StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[Gerald]

Just for reference as well, 90mm² is about half the size of the Phoenix die used in AMD's Z1 Extreme (178mm²) on a very similar process, with a GPU that's twice as big. It's even substantially smaller than the cut down Phoenix2 die use in the regular Z1 (137mm²), despite having a GPU that's 6 times as big. I think people underestimate how much space can be saved in a semi-custom design just by taking out everything that isn't absolutely essential for a gaming device, not to mention going from big Zen CPU cores to comparatively tiny A78 cores.

Also that small chip I.e 90mm² should be really cheap in production

 

[Gerald]

Only 128GB of internal storage would be horrendous for nintendo's chances of getting enough AAA third party ports. For reference, Baldur's gate 3 is 100GB on PS5 and 150GB on PC.

My bet is 256GB, 512GB would be perfect scenario

 

[Deleted member 645]

DLSS is irrelevant to getting ports that work. It's relevant to making those ports look better.

I remember a time when Nintendo launching over 200 was unheard of. Dollars aren't what they used to be.

Also worth noting that while these obviously didn't work out for them, they've been more willing to launch at a high price following a very successful generation like Wii or DS.

I think the average consumer would be against paying more than 400 for a Nintendo product. Thats why I said they would have to really market the technical capabilities of the console if they are selling for that price point. Just saying oh here is the new 3D Mario will not be enough, IMO.

 

[Gerald]

1GHz would put them in a similar performance window with switch vs ps4 in CPU power, which was about at least 3.5x. But the gap might even be bigger because Zen 2 cores seem to have higher single core performance over A78s.

I think 1Ghz is the absolute minimum, while 2Ghz is the ceiling. I think saying in between us a safe bet.

I would only bet on 1Ghz myself for the CPU if we knew we would be using 8nm Samsung, but the SOC would be pretty big--and many of us don't think it would even fit the Switch form factor.

4nm is pretty cutting edge though, while being relatively mature. It's fair or a console coming out in mid to late 2024.



I don't think we're getting UFS 4. UFS 3.1 seems more likely. Although'm not expecting lppr5x, I wonder how much much is LPDDR5x and UFS 3.1 by itself now? Looking at a BOM for a Pixel 8 might give us insight. Google charges $60 for each storage upgrade

1.7-2.0GHz on TSMC 4N I think, on terrible Samsung 8nm we would have 1GHz

 

[Machrider]

Only 128GB of internal storage would be horrendous for nintendo's chances of getting enough AAA third party ports. For reference, Baldur's gate 3 is 100GB on PS5 and 150GB on PC.

Even if that's the case, that still would mean every Switch 2 would have enough storage space to download Baldur's Gate 3 (lets assume it's the same size of the PS5 version). It may mean the consumer may have to clear their fridge out entirely, but that's not really the developer's problem.

 

[NineTailSage]

It's also in the shipping. Thats why Sony has so aggressively made micro-revisions of the PS5 this gen, trying to get that weight down.

I think the other reason Nintendo went with the hybrid design of the Switch was to minimize shipping costs and maximum actual volume per container. We can probably assume Switch 2 will be a similar size as og Switch with packaging, this image compared to PS5 is pretty eye opening of just how compact the form factor is...

 

[majimazio]

Either way, the Switch 2 game card needs to be faster to bridge the gap with the internal UFS.
Physical media installations like PlayStation and Xbox are not ideal for a handheld that is expected to be 128GB to 256GB.
External storage needs to be something faster, not micro SD. It would be very cool if a dedicated memory card for the Switch 2 was created based on Samsung UFS card.

 

[RumHamRigRunner]

Only 128GB of internal storage would be horrendous for nintendo's chances of getting enough AAA third party ports. For reference, Baldur's gate 3 is 100GB on PS5 and 150GB on PC.

Nintendo also has a Call of Duty sized elephant in the room when it comes to internal storage. Kotick basically confirmed it.

I think 256GB minimum certainly makes sense. That’s what the revised Steam Deck lineup offers now and those start at $400 and that’s with decent enough support with the vast majority of PC titles released before 2021 with graphical fidelity close to a base PS4 when it targets 720p pixel counts.

If Nintendo wants to offer a PS4 Pro class experience, even while using DLSS, asset sizes will be quite a bit larger compared to games designed around the original Switch. So even 256GB is cutting it super close. In that vein, Wi-Fi 6 is also kind of a no-brainer.

 

[RumHamRigRunner]

I really don't believe that, the XBox SS CPU is practically a Ryzen 7 3xxx, there's no chance they'll start optimizing games to run at 30FPS on a CPU like that without any leftover performance. It's the same thing as discarding 80% of the PC Gamers market just based on the CPU I guess.

I mean it’s pretty apparent that the CPUs in current-gen consoles still pose somewhat of a limitation in the most CPU-hungry games (which are also not very well optimized across the board). Very few current-gen games lack a performance mode on Series X but they still do (unless they patch it in at a later point like they did with Plague Tale: Requiem, which could potentially be the case for Starfield if the PC beta patch is any indication).

Even in some of the games that target 60FPS, it’s primarily CPU-bound scenarios where PS5 and Xbox Series X dip below 60FPS, and some games will dip into the 40s. Not to mention games that target 120FPS and hardly ever reach it in practice, even though FPS is usually 80-90+ which is still an improvement over 60 and especially 30.

NG Switch will have low CPU clocks for portability and battery life. It stands to reason that they will be limiting in demanding instances and we could see CPU-heavy games locked to 30FPS just like on the original Switch.

 

[Meelow]

I think the other reason Nintendo went with the hybrid design of the Switch was to minimize shipping costs and maximum actual volume per container. We can probably assume Switch 2 will be a similar size as og Switch with packaging, this image compared to PS5 is pretty eye opening of just how compact the form factor is...

That and the fact that development was getting more expensive, and Nintendo couldn't manage to run two systems.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I'm still thinking on why couldn't nintendo try and emulate the gpu code while running cpu code natively and through gpu emulation, enhance graphics like an emulator would with a resolution increase + anisotropic filtering and maybe some aliasing solution on top.

There's difference between a emulator by a third-party, who has nothing to do with the system and no legal responsibility whatsoever and a official BC solution from Nintendo that meddle with game code or execution model to add or change things that were non-intended by the original game.

As Oldpuck said, you're adding more bug paths, you're putting yourself in the line by offering such things as an official solution, as anything that goes wrong, it will be your fault and responsibility. And you might even risk piss off publishers/developers who wanted to sell upgrade patches or dislike game console companies changing and adding effects to their game that were not intended and might ruin artist vision.

Can it be done? Yes. Xbox does and Playstation used to do the same thing back then. But there's a difference between a platform holder doing it and a non-related emulator. A platform holder needs to assess if it's worth or not to do such thing because they carry a lot of legal responsibility.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Make it so.

Also, happy birthday Nate !

 

[Concernt]

Good post. Let’s hope for the above.

When do you expect it if not late ‘24?

 

[LinkURL]

I mean it’s pretty apparent that the CPUs in current-gen consoles still pose somewhat of a limitation in the most CPU-hungry games (which are also not very well optimized across the board). Very few current-gen games lack a performance mode on Series X but they still do (unless they patch it in at a later point like they did with Plague Tale: Requiem, which could potentially be the case for Starfield if the PC beta patch is any indication).

Even in some of the games that target 60FPS, it’s primarily CPU-bound scenarios where PS5 and Xbox Series X dip below 60FPS, and some games will dip into the 40s. Not to mention games that target 120FPS and hardly ever reach it in practice, even though FPS is usually 80-90+ which is still an improvement over 60 and especially 30.

NG Switch will have low CPU clocks for portability and battery life. It stands to reason that they will be limiting in demanding instances and we could see CPU-heavy games locked to 30FPS just like on the original Switch.

But you said well, some games (especially not well optimized ones) have problems with the CPU in the current generation, in the PS4 and XOne generation this was basically in all games. The type of game that could run at 60FPS last generation is the type of game that targets 120 today.

 

[Scrawnton]

In the end I don't care how powerful Switch 2 as long as it's not big and bulky like handheld PCs and I absolutely do not want to hear their cooling or fan noise when holding and playing it. I have such a strong disliking for any tech device that ramps up and makes noise.

 

[Neoxon]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[BreakAtmo]

I think the average consumer would be against paying more than 400 for a Nintendo product. Thats why I said they would have to really market the technical capabilities of the console if they are selling for that price point. Just saying oh here is the new 3D Mario will not be enough, IMO.

They could go with 2 SKUs. LCD 256GB for $399, OLED 512GB for $499. Those would absolutely sell, and if this data is any indication, the $499 model would be very profitable.

I have a cost analysis post I keep half writing then deleting, so I had this data on hand.

In 2016, when the Switch was manufacturing, eMMC chips were $2.25 apiece, with each module storing 64 gigabits. The 32GB of eMMC storage would have cost Nintendo $9.

Switch NG's storage is almost definitely UFS 3.1. I don't have any direct UFS 3.1 data, because it's purely an internal part. But we can make a good guess - both Kioxia (formally Toshiba, the manufacturer of the Switch's eMMC) and Micron make SSDs and UFS storage, and explicitly advertise that the NAND storage in the two is identical, it's just interface and packaging.

Looking at their consumer products, prices tend to float around $0.06 per GB. I imagine that this doesn't reflect a Nintendo's cost, which should be lower, but for the sake of simplicity, let's say it does.

128GB of storage would cost $7.68. 256GB $15.36, and 512GB $30.72.

 

[Concernt]

In the end I don't care how powerful Switch 2 as long as it's not big and bulky like handheld PCs and I absolutely do not want to hear their cooling or fan noise when holding and playing it. I have such a strong disliking for any tech device that ramps up and makes noise.

While we don't have confirmation, I would say it's likely that T239 is on 4N, which as explored over the last few pages, results in a sub-1cm² SOC. This allows the device to be no bigger than the existing Switch, realistically. Even with 9W fed into the GPU, such a chip wouldn't exceed the design parameters of existing Switch cooling systems. Personally, while I expect the device to be physically larger to house a better display and battery, among other features like comfort, I have no expectation that it should become thicker or louder; there's no reason it should unless they picked a bad node, which seems unlikely.

 

[BreakAtmo]

While we don't have confirmation, I would say it's likely that T239 is on 4N, which as explored over the last few pages, results in a sub-1cm² SOC. This allows the device to be no bigger than the existing Switch, realistically. Even with 9W fed into the GPU, such a chip wouldn't exceed the design parameters of existing Switch cooling systems. Personally, while I expect the device to be physically larger to house a better display and battery, among other features like comfort, I have no expectation that it should become thicker or louder; there's no reason it should unless they picked a bad node, which seems unlikely.

I still want a fixed-25W docked mode. That's playing with power.

 

[Concernt]

I still want a fixed-25W docked mode. That's playing with power.

Hahah, I very much expect it to be 15W peak in TV mode. You can only add so much power before the cooling requirements become definitively un-handheld. It still needs to be small and light enough for children to pick up and play Kirby and Pokémon. Plus a lower maximum could theoretically mean better yields, since you're not pushing T239 to its absolute limits, units don't need to be able to sustain absolute peak clocks. I believe this was also done with Nintendo Switch, it didn't need the top bin of Tegra X1.

 

[Bonejack]

I would be happy if ReDraketed wouldn't throw as much heat as my PS5.

 

[Concernt]

I would be happy if ReDraketed wouldn't throw as much heat as my PS5.

Running at full tilt, my Xbox Series X is really quite genuinely effective at heating up a room if the windows are closed. I would prefer (and expect) NG Switch to have similar power consumption and heat output to the original Switch with its 20nm X1.

 

[Hermii]

Hahah, I very much expect it to be 15W peak in TV mode. You can only add so much power before the cooling requirements become definitively un-handheld. It still needs to be small and light enough for children to pick up and play Kirby and Pokémon. Plus a lower maximum could theoretically mean better yields, since you're not pushing T239 to its absolute limits, units don't need to be able to sustain absolute peak clocks. I believe this was also done with Nintendo Switch, it didn't need the top bin of Tegra X1.

This, and the faster you go above a certain treshold, memory bandwidth becomes more and more of a bottleneck.

 

[Lancelot]

But you said well, some games (especially not well optimized ones) have problems with the CPU in the current generation, in the PS4 and XOne generation this was basically in all games. The type of game that could run at 60FPS last generation is the type of game that targets 120 today.

Keep in mind cross gen is still ending as a whole and games are starting to do a lot of general purpose computing that simply couldn't be done last gen. CPU limitations are much more critical this generation all around, especially once all the current gen open worlds start showing up, and they rely on more than just discernible graphics to work.

 

[Samuspet]

My bet is 256GB, 512GB would be perfect scenario

It really wouldn’t surprise me if they go with 128GB. I expect them to cut costs somewhere (especially if the SoC is advanced as some think) and with a jump of roughly $50 in the OLED Steam Deck every time they double storage if Nintendo can save $50 (their own cost I realise Valve are overcharging for profit) by deploying 128GB instead of 512GB then they’ll do it and release a 256/512GB version when they do the Switch 2 OLED.

Nintendo will simply demand that third party games have much reduced file sizes versus the PS5 version whether it’s a special compression technique or just using lower quality assets.

 

[Gerald]

While we don't have confirmation, I would say it's likely that T239 is on 4N, which as explored over the last few pages, results in a sub-1cm² SOC. This allows the device to be no bigger than the existing Switch, realistically. Even with 9W fed into the GPU, such a chip wouldn't exceed the design parameters of existing Switch cooling systems. Personally, while I expect the device to be physically larger to house a better display and battery, among other features like comfort, I have no expectation that it should become thicker or louder; there's no reason it should unless they picked a bad node, which seems unlikely.

Yeah and chip will be very small and cheap in production, TSMC 4N make the most sense

 

[BingBong43]

To clarify I agree with this, I also don't think there is going to be a significant new gimmick other than more power but that doesn't really change my point.
The Gameboy Advance didn't have a gimmick either besides more power.

I'm hoping for Wii U-like functionality with a dongle that lets you cast wirelessly to the the TV. I also hope for some sort of camera implementation, perhaps for even more advanced AR games.

I sincerely doubt all the R&D they put into the 3DS AR capabilities are just going to disappear forever. GameBoy Camera, DSi, 3DS, Wii U Gamepad Camera -- It was actually sort of odd the Switch didn't have a camera. I'm curious what sorts of fun, quirky, 3DS-like experiences might be possible with the addition of a camera on the back.

 

[Bonejack]

I'm hoping for Wii U-like functionality with a dongle that lets you cast wirelessly to the the TV. I also hope for some sort of camera implementation, perhaps for even more advanced AR games.

I sincerely doubt all the R&D they put into the 3DS AR capabilities are just going to disappear forever. GameBoy Camera, DSi, 3DS, Wii U Gamepad Camera -- It was actually sort of odd the Switch didn't have a camera. I'm curious what sorts of fun, quirky, 3DS-like experiences might be possible with the addition of a camera on the back.

Such a dongle/functionality would be good for a potential ReDraketed Lite, but for the "main" system, they will keep the dock for TV connection. Simply because they wanna push up performance for that mode, and that would mean increased battery drain and increased heat.

But as a way to connect a Lite model to a TV without increasing performance with a "Dock Mode" and not using a dock, that would be a nifty idea.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Only 128GB of internal storage would be horrendous for nintendo's chances of getting enough AAA third party ports. For reference, Baldur's gate 3 is 100GB on PS5 and 150GB on PC.

Yes it would but I can’t find estimates of UFS 3.1 512, lol.

Just trying to find any estimates.

If 128 GBs of UFS 3.1 is $15, then 512 is probably less than $60. How much less? I don’t know.

But 512 UFS 3.1 is ideal for Switch 2.

 

[Stinky Horse]

Very outside my area of expertise. This @GrandDemand's area, and they did some work annotating multiple products on the market and did some additional comparisons with TSMC 7nm. Those posts are very good, but I can summarize.

Best guess for N4: 91mm².
Best guess for 7N: 136.2mm²
Best guess for Samsung 8nm: 201.4mm²

16 SMs is harder to guess, because it doesn't just increase the number of SMs, but requires a second GPC, which brings along a bunch of additional hardware. So it's more than just applying a scaling factor to the GPC.

By way of comparison:

TX1: 118mm²
TX1+: 100mm²

This is why I think the chicken littling about "If Nintendo goes with 4N, how will they be able to make a Lite???" isn't a major concern. Simple, they use a chip that is good enough for a Lite in the first place

If it is N4 then there would be bags of room for a Maxwell gpc if needs be. But I would really like to see some strong sign that it's not the Samsung process that multiple people and the chip's Linux code itself have alluded to. And yeah they could all be wrong, but it would still be nice to hear something.

 

[Cuzizkool]

Since we’re at the point in the cycle where we talk about price, whats everyone’s opinion on whether Nintendo will sell at a loss? Do they have more/reliable revenue sources in 2024 than they did in 2017 or prior? Evergreen titles must make a pretty penny, and there’s Nintendo Land and streaming rights from Mario Movie. I wonder if Nintendo will be a bit daring and sell at a slight loss to keep Switch2 at a more competitive price point.

 

[Bonejack]

Since we’re at the point in the cycle where we talk about price, whats everyone’s opinion on whether Nintendo will sell at a loss? Do they have more/reliable revenue sources in 2024 than they did in 2017 or prior? Evergreen titles must make a pretty penny, and there’s Nintendo Land and streaming rights from Mario Movie. I wonder if Nintendo will be a bit daring and sell at a slight loss to keep Switch2 at a more competitive price point.

With how popular Switch is, and assuming there's no reason a Switch 2 would be less popular (especially at launch), they would be stupid to sell at a loss if they can hit an "acceptable" launch price without doing so.

And despite the times we're in right now, up to 500 $/€ is an acceptable price.

E: No matter the business they're in, one thing that every company has in common is that they always want more money.

 

[redmutineer75]

If it is N4 then there would be bags of room for a Maxwell gpc if needs be. But I would really like to see some strong sign that it's not the Samsung process that multiple people and the chip's Linux code itself have alluded to. And yeah they could all be wrong, but it would still be nice to hear something.

The main sign is economic. While TSMC 4N is 2.3 times more expensive per wafer than Samsung 8N, it has 2.7 times more density. That means they can fit more chips on a wafer, and alongside higher yields, means that it'll actually be cheaper per chip. When you're Nintendo, and shipping tens of millions of devices with said chip on it, it's just good business sense to go with 4N.

There's also history. We know that T239's tapeout (that is, when the final blueprint of the chip is made) happened at the same time as Nvidia's 4N 40-series cards in 2022. If it had been on an earlier process that the Ampere architecture was designed for, they would have been able to get it finalized earlier. As well, now that flagship phones are moving off of 4nm and onto 3nm, that opens up TSMC's foundries for Nintendo to use by next year.

 

[Foltzie]

I'm hoping for Wii U-like functionality with a dongle that lets you cast wirelessly to the the TV. I also hope for some sort of camera implementation, perhaps for even more advanced AR games.

I sincerely doubt all the R&D they put into the 3DS AR capabilities are just going to disappear forever. GameBoy Camera, DSi, 3DS, Wii U Gamepad Camera -- It was actually sort of odd the Switch didn't have a camera. I'm curious what sorts of fun, quirky, 3DS-like experiences might be possible with the addition of a camera on the back.

Such a dongle/functionality would be good for a potential ReDraketed Lite, but for the "main" system, they will keep the dock for TV connection. Simply because they wanna push up performance for that mode, and that would mean increased battery drain and increased heat.

But as a way to connect a Lite model to a TV without increasing performance with a "Dock Mode" and not using a dock, that would be a nifty idea.

The Wii U gamepad was based on an early form of Miracast, which is now built into the WiFi standards and is superseded by WiFi Direct. So hardware support on the console side is already built into whatever WiFi chip Switch 2 uses.

However, the dock would have to have a WiFi chip to support that mode, which would add cost and complexity, probably more than it is worth.

Furthermore, it also implies putting two render targets on the Switch 2 running on handheld clocks, which of course worked well enough on the Wii U, but would effectively created a "third mode" for developers to potentially target. . .

A shame, I really liked the asymmetric gimmicks of the Wii U system.

Still if Nintendo was absolutely set on having a "new" gimmick, bringing back the option for asymmetric gameplay would be fun.

 

[Mr.Gamerson]

I love the BOM speculation talk. Do you guys think a $350 LCD 128gb break even model and a solid profit $500 512gb model split would work? I think it would work very well for the first year at least because I see the core demo being willing to pay $500 to have access to the system at launch.

 

[Deleted member 645]

They could go with 2 SKUs. LCD 256GB for $399, OLED 512GB for $499. Those would absolutely sell, and if this data is any indication, the $499 model would be very profitable.

We will see. I would be very surprised. I think more 350 LCD and 400 OLED. Honestly, I would be surprised if Nintendo released with two different models. They are more of a wait and release an upgraded model later in life after a couple of years. No one knows we will have to wait and see.

 

[Bonejack]

At best i could see multiple storage size SKUs at launch, but not different screens. And yes, i completely ignore that (hopefully false) rumor of a digital-only Frankenstein SKU.

 

[Goodtwin]

Running at full tilt, my Xbox Series X is really quite genuinely effective at heating up a room if the windows are closed. I would prefer (and expect) NG Switch to have similar power consumption and heat output to the original Switch with its 20nm X1.

This is no joke. My nephew will play his Series X in his room with the door closed, after a couple hours his room will be nearly 10 degrees warmer than the rest of their house. Its a small space heater for sure.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

If it is N4 then there would be bags of room for a Maxwell gpc if needs be. But I would really like to see some strong sign that it's not the Samsung process that multiple people and the chip's Linux code itself have alluded to. And yeah they could all be wrong, but it would still be nice to hear something.

First, even if there's room for a Maxwell GPC, you don't want to have to include past silicon into newer silicon every generation to achieve BC. That's basically throwing away money and creating a tech debt. If that's the case, it's better to reset everything and don't include BC at all.

Second, Linux code doesn't allude to Samsung Foundry at all. The only thing that alluded to Samsung was a flag on the stolen Nvidia data that was showing T239=SEC. But that was (very probably) something carried over from T234 work, as in the same data, it had Ampere GPUs as fabbed by TSMC. So it isn't conclusive either way.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think the components will go

T239 APU
2x6 GBs LPDDR5 RAM
512 GBs UFS 3.1
8 inch 1080p LCD screen
The cheapest possible thing for literally every other component other than the joycons.

This is not going to have the build quality of the OLED, lol.

 

[TomNookYankees]

It really wouldn’t surprise me if they go with 128GB. I expect them to cut costs somewhere (especially if the SoC is advanced as some think) and with a jump of roughly $50 in the OLED Steam Deck every time they double storage if Nintendo can save $50 (their own cost I realise Valve are overcharging for profit) by deploying 128GB instead of 512GB then they’ll do it and release a 256/512GB version when they do the Switch 2 OLED.

Nintendo will simply demand that third party games have much reduced file sizes versus the PS5 version whether it’s a special compression technique or just using lower quality assets.

If nintendo wants games like Baldur's Gate 3 and GTA 6 to have switch 2 version, having only 128GB of internal storage kills any chance of that, especially because unlike with the switch 1, using microSD for expandable storage likely won't be possible for the switch 2 due to the limited speeds of microSD.

 

[Cuzizkool]

With how popular Switch is, and assuming there's no reason a Switch 2 would be less popular (especially at launch), they would be stupid to sell at a loss if they can hit an "acceptable" launch price without doing so.

And despite the times we're in right now, up to 500 $/€ is an acceptable price.

E: No matter the business they're in, one thing that every company has in common is that they always want more money.

I think “acceptable” is $450 max. And I would be wary of assuming Switch 2 will be an instant success. Nintendo has historically been in a hit-miss-hit cycle with their hardware generations for a while now. I‘m hoping the 3DS pricing fiasco is still on their mind when they’re talking about Switch 2 price. I’m really hoping for $399.

 

[Stinky Horse]

First, even if there's room for a Maxwell GPC, you don't want to have to include past silicon into newer silicon every generation to achieve BC. That's basically throwing away money and creating a tech debt. If that's the case, it's better to reset everything and don't include BC at all.

Second, Linux code doesn't allude to Samsung Foundry at all. The only thing that alluded to Samsung was a flag on the stolen Nvidia data that was showing T239=SEC. But that was (very probably) something carried over from T234 work, as in the same data, it had Ampere GPUs as fabbed by TSMC. So it isn't conclusive either way.

Including past silicon on the chip is something they've done on every system this century except Switch and Gamecube, which is why I wouldn't rule it out at all.

Thanks I didn't know about the Ampere GPUs being listed as TSMC (assuming that's specifically the desktop ones and not the server AI ones that are TSMC 7nm)

 

[Dekuman]

I think “acceptable” is $450 max. And I would be wary of assuming Switch 2 will be an instant success. Nintendo has historically been in a hit-miss-hit cycle with their hardware generations for a while now. I‘m hoping the 3DS pricing fiasco is still on their mind when they’re talking about Switch 2 price. I’m really hoping for $399.

All true, but the stakes are much much higher for them this time and the achilles heel for their transition had been software. With a single pipeline feeding into Switch they will be able to quickly target the new console. BC would make cross-gen even more straightforward.

The scenario where they screw this up is if they come out with a non-BC console, somehow make the hardware more expensive/weaker than we imagined, and price it very high and turn away 3rd party support. Even then, a very similar hardware would probably still allow them to produce a game that have a Switch/Switch 2 separate versions out much quicker than porting between 3DS/Wii U

Worst It's conceivable something like this happens

• Their hardware has no BC
• They make a decision to split software between the two platforms Switch/Switch 2 with no cross-gen titles releasing on both
• The hardware is $549+ but is on an outdated node and clocked very low, performance below expectations
• third parties fail to port over expected cross platform games
• Mario is missing from the launch slate, and it's still too early for a new Zelda, so we get Mario Galaxy 2 Remastered as the launch title and a 2D Zelda remake.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm really curious how much the Dualsense costs to manufacture with all of its advanced haptics.

I assume the Joycon 2 will cost more to manufacture.

Haven't seen a Dualsense cost estimate.

 

[Hermii]

I'm really curious how much the Dualsense costs to manufacture with all of its advanced haptics.

I assume the Joycon 2 will cost more to manufacture.

Haven't seen a Dualsense cost estimate.

why do you assume that?

 

[ILikeFeet]

If it is N4 then there would be bags of room for a Maxwell gpc if needs be. But I would really like to see some strong sign that it's not the Samsung process that multiple people and the chip's Linux code itself have alluded to. And yeah they could all be wrong, but it would still be nice to hear something.

there's no person who knows the node. it's not a thing given to devs. and the linux code itself is highly suspect with the amount of copy/pasting going on. we just have to assume a best fit guesstimation here rather than any evidence

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

why do you assume that?

I assume the joycons will include a lot of the same haptics as the Dualsense but made more electricity efficient and that plus the unique, detachable nature of the joycons will also increase the price.

If the Switch 2 has a unique gimmick, it also has to be on the joycons to ensure docked/handheld usage.

 

[LinkURL]

Keep in mind cross gen is still ending as a whole and games are starting to do a lot of general purpose computing that simply couldn't be done last gen. CPU limitations are much more critical this generation all around, especially once all the current gen open worlds start showing up, and they rely on more than just discernible graphics to work.

Finally the Jaguar generation is leaving, but i3s R3s or even old i5/i7 will remain here for a long time.
Last generation, consoles held back on CPU usage because they were weaker than even Intel's office CPUs. But in this generation, those who will hold back are the entry-level or old Mid/high PC CPUs.

 

[redmutineer75]

I wonder what DLSS setting will be the default? If I were Nintendo, I'd say to Nvidia "OK, as part of our deal, you'll have a few years to work on improving Ultra Performance mode" and make it the default. I know there's only so much you can do with a ninth of the pixels, but surely there's further improvements to be made.