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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Nintendo Switch was able to have very impressives games with just 4GB RAM, imagine what they could with a 12GB RAM, next 3D Mario will be amazing
Oh, I have no doubt that the prospective system will produce some formidable results. Could also be more busier and more challenging battle maps in a new Fire Emblem title. There’s plenty to be excited about. But I still believe in the 16GB, as the case for it has become ever stronger in the last 18 months. The Baldur’s Gate 3 situation is a point of consideration there, too. If developers demand 16GB, I believe it will happen. Also, note that the current Switch had 4GB RAM in the dev kits and released with 4GB RAM in the retail product, when some wondered if it could be a 2GB RAM device. It isn’t so unthinkable that if there’s 16GB RAM in the dev kits, the retail product can also have 16GB.

12 being the consumer product and 16 being the dev kit makes a lot of sense, 12 would still likely be really impressive!
I never said it doesn’t make sense, only that there are reasons to believe in the possibility of more, which don’t amount to blind faith and nebulous optimism. I don’t wish to get jumped for the nth time for saying it, but I am simply taking, at face value, a tweet from an official Nvidia account which alluded to a 16GB RAM console. Not a Celebrity Youtwitch Internet Podcaster, or a rumour-milling clickbait farm, but a credible source in the horse’s mouth. I also did a basic search, “How much RAM for RT and DLSS?”, and while some even suggested 32GB, most had 16GB as their standard requirement. We had uncovered a lot about the SoC, but it was clear that the RAM amount wasn’t nailed on. If this had released last year, or around the time of Tears, I would’ve agreed that 12GB is the likeliest. But phones are being equipped with 16GB as we speak, and that was true last year, too. So, I also suspect that it will be there as a future-proof measure, then there is the “uncharted territory” to consider - A prospective successor will be expected to have a 7-year cycle, or longer, if one accounts for the next cross-gen. So, it won’t want to be left behind quickly. For these reasons and more, I believe Nintendo will ultimately reach the same conclusion. Now, all of that said, 12GB is still more than the XSS, and I agree that it isn’t a bad thing!! BUT it’s that cross-gen point for me, when the successors to XSS/XSX arrive. How soon Microsoft kills them off could also affect the support for Nintendo’s platform, in that the appetite to continue smoking games for systems at that end of the power spectrum might not be there. I suspect that this time, we will also see more “same date releases”.
 
The performance for the new system definitely sounds exciting but I'm really curious how they'll change online interactions, I feel nintendo is still really behind when it comes to party chat systems and it leave a lot of area for improvement
As long as Nintendo continues to skew to a younger audience, they will keep native party chat systems at a distance, those things are a predators paradise.
 
Everything I've heard about Drake today is music to my ears.

If the ceiling was PS4 power I would've been onboard. But the fact Nintendo is showing that it's more than that out the gate is super promising. Even more so because they very likely demoed this to 3rd party devs which people always have as a question mark for every new Nintendo gen.

I am beyond excited. Sounds like even though Switch 2 won't reach XSS levels let alone PS5 but it will be able to run comparable software at an acceptable state which is all that matters.

This so much. I never had a PlayStation 4 or Xbox One, so for me it is all new. I know what the games from that gen look like, and to think that we can play games like it in handheld sounds already amazing to me. That it is even going beyond that is the best kind of icing on the cake.
 
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As long as Nintendo continues to skew to a younger audience, they will keep native party chat systems at a distance, those things are a predators paradise.
Public chats in games are cesspools anyways even without predators. I don't understand how anyone sees public voice chat on the Xbox or PlayStation as a positive, but that's just me being introverted I suppose.
 
Public chats in games are cesspools anyways even without predators. I don't understand how anyone sees public voice chat on the Xbox or PlayStation as a positive, but that's just me being introverted I suppose.
Push-to-talk is occasionally fun depending on the game (I have very fond memories of late-night Team Fortress 2 games where we all sang Snake Eater in Voice Chat and the ear-damage that occured from that), but on a Nintendo system? It's very hit or miss and I feel confident that Nintendo wouldn't allow it.

However, considering Nintendo already has a Parental-Controls system on the Switch, i see little reason why they couldn't just... "disable voice chat in select games" with those controls.
 
Think Splatoon and Mario Kart may even strive for 120, they feel like the perfect candidates for as close to seamless as possible, when you get used to going 120 on something like Rocket League or Fortnite the jump back down to 60 feels like a 60-to-30 transition
I've been playing at 120 for a while now and I honestly barely notice a difference between 120 and 60. I wouldn't be able to tell if I didn't know what I was looking for.

The desktop's mouse cursor does feel a lot less smooth though. Scrolling and the cursor are where I notice the 120 the most
 
I've been playing at 120 for a while now and I honestly barely notice a difference between 120 and 60. I wouldn't be able to tell if I didn't know what I was looking for.

The desktop's mouse cursor does feel a lot less smooth though. Scrolling and the cursor are where I notice the 120 the most
Really fast, twitchy movement makes it apparent.
 
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As long as Nintendo continues to skew to a younger audience, they will keep native party chat systems at a distance, those things are a predators paradise.
Very true. They’re havens for predators, and have been used as Alt-Right breeding grounds, while GamerGate/QAnon/TwitterFiles and other such spaces have also operated there.
 
Imagining UE5 Dragon Quest XII handheld on Switch 2 🤤
Tbh, there's a lot of things you can think about being ported and be excited about it. Personally I'm very excited for any potential releases involving Monolith Soft, Next Level Games, Grezzo and the Zelda/3D Mario EPD teams. Frankly the only limiting factor, at least to me, is what third-parties are going to do with the new system. Frankly, the prospect of Square Enix doing more work with Nintendo and porting their modern games to the system is an extremely exciting prospect.

The only limiting factor for this system right now is "how long do we have to wait".
 
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Yes, but, as reported, it was shown on hardware targeting Switch Successor specs and not Switch Successor itself. Such a demo would be beneficial to Nintendo in the sense it shows that the hardware could do --when using DLSS features-- & aids Epic to market UE5 as a viable option to partners making games for the device.


I have a few details about how it ran on the target spec hardware -- but am reluctant to share such details right now.
Can anyone find a picture of the "Runs on Ultra 64" image from Cruis'n The USA"? Cause I can't find it and that's what this feels like.
 
The OG Switch was essentially a proof of concept for Nintendo/Nvidia and we saw the impact it had.

IF rumblings are true of the next iterations potential power, and it’s allows for it to receive comparable versions of major multiplat releases (Even if its just Madden/NBA 2K), I personally believe you’ll see a huge shift in the industry’s general approach to console gaming.
 
I still believe in the 16GB RAM because the Nvidia tweet I shared, written this past January, post-tapeout, was from the horse’s mouth. There are other reasons, but I prefer to lend an official account more credence.
Nvidia can only make suggestions to Nintendo. Nintendo ultimately has the final say on how much RAM the retail hardware has.
 
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What are the improvements Nintendo will be able to do with 12 GB RAM instead of 4 GB RAM? I get better framerates and load times but what more will happen with that big increase in RAM?
The next Pokémon game can support triple and rotation battles. Possibly horde vs. horde battles.
 
Seeing the video earlier of the UE5 demo running on a HDD gives me hope for fast internal, external and carts. I imagine Nintendo will require frame rate parity regardless of storage medium, in the case of UE5 matrix demo this was not the case when running on a HDD, because of this I'm hoping Nintendo ditches micro sd and opts for something else that can get closer to the internal medias storage speed.
 
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This thing might be a dream come true for every Nintendo fan in existence
1694107617238470.png
Explain it to me, like I'm 5.
 
Article is hilarious
From my sources now: The DLSS version shown behind closed doors by the “Nintendo Switch 2″ tech demo was 3.1 and not 3.5 as reported or pointed out by Eurogamer. Ray-Tracing is indeed possible and the RAM memory I was informed of was 12 GB for the consumer.”
"RAM memory"
pavitr-prabhakar-shubman-gill-still-1.jpg
Everybody is an insider nowadays.
 
Nvidia can only makes suggestions to Nintendo. Nintendo ultimately has the final say on how much RAM the retail hardware has.
It wouldn’t be Nvidia alone in making suggestions. It would be other developers, as well as a combination of the other circumstances I mentioned. Product development feedback is a natural part of the process. But I come back to the fact that the tweet was written after tape-out, and ask why they put out something showing a 16GB RAM product at all. All I’m saying, in a speculation thread, is that this is credible and with merit. There is also history across the board. Microsoft were advised to put 512MB in the X360, Sony were told “you’re done if you don’t go with 8GB” for the PS4 (Everything at their reveal ran on 4GB dev kits), and Capcom suggested 4GB would be better for the Switch. Every one of those responded accordingly to secure critical support, and as a result, their platforms were successes.
 
It wouldn’t be Nvidia alone in making suggestions. It would be other developers, as well as a combination of the other circumstances I mentioned. Product development feedback is a natural part of the process. But I come back to the fact that the tweet was written after tape-out, and ask why they put out something showing a 16GB RAM product at all. All I’m saying, in a speculation thread, is that this is credible and with merit. There is also history across the board. Microsoft were advised to put 512MB in the X360, Sony were told “you’re done if you don’t go with 8GB” for the PS4 (Everything at their reveal ran on 4GB dev kits), and Capcom suggested 4GB would be better for the Switch. Every one of those responded accordingly to secure critical support, and as a result, their platforms were successes.
That's it. While 16gb would make some game look nicer, and give some devs an easier time, those 4 extra gigs probably wouldn't make or break many ports.
 
Think Splatoon and Mario Kart may even strive for 120, they feel like the perfect candidates for as close to seamless as possible, when you get used to going 120 on something like Rocket League or Fortnite the jump back down to 60 feels like a 60-to-30 transition

The rumored F-zero GX remastered is obviously saved for Switch 2 and will run @120fps 👀
 
Can someone explain DLSS to me and how it impacts Nintendo's next system as someone who knows nothing about that kinda stuff?

Imagine a 2 year old using his limited skills to paint the Mona Lisa.

DLSS takes that doodle and converts it into what the Mona Lisa painting actually looks like.

That's DLSS.
 
just to note, the Switch already had 4GB of memory before Capcom came into the picture
Other versions of that Tegra SoC had less, but even there, it isn’t clear how much of it was available for games at the time. It’s possible that they could’ve said “From this amount, a larger allocation for games can do it”. The point is that developers were involved, and put forth their grievances. They did help to influence the final product. This is also the reason why I find certain reports about the XSS wild. The point still stands.
 
When Ultra Instinct Shaggy uses 1% of his power, DLSS makes it so that it appears that he is using a massive previously untenable 2% of his power
 
So I assume the performance stuff is about when its in Docked mode right?

Assuming we know what its like in docked mode and will have 12GB of RAM and a SSD internal storage, do we have an idea of what the performance will look like in handheld mode?
 
That's it. While 16gb would make some game look nicer, and give some devs an easier time, those 4 extra gigs probably wouldn't make or break many ports.
Perhaps not in the immediate and medium term, but by the next cross-gen, we can’t be sure. If it means they can avoid multiple BG3/XSS situations, they’ll make the correct call. It’s as much about possible future-proofing measures, and the territory they’re in no longer being uncharted. How they might weather that storm is a challenge that can’t be overlooked. We can at least consider these possibilities as we speculate.
 
So I assume the performance stuff is about when its in Docked mode right?

Assuming we know what its like in docked mode and will have 12GB of RAM and a SSD internal storage, do we have an idea of what the performance will look like in handheld mode?
half the resolution, like the switch most likely
 
Can anyone find a picture of the "Runs on Ultra 64" image from Cruis'n The USA"? Cause I can't find it and that's what this feels like.
It's not really anything like that at all. That was something targetted towards consumers, meanwhile some third party developers had N64 devkits all the way back in late '94 (I know Doom 64 for example was one of the first games to start development on the system). It would be extremely unwise for Nintendo to decieve developers in that way.
 
The performance for the new system definitely sounds exciting but I'm really curious how they'll change online interactions, I feel nintendo is still really behind when it comes to party chat systems and it leave a lot of area for improvement
I think they’ve actually outlasted the need to have their own chat system. Discord is almost the universal way to communicate. Not saying it would be beneficial in some way but as others have mentioned, there’s more harm than good nowadays especially with their systems being more attractive for younger gamers.
 
I saw someone earlier in the thread posting an image of a theme mockup that they wanted to come true with the Switch 2, and that reminded me that I wanted to make a small edit/mockup of what I would want a Switch 2/ New Switch OS menu to look like in the future. I really think it could take notes from the 3DS menu and allow for more games to be shown at once on the home screen if the user desires it. I think this one small change would be really nice for the Switch 2, as even though we have the show all games button on the menu, I don't find myself using it much because it's so out of the way to get to.
It's nothing too crazy, but it would be nice to see this one change with the new console if its menu differs at all.
switch_2_menu_mockup.png
Genuinely my one hope if they stick with a similar looking UI is for the NSO icon to match the design theme of the others…Nintendo flaring up my OCD every time I go to the home page
 
I think they’ve actually outlasted the need to have their own chat system. Discord is almost the universal way to communicate. Not saying it would be beneficial in some way but as others have mentioned, there’s more harm than good nowadays especially with their systems being more attractive for younger gamers.
The Switch 2 having discord integrated like the PS5 and Xbox would be insane. My current set up has me using a capture card to get game audio into my computer so I can voice chat with friends and play Switch games. It's super clunky and kinda expensive. I wish there was a simpler solution.
 
Can someone explain DLSS to me and how it impacts Nintendo's next system as someone who knows nothing about that kinda stuff?
Native 1440p
11904602020123021553.png


DLSS - Game is rendering internally at 1706x960, AI upscaled to 1440p
11904602020123021555.png


What does this mean for Switch 2? It can render games at lower internal resolutions, and dedicated hardware known as tensor cores will use an upscaling algorithm to reconstruct it into higher resolutions.

This saves GPU resources. Instead of rendering more pixels to create a 1440p image, it can a create a prettier lower resolution picture, and handing it off to the tensor cores to 'fill in detail' to paint the higher resolution canvas.

So the next 3D Mario could pack a ton of graphical effects and detail into a 1080p frame at 60 FPS, and DLSS will turn it into a 1440p / 4K image before it reaches your TV. Alternatively a demanding third-party port could be rendering at 540p internally, and the developer can enable DLSS to produce a 1080p image.

I am oversimplifying it, and there are caveats (a developer needs to inject DLSS into the pipeline) but it has become a more accessible technology in game engines and a valuable tool in extracting performance without expending so much precious GPU resources on just rendering 'more' pixels.
 
Nintendo rumored to be collaborating with Google on a standalone VR Headset


This looks impossible to me for one glaring reason: micro-LED isn't coming to budget consumer VR headsets for many more years to come (not just one or two as the article seems to assert), barring several miracles. The super high-end Apple VR headset that costs $3500 and comes from one the largest parts buyers in the world could only manage to get micro-OLED displays - and the yields on even those displays are much lower than anticipated, pushing production expectations lower and later.

You can't event purchase a micro-LED TV smaller than 70 inches, and the smallest proof of concept that Samsung has been able to produce so far was 50 inches earlier this year - but that was only a proof of concept.

IMO micro-OLED would a viable option for a company like Nintendo in another 4-6 years - micro-LED, maybe 6-8.
And besides all that, Google would much sooner make a headset partnering with Samsung than Nintendo - in fact, this partnership has already been officially announced by the companies involved.
 
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Can someone explain DLSS to me and how it impacts Nintendo's next system as someone who knows nothing about that kinda stuff?
You've gotten solid short answer on what DLSS is, but I thought I'd specifically get to "Nintendo's next system" part.

DLSS is a suite of tools, made by Nvidia, for improving the visual quality and performance of games, using AI. The most famous of DLSS's tools, the temporal upscaler, is especially useful. It allows a game to draw 1/2 the pixels on screen, or less, while still getting an image that looks almost as good as if the game drew every pixel natively.

That obviously leads to huge performance improvements. And it's not a technique that only DLSS has - there are other similar technologies, like FSR, which is used on Xbox Series and the PS5. But because DLSS is powered by AI, it looks much, much better that any competitor. It also tends to run faster.

DLSS does this AI magic because it uses a kind of AI accelerator called a tensor core. This is relevant to Nintendo because their next system will include this tensor core. And because of that, despite the fact that Nintendo's next machine is going to be less powerful than the other consoles overall, in this area, Nintendo's machine will be superior.

Since DLSS is generally a set of tools for increasing performance and quality by large factors, you can see how it is especially revolutionary in relatively underpowered hardware.

For a while now, some of the tech nerds in this thread have been trying to game out how powerful Nintendo's next system would be, and how much DLSS would be able to add on top. While details are vague, as of yet, this latest leak matches up with some of those more optimistic analysis - leading credence to lots of other ideas about what the machine might be able to do. Which is part of what's so exciting.
 
Series S has 10GB, with about 8.5~ available to games. I think the current Switch has about 3.5~ of its 4 available to games, so Switch 2 could potentially have about 11-11.5~ available to games which is closer to PS5 and XSX
*7.5GB for games.

Not 8.5

Also if Switch 2 has 12, it would have 10.5-11GB for games most likely, not 11.5GB.


PS5 has 12.5GB and Series X has 13.5GB for games.
 
A few more thoughts on the UE5 Matrix demo:

The more I think about this, the more it makes sense as a demo for Nintendo to use. Obviously they want to show off UE5 itself to show that third party games can run well on the hardware, but there are a few reasons the Matrix demo itself works well. The first one is obvious; it was originally used to show off the PS5 and XBSX/S, so it's a statement of intent from Nintendo that the new Switch hardware should be considered in a similar league to those. Secondly, it really plays to Switch 2's strengths.

The new hardware won't match the PS5 or XBSX (or even the XBSS) in raw horsepower on either the CPU or GPU, but it has a much better upscaling solution (DLSS), much better relative RT performance than the RDNA architecture, and potentially much better RT denoising integrated into their upscaling solution if they're using DLSS-RR. So, if you want a demo that plays to Switch 2 strengths, you want to go heavy on the RT and the upscaling. The UE5 Matrix demo is pretty much the most RT-heavy thing on consoles, and I think it's the only UE5 software on consoles which actually uses hardware RT Lumen (Immortals of Aveum might, but either way it's not a great showcase). Switch 2's better RT hardware means it's, relatively, taking a much smaller hit to run Lumen with full hardware RT, doubly so if it's using DLSS-RR and can get away with lower ray counts. Then, on top of that, DLSS itself will produce much better results than Epic's TSR. Digital Foundry noted that XBSS had "very chunky artefacts" on the demo (at approx 4x scaling), and you can push DLSS pretty hard without it getting "very chunky".

Put Switch 2 next to the PS5 or XBSX in a pure native res benchmark with no RT and it will obviously look a lot worse. Crank up the RT (which PS5 and XBSX are relatively bad at, and Switch 2 is relatively good at) and temporal upscaling (again, benefitting Switch 2), and you can close the gap a lot. I have no doubt the PS5 version of the demo looks better side-by-side than Switch 2, but if they can get results with are anywhere near the ballpark of the far more power hungry home consoles, then that's a win.

A lot of people think that because Switch 2 is a hybrid it's necessarily in Nintendo's interests to hold back on ray tracing (or even disable it in handheld mode, as I've heard suggested a few times), but the reality is the opposite. Nintendo now has the best RT hardware in the console space, and will do for the rest of the generation, and it's in their interest to push that as hard as possible, particularly when selling the hardware to devs. Relative to its performance in purely rasterised graphics, RT is much cheaper on Switch 2, so the harder you're pushing RT, the better the Switch 2 looks compared to the competition.

As a point of reference, let's compare the Nvidia RTX 3070 (about 20Tflops, same Ampere arch as Switch 2), and the AMD RX 6800XT (about 20Tflops, full RDNA2 that's better in some ways than the architectures used in PS5 and XBSS/X). The RTX 3070 launched at $499, and the RX 6800XT launched at $649 about a month later. In benchmarks of Cyberpunk 2077 without RT, the 6800XT beats the 3070 by about 25%, which is about what you'd expect from the price difference.

However, in the game's recently added RT overdrive mode (which is the most RT-intensive game around by some margin), the results are very different. At native 1080p, the RX 6800XT hits an average of 7.9 fps, where the RTX 3070 hits 21.3 fps. Now, obviously neither of these are playable (and Switch 2 definitely won't be running this), but by moving from a purely rasterisation test to an extremely heavy RT test, we're moving from RDNA2 beating Ampere by about 25% at a similar Tflop count, to Ampere being 2.7x faster than RDNA2. Furthermore, these tests are without upscaling. Cyberpunk's RT overdrive mode looks far better with the new DLSS ray reconstruction, so if we were comparing Ampere with DLSS-RR vs RDNA2 with traditional denoising and FSR2, the win for Ampere becomes even bigger.
I'm salivating from all this juicy facts 🤤. Nintendo games art style are so suitable for the ray tracing. No need to push realism games likes PS5. Just put ray tracing into a Super Mario Odessey 2 for Switch 2 launch title and it's will be selling likes crazy 🔥
 
In other news, this is my first time browsing this thread in almost a month, and the best news since I joined over a year ago drops the very same morning. Wild.

I am so HYPED. About to go tell everyone I know about this while they give me a blank stare.

Switch 2 Demo at Gamescom confirmed by many reputable sources?
Demo included enhanced BOTW??
Demo included the UE5 Matrix Demo???
Demo included DLSS 3+????
12GB RAM?????
NEXT YEAR?????????
BRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Yeah, these gifs about sum it up: https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...-staff-posts-before-commenting.55/post-802428
 
Native 1440p
11904602020123021553.png


DLSS - Game is rendering internally at 1706x960, AI upscaled to 1440p
11904602020123021555.png


What does this mean for Switch 2? It can render games at lower internal resolutions, and dedicated hardware known as tensor cores will use an upscaling algorithm to reconstruct it into higher resolutions.

This saves GPU resources. Instead of rendering more pixels to create a 1440p image, it can a create a prettier lower resolution picture, and handing it off to the tensor cores to 'fill in detail' to paint the higher resolution canvas.

So the next 3D Mario could pack a ton of graphical effects and detail into a 1080p frame at 60 FPS, and DLSS will turn it into a 1440p / 4K image before it reaches your TV. Alternatively a demanding third-party port could be rendering at 540p internally, and the developer can enable DLSS to produce a 1080p image.

I am oversimplifying it, and there are caveats (a developer needs to inject DLSS into the pipeline) but it has become a more accessible technology in game engines and a valuable tool in extracting performance without expending so much precious GPU resources on just rendering 'more' pixels.
I should also add this additional detail. The specifics of the upscaling depends on the "Render scale" that the DLSS is using.

The "quality" preset starts at 66.6% of the intended resolution (e.g a 1080 image would start at around 720p). However, lets say you want to render an image in 4K. Well the Switch 2 has two options. With a less demanding game, you can render the image via the "Performance" preset (aka 50% of the intended resolution). However, lets say this is a game that is very painful to run even at 1080p. Well that's not a problem, you can go for the "Ultra Performance" preset (33.3% of the intended resolution) and upscaled from 720p to 4K.

For the record, this is fucking amazing for what the Switch 2 can potentially do in the future. Even insanely demanding games will still look pretty damn good on the system thanks to DLSS.
 
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