Post: Wow. This ended up being super long. Hopefully, something in this rambling helps out a little bit. I really hope some of your questions got answered here... Didn't go into this expecting to write a novel lmao
- When did Ontos become a heartless machine and start plotting the events that we see in FR? It was mentioned that Ontos lost its consciousness with Logos and Pneuma gone, so did it all happen shortly after XC1/XC2 ended (and in that case why did it help for years with the whole Origin stuff)? I guess it must have happened way later, probably after the Endless Now started. But I don't understand why nor the timeline. Was leaving with the "new people" that resulted from the merge (the inhabitants of the City) part of his plan all along, or did it adopt this idea as a new directive only after the people from the old worlds gave birth to Z and the Endless Now started?
Based on the lakeside discussion with A, it's a tie to Fruedian psych that Takahashi loves so much, Id, Ego, Superego. Without the Id(Logos), Superego(Pnuema)(they "died" at the end of X2), the Ego(Ontos) was just a "heartless machine" and blames the humans from Alrest and Bionis for glitching Origin out and creating Z. That's why he called the city people "blameless" and is just going to take them to a new world. Ontos seems to only value "progress" to a genocidal fault without the moral computing from Logos and Pnuema. Origin is running on Ontos, so I'm sure "he" was fine with Origin's function, but when humanity prevented the future from happening with Origin "glitching" and creating Z, he decided to erase everything and start over.
It probably took him some time to enact this plan, to get enough generations of city life and population size. That's why they say N gave Alpha's plan a "setback" because N tried his own genocide of the city population, which is implied to be ordered by Z to delay Alpha's plan.
I think it's cool storytelling that Alrest and Bionis, when creating Origin, tried to essentially create their own trinity processor with only one core and that fucked them over.
- If Pneuma and Logos are the weapons, which after reading this thread I'm inclined to believe... Why are they just weapons and not characters any more? I need convincing explanation as to why Pyra/Mythra (if they are still Pneuma) are not part of this. XC3 was conceived at the same time as XC2, so they knew what was next when they sketched the ending to XC2. Which makes this unresolved matter (a central one for the Trilogy) all the more frustrating, as Mr. Fletcher better expressed in the quoted post below.
This is the only storytelling part of Future Redeemed I was iffy about. I actually have no idea on this one. I'm sure theorizing will put together an explanation over the next several days/weeks, but this is one of the things I missed in the cutscene itself, but on rewatch they were clearly implying that Logos and Pnuema's energy
(if not the cores themselves like we see with Matthew) at least are
powering Matthew and N's weapons. The game
does address this, but the way they do I'm sure will make people even more frustrated. Z has a moment where N leaves to go genocide the city, seems confused that N somehow acquired the Sword of the End(Logos), and says something/implies something like the souls in Origin
maybe orchestrated getting the Logos and Pnuema powered weapons and their will is "as gods" or something? I'll have to watch that scene again.
I'm assuming he's saying Pyra/Mythra backups in Origin being former processor cores may have the ability to impact Aionios and recreate an "equivalent" of Logos and Pnuema for Aionios. Everything but what Z directly says is my personal theorizing, but I'm personally fine that at least they address with Z, but a lot of people won't. As I said, I'm sure there will be more fun theorizing as time goes on.
- I still don't quite understand what is the black fog and its connection to Ontos/Alpha.
A says something to the effect of the black fog/fog beasts being a symptom of the worlds colliding and now Alpha commands them. The fog gathering ahead of annihilation events is clue toward this in X3. Future Connected's black fog events were a sign that the collision was getting closer. Alpha "commanding" them I'm sure is something Origin allows him to do, as Origin essentially is a reality machine that created Aionios. The black fog/annihilation events don't exactly go
against his ultimate goal of erasing the world. Once Z is in control of Origin after this, there would be no reason for him to "command" the fog beasts with Origin because he doesn't want Aionios destroyed.
- The difference between avatars and the rest of people whose data is stored in Origin is that the former keep their memories and thus know the full deal, and also that they don't age? In connection with this, the fact that people that are brought into the cycle remember nothing and have an age limit of 10 years (irrespective of their species/race) is the result of Z's "program" (as in software) manipulating the database of Origin to fulfill Z's desires?
- Why did the heroes of the previous games decide not to interfere? Are they conscious while being inside Origin? Or did I misunderstand this remark.
Linka's affinity dialogue sheds some light on some characters "at random" being brought into Aionios outside of the cycle. Riku's affinity dialogue indicates he's Riki's (or Kino's) child and he remembers the old world too, and we know Riku doesn't age. People have taken these explanations together to mean that if you were brought in "as is" you are aging at the rate of Alrest and Bionis (which from X3 we know is a single moment, "endless now" and all that). This is how Rex and Shulk and Panacea and Linka are still kickin' by the time of Future Redeemed. As for the heroes of the other games, the ones that are stored in Origin, the protagonists likely have no way to access them without
both Melia and Nia, but there are lines indicating that the souls in Origin
may unconsciously have a way to influence Aionios for the positive. (Z's "as gods" voice lines/Riku's explanation of Lucky Seven).
- When A tells Shulk and Rex that passing their life energy to their descendants goes against the rules... I understand those are the rules of Origin, established by Ontos/A itself. Is that correct? And what does this sacrifice mean in practice? I understand Shulk and Rex' data is still recorded in Origin, so does it mean that they renounced to their "mod powers" (following someone's metaphor in this thread which I liked a lot). At this point they no longer work as avatars nor can they be accessed by Z's program?
Not sure what you mean, but I think A was just being a little cheeky because Z's system of the world entailed 10-year terms. Rex and Shulk say they will meet their children again so I'm sure they are going to be reset at the end of X3 like everything else in both worlds. Essentially, since they destroyed Alpha, A will be the Ontos core Origin is "running on" alongside Rex and Shulk's consciousness to "prop up" (I read this as "maintain") the world while humanity gets over its fear of the future, and Noah and co., can reset Origin in 1000ish years. A says Z will seize Origin again after Future Redeemed. I'm sure you could read this as A, and Rex/Shulk's consciousness becoming a new "trinity processor" for Origin to run on until Noah resets Origin instead of the faulty one that was only Alpha. I think those 3 are just making sure Origin maintains Aionios long enough to reset both worlds again even if that means Z is in control until that point.
- Edit: did Z really "stop time" to prevent the collision from happening? I thought what he did was to freeze (or, if you wish, "stop time on") the rebuilding of the new world(s). Because Z has control over Origin, and as I understand it, Origin is able to recreate the worlds, but not to stop the intersection. So I don't think Z has any power over the original worlds, only over what Origin can do.
The
specifics of this people still argue about, but the main points are: worlds collide -> humanity too afraid that Origin won't work -> Origin "glitches" makes Z -> Noah and co. reset Origin -> worlds re-created separately -> Future Redeemed post-credits indicate worlds re-emerge again without destroying each other in the future.
I feel like I need to fly myself to Ginza and have a casual tea with Takahashi and co.
Please. His interviews after X2 were sooooo interesting. I hope he's let loose with interviews now that the "Klaus Saga" is over. I'm sure one good interview would give us so much more to think about.
