3 being a scoffed at
"Nintendo gonna Nintendo" is not a monolith. Examples of Switch related "Because Nintendo" that I recall:

"Hybrid is stupid, but Nintendo has to make a dumb gimmick when all I want is a powerful console to play Nintendo games"

"Cartridges, lol"

"300 bucks, Nintendo gouging us, take out the HD rumble and give me 250"

"Nintendo skipping out on the TX2 to save money, smh"

"It's not going to be more powerful than the Wii U"
 
I saw that announcement and must give the Steamdeck credit.
These PC hardware manufacturers are going to over saturate the market with portable gaming PC's and Vavle are at least letting a breath of time go by between models.
Valve will always win because their brand power is massive and positive. They are playing it slow instead of trying to run before they can walk.
 
Even with that small bezels it‘s too big.
Gives more credence to 8 inches being a round up from the 7.91 we've heard before. Same body height as OG and OLED Switch with very small bezels. They could even go very slightly taller and just ignore the fact that OG joycons wouldn't quite align, but still use a compatible rail.
 
An 8in screen would be a dream coming true. I love big screens. It also means it can have a bigger battery and be better at dissipating heat if it's bigger than Switch 1 due to the increased surface area.
 
"Nintendo gonna Nintendo" is not a monolith. Examples of Switch related "Because Nintendo" that I recall:

"Hybrid is stupid, but Nintendo has to make a dumb gimmick when all I want is a powerful console to play Nintendo games"

"Cartridges, lol"

"300 bucks, Nintendo gouging us, take out the HD rumble and give me 250"

"Nintendo skipping out on the TX2 to save money, smh"

"It's not going to be more powerful than the Wii U"
NeoGAF flashbacks
 
The less we talk about NeoGAF, the better. There is still quality content (and members) to find there but on average, the discourse is poor with way too many inexact posts claiming to say the truth, ranging from trolling to outright disinformation.
 
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Gives more credence to 8 inches being a round up from the 7.91 we've heard before. Same body height as OG and OLED Switch with very small bezels. They could even go very slightly taller and just ignore the fact that OG joycons wouldn't quite align, but still use a compatible rail.
The graph suggests otherwise even with small bezels it‘s higher, which probably will be a bit smaller than from the OLED but still quite existent. And I don’t get why anyone would want to use OG Joy-Cons for Handheld.
 
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The least we talk about NeoGAF, the better. There is still quality content (and members) to find there but on average, the discourse is poor with way too many inexact posts claiming to say the truth, ranging from trolling to outright disinformation.
To be fair to NeoGAF and gaming-age forums before it, it was maybe a bit of the wild west, but it was better than what was left of Usenet or IGN or any of the commercially backed forums at the time. For a while, the harsh moderation was more of a feature than a bug, but that changed over time.

And to also be fair, we are total shits some of the time.
 
To be fair to NeoGAF and gaming-age forums before it, it was maybe a bit of the wild west, but it was better than what was left of Usenet or IGN or any of the commercially backed forums at the time. For a while, the harsh moderation was more of a feature than a bug, but that changed over time.

And to also be fair, we are total shits some of the time.
The old moderation team around bishoptl was certainly the biggest asset of the forum together with the presence of insiders and the presence of Evilore himself.

That trifecta was NeoGAF. And I am glad to have browsed that website while it was at the top.
 
Was the shipping data disussed outside this thread? I follow pretty religiously, not somehow missed the December shipping data.
To my knowledge no December data has showed up yet. He was probably thinking of November data (2-month lag). We can expect December data in a few weeks.
 
Not jumping at either of you, just adding some context. If you factor in "Pro" style revisions, yes, this happens all the time.

Xbox One: 1.3 TFLOPS
Xbox One X: 6 TFLOPS
Xbox Series S: 4 TFLOPS

PS4: 500GB storage
PS4 Pro: 1TB storage
PS5: 825 GB of storage

DS: 3" TFT screen
DSi XL: 4.2" IPS screen
3DS: 3.53" TN screen*

The era of "Pro" revisions is arguably pretty short, but "successor is better than the old base model, but behind relative to the Pro revision" is pretty common?

It makes sense, unfortunately. A "Pro" revision keeps the base technology the same, it has to. That base technology will have become cheaper over the lifetime of the console. That offers a chance to offer "more of the same".

A successor console uses newer technology as a base, which is more costly than the now quite aged tech in the Pro. The Series S is a smaller GPU than the One X, but it's got RT and mesh shaders and other RDNA2 goodies. The PS5 has less storage than PS4 Pro, but it's an SSD. The 3DS offers higher resolution and glasses free 3D, but on a smaller, shittier LCD screen than the DSi XL.

I want an OLED as much as the next person**, but a larger, higher resolution, higher pixel density LCD would be just about par for the course.

*occasional IPS screens in the lottery
**or more, honestly, considering how quickly I pounced on a Steam Deck the instant they offered an OLED model.

I hear you, but I think we’re jumping through hoops to justify it as par or precedent.

Acting like OLED is in the same category as 3D as the other poster did is just something I fundamentally disagree on, both in its function and perceived value. OLED is like moving from a tube to Plasma to LCD. Maybe TN to IPS is a little in that space, but far less advertised. It’s undeniable that OLED is pivoting in the TV place from flagship entry to somewhat affordable standard. Computer monitors are adopting it finally, and it’s no coincidence that Nintendo decided to give it a shot recently.

Fair point that recent Pro systems in some ways stand above their Edit: predecessors successors but I don’t see screen technology the same as storage or Flops - maybe Nintendo does.

I am not in denial that the system is going to be LCD. I’m very much resigned to it. I just disagree that it follows a perfectly reasonable precedent.
 
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Had a thought about it and realized it might not have been totally clear: I'm not making fun of people who don't want a bigger Switch, I'm making fun of me. When I take my Switch places I literally do carry it in my pocket. It fits even when in its case, and I love that.

It's me, I am the grandma.
 
Had a thought about it and realized it might not have been totally clear: I'm not making fun of people who don't want a bigger Switch, I'm making fun of me. When I take my Switch places I literally do carry it in my pocket. It fits even when in its case, and I love that.

It's me, I am the grandma.
I keep my 6.8-inch kindle in my pants pocket next to my phone.
 
If true than the public is truly stupid haha. Oldpuck posted a very good post about how other hardware manufacturers do the same thing. If the internals are good the screen won't matter. People will be okay with it. Plus we all kow the next Mario game is going to look beautiful and the color palette will show wonderfully on the screen.
It is the "because Nintendo" effect. These calculated specs all sounds too good to be true. So what do they do? They pick the lowest common spec, even if (at times) it doesn't make sense. Have you seen the quote I have with nate? What I forget to add is they steal info here but leave out the ones that doesn't fit their views of Nintendo.

"Yeah they have T239 processor but 12 gigs of ram? No way, more like 8"

"8 inch screen I bet they will have 64 gigs of storage."

"Ampere architecture mix with Ada lovelace? I bet will have 8 nm node"

"DLSS? I bet it is dlss 2"
 
OLED is like moving from a tube to Plasma to LCD.

CRT >>>Plasma>>>>>>>LCD

We went backwards in display quality for years. LCD was cheap and lightweight and allowed consumers to purchase large displays that you could mount on the wall. OLED is finally allowing flat panel displays to get back to picture quality delivered on CRT's.

Something to keep in mind, OLED is not the standard for Nintendo Switch, LCD is. OLED is luxury model and never replaced the LCD Switch. Like @oldpuck pointed out, you could look at the Series S as a step back from the One X in multiple ways, but is it really correct to compare a mid gen luxury model to the next gen base model? Certain premium features are bound to be left behind from time to time and like I said, OLED never became the standard for Switch but a premium model priced accordingly.
 
Had a thought about it and realized it might not have been totally clear: I'm not making fun of people who don't want a bigger Switch, I'm making fun of me. When I take my Switch places I literally do carry it in my pocket. It fits even when in its case, and I love that.

It's me, I am the grandma.

I'd invest in those sling bags [tomtoc, pinqponq etc.] (^^')
They can look quite stylish and you can store some stuff with it too hehe, I understand the struggle though if you just want to carry it around in your pocket.
 
I mean I guess but we don't even know how good this LCD panel is. It's also 1080p. I don't really see this as some insane downgrade to doom over right now.
We don't know the resolution just yet...

If we actually get a fourfold increase in RAM that is going to be insane. Equally insane is that that would give it as much as the PS5 and Series X. That alone would be a massive headturner in terms of the discourse around this thing and how it compares to current generation consoles.
my head will turn if we get lpddr5x RAM.
Even with that small bezels it‘s too big.
I'm not worried about the screen size affecting joycon compatibility at all. I know people are worrying it would be too tall or too wide (ergonomic). They will figure it out (if it does end up using 8 inches).

I think we all know this--Absolute Worst case scenario, switch joycons can't be connected/slid between the screen, but can be connected wirelessly. But you at least have the updated inevitable switch 2 joycons that will come with the system. That's enough.

2nd to worst case scenario-- The screen is taller, but joycons still fit.


I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't fit in the current joycons on switch 2, cause let's be honest...They want people to forget the joycon drifting mishap associated with the Switch, and they want to sell more switch 2 controllers.
 
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Had a thought about it and realized it might not have been totally clear: I'm not making fun of people who don't want a bigger Switch, I'm making fun of me. When I take my Switch places I literally do carry it in my pocket. It fits even when in its case, and I love that.

It's me, I am the grandma.
I can fit my Switch, my phone, and my wallet in one pocket so yeah I'm in that boat too.
 
I've gotten used to the better rumble. When I use a 3rd party controller on Switch, I tend to wonder what the hell is going wrong.
HD rumble I do miss when playing docked and using my 8bitdo ultimate controller, but in handheld it's great with the joycon rumble.
 
So the Series S is the OLED, if Nintendo decided to do a dual lineup of OLED and Switch 2?

No, the OLED would be the Xbox One X and the Series S would be the SNG with its LCD screen. I know this isn't a perfect example because Microsoft launched with two SKU's that differ greatly in performance, but the idea is that Series S was released years after the Xbox One X but still ended up its inferior in multiple ways.
 
HD rumble I do miss when playing docked and using my 8bitdo ultimate controller, but in handheld it's great with the joycon rumble.
That's the 3rd party controller I use. I have 4 Switch Pro Controllers and 3 of them have drift.

I have some hall effect replacement modules, but I haven't made the time to do all the soldering.
 
This might be an obvious calculation that I'm just blanking on, but assuming the 8inch 1080p screen is correct, how big in inches would an unscaled 720p image be on it? This is also assuming Nintendo incorporates the same "pixel perfect" button command that the 3DS had for DS games.
 
This might be an obvious calculation that I'm just blanking on, but assuming the 8inch 1080p screen is correct, how big in inches would an unscaled 720p image be on it? This is also assuming Nintendo incorporates the same "pixel perfect" button command that the 3DS had for DS games.
I really don't think that this would apply to the Switch 2, unless for some reason the aspect ratio is different. I don't know what you mean by how big is a 720p upscaled image... It's as big as the display? As for the "pixel perfect" modes in older systems like the GBA, DS, and 3DS, they added those modes since the aspect ratio of the systems' displays were different, so viewing them in full would stretch them.
 
I really don't think that this would apply to the Switch 2, unless for some reason the aspect ratio is different. I don't know what you mean by how big is a 720p upscaled image... It's as big as the display? As for the "pixel perfect" modes in older systems like the GBA, DS, and 3DS, they added those modes since the aspect ratio of the systems' displays were different, so viewing them in full would stretch them.
I'm saying given the Switch 2's handheld screen, not a TV, how large would a 720p section of that 8 inch 1080p screen be assuming the pixels were 1:1 with no scaling or stretching. I think me saying "unscaled" looked too similar to "upscaled" because yeah then it's obvious.
 
Fair point that recent Pro systems in some ways stand above their predecessors, but I don’t see screen technology the same as storage or Flops - maybe Nintendo does.
It's a step back, absolutely, and a disappointing one. Nor do I think it is the same as 3D. I am also not sure it's "normal" because the idea of mid-gen refreshes is fairly new, so I'm not sure there is a normal yet.

I do think it's going to become normal, though. If you only release one piece of hardware per generation, then you're pretty much guaranteed that everything you put in that piece of hardware will be either available at the same or lower prices, or obsoleted by something better over the course of the generation.

But if you offer a premium version halfway through the generation, there is no guarantee it will sunk in price all the way down to the baseline version in half the time. Nintendo could have just eaten the cost, or raised the prices to compensate. But the hardware hasn't been announced yet, so I don't know what the full package is. We have no idea where else Nintendo might have chosen to eat costs, or push the price. Did we get a big wad of onboard storage? Hall effect sticks? Some advanced cooling solution? New features? Some combination?

I'm pretty upset if we don't get an OLED screen, more upset if we have to wait 4 years instead of 2 to get it. Personally, I'd prefer an OLED screen over most of the things we could get instead. But I'd recognize that some of these might be better moves for the player base as a whole. Investing in big onboard storage or hall-effect sticks would eliminate complaints about the Switch while serving both TV and handheld players equally.

I love an OLED screen, but I can't be upset about the device till I see what the whole package offers at what price point.
 
I'm saying given the Switch 2's handheld screen, not a TV, how large would a 720p section of that 8 inch 1080p screen be assuming the pixels were 1:1 with no scaling or stretching. I think me saying "unscaled" looked too similar to "upscaled" because yeah then it's obvious.
66.66%. It would be like a 5.33-inch screen inside of a 8-inch screen.

With modern rendering, this doesn't make sense as something to do.
 
I'm saying given the Switch 2's handheld screen, not a TV, how large would a 720p section of that 8 inch 1080p screen be assuming the pixels were 1:1 with no scaling or stretching.
If the Switch 2 is a 1080. 7.9" screen, then a 720p subsection of it would be 5.3", very slightly smaller than the Switch Lite's 5.5" screen.
 
66.66%. It would be like a 5.33-inch screen inside of a 8-inch screen.

With modern rendering, this doesn't make sense as something to do.
For games running in BC mode, it does. Owlboy, Sea of Stars, Blasphemous, The Messenger are all pixel art games designed to run at 360p, which integer scales onto 720p. This is a case where the smaller screen doesn't do you any favors, lack of integer scaling is going to make pixel art games smeary. That's why pixel perfect modes are offered in emulators.

It's not all bad, of course, there are a number of pixel art games (Axiom Verge, Shredder's Revenge) that are built to integer scale perfectly into 1080p. And for even plenty of people who play pixel art games, the lack of integer scaling is often a "meh" problem. But there are a class of games that would see visual degradation if on a 1080p screen without a pixel-perfect mode.
 
Doesn't Nvidia have some fancy upscaling tech that makes this discussion somewhat moot? Wouldn't all the OG Switch games potentially get upscaled to 1080p by the GPU?
The problem is that DLSS requires each game to be configured with it. You can't just press a button and have DLSS enabled.
 
For games running in BC mode, it does. Owlboy, Sea of Stars, Blasphemous, The Messenger are all pixel art games designed to run at 360p, which integer scales onto 720p. This is a case where the smaller screen doesn't do you any favors, lack of integer scaling is going to make pixel art games smeary. That's why pixel perfect modes are offered in emulators.

It's not all bad, of course, there are a number of pixel art games (Axiom Verge, Shredder's Revenge) that are built to integer scale perfectly into 1080p. And for even plenty of people who play pixel art games, the lack of integer scaling is often a "meh" problem. But there are a class of games that would see visual degradation if on a 1080p screen without a pixel-perfect mode.
360p integer scales into 1080p. Did you mean that they're 240p? I remember that was a concern with Shovel Knight, and at that point, I'd hope they would have options for 4.5x or 4x scaling on Switch 2.
 
I assume they'd allow a native or a 4x scaling option with a border for some games - the 3DS used to let you run DS games at native resolution at least, so I'm hoping they'd do a similar thing here. How are older games dealt with when docked on a 1080p screen at the moment?
 
..the idea of mid-gen refreshes is fairly new, so I'm not sure there is a normal yet.
Come again?

Nintendo has been doing new model refreshes of their hardware since the Gameboy days. They haven’t done it for every bit of hardware but they have done it a lot.

I wouldn’t call it “new,” but the idea that fans now expect it and take it for granted is kind of new, I guess.
 
As an aside, in the original ATSC, which was in turn branched of a japanese HI-Vision hdtv standard that ran at approximately 1080i. There may have been an intermediary standard after hi-vision. I don't recall.

The HDTV Grand Alliance that turned into the ATSC started in 1993 and the first broadcast was in 1998. They didn't take flat panels into account and since they were still in the 90's they made the decision to go with 2 standards (in mpeg-2) of 720p (at 60 frames per second) and 1080i (at 60 fields per second) for the easy half-integer scaling.

Now of course, non-integer scaling is a thing, and honestly, I'd rather take a 240p image and put it through an interesting filter to get something resembling (but not 100% accurate to) an old CRT television.
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