personally I see this as a win if this means the levels are actually more designed for solo play and multiplayer is more seen as a bonus this time around. Hence why you wouldn't have collision if the levels are a bit "more cramped" compared to the New Super Mario games.
SM3DWorld is by far the most whimsical entry in the series, with SM3DLand up there, too. It had multiplayer for the first time in the 3D series, new stage settings (Circus, Rainbows, Trains, Champion Road, Mario Kart-inspired stage), you didn't have to save Peach, environmental interaction through the GamePad, Clear Pipe traversal, World Map interaction, and a very small element featuring Captain Toad, where a whole spin-off game was created on the back of it. I remember the reactions at the Old Old Place - It was initially derided as a "3DS up-port", but that's been proven wrong over the years because it has, to my mind, graphics ahead of its time, and some of the best in the last decade. Its influence and aesthetic inspiration are deeply apparent in games such as New Super Lucky's Tale, Astrobot and Sackboy, with the latter two being a couple of Cat Suits short of straight-up imitation. There was nothing "safe" about it. Hayashida described it as a "grand culmination of ideas from past entries".
Thank you. 3D World is one of my favourite games of all time tbh, I adore it. And from a visuals pov, whereas Odyssey can look rough in places, the look of 3D World is so clean and nice to look at.
But what if Yoshi can ride Mario this time around
As long as Yoshi can sacrifice Mario to make a jump all is good in the world.
Bring Hawwwww~
People heard acapella and thought this was something New Super Mario Bros brought first to the series in general (even though it doesn't even count as acapella with the "BAHS")
Precisely. New was a good basis imo, the problem was they stayed too conservative designing their levels. There were some unique levels but were very rare. Wonder looks a very bold step and the biggest shake up in the 2D Mario formula since SMW.
I've posted my thoughts elsewhere but I should probably make them a little more readable by putting them on here. This is:
Mondo's Wonderful World Map and Level Order Ramblings!
TL;DR? I don't think the standard world progression applies to Wonder, and levels are simply placed on the map relative to their level theme. Alternatively, what we assume is "World 1" is just the first half of the full first World. Leaning toward the first option.
Let's start with our the short scene showing our "first world":
The crucial initial observations from this alone:
What you see is what you get; this "first world" only has three stages on the map. All three stages are easily noticable within the footage of the trailer itself too. In order below: the first stage we spend a lot of the trailer focused on, introducing the Elephant power-up and Wonder Flowers in a multi-faceted tutorial. We also see the Mushroom Kingdom in the background at the very start of the stage, an easy way to denote the start of the adventure. The second stage goes beyond saying, we see it on the world map. The third level, featuring the new hippo creatures, is fairly easy to place too: not just due to the shared level theme with 1-1 (which is also the case with 1-3's placement on the world map) but because the hills in the background have physically gotten closer, again much like how the level is placed on the world map.
That's all pretty weird though; a world made up of just three levels, with no fortress or castle at that, is incredibly abnormal. This next screenshot will be crucial to making sense of things though:
We see that the flower pads on the world map are used to traverse to the next section of the map. Typically I would call this going to the next world, but i'll explain why i'm not so sure. There's some other elements worth addressing too:
This is the part i'm going to put in spoiler tags, to not take up too much of this page with an endless barrage of images. If you're satisfied with the world map sleuthing you can stop here; this part will be more about connecting together level themes out of the footage shown, starting with levels taking place in our favourite pipe mountain canyon:
- There's a stretch of map here that features zero dotted lines, with multiple stages (or other locations of note; a sign-post featuring a Wonder Seed and another at the top of the screen) with no line connecting them. How could they be accessed, unless there is a free roaming element to the map in addition to more linear segments?
- As such, they grey square in the canyon would be the beginning of one such area, where there are multiple (optional?) levels to pick from at a time. This would recontextualise the earlier grass area as a tutorial before entering the real meat of the game; whether that be the rest of "World 1" or a more open map than usual without the typical world seperatation, simply level theme and difficulty. This is where the TL;DR from earlier comes from if you're keeping track. The progression in this game is absolutely not like a typical 2D Mario.
- Other things of note while we're here, before we get into the level theme speculation:
- There are three visible levels up in the clouds so far, plus our two afformentioned smaller circles. Two of these stages are seemingly not connected to any path; but the last in top left is connected to a path that is not yet unlocked, as the level has not yet been completed. The path in the bottom left on the other hand appears already unlocked with no level attached.
- There is one more icon briefly seen to the far right at the very start of this shot. I do not beleive this is a regular level though; the circle appears to be smaller like other two bonus circles, and it does not appear to be flashing in unison with the rest of the uncleared levels (as is the case with all of the clearly visible levels both in this shot and the earlier grass area shot). No clue what in particular it would be.
- The area below the clouds appears to be snow-themed. That's in line with a few levels seen elsewhere in the trailer, which we'll get to.
These three levels all prominently feature the pipe mountains in the background, and also feature the same dark brown grass floor tiles (can't be seen in the screenshot I picked for the first level, but it's there). There's nothing stopping the stampede Wonder Event from being part of the latter two levels from what we know so far, but i'm assuming they are seperate for now due to the uniqueness of tree platforms (and the other two scenes already appear to have their own level gimmicks). There's one more screen that features the pipe mountains, and it's tied to two other screens in the trailer:
The first forest scene features a few pipes few and far between; appears to be further away from the mountain now, no longer within that area of the map. We've actually seen this forest on the map; going back to the shot of the cast riding flowers:
Beyond the canyons in the very background, you can see plenty of trees. To the right of that there is what looks to be a giant question block, which lines up with another set of levels spotted in the trailer:
Both of the clear desert areas appear to have a giant block motif in the background; a question mark block in the first, and some empty blocks in the second. The clear presence of sand and pyramids is another connecting factor for these two scenes. One unrelated note I have here that applies to some earlier screens too: the bottom of the screen is darkened when the pit below is bottomless, as seen in the Toad screenshoot. Pretty simple visual indicator to tell you when going downward is not a good idea.
There's so many levels, and there's not as much to sepculate about with map placement from here on, so i'm going to do a bit of a lightning round with the final batch, with short comments underneath the barrage of images. Are you ready? I wasn't, since I ran into the image limit while making this and had to combine all of these into a single picture. Whoops!
and our grand finale:
- Two beach levels with the same notable background structure. We haven't seen where this goes on the map yet, but the two stages are clearly connected to one another.
- Two levels clearly taking place high above the clouds; possibly in the cloud segment of the world map shown earlier. The first screen has white mounds peeking out of the clouds; that would line up with the snow world below, but also look closer to the pyramids from the desert. Not 100% sure.
- These two levels both feature the same type of clouds and background structures, just far closer to the player in the second example. Not sure what the level theme is supposed to be there, but clearly not anything natural.
- Two scenes with snow present. The second also has gears present in the background. Maybe they are connected to the prior level theme; a mix of the traditional snow level theme with a factory / mechanical theme? Kirby already did that, but it would still be fun if accurate.
- We're into the leftovers now:
- The first underground area we see. The small peek at the surface at the start of the cliff appears to have icicles, so I want to place this as part of the snow area, but i'm just not certain.
- Another screen that appears to be underground; with poison, a lot of pipes and some overgrown plantlife. No easy clue to go off.
- This area with giant mushrooms fits in thematically with the look the canyon and desert but doesn't have any notable background features from either. Not sure where to place it for that reason.
- An interior scene; has a door and that foreground pipe mechanic. Doesn't tell us anything about where it could go on the map; certainly doesn't fit any area we can visibly see in the trailer.
This scene outside of Bowser's flying castle. Given the presence of a Wonder Effect I can't use the pallette to place where example this takes places, but to me it seems like it takes place in the clouds moreso than any other setting we've seen. The boss fight against Bowser Jr. naturally takes place inside this castle; but I don't think it needs to be in this particular location. We don't know enough about the game to make a definitive call on that.
Whew; that took awhile. There's a lot to see in the trailer; way more than I realised in the first viewing at least. Hope this was at least entertaining to read!
I think the difference here is that we're not trying to assume the structure. We're using evidence from the trailer to speculate on progression between levels (which will almost certainly remain linear). How that will play out remains to be seen, of course, but I do think we're not coming into this with nothing.
This is excellent. I sure hope multiple exits are back. That's absolutely my favorite element of 2D Mario.I've posted my thoughts elsewhere but I should probably make them a little more readable by putting them on here. This is:
Mondo's Wonderful World Map and Level Order Ramblings!
TL;DR? I don't think the standard world progression applies to Wonder, and levels are simply placed on the map relative to their level theme. Alternatively, what we assume is "World 1" is just the first half of the full first World. Leaning toward the first option.
Let's start with our the short scene showing our "first world":
The crucial initial observations from this alone:
What you see is what you get; this "first world" only has three stages on the map. All three stages are easily noticable within the footage of the trailer itself too. In order below: the first stage we spend a lot of the trailer focused on, introducing the Elephant power-up and Wonder Flowers in a multi-faceted tutorial. We also see the Mushroom Kingdom in the background at the very start of the stage, an easy way to denote the start of the adventure. The second stage goes beyond saying, we see it on the world map. The third level, featuring the new hippo creatures, is fairly easy to place too: not just due to the shared level theme with 1-1 (which is also the case with 1-3's placement on the world map) but because the hills in the background have physically gotten closer, again much like how the level is placed on the world map.
That's all pretty weird though; a world made up of just three levels, with no fortress or castle at that, is incredibly abnormal. This next screenshot will be crucial to making sense of things though:
We see that the flower pads on the world map are used to traverse to the next section of the map. Typically I would call this going to the next world, but i'll explain why i'm not so sure. There's some other elements worth addressing too:
This is the part i'm going to put in spoiler tags, to not take up too much of this page with an endless barrage of images. If you're satisfied with the world map sleuthing you can stop here; this part will be more about connecting together level themes out of the footage shown, starting with levels taking place in our favourite pipe mountain canyon:
- There's a stretch of map here that features zero dotted lines, with multiple stages (or other locations of note; a sign-post featuring a Wonder Seed and another at the top of the screen) with no line connecting them. How could they be accessed, unless there is a free roaming element to the map in addition to more linear segments?
- As such, they grey square in the canyon would be the beginning of one such area, where there are multiple (optional?) levels to pick from at a time. This would recontextualise the earlier grass area as a tutorial before entering the real meat of the game; whether that be the rest of "World 1" or a more open map than usual without the typical world seperatation, simply level theme and difficulty. This is where the TL;DR from earlier comes from if you're keeping track. The progression in this game is absolutely not like a typical 2D Mario.
- Other things of note while we're here, before we get into the level theme speculation:
- There are three visible levels up in the clouds so far, plus our two afformentioned smaller circles. Two of these stages are seemingly not connected to any path; but the last in top left is connected to a path that is not yet unlocked, as the level has not yet been completed. The path in the bottom left on the other hand appears already unlocked with no level attached.
- There is one more icon briefly seen to the far right at the very start of this shot. I do not beleive this is a regular level though; the circle appears to be smaller like other two bonus circles, and it does not appear to be flashing in unison with the rest of the uncleared levels (as is the case with all of the clearly visible levels both in this shot and the earlier grass area shot). No clue what in particular it would be.
- The area below the clouds appears to be snow-themed. That's in line with a few levels seen elsewhere in the trailer, which we'll get to.
These three levels all prominently feature the pipe mountains in the background, and also feature the same dark brown grass floor tiles (can't be seen in the screenshot I picked for the first level, but it's there). There's nothing stopping the stampede Wonder Event from being part of the latter two levels from what we know so far, but i'm assuming they are seperate for now due to the uniqueness of tree platforms (and the other two scenes already appear to have their own level gimmicks). There's one more screen that features the pipe mountains, and it's tied to two other screens in the trailer:
The first forest scene features a few pipes few and far between; appears to be further away from the mountain now, no longer within that area of the map. We've actually seen this forest on the map; going back to the shot of the cast riding flowers:
Beyond the canyons in the very background, you can see plenty of trees. To the right of that there is what looks to be a giant question block, which lines up with another set of levels spotted in the trailer:
Both of the clear desert areas appear to have a giant block motif in the background; a question mark block in the first, and some empty blocks in the second. The clear presence of sand and pyramids is another connecting factor for these two scenes. One unrelated note I have here that applies to some earlier screens too: the bottom of the screen is darkened when the pit below is bottomless, as seen in the Toad screenshoot. Pretty simple visual indicator to tell you when going downward is not a good idea.
There's so many levels, and there's not as much to sepculate about with map placement from here on, so i'm going to do a bit of a lightning round with the final batch, with short comments underneath the barrage of images. Are you ready? I wasn't, since I ran into the image limit while making this and had to combine all of these into a single picture. Whoops!
and our grand finale:
- Two beach levels with the same notable background structure. We haven't seen where this goes on the map yet, but the two stages are clearly connected to one another.
- Two levels clearly taking place high above the clouds; possibly in the cloud segment of the world map shown earlier. The first screen has white mounds peeking out of the clouds; that would line up with the snow world below, but also look closer to the pyramids from the desert. Not 100% sure.
- These two levels both feature the same type of clouds and background structures, just far closer to the player in the second example. Not sure what the level theme is supposed to be there, but clearly not anything natural.
- Two scenes with snow present. The second also has gears present in the background. Maybe they are connected to the prior level theme; a mix of the traditional snow level theme with a factory / mechanical theme? Kirby already did that, but it would still be fun if accurate.
- We're into the leftovers now:
- The first underground area we see. The small peek at the surface at the start of the cliff appears to have icicles, so I want to place this as part of the snow area, but i'm just not certain.
- Another screen that appears to be underground; with poison, a lot of pipes and some overgrown plantlife. No easy clue to go off.
- This area with giant mushrooms fits in thematically with the look the canyon and desert but doesn't have any notable background features from either. Not sure where to place it for that reason.
- An interior scene; has a door and that foreground pipe mechanic. Doesn't tell us anything about where it could go on the map; certainly doesn't fit any area we can visibly see in the trailer.
This scene outside of Bowser's flying castle. Given the presence of a Wonder Effect I can't use the pallette to place where example this takes places, but to me it seems like it takes place in the clouds moreso than any other setting we've seen. The boss fight against Bowser Jr. naturally takes place inside this castle; but I don't think it needs to be in this particular location. We don't know enough about the game to make a definitive call on that.
Whew; that took awhile. There's a lot to see in the trailer; way more than I realised in the first viewing at least. Hope this was at least entertaining to read!
3D Worlds is amazing
I feel like this isn't a game that needs a ton of coverage, to be honest. I expect another trailer in the September Direct, maybe an extended segment in the Direct talking about how new mechanics or power-ups work, a couple of Twitter videos (or whatever social media will be used cuz lol), cut some commercials and print ads, bing bang boom you have a game.
I think it could depend on if they have something for Gamescom. I don't know if they'll do a deep dive because I'm sure they'll want to save a big trailer for the pre-TGS Direct in September. After that, it'll be a month of non-stop Wonder marketing I feel. The typical 1 month ramp up we've seen recently.
People keep saying they'll wait till September when they'll have a general Direct, but I don't think so. This isn't a sports or party title, it's a new mainline game.
It's that one thing where people who played a game 100000 years ago kind of remember only the hard parts in their heads and forget that they're a small portion of the overall game.
Maybe the Pipe World but that's about it.
"The true epic hardcore GAMERS will love this for sure" - Shigeru Koizumi
I don't think it's a hard game in the grand scope of video games, but in my experience it's certainly more difficult than any 2D Mario game since its release. Granted I haven't actually played the original NSMB since it came out, but SMB3 is absolutely more difficult than SMW and the other NSMB games. I just replayed the game a few weeks ago and was actually a bit surprised at how much I died in it. Certainly a lot more than SMW and NSMBU, which I've also played recently. Now those games are quite easy and I don't think SMB3 is like a super difficult game or anything, but by 2D Mario standards? It's definitely not on the easy side imo.
