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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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BreakAtmo said:
Well the hardware would be but that doesn't mean the power draw in handheld mode would be sufficient to feed it. Series S has RT acceleration but there are games that shut off RT on it while enabling it on Series X.

On the other hand, the Steam Deck can do playable RT in some games and the Switch will be better at it, so we should absolutely get RT handheld in some titles.
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I'm going to be 100% clear:

That's not how it works.

RT is not in and of itself "power hungry".

And do you neglect to consider that TV mode on Nintendo Switch, and indeed NG Switch, is ALSO power restricted?

It's a low power device with RT hardware made for that scenario. If power was an issue it wouldn't have RT at all. Yet it does. So it isn't. Therefore it's completely irrelevant to its presence in handheld mode.

There is no scenario where RT is simply not possible in handheld mode. If a dev wants to use RT in handheld mode, they can, and if they don't, they won't. It's that simple.
 
I had a very wild theory at first that closest third party partners (like sega, capcom, bandai namco & square) were given dev kit earlier than others, whereas others (both familiar to switch, new to switch or even new to nintendo consoles in general) were shown what the hardware is capable of behind the scenes & then given dev kits after Gamescom was over
 
How does Nintendo market the SWITCH2?

the-super-mario-bros-movie-mario-movie.gif


New 3D Mario game, uses basically same 3D models as movie, VO by same cast, trailer drops with reveal of the new system, is a Holiday 2024 title, Switch 2 exclusive.

Marketing finished.
 
This is probably nothing but speculation on their part, based on previous rumors, but it caught my eye. This comes from a poster on Era, a verified developer:

Post# 1,342:
“It's so exciting. It's such a smart solution that would make the Switch 2 way more relevant in the generational conversation than ever. If all stars align, this could get much more support than the OG Switch (also coming from it's massive LTD success that is a big reassurance to developers). Like fuck me, give me a 30fps 360-upscaled-to-1080 The Witcher 4 on Switch 2, please! I only wish they went with 7"/720p/OLED instead of 8"/1080p/LCD though.
I am personally very excited as an industry person, but I am sure if I ask my devs they won't be as excited as I am, lol“
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www.resetera.com

[Eurogamer/VGC] Nintendo quietly showed the next Nintendo Switch at Gamescom, runs The Matrix UE5 Tech Demo with "Comparable" Graphics to PS5 via DLSS Rumor

I guess if I tell you that the current Switch is around the PS3+ level in raw power performance, but it has a lot of more features that allows it to run games that the PS3 would struggle with, would be easier for you to understand that this new Switch will have the raw power performance of PS4+...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Did this person just confirm that the screen is in fact 8"/1080p/LCD? I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but "Verified Developer" made me wonder.
 
Concernt said:
I'm going to be 100% clear:

That's not how it works.

RT is not in and of itself "power hungry".

And do you neglect to consider that TV mode on Nintendo Switch, and indeed NG Switch, is ALSO power restricted?

It's a low power device with RT hardware made for that scenario. If power was an issue it wouldn't have RT at all. Yet it does. So it isn't. Therefore it's completely irrelevant to its presence in handheld mode.

There is no scenario where RT is simply not possible in handheld mode. If a dev wants to use RT in handheld mode, they can, and if they don't, they won't. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

That's literally what I said in the following post - it's going to come down to what devs need, on a game-by-game basis. RT is taxing on performance, and it's very possible for it to be feasible at a certain power draw (like 15 or 25W) but not at a lower one (like 7W), depending on the game. Not literally impossible (I never claimed such a thing), but taxing enough that it ceases to be worth it in their opinion.

We also don't know what the power draws actually are. If the handheld mode stays at 7W but the docked mode is upgraded to 25W, it's quite possible that the hardware might have been primarily intended for the latter. But I doubt it - as I said earlier, the Steam Deck already handles RT decently despite rDNA2's handicap in that area, so I fully expect to see RT on Switch 2's handheld mode frequently.
 
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GPKs3 said:
This is probably nothing but speculation on their part, based on previous rumors, but it caught my eye. This comes from a poster on Era, a verified developer:

Post# 1,342:


www.resetera.com

[Eurogamer/VGC] Nintendo quietly showed the next Nintendo Switch at Gamescom, runs The Matrix UE5 Tech Demo with "Comparable" Graphics to PS5 via DLSS Rumor

I guess if I tell you that the current Switch is around the PS3+ level in raw power performance, but it has a lot of more features that allows it to run games that the PS3 would struggle with, would be easier for you to understand that this new Switch will have the raw power performance of PS4+...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Did this person just confirm that the screen is in fact 8"/1080p/LCD? I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but "Verified Developer" made me wonder.
Click to expand...
That screen was rumored by VGC and others a few weeks back already.
 
This news is amazing!!! If Switch 2 is in a better position than Switch 1 was at launch, considering the diminishing visual returns PS5 and Xbox Series X and the DLSS and RTX advantages the Switch 2 has over them, then surely it will get more third party ports? Not as much compromising will need to be done.

So if the visuals of Switch 2 are comparable to PS5/Xbox Series X then why would anyone ever buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X? Switch 2 will play the same 3rd party games (AAA and indie) as them at quality that's basically the same, as well as Nintendo first party games and all while being portable on top of that. The average buyer would have all they need in one place. Won't this shift the general public even more in Nintendo's favour? I can't see how it wouldn't. This is insane and I can't wait for a world where Nintendo are on top in every metric. I can't see how this wouldn't happen. Am I right or am I crazy? Let me know.

Also hi... long time lurker since the Switch Pro days 😅
 
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GPKs3 said:
This is probably nothing but speculation on their part, based on previous rumors, but it caught my eye. This comes from a poster on Era, a verified developer:

Post# 1,342:


www.resetera.com

[Eurogamer/VGC] Nintendo quietly showed the next Nintendo Switch at Gamescom, runs The Matrix UE5 Tech Demo with "Comparable" Graphics to PS5 via DLSS Rumor

I guess if I tell you that the current Switch is around the PS3+ level in raw power performance, but it has a lot of more features that allows it to run games that the PS3 would struggle with, would be easier for you to understand that this new Switch will have the raw power performance of PS4+...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Did this person just confirm that the screen is in fact 8"/1080p/LCD? I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but "Verified Developer" made me wonder.
Click to expand...
Sounds more like he's just basing that on the existing rumor mill.
 
Skittzo said:
That screen was rumored by VGC and others a few weeks back already.
Click to expand...
Right, but this poster is talking as if 8"/1080p/LCD is confirmed and final.

" I only wish they went with 7"/720p/OLED instead of 8"/1080p/LCD though."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
 
GPKs3 said:
This is probably nothing but speculation on their part, based on previous rumors, but it caught my eye. This comes from a poster on Era, a verified developer:

Post# 1,342:


www.resetera.com

[Eurogamer/VGC] Nintendo quietly showed the next Nintendo Switch at Gamescom, runs The Matrix UE5 Tech Demo with "Comparable" Graphics to PS5 via DLSS Rumor

I guess if I tell you that the current Switch is around the PS3+ level in raw power performance, but it has a lot of more features that allows it to run games that the PS3 would struggle with, would be easier for you to understand that this new Switch will have the raw power performance of PS4+...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

Did this person just confirm that the screen is in fact 8"/1080p/LCD? I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but "Verified Developer" made me wonder.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure he's just assuming the rumours from a few weeks ago are true. I wouldn't jump to conclusions with that sort of thing.
 
mjayer said:
How does Nintendo market the SWITCH2?

the-super-mario-bros-movie-mario-movie.gif


New 3D Mario game, uses basically same 3D models as movie, VO by same cast, trailer drops with reveal of the new system, is a Holiday 2024 title, Switch 2 exclusive.

Marketing finished.
Click to expand...
God I hope not.
 
GPKs3 said:
Right, but this poster is talking as if 8"/1080p/LCD is confirmed and final.

" I only wish they went with 7"/720p/OLED instead of 8"/1080p/LCD though."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Click to expand...
When you're commenting on one rumor from VGC it's natural to be talking as if their previous rumors on the same subject are fact, at least just for discussion purposes.
 
People need to let go of the idea that Nintendo would actively pay literal Hollywood actors the money that they voice the characters in videogames.

ESPECIALLY since as of yesterday, we know that Martinet isn't voicing Mario in Wonder, so they already have a new VA for Mario to be used in future games.

Really, people.
 
Nintendo should go retro with the marketing, call it the super switch and then have commercials saying the old
catchphrase of the SNES era, ''now you're playing with power, super power!''.
 
With respect to ray traying the expectation was it will be possible but more limited on the Switch 2 hartdware due to the number of tensor cores available and the power envelope.
I think that's still the case, since the report did not actually say how extensive the RT is. could also be something enabled in the demo to show what the system could do, but may not translate into every game in all aspects if devs are balancing performance vs. visuals.
 
Dekuman said:
With respect to ray traying the expectation was it will be possible but more limited on the Switch 2 hartdware due to the number of tensor cores available and the power envelope.
I think that's still the case, since the report did not actually say how extensive the RT is. could also be something enabled in the demo to show what the system could do, but may not translate into every game in all aspects if devs are balancing performance vs. visuals.
Click to expand...
Tensor cores don't control RT, the RT cores do. While you're right that it's not clear how well or extensive the ray tracing is on Switch 2 the fact that it does have dedicated hardware for it (12 RT cores I believe) gives it a massive leg up in terms of ray tracing efficiency.

Then if you do factor in games that use DLSS 3.5 with ray reconstruction that only further enhances it.
 
RE: Ray-tracing & handheld viability,

Is it even possible to quickly "toggle" ray-tracing in the way that would be required for docking the Switch seamlessly?
Switch is literally the only thing I play games on so I genuinely don't know.
 
Skittzo said:
Tensor cores don't control RT, the RT cores do. While you're right that it's not clear how well or extensive the ray tracing is on Switch 2 the fact that it does have dedicated hardware for it (12 RT cores I believe) gives it a massive leg up in terms of ray tracing efficiency.

Then if you do factor in games that use DLSS 3.5 with ray reconstruction that only further enhances it.
Click to expand...
The conspiratorial part of me wonders if Ray Reconstruction emerged from NVidia trying to get higher quality from fewer rays specifically for Nintendo's use case.

catonkatonk said:
RE: Ray-tracing & handheld viability,

Is it even possible to quickly "toggle" ray-tracing in the way that would be required for docking the Switch seamlessly?
Switch is literally the only thing I play games on so I genuinely don't know.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is, but having to plan for that means you're going to have to design your lighting scenario for both ray-traced and non-ray traced solutions, which is...twice the work.
 
bossmeran said:
This news is amazing!!! If Switch 2 is in a better position than Switch 1 was at launch, considering the diminishing visual returns PS5 and Xbox Series X and the DLSS and RTX advantages the Switch 2 has over them, then surely it will get more third party ports? Not as much compromising will need to be done.

So if the visuals of Switch 2 are comparable to PS5/Xbox Series X then why would anyone ever buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X? Switch 2 will play the same 3rd party games (AAA and indie) as them at quality that's basically the same, as well as Nintendo first party games and all while being portable on top of that. The average buyer would have all they need in one place. Won't this shift the general public even more in Nintendo's favour? I can't see how it wouldn't. This is insane and I can't wait for a world where Nintendo are on top in every metric. I can't see how this wouldn't happen. Am I right or am I crazy? Let me know.

Also hi... long time lurker since the Switch Pro days 😅
Click to expand...
Hi former lurker, you’re crazy!
 
bossmeran said:
This news is amazing!!! If Switch 2 is in a better position than Switch 1 was at launch, considering the diminishing visual returns PS5 and Xbox Series X and the DLSS and RTX advantages the Switch 2 has over them, then surely it will get more third party ports? Not as much compromising will need to be done.

So if the visuals of Switch 2 are comparable to PS5/Xbox Series X then why would anyone ever buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X? Switch 2 will play the same 3rd party games (AAA and indie) as them at quality that's basically the same, as well as Nintendo first party games and all while being portable on top of that. The average buyer would have all they need in one place. Won't this shift the general public even more in Nintendo's favour? I can't see how it wouldn't. This is insane and I can't wait for a world where Nintendo are on top in every metric. I can't see how this wouldn't happen. Am I right or am I crazy? Let me know.

Also hi... long time lurker since the Switch Pro days 😅
Click to expand...
'Comparable' does not mean 'as good as.' The Series S is also comparable to the Series X and PS5.
 
bossmeran said:
This news is amazing!!! If Switch 2 is in a better position than Switch 1 was at launch, considering the diminishing visual returns PS5 and Xbox Series X and the DLSS and RTX advantages the Switch 2 has over them, then surely it will get more third party ports? Not as much compromising will need to be done.

So if the visuals of Switch 2 are comparable to PS5/Xbox Series X then why would anyone ever buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X? Switch 2 will play the same 3rd party games (AAA and indie) as them at quality that's basically the same, as well as Nintendo first party games and all while being portable on top of that. The average buyer would have all they need in one place. Won't this shift the general public even more in Nintendo's favour? I can't see how it wouldn't. This is insane and I can't wait for a world where Nintendo are on top in every metric. I can't see how this wouldn't happen. Am I right or am I crazy? Let me know.

Also hi... long time lurker since the Switch Pro days 😅
Click to expand...
well the Switch 2 won't come close to the PS5/Xbox Series XS regardless in terms of visuals.

It will find ways to close the gap and punch above its weight in specific games/situations but in the same way Switch has shortcoming compared to PS4/Xbox One, this next gen Switch will have issues compared to PS5/Xbox Series XS.

I think it's better to focus on the fact that it will be a massive jump in performance and the possibilities it'll offer to Nintendo world class developers (as well as offering a slew of third party games that didn't make the cut on current Switch for XYZ reasons).
 
catonkatonk said:
RE: Ray-tracing & handheld viability,

Is it even possible to quickly "toggle" ray-tracing in the way that would be required for docking the Switch seamlessly?
Switch is literally the only thing I play games on so I genuinely don't know.
Click to expand...
1. It's possible.
2. Games won't have to: It will support RT in handheld mode. That isn't even in question.
 
kvetcha said:
'Comparable' does not mean 'as good as.' The Series S is also comparable to the Series X and PS5.
Click to expand...
Though the Series S will recive full parity with every Series X game for the rest of the generation (despite some devs grumbling about it)

In that case, "comparable" is more than good enough. Even if it doesnt match the raw power of the big boys... if it gets devs porting current gen games and having them look good on Switch 2 in on a 4K tv, then that's what really matters. The difference in power isnt a big deal at that point
 
Joy-Boy said:
Though the Series S will recive full parity with every Series X game for the rest of the generation (despite some devs grumbling about it)
Click to expand...
Well, Larian just got an exception for split-screen multiplayer on the Series S, so that situation seems to be in flux.
 
kvetcha said:
Well, Larian just got an exception for split-screen multiplayer on the Series S, so that situation seems to be in flux.
Click to expand...
True, but as of now that's just a one off instance. We'll probably get more deals and compromises down the road, but the games will still make it on the system. I think most will happily sacrifice something like split screen multiplayer if it means getting a Switch 2 version of Bladurs Gate 3
 
kvetcha said:
The conspiratorial part of me wonders if Ray Reconstruction emerged from NVidia trying to get higher quality from fewer rays specifically for Nintendo's use case.


Yes, it is, but having to plan for that means you're going to have to design your lighting scenario for both ray-traced and non-ray traced solutions, which is...twice the work.
Click to expand...
I think twice the work is an understatement
You literally have to do two whole workflows for the lighting pipeline including baking the lighting which sucks.
I just don’t think it’s feasible
If the hardware is there they’ll use it no matter what mode… and they’ll scale the requirements with the resolution as per usual.
 
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@bossmeran has a point. The decision calculus is now impacted by Switch 2 thanks to diminishing returns, scalability, and DLSS.

Resharing this, comparison between Ratchet and Clank from PS5 (top) and Steam Deck (bottom).

92643470-vollbild.jpg
RatchetClankDefault3.jpg


One is obviously better. If you scrutinize the image you can identify the aliasing, lower texture resolution, and so on. If you blow it up on a 4K TV it will be more apparent. The Steam Deck version also runs at half the framerate.

-- but on a tablet screen or living room viewing distance, how noticeable is all of this to the 'layman'? Even if they identify the top one as better, if you tell them the device spitting out the bottom image can also be carried in your backpack, they'd start to weigh the benefits of the portable device more seriously.

In my experience, 'low' or even lower than low settings don't really result in potato graphics anymore, and I expect a lot of the issues that plagued Switch 'impossible' ports to be alleviated by the increased CPU and RAM as well. Then you introduce DLSS into the equation and you start to muddy the waters more.

There will still be games that miss the Switch 2, or are ported and absolutely push the system and bring it to its knees, probably resulting in some absurd 144p to 720p DLSS or whatever, or being CPU bound and cutting a lot of features. But how common will this be .. actually? Genuine question. And if a game misses the Switch 2, then there's no comparison to be made in the first place. Switch 2 will still be replete with excellent looking Switch games, PS4 ports, cross-gen games, indies, and so on so it's not like there's a shortage.
 
bossmeran said:
So if the visuals of Switch 2 are comparable to PS5/Xbox Series X then why would anyone ever buy a PS5 or Xbox Series X? Switch 2 will play the same 3rd party games (AAA and indie) as them at quality that's basically the same, as well as Nintendo first party games and all while being portable on top of that. The average buyer would have all they need in one place. Won't this shift the general public even more in Nintendo's favour? I can't see how it wouldn't. This is insane and I can't wait for a world where Nintendo are on top in every metric. I can't see how this wouldn't happen. Am I right or am I crazy? Let me know.

Also hi... long time lurker since the Switch Pro days 😅
Click to expand...
To play exclusives from those consoles or to play online or to play with their preferred controller or plenty of other reasons.
Also, "comparable" doesn't mean "as good as".
 
Joy-Boy said:
True, but as of now that's just a one off instance. We'll probably get more deals and compromises down the road, but the games will still make it on the system. I think most will happily sacrifice something like split screen multiplayer if it means getting a Switch 2 version of Bladurs Gate 3
Click to expand...
While Switch is probably the console with the MOST split screen content at the moment, being a handheld definitely makes a lack of it more forgivable. You don't need a whole second TV! You just need to bring your console to your friend's place.

Though I definitely, certainly, absolutely hope we see improvements to local multiplayer, especially around LAN. Rather than splitting LAN and ad-hoc, just gave one "Local" option. If the consoles are on the same network, it uses LAN, if they're not, it uses ad-hoc. Being able to use ad-hoc, LAN and online at the same time would also be nice.
 
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