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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

who's gonna support it? indies? sure. they don't sell big numbers outside of outliers. B-level developers? same thing

Nintendo? beyond first year, nah. they said themselves they will focus on new hardware

Can I have a link for that? Not implying it doesn’t exist, just that I legitimately missed that proclamation from Nintendo.

If they in fact did say that when they release new hardware they will focus all development for just that and stop supporting all older hardware immediately…(or as you say, “not releasing anything on older hardware after a year’s time)…I’ll take back everything I’ve said.

bigger AA-AAA devs? they barely support switch as is. Drake comes out, switch is dropped like Andy dropped Woody. if you think there's gonna be a half million seller on Switch after the first year of Drake, I got a bridge to sell you

I dunno what this is referring to.

Nothing in my post you responded to mentions anything about this.

What AAA multiplat publishers do about Drake is irrelevant.

There were hardly any 500k-1 million sellers of AAA multiplat games on the Switch as it is.

If you think a smaller userbase Drake Switch will sell more than that for such a game, I have a bridge to sell you

Switch will continue to get the same kind of support the next 6 years like they have the last 6. Drake SoC existing won’t change much about that.
 
I recall an NX report by them back in March 2016 saying production could ramp up in H2 2016 but the entire article was later clarified as investor speculation. Could be similar case here.
Would it come as a surprise to you if it would launch in Early 2024? Or is it just as possible as your Late 2024 forecast?

I remember John Lineman said in your podcast he expects an Early 2024 launch, so it may be not so unlikely, right?
 
Correct. That article cited “institutional investor(s)”. The recent articles cited “the supply chain”.
But how do we know it isn't institutional investors' beliefs about the supply chain? We'd need a native speaker who also happens to be familiar with business article-speak to know for sure, but the translation of that article seems to be lacking any "according to people familiar with the matter" or similar statements.

Though as you've noted, even if it is taken as a claim of non-public info, that doesn't make it trustworthy. It just helps us know where we stand for having this discussion, I guess.
 
Would it come as a surprise to you if it would launch in Early 2024? Or is it just as possible as your Late 2024 forecast?

I remember John Lineman said in your podcast he expects an Early 2024 launch, so it may be not so unlikely, right?
I don't think H1 2024 is an impossibility, in my opinion.
 
I disagree. Nintendo didn't stop supporting the GBA when the DS was out, and the DS likewise was still getting titles despite the 3DS having been launched.

When the next hardware comes out, expect the Switch to still be marketed to a certain extent (as an entry level gaming device), but most of the focus will likely be put on the successor. Support for base Switch will be there, but I'd only expect it to be cut off once the sales for it have trickled down.

The problem with that comparison is that the DS wasn’t designed to run GBA developed games and make them look and run better with the new tech.

(In fact, the DS wanted to explore new architecture and gameplay with the spilt screen gaming concept)

The 3DS wasn’t designed to run DS developed games and make them look and run better with the new tech.

(In fact, the 3DS wanted to explore new architecture and gameplay with the 3D AR environment concept)

The Drake SoC is specifically designed to run the exact game that was designed for the Lite Switch and make it look and run better.

That’s all that we know it does. So it doesn’t compare to your examples.

In this situation, Nintendo will continue to design for these lower profile tx1 Tegra SoC’s and put them on the Drake SoC and let DLSS allow it to run better and push resolution output and graphics more.

But since the lower profile will still exist and be actively developed for, why NOT release it on the models that already exist and are being used by people who don’t give a shit about 4K or about steady framerates?

Unless you are trying to say that this new model will change gameplay the way the DS did with split screens and the way 3DS did with 3D? Well ok, but there is no evidence of that. We are talking about what we know from the new hardware.
 
The problem with that comparison is that the DS wasn’t designed to run GBA developed games and make them look and run better with the new tech.

(In fact, the DS wanted to explore new architecture and gameplay with the spilt screen gaming concept)

The 3DS wasn’t designed to run DS developed games and make them look and run better with the new tech.

(In fact, the 3DS wanted to explore new architecture and gameplay with the 3D AR environment concept)

The Drake SoC is specifically designed to run the exact game that was designed for the Lite Switch and make it look and run better.

That’s all that we know it does. So it doesn’t compare to your examples.

In this situation, Nintendo will continue to design for these lower profile tx1 Tegra SoC’s and put them on the Drake SoC and let DLSS allow it to run better and push resolution output and graphics more.

But since the lower profile will still exist and be actively developed for, why NOT release it on the models that already exist and are being used by people who don’t give a shit about 4K or about steady framerates?

Unless you are trying to say that this new model will change gameplay the way the DS did with split screens and the way 3DS did with 3D? Well ok, but there is no evidence of that. We are talking about what we know from the new hardware.
Doesn't need to have some new way of changing gameplay, it's change is more power. That's like saying ps4 games should've all been ps3 games aswell as the ps4 was only made to make games look better. Because there is no change in gameplay between the two, just more power.
 
that's very unlikely. again, companies barely support switch as is. and those that do, the majority either want off the switch or don't sell enough games to be relevant to the lifespan of the system

What are these companies you are talking about?

3rd party software sells have never been higher than in the last 3 years (this doesn’t even include digital only releases)

Any game that has skipped the Switch up until now is a publisher or dev who has calculated that the demand on the Switch for that game is too low.

Nothing about Drake SoC will change that calculation.

Whatever “company” or current gen multiplat you have in your head is still going to look at the Drake SoC Switch and say “how much appeal does our big multiplat game have on a 7 inch 720p screen? Who is choosing that for this game over the pc/ps/Xbox they most likely already have that runs the game better?”

If there is one thing I know about Nintendo discussions over the last 30 years, it’s the delusion about what motivates 3rd party support.


from a "we'll still accept games" standpoint, sure.

from a "we (nintendo) will support switch" standpoint, they already made their intentions known. they're not going to stick with switch development for very long. when Nintendo bounces, so will the players

Right, I’m still not aware of the Nintendo announcement you are referring to.
 
I mean, this depends heavily on whether or not games are released on the Switch 1 after the Switch 2 releases.

The PS5 had like 3 exclusives in its first two years and every big multiplatform game was on the PS4.

This is much more in the air for the Switch transition.

Well this is the crux of it, is it not? Lol

I don’t think it’s up in the air at all.

People who don’t like what I’m saying seem to think it’s up in the air for various reasons that I don’t see the rational for.
 
Do we really think the next Mario Sports, WarioWare, Kirby, 2D Zelda and most cash-grabs won't release on the current Switch?

NX2 will have exclusives, increasingly so, to really push the hardware.
But IMO, ~70% Nintendo's software doesn't really need NG and would sell quite well to a still active 140M+ user base.
It will take NX2 many years to be able to push as much software units.
There's too much money to be made while still providing an incentive to upgrade.

I'd be baffled if they don't (decreasingly) support the Switch for a least 2 years, but I'm expecting a bit more than that.
They could even keep manufacturing and selling the Switch at a lower price point, alongside NX2, to keep milking their current catalog.

Nintendo is a software factory first and foremost.
 
Are we expecting a new pro controller for Switch 2, or will they keep the current one?

I would expect iterations on every accesory since its basically free money imo.


I suppose that if they announce it before September, its to prevent it from leaking because they are going to start the mass production. I see it releasing more in Q1 than Q2 of next year, otherwise there would be too many months between announcement-release.
 
I just want the Activity Log back maaaaaaan. I don't wanna wait after a week of starting a game to know how much time I've put into playing it. I'm not a fan of play time in your Switch profile being only in increments of 5 hours. I don't want being informed about cool play time statistics to only be a once a year thing.

I want to know again how much time I played everyday
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It was just cool how Nintendo presented your play time like this
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and how you could know stuff like, how many times you opened an app/game
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Nintendo is the king at never following up on godtier ideas and features from generation to generation.

It hurts so much sometimes. It's like the worst best thing about them.
 
I would expect iterations on every accesory since its basically free money imo.


I suppose that if they announce it before September, its to prevent it from leaking because they are going to start the mass production. I see it releasing more in Q1 than Q2 of next year, otherwise there would be too many months between announcement-release.
We have the precedent of Sony and MS talking about their next gen hardware at the end of 2019 and releasing in holiday 2020 (and Nintendo confirming NX's March 2017 release in April 2016)
 
We have the precedent of Sony and MS talking about their next gen hardware at the end of 2019 and releasing in holiday 2020 (and Nintendo confirming NX's March 2017 release in April 2016)
Unlike the Switch, all of those had lost a lot of sales momentum.
 
Define permanent :p

Nintendo won’t stop supporting all the Switch consoles with software releases until whatever the next hardware after Drake comes out (imo)




Because software sales (and engagement) is more important than sales of new hardware.



Smooth transition for Nintendo means not disrupting the userbase of the current system as well as not disrupting the interest in the new system. You can actually appease both by positioning this new model the right way.



I’m pretty sure Nintendo would rather give out the message that the current Switch gamers that they have cultivated shouldn’t worry about being able to play most Nintendo Switch games on the devices they currently own.

I don’t see how the message of “buy this $400 device or miss out!” does them any favors



There is no negative in placing Drake as part of the Switch family of Systems. So why not do it?
Apologies for this giant message, but I think this is the only way to explain why this argument is wrong (in my opinion):

I agree that software sales are the goal, more than hardware sales, but I wouldn't say they're more important than hardware sales, because you can't sell software without selling the hardware first. So we half agree on that.

However I disagree with the rest of your case, because your case is effectively an argument for 'they should never create a platform outside of the Switch family until Switch games stop selling well'. The problem with that is that when that happens, it's too late. They don't want to scramble through a year or two of poor software sales while they try to build a new audience on a new platform, they want to get ahead (while still supporting the old Switch, we all agree they can still do that).

Nintendo has explained in the past to investors, that they're constantly in competition with all entertainment. They are conscious that new entertainment products are constantly being developed that could entice people away from Nintendo. We never know where the next big hit product will come from that takes people's time and attention away. They said themselves, that if they don't keep innovating, they stagnate and will fall behind.
That's why they need to produce the best software and hardware products they can in order to stay competitive, even against future competition, so they're not suddenly left scrambling. What if Meta Quest had blown up and massively succeeded? What if Steam Deck or a similar device had massively succeeded? What if something outside gaming came and stole the show like smart phones and mobile devices suddenly did and ended up hurting 3DS sales. All of these things, ultimately take up people's time, and take it away from Nintendo. That problem is exacerbated if Nintendo's current offerings are old and lost their freshness, whereas if Nintendo's current offerings are fresh and new (i.e. not 7+ years old), they're more likely to withstand and hold more of people's attention, even if competition comes to fight them. e.g. if there was no Switch, only 3DS, I would have probably bought a Meta Quest by now, but I never did. Why? Because even though I was enjoying the 3DS, I was SICK TO DEATH of those graphics in the last few years of it. Imagine the 3DS had continued to sell and no new Nintendo console released since then, as soon as heavy competition came in, I would have bought a steam deck or meta quest because I would want something new and fresh and exciting - but since the Switch had recently come out when those competitors did, I was content. I'm now teetering on the edge of buying a Playstation 5 or Xbox Series even though I haven't bought a non-nintendo console since the PS3 and 360. If Nintendo doesn't come out with a true next gen Switch 2 next year, I'm buying on of those platforms for sure. If Nintendo comes out with a Switch Pro next year, I'm probably still moving over to those platforms, because Switch Pro games will not be allowed to do anything the Switch OG couldn't do, and therefore there's nothing exciting about a Switch Pro or its games (except slightly better graphics, but not a real leap).

In summary, even to a hardcore Nintendo fan like myself, things eventually get boring, and they do so quite suddenly, and there's a thousand companies competing to entertain me. Nintendo doesn't want to wait until we're all bored of their brand to start trying to build a new install base on a new exciting piece of hardware, because they'll be suffering with low sales for a couple of years while they try to do that. They need to start looking ahead now, and if they position the next Switch as just another one in the family they will destroy sales of the new system because they won't allow their new games to do anything new that Switch 1 couldn't do, and therefore people will have little incentive to buy the new Switch because slightly better performance is not a strong incentive for most people.
Even if later they wanted to drop the OG Switch to take full advantage of the new system, it will be so hard to market the fact that that system they said for years was just a 'Pro' is now next gen. Us hardcore will know it, but the mainstream public won't because it's not an easy message to get across after years of saying the opposite.

Finally, if you doubt what I say, I think judging by Nintendo and Ubisoft's words over the last few years, it's pretty clear the new console won't just be another one in the same family. If it was, none of Nintendo's quotes about having a transition, or moving over the account system, or Ubisoft's quote about waiting for the next system make any sense. Do any of those quotes make any sense if they were about an OLED? No, so why would they make sense about a pro?
Why would Nintendo even refer to a transition, or even explain that the Nintendo account will transfer over, if the next system was just a new Switch family model? It makes no sense. That's the final nail in the coffin for me, none of those quotes make sense if the next system is just another in the same family.
 
Related to the hidden fwd post, no panic (I guess)
I know some background info but following what other people with inside info do, I'll keep quiet until solid info comes to light for me
Can you give an English translation of your tweet yourself? The Twitter translation sounds weird and I don't want to get it wrong.

To be more precise it sounds like you are concerned so paired with the tweet above it sounds like hardware could be weaker than expected but I don't want to misinterpret things.
 
couple of counter points, turing is cheaper and gives you DLSS, overclocking a switch already gets TOTK to 60fps and FSR 2.0 is easily enabled provided more ram, allowing it to be deployed even on maxwell giving you "4K". it still makes zero sense to go with Ampere at that level of power for a simple pro model

Turing…can you point me to the Turning mobile SoC doing effective DLSS?

Or are you talking about the rtx 2070 that needs 200w total power draw and gpu clocks at 1.6 ghz and memory clocks at 1.7 ghz and has 320 tensor cores to get it to effectively DLSS 1080p render to 4K?

Pretty sure what they settled on with Drake Ampere 12SM is what is needed to effectively utilize DLSS on a mobile device with low clocks and power draws.

You can correct me if I’m wrong though.

As far as releasing an upgrade chip to simply boost raw performance…I don’t believe Nintendo is looking for that. I think the whole point for them is to move to AI upscaling development.

And you saying “it makes zero sense to go with Ampere at that level of power for a simple pro model”, only makes me think you are hung up on the term “pro model” rather than focusing on how Nintendo is going to use tech and position it.

DLSS 2.x doesn't allow for such dramatic shifts in performance the hardware still needs to have a lot more grunt that increases costs far more than a beefed up X1, Drake before DLSS is 6x the performance of the X1 in raw power alone far more if you factor in CPU, features, bandwidth, etc. companies don't make jumps that massive for a relatively minor refresh

I’m confused by this part because you say DLSS can only work if the hardware has a lot of grunt to it…and I’m saying the Drake SoC has a lot of grunt in it to make DLSS work the way they want it to…what’s the disconnect here?

Drake having the same basic power as the ps4 when in portable mode before DLSS…doesn’t mean much to me. So? What does that have to do with anything in how Nintendo designs their future games?

You talking about all this 6x power even without DLSS…when we all agree that just amounts to ps4 type performance on the go…a console from
2013…isn’t making the case you think it is. Drake SoC isn’t some super powerful native thing on its own. It’s strength will be what it can do in making lower rendered games look/run better.

Unless I’m reading this wrong.

as far as I remember NX's revolutionary approach was to be a "unified platform" as in a hybrid with adequate controls for the majority of their ideas and an account system they do not have to ditch every gen that they could scale up, nothing about abandoning the traditional console generation

Family of devices, Iwata specifically pointing to Apple and Android on how they deal with hardware iterations and keeping a common OS throughout and how they want to emulate that, NX being a unified platform going forward, movement to create an account system and service that goes beyond one device and encompasses all future devices beyond 205x or whatever…a lot of this



like it or not drake is very clearly being designed to enable experiences straight up not possible on Erista or Mariko. its just a fact

I mean, I don’t give shit. I’ll take any kind of upgrade.

I’m just consistently surprised why people get upset at me suggesting Nintendo will still release their big games on the current hardware for another 5 years.

Why does this thought scare/anger people so?

What magical Nintendo game do they expect Drake to let them play?

I’m confident Nintendo can make a great open world 3D Mario or 3D Donkey Kong game in 2027 and have it run on the OLED Switch just as well as ToTK. And then have the Drake version being the 4K/60fps better graphics version.

What’s not to like about this? Win win for everyone?
 
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