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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Well, on LinkedIn, they advertise the jobs with "come help us make Metroid Prime 4!" so

image.png


The posting gives

"Senior External Environment Artist [Remote Contract] (Retro Studios)"


Is this supposed to be indicative of how far along MP4 is? Because it's not.
 
Well, on LinkedIn, they advertise the jobs with "come help us make Metroid Prime 4!" so

The posting gives

"Senior External Environment Artist [Remote Contract] (Retro Studios)"

Interesting find. IDK what that is about then. We know that there are product testers working at Retro Studios since October 2022 at least, and is still working there according to their LinkedIn profile.

If MP4 isn't ready, well, then IDK why they would release MP1 Remastered unless they have a timeline on MP4. Goes against the rumors too, that they sat on MP1 Remastered for so long. Why release MP1 Remastered all of sudden unless they have a timeline plan in mind?

And no, it's not to itch our Metroid needs because we've been waiting so long. We got Metroid Dread, a GREAT GAME in its own right. They didn't release MP1 Remastered out of concern about our Metroid craving, Metroid Dread would served that need nicely.
 
NG gets stomped by the last gen pro consoles...

The PS4 Pro will absolutely stomp all over the NG. It just will.

So I'm confused by this. I was under the impression some of the more higher end estimates for drake (especially if it's on 4nm) were above 3.5 TF? That comes pretty close to the PS4 Pro's 4TF, doesn't it? Also won't it have a far superior CPU on top of that?

So that's confusing!
 
It's the "before DLSS" that I took objection to.

Let me quote Richard Leadbetter from Digital Foundry in a recent video



The reason that these performance comparisons tend to go in circles is because, as the only Nvidia console, the sorts of comparisons that have worked for the last 20 years just don't apply anymore.

TL;DR
if you want to use some direct comparison between consoles, the NG gets stomped by the last gen pro consoles and all the current gen consoles. But that's ignoring NG's special technologies. If you include NG's special technologies, it fares much better but things like "As powerful as" or "50% of" become ridiculous statements that don't hold water anymore. Nintendo will be able to make first party games using those technologies that absolutely blow the last gen out of the water, while ports that seem "equivalent" need compromises.

Bad analogy: the Switch is a butter knife, the PS4 is a steak knife, the PS4 Pro is a chef's knife, and the NG is a steak knife plus a Vitamix high powered blender. If you're making salsa, the NG is the best set of tools. If you're carving a turkey, the PS4 Pro is.

Imagine you had a version of Death Stranding for consoles that let you tweak the settings the same what that the PC does. You install it on PS4 Pro and NG. You make the settings match identically between the two, with the NG docked. The PS4 Pro will absolutely stomp all over the NG. It just will. The PS4 Pro will have better frame rates, and there will be some settings high enough where the PS4 Pro looks gorgeous, and is perfectly playable, and the NG is brought to its knees.

This is the traditional way of comparing the power of these machines. When we say "50% of a Series S" most people mean, and most people hear, something like this. "You will need to cut resolution by 50% or frame rate by 50%, roughly, to get this game to run like the Series S visuals, and if that's not acceptable (because the res or frame rate would be unplayable low) you will need to make other kinds of setting cut as well, like turning off shadows, or reflections, or texture quality, or anti-aliasing."

But RTX technologies - the ones that are in the NG - completely change this dynamic. Let's go back to our tweakable Death Stranding for a second. Let's tweak our settings till we get a nice, steady 30fps on PS4 Pro. And for the sake of simplicity, let's assume that NG is getting 15fps.

Well, NG can do DLSS, an option that simply doesn't exist on PS4 Pro. Let's leave every other setting untouched, and add that. Boom, 30fps. Except the games are no longer pixel identical. DLSS looks different than PS4 Pro's checkerboarded 4k. Does it look worse? No. Does it look better - also no! There are chunks that are superior, like high detail foliage. There are places where it looks worse, like motion artifacts when an object moves quickly. Digital Foundry has a whole 18 minute video comparing the two, but I think the differences are ultimately subjective.

Does that mean the NG is as powerful as PS4 Pro? Because if you're using the traditional mindset, that's not true, and bad ports will certainly reflect that. But good ports will look comparable. is that close enough to say "PS4 Pro docked?" Maybe? But it gets weirder.

Because obviously we've given NG the upper hand by letting it use modern upscaling, but not letting PS4 Pro. So what happens when you throw FSR2 in the mix? Well, if you just look at the numbers, like we used to, then PS4 Pro starts stomping again. But if you look at the image on screen, they suddenly look very different.

DLSS is a vastly superior upscaler. The pixel differences are suddenly much greater, and they'll never match. Do I need to use less upscaling - and lower frame rate - with FSR to get it closer to DLSS? Well, depends on the game and how much I care about temporal stability versus high frequency detail versus frame rates. There will no longer be one consistent answer. And this applies to every console comparison currently. Series S, even Series X and PS5 will simply be facing a whole different set of trade offs.

And all of this is just replicated again with Ray Tracing! Hardware ray tracing is a feature the PS4 Pro doesn't have at all. How do I talk about "well the PS4 Pro version runs 60fps, but the NG version has ray traced shadows." Which is more powerful? It's kind of a meaningless question at that point, and it's about preference, and what the developers are choosing to do with the hardware.

And there is yet another complication to this whole situation the PS4 Pro and the Series S have never, and will never be used to their full potential in a game. The PS4 Pro, by licensing agreement with Sony, will never have an exclusive. The Series S, for the same reason with Microsoft, will never have an exclusive.

This is why I can confidently say that "PS 4 Pro like games will be the expectation" - because all those experiences are also possible on PS4, and all PS4 Pro got, for the most part, was resolution increases, something DLSS can do handily. Any halfway decent PS4 Pro port should match resolution, frame rate, and settings on NG.

In the case of the Series S, it is only receiving cut down Series X games. That puts it in a wildly different place. There will be some games where cutting them down to the Series S's size pushed the engineering to the limits, and DLSS isn't powerful enough on it's own to close that gap. Starfield is likely in that boat. On the other hand, you have games like Control, where Ray Tracing is disabled on Series S, but might be possible on NG. "50% of a Series S" is suddenly an insane sentence, it doesn't describe anything actually happening in reality.
so in a sense, NG is going to be a PS4 level of power in both handheld & docked modes but the modern tech within it is what helps the games there giving a good & sometimes comparable to current/last gen games' visuals?
 
Well, on LinkedIn, they advertise the jobs with "come help us make Metroid Prime 4!" so

image.png


The posting gives

"Senior External Environment Artist [Remote Contract] (Retro Studios)"

the wait to play Metroid Prime 4, better be worth, less then a masterpiece like Metroid Prime i will not acept
 
for many years my dad and I made big ass batches of salsa by chopping up peppers and onion and tomato and shit with knives like adults and it was fucking awesome

You're supposed to use knives and immersion blenders and other cooking techniques all together.

 
I wonder if someone will hint at the codename/name. Like does it have a number? How many letters in it?
Whatever it turns out to be, someone will have been posting it under our noses all along

So my thinking is, is it Delight? Nate's been describing things as delightful recently, it could be an oblique sort of reference to ray tracing, and its the kind of weird name Nintendo would like
 
for many years my dad and I made big ass batches of salsa by chopping up peppers and onion and tomato and shit with knives like adults and it was fucking awesome
Kinda reminds of when I made chicken curry back in 11th grade.
 
At page GTX 1660 Ti now,

mario-running.gif


It happens when you’re busy at work…


I'll just say that anyone who doesn't believe in Super Switch face buttons is just a big 🟡🔴🟡🟢.
nah, just wanted to say that

I have less hair on my noggin today than I did when I was born, so I embrace that take. And yes, that means I don’t believe in the colored face buttons. :sneaky:
 
Splatoon 3 is the answer.
I don’t even care what the question is.

Cantina-style salsa's made in blenders, meng
for many years my dad and I made big ass batches of salsa by chopping up peppers and onion and tomato and shit with knives like adults and it was fucking awesome
My dad and I also made it the same way as you and yours, Raccoon! Then my sister would throw the jars we made her in the blender to make it more smooth like cantina-style.
(Nowadays, my dad uses a food processor a bit more to do some of the chopping like @Skittzo.)
 
I don’t even care what the question is.



My dad and I also made it the same way as you and yours, Raccoon! Then my sister would throw the jars we made her in the blender to make it more smooth like cantina-style.
(Nowadays, my dad uses a food processor a bit more to do some of the chopping like @Skittzo.)
In @Raccoon's defense it kinda sounds like they were making a pico de gallo or salsa fresca, which, yeah, don't put that in a blender.
 
The fact Nintendo's "big pile o cash" is more than 10% of their entire value is extremely funny.

How do you do that? Why do they need such ludicrous(from my perspective and experience working with European companies) liquidity? They could drag their own stock price up at the drop of a hat.
Nintendo's comments around that have been that they are investing those funds back into the company, like the new buildings, media ventures, ect. All reasonable expenses, even better if you don't have to finance the costs. . . Also Nintendo hardware has updates and downs and having a buffer is wise. . . But yeah, $5B is a lot.
 
Whatever it turns out to be, someone will have been posting it under our noses all along

So my thinking is, is it Delight? Nate's been describing things as delightful recently, it could be an oblique sort of reference to ray tracing, and its the kind of weird name Nintendo would like
Well, the boss of Nintendo did say it will "Surprise and Delight players"
 
Personally, I think Nintendo announced all their Black Friday/ Holiday bundles ahead of schedule this year (the Mario Kart 8 DX bundle and Switch Sports bundles being announced really early) so they can clear stock and get some final early Holiday sales before announcing next-gen in late October/November.
 
So I'm confused by this. I was under the impression some of the more higher end estimates for drake (especially if it's on 4nm) were above 3.5 TF? That comes pretty close to the PS4 Pro's 4TF, doesn't it?
I wish I could make it simpler! The short version is that Nvidia invented a trick for basically doubling FLOPS, but those extra FLOPS are harder to use. AMD copied that trick (it’s a good trick!) but not until much later.

This is another example of the way RTX changed the game such that the old head to head comparisons don’t tell the whole story.

Also won't it have a far superior CPU on top of that?

So that's confusing!
I cheated a little here and you caught it! Death Stranding is a game that doesn’t benefit much from the huge CPU jump. I picked it so we could focus on the GPU.
 
my main albeit minor question here is that if the console is comparable to PS4 in terms of power, how would stuff like Botw with 0 loading times, matrix tech demo & possibly other rumored/speculated stuff (like Mihoyo games & FF7R integrade) work there?

obviously there will be massive compromises but i'm moreso curious on the technical aspect, as in would it be massively similar to the whole switch port deal: that is, it doesn't look great but it runs fine
 
I wish I could make it simpler! The short version is that Nvidia invented a trick for basically doubling FLOPS, but those extra FLOPS are harder to use. AMD copied that trick (it’s a good trick!) but not until much later.

This is another example of the way RTX changed the game such that the old head to head comparisons don’t tell the whole story.


I cheated a little here and you caught it! Death Stranding is a game that doesn’t benefit much from the huge CPU jump. I picked it so we could focus on the GPU.
Also, for what it's worth (not a lot), I think subsequent DLSS updates have really improved artifacting in various titles. The DF comparison was done with the 2.0 release.
 
Whatever it turns out to be, someone will have been posting it under our noses all along

So my thinking is, is it Delight? Nate's been describing things as delightful recently, it could be an oblique sort of reference to ray tracing, and its the kind of weird name Nintendo would like
Good catch. I personally like the connection of those dots, but would it not be too obscure for the general audience to pick up on?
 
my main albeit minor question here is that if the console is comparable to PS4 in terms of power, how would stuff like Botw with 0 loading times, matrix tech demo & possibly other rumored/speculated stuff (like Mihoyo games & FF7R integrade) work there?

obviously there will be massive compromises but i'm moreso curious on the technical aspect, as in would it be massively similar to the whole switch port deal: that is, it doesn't look great but it runs fine
Comparing different hardware from different vendors with different types of technology and architecture is always gonna be confusing and rather fruitless.
 
Comparing different hardware from different vendors with different types of technology and architecture is always gonna be confusing and rather fruitless.
i mean console comparisons are most of the time helpful to understand whether a game is workable or not, and how would they end up looking & running, that's how most people did with last gen 3rd party ports for switch
 
As for release date, I’m still on the same team as long ago.

#TeamEarliestRealisticReleaseDateAccordingToFamiboards

So March 2024… at the moment
 
Is this supposed to be indicative of how far along MP4 is? Because it's not.
Yeah, the game is so close to release, I think we should stop talking about it, at this point we have too much intel about the game : story, gameplay, looks, soundtrack, physics, price, release window, Gabe Newell's feets size, how many times Ridley kissed Admiral Dane...
 
Interesting find. IDK what that is about then. We know that there are product testers working at Retro Studios since October 2022 at least, and is still working there according to their LinkedIn profile.

If MP4 isn't ready, well, then IDK why they would release MP1 Remastered unless they have a timeline on MP4. Goes against the rumors too, that they sat on MP1 Remastered for so long. Why release MP1 Remastered all of sudden unless they have a timeline plan in mind?

And no, it's not to itch our Metroid needs because we've been waiting so long. We got Metroid Dread, a GREAT GAME in its own right. They didn't release MP1 Remastered out of concern about our Metroid craving, Metroid Dread would served that need nicely.
It could be the case that they released Metroid prime 1 remastered early because they want to spread out the releases of Metroid prime 2 and 3 as well before the release of Metroid prime 4, not super likely but a possibility i guess.
 
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my main albeit minor question here is that if the console is comparable to PS4 in terms of power, how would stuff like Botw with 0 loading times, matrix tech demo & possibly other rumored/speculated stuff (like Mihoyo games & FF7R integrade) work there?

obviously there will be massive compromises but i'm moreso curious on the technical aspect, as in would it be massively similar to the whole switch port deal: that is, it doesn't look great but it runs fine
The part that's "comparable to ps4" is just the GPU (not counting DLSS/RT). The CPU will be significantly faster, and the SOC apparently has dedicated decompression hardware, and the system likely has much faster storage than the PS4's hard drive.
 
So I'm confused by this. I was under the impression some of the more higher end estimates for drake (especially if it's on 4nm) were above 3.5 TF? That comes pretty close to the PS4 Pro's 4TF, doesn't it? Also won't it have a far superior CPU on top of that?

So that's confusing!

This is what I understood as well. If it manages to hit 3.5TFLOPS raw power, that's within 15% of a PS4 Pro, and that's not accounting for architectural upgrades since a like-for-like tflops comparison doesn't take those into account. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me people said 'before' DLSS, because surely it [The DLSS] can account for that 15% and way more.
 
El Analista de Bits Ray Reconstruction/DLSS 3.5 analysis:


This is what I understood as well. If it manages to hit 3.5TFLOPS raw power, that's within 15% of a PS4 Pro, and that's not accounting for architectural upgrades since a like-for-like tflops comparison doesn't take those into account. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me people said 'before' DLSS, because surely it can account for that 15% and way more.
Oldpuck (rather sensible) point is that comparison between architectures is a fool errand. As he said, there's too many differences between the Ampere Nvidia uArch and the GCN 4.0 AMD uArch. And his point, to make it even easier to understand, is very simplified and doesn't take into account that PS4 Pro and Switch 2 are very different machines, with different bandwidth, CPUs, IO, RAM, etc. When you try to compare both, there will be trade-offs between each other. Some areas the PS4 Pro will excel over Switch 2, some areas where Switch 2 will excel over PS4 Pro. Thinking of Switch 2 as a comparable device as PS4 but with modern features and access to higher resolutions output due to DLSS is a very fair level of expectations.
 
In @Raccoon's defense it kinda sounds like they were making a pico de gallo or salsa fresca, which, yeah, don't put that in a blender.
Maybe Pico De Gallo?
This is how I do my Pico De Gallo
Do you mean using a blender instead of a food processor? Cause the only salsa I make without some kind of blending is Pico de gallo.

I can’t speak for Raccoon, but we had a big garden, so my dad would can a lot, and what we would do, was peel and chop up a bunch of tomatoes, as well as onions and a couple different kind of peppers. Throw them into a large stock pot with some other ingredients (herbs, canning salt, I think vinegar, etc…) and simmer. Then we’d pour that into canning jars and continue the process with the water bath, etc…

(We’d cut the veggies relatively smallish, and end up with like a chunky salsa. That’s what my sister would then blend up to make even smoother.)
 
I use an immersion blender when I make my salsa Verde
salsa verde is not what I assumed we were talking about here


I can’t speak for Raccoon, but we had a big garden, so my dad would can a lot, and what we would do, was peel and chop up a bunch of tomatoes, as well as onions and a couple different kind of peppers. Throw them into a large stock pot with some other ingredients (herbs, canning salt, I think vinegar, etc…) and simmer. Then we’d pour that into canning jars and continue the process with the water bath, etc…

(We’d cut the veggies relatively smallish, and end up with like a chunky salsa. That’s what my sister would then blend up to make even smoother.)
what a nostalgic account of many an afternoon...
 
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