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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

So if it is no longer T239, is that good news? Should it be something better?
In the unlikely event that rumor is true we really have no idea. T239 was a surprisingly huge chip (in terms of GPU size) for Nintendo so if they ditched it there's always the chance they decided to go smaller and weaker for better thermals.

Not sure why it's even worth entertaining that rumor at the moment though.
 
(It is going to be pretty outdated by late 2024 if it can't use DLSS >2.2 and if NVIDIA and Nintendo were stupid and actually did finish the chip in early 2022 and refuse to edit it)
DLSS super resolution is compatible with all RTX cards so that's a needless fear

DLSS frame gen, as we're seeing, isn't even viable at these power levels, so it's pretty damn irrelevant
 
GOD I LOVE ACTIVITY LOG HOLY SHIT, i hate nintendo's wii u trauma...
the wii u has my favourite console OS ever, switch-style OS but with more features like what the wii u had (activity log, miiverse, video chat, more streaming apps) would be fire
 
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In the unlikely event that rumor is true we really have no idea. T239 was a surprisingly huge chip (in terms of GPU size) for Nintendo so if they ditched it there's always the chance they decided to go smaller and weaker for better thermals.

Not sure why it's even worth entertaining that rumor at the moment though.
The only reason for gong wide and slow is better thermals (providing you don't go to slow). And Nvidia would have a very good idea about how a given size at a given node would perform, before the project was greenlit.
 
DLSS super resolution is compatible with all RTX cards so that's a needless fear

DLSS frame gen, as we're seeing, isn't even viable at these power levels, so it's pretty damn irrelevant

Nah, I'm pretty sure with a bespoke design that sacrificed a lot of CUDA cores for tensor cores (maybe 250), frame gen would work and I'm very confident NVIDIA will make frame gen at low framerates pleasant gameplay wise within a short timeframe.
 
Nah, I'm pretty sure with a bespoke design that sacrificed a lot of CUDA cores for tensor cores (maybe 250), frame gen would work and I'm very confident NVIDIA will make frame gen at low framerates pleasant gameplay wise within a short timeframe.
by sacrificing cuda cores, you make games more gpu limited, which reduces the effectiveness of frame gen. that's why a lot of the marketing was centered around cpu bottlenecks
 
by sacrificing cuda cores, you make games more gpu limited, which reduces the effectiveness of frame gen. that's why a lot of the marketing was centered around cpu bottlenecks

Sacrificing 1/6 of the GPU to double the framerate afterward would be a clear win if DLSS frame gen worked well from doubling 20 to 40 FPS.

CPU bottlenecks were also focused on in promotion because the 4090 and 4080 were the main 4000 series models sold at first and obviously the 4090 eats every game for breakfast so frame generation makes no sense as a feature for that model at this specific point in time unless there are CPU bottlenecks.
 
Is that a good gpu?
it's looking decent. also the best ray tracing mobile gpu right now. I don't think any phone uses the largest configuration

Sacrificing 1/6 of the GPU to double the framerate afterward would be a clear win if DLSS frame gen worked well from doubling 20 to 40 FPS.

CPU bottlenecks were also focused on in promotion because the 4090 and 4080 were the main 4000 series models sold at first and obviously the 4090 eats every game for breakfast so frame generation makes no sense as a feature for that model at this specific point in time unless there are CPU bottlenecks.
I have my doubts on that. lovelace reviews show the frame gen multiplier getting lower and lower as SMs decrease. and on top of that, Drake has a drastic decrease in power going into it. I don't see frame gen being beneficial, more likely to see regression if anything
 
T239 is not and was not cancelled. Peddling such as fact or a possibility is not deserving of anyone's time, I don't think.
 
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it's looking decent. also the best ray tracing mobile gpu right now. I don't think any phone uses the largest configuration


I have my doubts on that. lovelace reviews show the frame gen multiplier getting lower and lower as SMs decrease. and on top of that, Drake has a drastic decrease in power going into it. I don't see frame gen being beneficial, more likely to see regression if anything
Because less SM equals less Tensor Cores, since if we are talking about a custom design we could have twice as many Tensor Cores per SM for example, and a reduction of 12 > 8SMs would actually increase the amount of Tensor Cores by 33%
 
Turing…can you point me to the Turning mobile SoC doing effective DLSS?
DLSS can function on anything that has the proper hardware (tensor cores) so volta and up, a custom Turing SOC wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to make, I can't point to a Turing SOC with it because they didn't make Turing SOCs, period.

So you got me there, however. they do have a Volta SOC with tensor cores such the jetson xavier which has 48 tensor cores and is more in line with what a pro model wouldve offered (even if its still kinda binary incompatiable iirc)


Or are you talking about the rtx 2070 that needs 200w total power draw and gpu clocks at 1.6 ghz and memory clocks at 1.7 ghz and has 320 tensor cores to get it to effectively DLSS 1080p render to 4K?

I mean....the RTX 2050 (laptop chip) has DLSS that works fine and that only has 64 tensor cores, I think you overestimate what DLSS needs to function, Nintendo is targetting lower fidelity experiences either way it doesn't need to be perfect



I’m confused by this part because you say DLSS can only work if the hardware has a lot of grunt to it…and I’m saying the Drake SoC has a lot of grunt in it to make DLSS work the way they want it to…what’s the disconnect here?

I am trying to say that DLSS cant really gets 720p30 to 4K or 4K60, the point of DLSS is that if a game that runs at say. 1080p60 in the first place then DLSS might get it to 4K30-4K60, but if the game wasn't hitting that frame rate at the target res DLSS isn't gonna magically double the FPS, DLSS isn't the point of the chip, it's a bonus to give it longevity when native rendering isn't cutting it anymore.

You talking about all this 6x power even without DLSS…when we all agree that just amounts to ps4 type performance on the go…a console from
2013…isn’t making the case you think it is. Drake SoC isn’t some super powerful native thing on its own. It’s strength will be what it can do in making lower rendered games look/run better.
Power is complex, it's way more than just a number, let me try and explain, lets Drake turns out to be a horrible disappointment and only gets us PS4 teraflop numbers. 1.84TFlops. this would imply Drake could only do PS4-level stuff and that's an absolute yeah? wrong. By virtue of being newer Drake has features that allow it to do things in fewer steps than the PS4 ever could, it has a much faster CPU that allows physics and logic that the ps4 isn't capable of either, etc etc, I am sure many people smarter than me here can explain this far better in case my explanation wasn't satisfactory


Family of devices, Iwata specifically pointing to Apple and Android on how they deal with hardware iterations and keeping a common OS throughout and how they want to emulate that, NX being a unified platform going forward, movement to create an account system and service that goes beyond one device and encompasses all future devices beyond 205x or whatever…a lot of this

Idk how to make you see my PoV tbh, so I will just let this one be,
its hard to word what I wanna say

Why does this thought scare/anger people so?

What magical Nintendo game do they expect Drake to let them play?
It's not really angering anyone, the only issue with it is that such a massive power leap would be completely wasted on basic graphical upgrades that provide very little to the core experience of playing games and undersell its own potential. the new hardware would allow for stuff like VR, more advanced physics, new gameplay mechanics, worlds of much larger scope, and much higher fidelity visuals. imagine wii -> wii u jumps in game complexity. That's the sort of thing this hardware allows for. it would be the first real jump for Nintendo since the Wii U. It would just be a crying shame if they didn't use it to its full capability.


What’s not to like about this? Win win for everyone?
I think it would be a massive L for everyone, especially for game design, devs are stuck catering to what is inching closer to being archaic hardware, wasting precious hours trying to optimize things that shouldn't need to be optimized and compromising their game design in the process than using the full tools they have and customers would be forced to use the same hardware they are clearly begging to have replaced for a while longer just to play nintendo's games. it just makes no sense





i hope that explains my point
 
The calculus has changed.
2023 = 10%
2024 H1 = 70%
2024 H2 = 20%

Where are the team 2023 peeps at? Aint seen any posts in a bit. Starting to feel hopeless? I guess in a few weeks we'll know for sure!
I shall not yield!!!!!
 
Because less SM equals less Tensor Cores, since if we are talking about a custom design we could have twice as many Tensor Cores per SM for example, and a reduction of 12 > 8SMs would actually increase the amount of Tensor Cores by 33%
and you'd still be power limited
 
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The thread giveth, the thread taketh away. But I'm not fully convinced of
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T239 is not and was not cancelled. Peddling such as fact or a possibility is not deserving of anyone's time, I don't think.
I don't think it is either, but let's be honest we have low standards for what is worth our time. If any easy to fake 4chan leak is, then a leak from an apparently reputable Nvidia leaker definitely is.
 
The calculus has changed.
2023 = 10%
2024 H1 = 70%
2024 H2 = 20%

Where are the team 2023 peeps at? Aint seen any posts in a bit. Starting to feel hopeless? I guess in a few weeks we'll know for sure!
I'm more of a stubborn believer, so 2023 until proven otherwise for me.

A lack of leaks isn't proof either
 
I have deleted a lengthy, purely and perhaps irresponsible line of speculation. I will just provide the TL;DR instead.

Even if the ultimate chip we get doesn't match the expected design here, it seems extremely unlikely that it's overall design would change hugely from a consumer's perspective. And if you don't get the power you expect from that design, it's because Nintendo's actual goals were more modest than you expected.

And if both happen - if we get a different design and different performance levels - then it's almost definitely not because of a cancelled project but because Nintendo's goals were always more modest than you wanted, and Nintendo found a more cost effective/battery effective strategy to get there.

From a purely schedule perspective, I am extremely dubious about that occurring.
 
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I'm sorry to sneak in like that but this thread surely has been moving way faster than I could possibly watch closely, so may anyone of you lovely people summarize what made this bump? Any new rumors or something, (edit: got it wrong) + dev kits in Spain the last information we got? Anything pointing towards an earlier release (like early 2024) or any games mentioned? Thanks in advance 🥰❤️‍🩹
 
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