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Spoiler Xenoblade 3: Future Redeemed SPOILER THREAD | The outcome was patently obvious.
- Thread starter Linkstrikesback
- Start date
ragolliangatan
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
just wrapped up my playthrough- wow is all I can say. It was such a satisfying DLC and way to bring the games together. I teared up during the end credits seeing the footage from XC-XC3.
The systems, world and characters in the DLC is some of the best stuff Monolithsoft have ever done.
I totally get why they decided to wrap everything up in DLC- as a lot of this would have been impenetrable for people who's 1st entry to the series was XC3.
The systems, world and characters in the DLC is some of the best stuff Monolithsoft have ever done.
I totally get why they decided to wrap everything up in DLC- as a lot of this would have been impenetrable for people who's 1st entry to the series was XC3.
Aleh
«Last Hope»
- Pronouns
- He/Him
With some retcons you can fit Xenoblade X with the rest, same with Saga
Gears could also work without retcons, but it’s the game taking place in the farthest future which makes it easier because it said very little about the things that happened on the Earth of its universe
The only thing that’s hard to reconcile is that the Zohar would have to be in different places at the same time for the timelines to work
Gears could also work without retcons, but it’s the game taking place in the farthest future which makes it easier because it said very little about the things that happened on the Earth of its universe
The only thing that’s hard to reconcile is that the Zohar would have to be in different places at the same time for the timelines to work
Zeal543
Chain Chomp
Finished this, fucking wild. I have some thoughts/comments
-vector logo on the radio, dimitri yuriev's namedrop, and the end of the credits shot mirroring XS3 initially made me think they're just references but...
-does the game imply the sword of the end is comprised of malos? If so how?
-How does mathew's gauntlets have pneuma's core in it?
-how did A and Alpha split? I think it had something to do with ghondor reaching out to na-el when she was possessed but idk
-The ark area only further solidified my opinion in wanting xeno to lean more into sci-fi than fantasy
-are saviorites implied to be some kind of android/realian beings?
also not sure why people are saying this connects X? the circumstances of X's white whales and the ships of humanity presented in FR are wildly different
-vector logo on the radio, dimitri yuriev's namedrop, and the end of the credits shot mirroring XS3 initially made me think they're just references but...
-does the game imply the sword of the end is comprised of malos? If so how?
-How does mathew's gauntlets have pneuma's core in it?
-how did A and Alpha split? I think it had something to do with ghondor reaching out to na-el when she was possessed but idk
-The ark area only further solidified my opinion in wanting xeno to lean more into sci-fi than fantasy
-are saviorites implied to be some kind of android/realian beings?
also not sure why people are saying this connects X? the circumstances of X's white whales and the ships of humanity presented in FR are wildly different
ArchedThunder
Uncle Beerus
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So as someone who loved XB3 until the ending ruined it for me, do y’all think I might like this DLC’s plot?
Tye
All-around Nintendo enjoyer
- Pronouns
- they/them
Okay, so…wow. There’s undoubtedly Xenoblade Chronicles X connections here one way or another, though I’m not sure they’re exactly what people may think at first.
I could certainly be wrong, but here’s my interpretation of the XCX connections:
I think that covers the gist of my thoughts. Whether that’s all correct or not, I’m extremely excited to see where they go with the series next. One thing seems certain, at least—we’re getting more Xenoblade Chronicles X, baby!!
I could certainly be wrong, but here’s my interpretation of the XCX connections:
- The events described on the radio are very similar to XCX’s intro, but not exactly the same…because it’s not the same events as XCX’s intro, but rather a past instance of similar events from a previous version of the universe before it was reset—y’know, Eternal Recurrence and all that, which is where the Xenosaga references become relevant.
- The radio talks of humans that have left Earth before Klaus’s experiment. Meaning that, assuming that the experiment was localized to the planet as is what seems to be the implication, there are survivors of this original Earth who still exist out there.
- I believe these humans who left this Earth are (Xenoblade Chronicles X spoilers) the Samaarians, having left this original Earth that, after Klaus’s experiment, exists in a different plane.
- Aionios (rather, the merged planet that is formed after Aionios) becomes Mira, explaining the space-time anomaly that is the planet, the connections to the world of the Bionis and Mechonis, and the fact that Mira seemingly shouldn’t exist in XCX Earth’s universe—it was a previous Earth that left the universe long ago before a previous reset, existing in a different plane or pocket dimension of some kind due to the Conduit and/or Origin, and eventually it started pulling in things from the universe it originated from (but after it had been reset at least once) kind of like how Earth-turned-Alrest and the world of the Bionis and Mechonis were pulled back together.
- The post-credits scene with the future Aionios—or Mira, rather—shows something falling to the planet; this could be the White Whale, or it could be something that predates that—Mira is still full of mystery, after all!
I think that covers the gist of my thoughts. Whether that’s all correct or not, I’m extremely excited to see where they go with the series next. One thing seems certain, at least—we’re getting more Xenoblade Chronicles X, baby!!
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Tye
All-around Nintendo enjoyer
- Pronouns
- they/them
Holy shit, you’re right, this is extremely similar…I caught another reference to X
The original Ares is the same as Matthew’s Ouroboros
Even more so when you look at the concept art for the original Ares:
…So, is that it? Is the Ares actually Ouroboros?! The original Ares was a “tandem” Skell, after all…
…So, is that it? Is the Ares actually Ouroboros?! The original Ares was a “tandem” Skell, after all…
Ryuusagi no hoshi
Piranha Plant
Right?.
I'm not crazy because when Rex says they wouldn't bet an eye if they were there the camara pants to N's sword and Mathew's gauntlet...
it's weird man haha so many questions.
Ryuusagi no hoshi
Piranha Plant
My completion and "OSDD" fixation wants a clear and direct link between Noa/N and Logos because they do thematically and would make sense because XB1 protagonist Ontos's "Driver" XB2 Pneuma's Driver and XB3 Logos's "Driver" so the trinity box set can make sense lol.
And as a Malos fan i feel shafted haha
And as a Malos fan i feel shafted haha
Thunder84
Inkling
- Pronouns
- He/Him
All three renditions of it are just sublime. Might even top Beyond the Sky for me in the long run.
Mira isn't actually part of the X universe. It exists in some sort of isolated pocket dimension. There's a bunch of dialog and like an entire sidequest line about how even the races with intact spaceships and superior to human engineering couldn't leave even if they wanted to, and that the space around it is "small".
Reading between the lines of some interview quotes, it seems quite likely that a lot of the lore written during X's development wasn't actually for X, and instead formed the basis for Xenoblade 2 and 3, and possibly beyond. Some of the odder things in the Xenoblade X art book seem to be bearing that out.Holy shit, you’re right, this is extremely similar…
Even more so when you look at the concept art for the original Ares:
…So, is that it? Is the Ares actually Ouroboros?! The original Ares was a “tandem” Skell, after all…
RagnarokX
Piranha Plant
I don't think there's an implication that Logos is involved with anything. His core was wrecked. The focus in that scene is N's Lucky Seven (the souls of the XC1 cast) and Mathew's Fist of the End (Pyra and Mythra).
My guess at what's going on with Shulk/Rex and their friends is it seems like all the major characters from the first two games agreed to strict rules not to interfere with the process. When Z began the Endless Now Melia and Nia entered Aionios to try and stear Origin back on course using minimal interference. Melia crafted swords from origin metal infused with the souls of her friends (Lucky Seven) and Nia crafted stones infused with the power of Pyra and Mythra (ouroboros stones). Somehow Pyra and Mythra also became the sheath of the Lucky Seven and became part of Noah and his descendants. When Alpha went haywire Rex and Shulk entered Aionios to stop him. When N combined his Pneuma energy with Matthews his fist fully manifested Pneuma's core crystal. When Shulk and Rex break the rules to help their kids he points out that Pyra, Mythra, and the XC1 cast wouldn't mind them bending the rules for this one thing.
Funny enough I called Noah's gauntlet being Pneuma before release:
carbonaxiom
Piranha Plant
For anyone who has never played Xenosaga, and doesn't have any plans to do so, the following two videos are very interesting to watch because of how they tie back to Xenoblade.
The first video is the opening cutscene to Xenosaga 1, which is now important to Xenoblade. It's when the Conduit is discovered (known as the Zohar in Xenosaga). This is also one of my favorite intros to any video game:
The second video is a long but engaging look through the Xenosaga series and how it connects back to the problems Tetsuya Takahashi has had with getting his full vision made. This video is particularly interesting because it hints that the full story he envisioned decades ago is likely far from complete. There are a lot of spoilers to the Xenosaga games here, so again, only watch if you've already played them or don't mind the spoilers:
The first video is the opening cutscene to Xenosaga 1, which is now important to Xenoblade. It's when the Conduit is discovered (known as the Zohar in Xenosaga). This is also one of my favorite intros to any video game:
The second video is a long but engaging look through the Xenosaga series and how it connects back to the problems Tetsuya Takahashi has had with getting his full vision made. This video is particularly interesting because it hints that the full story he envisioned decades ago is likely far from complete. There are a lot of spoilers to the Xenosaga games here, so again, only watch if you've already played them or don't mind the spoilers:
I really did think that the scene was talking about Pneuma and Logos. That was definitely my first impression of it, but I admit it could just be simply talking about Pyra and Mythra.
There's a scene that seemed like very blatant foreshadowing of this. In the conversation between A, Shulk and Rex, A mentions that if Pneuma and Logos were here they would say that all life is worth saving. Rex agrees with that. So then if they are really the other cores the final cutscene is just a natural continuation of this: Pneuma and Logos collaborate to invalidate what Ontos is trying to do, so that no life is left behind.
The camera definitely pans to both N's sword and Matthew's right fist when Rex is talking bout "them" (and also after he says "those two" now that I think about it), and we know the Pneuma core is inside Matthew's right fist at that point.
It's also a bit hard to imagine either Pyra or Mythra manifesting as something that looks like N's sword. I mean just look at this thing:
Now of course there are problems with this. The most obvious one is that Logos should be gone. You can come up with theories to circumvent this like Klaus taking pity on both of his children and not just one, or its connection to the Conduit allowing him to exist as residual data/a soul and then entering Origin inadvertently or something but they are just theories. You don't have to do that with Pneuma, although it should be noted that according to what characters say, Pyra and Mythra no longer operate as Pneuma, and Pneuma shouldn't be here either (even A expresses surprise at the light coming of Matthew's fist).
The other is that Logos is never actually seen on N's sword. Though neither is Pneuma.
And there's another minor one, Rex uses the word "them" which is basically how Pyra and Mythra are referred to throughout FR. Rex had no problem just saying Pneuma and Logos before.
Now I admit I really like the Pneuma/Logos theory a lot more than the Pyra/Mythra one. It's just so cool thematically. It means that basically Origin has become a Trinity Processor surrogate for the whole of humanity. Ontos as the sole remaining core and as the cornerstone of Origin and with no emotional nor moral input from Logos and Pneuma decides that the old humanity is not worth saving. Then Pneuma and Logos manifest themselves to cancel out his unilateral decision, by lending their power to both sides of the conflict, because they do believe all life is worth saving like the previous conversation hinted at. From that point onwards Ontos (now using A as an avatar) goes back to its natural role of impartial arbiter, while Pneuma (embodied by Ouroboros and Noah) and Logos (embodied by Moebius and N) are locked in a stalemate for the next 1000 years (this is another reason why the Pyra and Mythra theory doesn't sit right with me, would they really disagree to such an extreme?). Then when Noah and N integrate and finally come to an understanding, it also means by extension that Pneuma and Logos finally reach a consensus and thus humanity is able to settle on a decision, carried out by Origin/Ontos.
Edit: There's also this really blatant visual callback to Rex and Pyra's first fight with Malos:
Edit 2: Also the whole thing more or less kinda would explain why Ouroboros = Green energy and Moebius = Purple energy
There's a scene that seemed like very blatant foreshadowing of this. In the conversation between A, Shulk and Rex, A mentions that if Pneuma and Logos were here they would say that all life is worth saving. Rex agrees with that. So then if they are really the other cores the final cutscene is just a natural continuation of this: Pneuma and Logos collaborate to invalidate what Ontos is trying to do, so that no life is left behind.
The camera definitely pans to both N's sword and Matthew's right fist when Rex is talking bout "them" (and also after he says "those two" now that I think about it), and we know the Pneuma core is inside Matthew's right fist at that point.
It's also a bit hard to imagine either Pyra or Mythra manifesting as something that looks like N's sword. I mean just look at this thing:
Now of course there are problems with this. The most obvious one is that Logos should be gone. You can come up with theories to circumvent this like Klaus taking pity on both of his children and not just one, or its connection to the Conduit allowing him to exist as residual data/a soul and then entering Origin inadvertently or something but they are just theories. You don't have to do that with Pneuma, although it should be noted that according to what characters say, Pyra and Mythra no longer operate as Pneuma, and Pneuma shouldn't be here either (even A expresses surprise at the light coming of Matthew's fist).
The other is that Logos is never actually seen on N's sword. Though neither is Pneuma.
And there's another minor one, Rex uses the word "them" which is basically how Pyra and Mythra are referred to throughout FR. Rex had no problem just saying Pneuma and Logos before.
Now I admit I really like the Pneuma/Logos theory a lot more than the Pyra/Mythra one. It's just so cool thematically. It means that basically Origin has become a Trinity Processor surrogate for the whole of humanity. Ontos as the sole remaining core and as the cornerstone of Origin and with no emotional nor moral input from Logos and Pneuma decides that the old humanity is not worth saving. Then Pneuma and Logos manifest themselves to cancel out his unilateral decision, by lending their power to both sides of the conflict, because they do believe all life is worth saving like the previous conversation hinted at. From that point onwards Ontos (now using A as an avatar) goes back to its natural role of impartial arbiter, while Pneuma (embodied by Ouroboros and Noah) and Logos (embodied by Moebius and N) are locked in a stalemate for the next 1000 years (this is another reason why the Pyra and Mythra theory doesn't sit right with me, would they really disagree to such an extreme?). Then when Noah and N integrate and finally come to an understanding, it also means by extension that Pneuma and Logos finally reach a consensus and thus humanity is able to settle on a decision, carried out by Origin/Ontos.
Edit: There's also this really blatant visual callback to Rex and Pyra's first fight with Malos:
Edit 2: Also the whole thing more or less kinda would explain why Ouroboros = Green energy and Moebius = Purple energy
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Mr.Fletcher
Bob-omb
While the winks and nods to the wider Xeno universe are cool and welcome - I have mixed feelings about this as a conclusion to this trilogy/saga.
Or more to the point, how it leaves the characters. I think XC3, plus an extra £30 and a 20-hour DLC later, finally feels like the stopping point Takahashi spoke of.
It does, just about, bring the story full circle. It’s kind of incredible and sad at the same time that you could cut XC3 out of the entire timeline, infer what happens in these credits and kind of miss ‘nothing’.
But before I talk about a few of my frustrations, I want to say I’m really glad this DLC exists. Uniting Rex and Shulk, showing their kids in Glimmer and Nikol, and reintroducing Alvis/Ontos/Alpha/A are all worthwhile additions to the lore. It offers some cool fan service moments, serves up some nice fatherly interactions and ties up XC.
I like what they did with the trinity processor - the explanation that Pneuma and Logos balance out Ontos. The idea that Ontos sits somewhere between male and female was cool and tied in nicely with Alvis and A as we know them. Alpha needing to take control of a vessel was a cool nod to Zanza and his overarching intention to use Origin to create a new world was fascinating. The depiction of our world and its transformation into the Morytha we see in XC2… again, great stuff.
I think Rex and Shulk’s departure was also handled very well (would have been nice to see Fiora and P+M waiting within that light, or even their respective parties, but you can’t have everything). Their goodbye to their kids felt genuine and it wasn’t painted as a ‘death’, more passing the baton.
‘We‘ve run our race kids, see you in the next one’.
How they wrote Rex and Shulk out of the story was always going to be crucial to how much I, and I imagine many others, felt about they DLC and they got it right. I’m also really glad that both Shulk and Rex recognised their kids as their kids and while it would have been great to see that out in the open, it was well put together.
I also thought the idea of Rex and Shulk establishing a truce with Z, with all parties involved forced to work together to stop Alpha was cool. A few days before release, I speculated that maybe the endless now was a necessary evil to stop this threat. I don’t think that’s quite right, but there’s a kernel of truth to the idea. N didn’t get fleshed out to the same degree Jin did in XC2’s prequel, but he had some good moments and I really liked his role in the story. The idea of delivering on the DLC key art being N fighting alongside Rex and Shulk to defeat a greater threat is inspired. After sleeping on it, it really feels right and satisfying.
I also liked all the little titbits of lore we got, such as children inheriting their parents’ core crystal (and perhaps their gender? I can’t remember). The game is stuffed full of little references and confirmations that made a super fan like me grin from ear-to-ear.
I could go on but suffice to say, I think you can tell a lot of love and care was poured into this and it really was, no fooling, one for the fans. And whatever else I say about the DLC, it gave me all this and for that I am grateful. XC3 felt like it gave fans of XC and XC2 nothing - this feels like something at the very least. I think it ends in a way where you can feel some sense of closure on the wider Xenoblade universe and rest easy knowing our parties get their happy ending.
So that said, what am I not keen on? Where are these mixed feelings coming from?
I feel a little letdown with how we said farewell to our heroes - not Rex and Shulk - but their rebooted world counterparts and the wider cast. And that’s where, as a DLC trying to serve as both a prequel to a game that barely cared it was a sequel and as a continuation of two other games, it just runs out of road.
Rex and Shulk ride off into the sunset while the rest of our heroes are nowhere to be seen. Of course, the argument is they’ve been assimilated into Origin, but it feels like a contrived way to axe fan favourites and keep the cast size down.
‘Well, how did you guys survive then?’.
’Don’t know, but we’re here’.
It’s not satisfying and to not see the heroes we’ve spent a decade or more with feels a little hollow. The DLC is scared to name these characters too. We get a few name drops here and there, but at least in the main campaign and the optional content I’ve consumed, I don’t think I’ve seen the likes of P+M or whoever else mentioned once directly. I think even if some of these characters had appeared in some kind of post credits scene in a non-speaking role I would have been delighted.
And, with just a hint of bitterness, I’ll make the point - a full game, £30 and a DLC later, I’m still left with a Monado Rex on the wall and a photograph. And that’s disappointing. What’s worse, the DLC shows the worlds reuniting - something the main game didn’t do, and yet we still get no closure, even for Noah and co. It might sound crazy but I don’t think they went far enough with the fan service - there’s a lot here, but it’s missing some really key parts for me.
If the main game wrapped up the themes of Xenoblade, and the DLC tied up the lore and brought the story full circle, I’m still waiting for something that sends these characters off in a way I find satisfying. There’s a degree of reverence for Rex and Shulk during their goodbye, but throughout the DLC I very much felt like I was playing a DLC - a DLC trying to do these characters justice in a format that wasn’t fit for purpose.
There’s some great character stuff here for sure, but you can feel the nips and tucks throughout when it comes to cutscene quality, their frequency and so on. The DLC is also so hellbent on basically creating an entire game’s worth of plot because XC3 made a mess of it, it can’t devote more time to its characters. The team did a really good job with the limited resources they had at their disposal to make this DLC, but this isn’t how I wanted bid farewell to these games.
Monolith Soft was probably an additional two minutes or heaven forbid… a new photograph or two away from sticking the landing for these characters. It wouldn’t change what I’ve said above, but it would have put a bow on top of our character’s adventures. People playing XC3 don’t care what happens to a few dozen people they know nothing about, but I bet a lot of the people playing this do. This was their chance to do it. Name all these characters, give them a concrete happy ending, pay off that investment in the franchise and move on. As I say, I think this DLC does that for the larger narrative, but not those characters housed within it.
It’s unfair to have a sense of disappointment that a prequel DLC didn’t give me the closure I craved from a game set a thousand years later… but the devs did so much here, they’re so close… but it’s just not quite there for me.
And in regards to the main party in FR, I think they‘re good but it’s a bit of a mixed bag.
I personally think Rex is the strongest character in this game. He makes a hell of an entrance too. He comes across as a working class, hardened fighter and I think his initial friction with and eventual connection to Glimmer is well done. He’s still got some goofy one-liners and very much feels like an evolution of the character we left behind at the end of XC2 - albeit having been put under significant stress. I loved his little reference to Zeke - acknowledging that it sucks not to have an eye but a man he once looked up to had an ‘eye thing‘ going on too, so it’s cool. I also like how they depicted his relationship with Shulk and he very much felt like the dad of the group.
I think Glimmer was a strong party member too. Very much a riff on Mythra, Glimmer is the only character who causes conflict in the party. She starts off sarcastic and not interested in teaming up, but slowly warms to it. She gets scolded by Rex for being reckless and then she gradually starts to recognise the importance of what they’re doing … though she never stops being abrasive and at times, confrontational. There’s a nice line from her saying that she’s still not totally over being deprived of her homecoming, but that this mission their on is more important. It shows growth.
I loved the chat between her and Rex before they set off for Origin. Glimmer kind of questions why Rex wants to help everyone and he gives an answer which directly ties back to his final ‘answer’ to Malos in XC2’s last boss fight.
It’s well-known that I’m a huge fan of the second game, but I do think these two are the stand outs. They challenge each other, and help develop one another. There’s also shades of and callbacks to Rex, Addam and Mythra’s relationships throughout. And it’s the classic idea of the father seeing some of himself (and his partner) in his child, but not knowing quite how to handle them. He goes overboard with the criticism when he first meets Glimmer in a bid to stop her putting herself in harm’s way again, he also doesn’t want the kids to come with them for the final fight, etc. He’s protective and she’s headstrong.
In a larger game this would have been even better, so it’s a shame all this is relegated to a DLC. But as a fan I was happy with how they were handled.
However, I think Shulk and Nikol get the short end of the stick in comparison.
We all joked that Shulk looked tired in the trailers ahead of release, but I didn’t expect to see so much of that sentiment manifest in the game. He feels low impact and really under-written throughout to me. His introduction feels a bit nothing compared to Rex and he just… kind of hangs around. I did like when an older, slightly more fearful Shulk asks A if she can foresee their futures as they approach Alpha - I thought that was a nice evolution of the character. A world-weary warrior who once laughed at the notion of fate now wanted to know what it had in store for him. It shows how the passage of time can temper our bravery, no matter who we are. He’s still cool but he feels less essential than I thought he would.
Shulk’s character isn’t helped by Nikol who is just a carbon copy of him without the coolness factor. It’s adorable to see them bond over technology, but it happens right from the off and doesn’t go anywhere afterwards. Nikol has his entire life turned upside down, meets it with a shrug and just becomes the party‘s dog for the rest of the game. Perhaps in a larger game, Nikol would have been built up and eventually had a badass moment to demonstrate his growth. Not in this DLC.
Again, Shulk is still perfectly fine, he’s Shulk after all. But he definitely feels the lesser of the two returning heroes to me (he’s also pretty naff in gameplay compared to Rex). His relationship with Nikol feels less fleshed out than the other father/kid duo, and there’s fewer parallels to draw simply because Fiora plays a much smaller role than P+M, and has less backstory to work with.
I think the relationship Shulk and Nikol have is serviceable, but I think it needed an extra dimension to take it to the next level. I’ve not done all the affinity moments so maybe there’s something cool hidden in one of those, but talking about the main story, they feel slightly underdeveloped to me. And that’s a shame as a huge fan of the original game - though this DLC does lean massively into the world of XC so maybe that’s the trade off.
I have a lot less to say about A and Matthew. Not because they’re bad, but they are simpler characters. They aren’t evolutions of characters we’ve spent 70 hours with before and have to find time to develop in this story, which is really busy trying to tie up lots of loose ends.
I really like A. Loved her voice, her callbacks to Alvis and her general vibe. She felt like an older sister caring for Matthew. She often calls out his stupidity and her dry sense of humour was a lot of fun to engage with. Her role in the story and her importance in the larger Xeno narrative were both well done. It’s difficult to write much about A because she doesn’t go through some crazy change, she doesn't have an arc per say - and that’s fine, she doesn’t need one. She works as intended. I liked her a lot and enjoyed her company,
Matthew is cool. I’d probably put him at the bottom of the Xenoblade MC pile, but he’s still fun. I liked his accent as it gave him a unique flavour and his boisterous, enthusiastic and caring demeanour were well captured. It does feel surreal to see a hyper advanced super computer talking to a bloke who shrugs off the worries of the world with, basically, ‘we’ll work it out bruv, init’, but I liked him. His journey to find his sister is the heart of the story, even if it gets overshadowed at the end, There’s definitely a bit of Rex in him and I like how Matthew thinks of him as a man after his own heart. They’re very different characters, but there’s shades of Rex in Matthew.
A few other random bits and bobs -
- Prison Island is the second best final dungeon in the series after the World Tree. You had the spectacle of making your way up to Origin, it wasn’t too long, or too tough. It was just right.
- I think they did a great job of making this DLC feel big - even if I don’t think this should have been the format for these heroes’ final journey, Monolith Soft really went all out trying to give this the scope of a traditional game.
- In the same way I was delighted to see the Mechonis Sword serve at the City in XC3, I was chuffed that Colony 9 was the base of operations. This is the kind of recycling of environments and landmarks I love (and there’s not enough examples of this in XC3).
- I was really disappointed not to see Pyra and Mythra and I think they purposely referenced Pneuma rather than them to basically say, Pyra and Mythra are in Origin - but the power of the processor is wielded independent of them in Aionios. This is basically what you can infer, though nothing is actually said. It’s part of an unsatisfying answer… but it’s still more than the nothing burger we got in the base game. Mythra’s kid will remain a mystery…
- I wish they’d found a way to bring Logos back. That processor not being there feels like a miss. I know some speculate N may have it, but I’ve seen differing theories and lore titbits that at least challenge that, so I won’t come down on any side.
- The final boss was spectacle done right - a lot better than the last one in the base game. The party interacts more with Alpha in this DLC, than the main party does with Z.
- Rex is easily the strongest character in this game from a gameplay perspective. And his synergy with Glimmer is brilliant. Their unity attack is the best one.
And the last point I want to touch on in this mammoth post is ‘Future Redeemed v Torna’. I think the former obviously learns from the latter and is probably a better ‘game‘ (scope, systems, no roadblocks, etc) that tells a more significant story in the greater Xenoblade timeline.
But I think as a piece of DLC, as a companion piece to the game it grew from, Torna is a more satisfying expansion. It confidently sits alongside XC2, where as FR has to crowbar some important lore into XC3 to make the base game make sense.
XC2 and Torna feels like one complete story, where as XC3 and FR feel like two distinct, but connected stories. And no amount of fan service and returning heroes can make up for that. Too much was held back from XC3 and while this goes some way to improving XC3, it doesn’t absolve the base game of its sins.
XC3 remains in last place on the podium for me, even with this DLC factored in. But at least this DLC did right by the fans. Am I totally satisfied? No.
But do I feel better about the conclusion to the Klaus Saga? Yes, definitely. Thanks for reading.
Or more to the point, how it leaves the characters. I think XC3, plus an extra £30 and a 20-hour DLC later, finally feels like the stopping point Takahashi spoke of.
It does, just about, bring the story full circle. It’s kind of incredible and sad at the same time that you could cut XC3 out of the entire timeline, infer what happens in these credits and kind of miss ‘nothing’.
But before I talk about a few of my frustrations, I want to say I’m really glad this DLC exists. Uniting Rex and Shulk, showing their kids in Glimmer and Nikol, and reintroducing Alvis/Ontos/Alpha/A are all worthwhile additions to the lore. It offers some cool fan service moments, serves up some nice fatherly interactions and ties up XC.
I like what they did with the trinity processor - the explanation that Pneuma and Logos balance out Ontos. The idea that Ontos sits somewhere between male and female was cool and tied in nicely with Alvis and A as we know them. Alpha needing to take control of a vessel was a cool nod to Zanza and his overarching intention to use Origin to create a new world was fascinating. The depiction of our world and its transformation into the Morytha we see in XC2… again, great stuff.
I think Rex and Shulk’s departure was also handled very well (would have been nice to see Fiora and P+M waiting within that light, or even their respective parties, but you can’t have everything). Their goodbye to their kids felt genuine and it wasn’t painted as a ‘death’, more passing the baton.
‘We‘ve run our race kids, see you in the next one’.
How they wrote Rex and Shulk out of the story was always going to be crucial to how much I, and I imagine many others, felt about they DLC and they got it right. I’m also really glad that both Shulk and Rex recognised their kids as their kids and while it would have been great to see that out in the open, it was well put together.
I also thought the idea of Rex and Shulk establishing a truce with Z, with all parties involved forced to work together to stop Alpha was cool. A few days before release, I speculated that maybe the endless now was a necessary evil to stop this threat. I don’t think that’s quite right, but there’s a kernel of truth to the idea. N didn’t get fleshed out to the same degree Jin did in XC2’s prequel, but he had some good moments and I really liked his role in the story. The idea of delivering on the DLC key art being N fighting alongside Rex and Shulk to defeat a greater threat is inspired. After sleeping on it, it really feels right and satisfying.
I also liked all the little titbits of lore we got, such as children inheriting their parents’ core crystal (and perhaps their gender? I can’t remember). The game is stuffed full of little references and confirmations that made a super fan like me grin from ear-to-ear.
I could go on but suffice to say, I think you can tell a lot of love and care was poured into this and it really was, no fooling, one for the fans. And whatever else I say about the DLC, it gave me all this and for that I am grateful. XC3 felt like it gave fans of XC and XC2 nothing - this feels like something at the very least. I think it ends in a way where you can feel some sense of closure on the wider Xenoblade universe and rest easy knowing our parties get their happy ending.
So that said, what am I not keen on? Where are these mixed feelings coming from?
I feel a little letdown with how we said farewell to our heroes - not Rex and Shulk - but their rebooted world counterparts and the wider cast. And that’s where, as a DLC trying to serve as both a prequel to a game that barely cared it was a sequel and as a continuation of two other games, it just runs out of road.
Rex and Shulk ride off into the sunset while the rest of our heroes are nowhere to be seen. Of course, the argument is they’ve been assimilated into Origin, but it feels like a contrived way to axe fan favourites and keep the cast size down.
‘Well, how did you guys survive then?’.
’Don’t know, but we’re here’.
It’s not satisfying and to not see the heroes we’ve spent a decade or more with feels a little hollow. The DLC is scared to name these characters too. We get a few name drops here and there, but at least in the main campaign and the optional content I’ve consumed, I don’t think I’ve seen the likes of P+M or whoever else mentioned once directly. I think even if some of these characters had appeared in some kind of post credits scene in a non-speaking role I would have been delighted.
And, with just a hint of bitterness, I’ll make the point - a full game, £30 and a DLC later, I’m still left with a Monado Rex on the wall and a photograph. And that’s disappointing. What’s worse, the DLC shows the worlds reuniting - something the main game didn’t do, and yet we still get no closure, even for Noah and co. It might sound crazy but I don’t think they went far enough with the fan service - there’s a lot here, but it’s missing some really key parts for me.
If the main game wrapped up the themes of Xenoblade, and the DLC tied up the lore and brought the story full circle, I’m still waiting for something that sends these characters off in a way I find satisfying. There’s a degree of reverence for Rex and Shulk during their goodbye, but throughout the DLC I very much felt like I was playing a DLC - a DLC trying to do these characters justice in a format that wasn’t fit for purpose.
There’s some great character stuff here for sure, but you can feel the nips and tucks throughout when it comes to cutscene quality, their frequency and so on. The DLC is also so hellbent on basically creating an entire game’s worth of plot because XC3 made a mess of it, it can’t devote more time to its characters. The team did a really good job with the limited resources they had at their disposal to make this DLC, but this isn’t how I wanted bid farewell to these games.
Monolith Soft was probably an additional two minutes or heaven forbid… a new photograph or two away from sticking the landing for these characters. It wouldn’t change what I’ve said above, but it would have put a bow on top of our character’s adventures. People playing XC3 don’t care what happens to a few dozen people they know nothing about, but I bet a lot of the people playing this do. This was their chance to do it. Name all these characters, give them a concrete happy ending, pay off that investment in the franchise and move on. As I say, I think this DLC does that for the larger narrative, but not those characters housed within it.
It’s unfair to have a sense of disappointment that a prequel DLC didn’t give me the closure I craved from a game set a thousand years later… but the devs did so much here, they’re so close… but it’s just not quite there for me.
And in regards to the main party in FR, I think they‘re good but it’s a bit of a mixed bag.
I personally think Rex is the strongest character in this game. He makes a hell of an entrance too. He comes across as a working class, hardened fighter and I think his initial friction with and eventual connection to Glimmer is well done. He’s still got some goofy one-liners and very much feels like an evolution of the character we left behind at the end of XC2 - albeit having been put under significant stress. I loved his little reference to Zeke - acknowledging that it sucks not to have an eye but a man he once looked up to had an ‘eye thing‘ going on too, so it’s cool. I also like how they depicted his relationship with Shulk and he very much felt like the dad of the group.
I think Glimmer was a strong party member too. Very much a riff on Mythra, Glimmer is the only character who causes conflict in the party. She starts off sarcastic and not interested in teaming up, but slowly warms to it. She gets scolded by Rex for being reckless and then she gradually starts to recognise the importance of what they’re doing … though she never stops being abrasive and at times, confrontational. There’s a nice line from her saying that she’s still not totally over being deprived of her homecoming, but that this mission their on is more important. It shows growth.
I loved the chat between her and Rex before they set off for Origin. Glimmer kind of questions why Rex wants to help everyone and he gives an answer which directly ties back to his final ‘answer’ to Malos in XC2’s last boss fight.
It’s well-known that I’m a huge fan of the second game, but I do think these two are the stand outs. They challenge each other, and help develop one another. There’s also shades of and callbacks to Rex, Addam and Mythra’s relationships throughout. And it’s the classic idea of the father seeing some of himself (and his partner) in his child, but not knowing quite how to handle them. He goes overboard with the criticism when he first meets Glimmer in a bid to stop her putting herself in harm’s way again, he also doesn’t want the kids to come with them for the final fight, etc. He’s protective and she’s headstrong.
In a larger game this would have been even better, so it’s a shame all this is relegated to a DLC. But as a fan I was happy with how they were handled.
However, I think Shulk and Nikol get the short end of the stick in comparison.
We all joked that Shulk looked tired in the trailers ahead of release, but I didn’t expect to see so much of that sentiment manifest in the game. He feels low impact and really under-written throughout to me. His introduction feels a bit nothing compared to Rex and he just… kind of hangs around. I did like when an older, slightly more fearful Shulk asks A if she can foresee their futures as they approach Alpha - I thought that was a nice evolution of the character. A world-weary warrior who once laughed at the notion of fate now wanted to know what it had in store for him. It shows how the passage of time can temper our bravery, no matter who we are. He’s still cool but he feels less essential than I thought he would.
Shulk’s character isn’t helped by Nikol who is just a carbon copy of him without the coolness factor. It’s adorable to see them bond over technology, but it happens right from the off and doesn’t go anywhere afterwards. Nikol has his entire life turned upside down, meets it with a shrug and just becomes the party‘s dog for the rest of the game. Perhaps in a larger game, Nikol would have been built up and eventually had a badass moment to demonstrate his growth. Not in this DLC.
Again, Shulk is still perfectly fine, he’s Shulk after all. But he definitely feels the lesser of the two returning heroes to me (he’s also pretty naff in gameplay compared to Rex). His relationship with Nikol feels less fleshed out than the other father/kid duo, and there’s fewer parallels to draw simply because Fiora plays a much smaller role than P+M, and has less backstory to work with.
I think the relationship Shulk and Nikol have is serviceable, but I think it needed an extra dimension to take it to the next level. I’ve not done all the affinity moments so maybe there’s something cool hidden in one of those, but talking about the main story, they feel slightly underdeveloped to me. And that’s a shame as a huge fan of the original game - though this DLC does lean massively into the world of XC so maybe that’s the trade off.
I have a lot less to say about A and Matthew. Not because they’re bad, but they are simpler characters. They aren’t evolutions of characters we’ve spent 70 hours with before and have to find time to develop in this story, which is really busy trying to tie up lots of loose ends.
I really like A. Loved her voice, her callbacks to Alvis and her general vibe. She felt like an older sister caring for Matthew. She often calls out his stupidity and her dry sense of humour was a lot of fun to engage with. Her role in the story and her importance in the larger Xeno narrative were both well done. It’s difficult to write much about A because she doesn’t go through some crazy change, she doesn't have an arc per say - and that’s fine, she doesn’t need one. She works as intended. I liked her a lot and enjoyed her company,
Matthew is cool. I’d probably put him at the bottom of the Xenoblade MC pile, but he’s still fun. I liked his accent as it gave him a unique flavour and his boisterous, enthusiastic and caring demeanour were well captured. It does feel surreal to see a hyper advanced super computer talking to a bloke who shrugs off the worries of the world with, basically, ‘we’ll work it out bruv, init’, but I liked him. His journey to find his sister is the heart of the story, even if it gets overshadowed at the end, There’s definitely a bit of Rex in him and I like how Matthew thinks of him as a man after his own heart. They’re very different characters, but there’s shades of Rex in Matthew.
A few other random bits and bobs -
- Prison Island is the second best final dungeon in the series after the World Tree. You had the spectacle of making your way up to Origin, it wasn’t too long, or too tough. It was just right.
- I think they did a great job of making this DLC feel big - even if I don’t think this should have been the format for these heroes’ final journey, Monolith Soft really went all out trying to give this the scope of a traditional game.
- In the same way I was delighted to see the Mechonis Sword serve at the City in XC3, I was chuffed that Colony 9 was the base of operations. This is the kind of recycling of environments and landmarks I love (and there’s not enough examples of this in XC3).
- I was really disappointed not to see Pyra and Mythra and I think they purposely referenced Pneuma rather than them to basically say, Pyra and Mythra are in Origin - but the power of the processor is wielded independent of them in Aionios. This is basically what you can infer, though nothing is actually said. It’s part of an unsatisfying answer… but it’s still more than the nothing burger we got in the base game. Mythra’s kid will remain a mystery…
- I wish they’d found a way to bring Logos back. That processor not being there feels like a miss. I know some speculate N may have it, but I’ve seen differing theories and lore titbits that at least challenge that, so I won’t come down on any side.
- The final boss was spectacle done right - a lot better than the last one in the base game. The party interacts more with Alpha in this DLC, than the main party does with Z.
- Rex is easily the strongest character in this game from a gameplay perspective. And his synergy with Glimmer is brilliant. Their unity attack is the best one.
And the last point I want to touch on in this mammoth post is ‘Future Redeemed v Torna’. I think the former obviously learns from the latter and is probably a better ‘game‘ (scope, systems, no roadblocks, etc) that tells a more significant story in the greater Xenoblade timeline.
But I think as a piece of DLC, as a companion piece to the game it grew from, Torna is a more satisfying expansion. It confidently sits alongside XC2, where as FR has to crowbar some important lore into XC3 to make the base game make sense.
XC2 and Torna feels like one complete story, where as XC3 and FR feel like two distinct, but connected stories. And no amount of fan service and returning heroes can make up for that. Too much was held back from XC3 and while this goes some way to improving XC3, it doesn’t absolve the base game of its sins.
XC3 remains in last place on the podium for me, even with this DLC factored in. But at least this DLC did right by the fans. Am I totally satisfied? No.
But do I feel better about the conclusion to the Klaus Saga? Yes, definitely. Thanks for reading.
Aleh
«Last Hope»
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I agree I wanted to see Pyra and Mythra more directly, most of all. And some flashbacks during the credits could have easily shown the happy families in the proper worlds (like Morag and Brighid playing with Sena goddamnit). But I kinda get why they didn’t go all the way.While the winks and nods to the wider Xeno universe are cool and welcome - I have mixed feelings about this as a conclusion to this trilogy/saga.
Or more to the point, how it leaves the characters. I think XC3, plus an extra £30 and a 20-hour DLC later, finally feels like the stopping point Takahashi spoke of.
It does, just about, bring the story full circle. It’s kind of incredible and sad at the same time that you could cut XC3 out of the entire timeline, infer what happens in these credits and kind of miss ‘nothing’.
But before I talk about a few of my frustrations, I want to say I’m really glad this DLC exists. Uniting Rex and Shulk, showing their kids in Glimmer and Nikol, and reintroducing Alvis/Ontos/Alpha/A are all worthwhile additions to the lore. It offers some cool fan service moments, serves up some nice fatherly interactions and ties up XC.
I like what they did with the trinity processor - the explanation that Pneuma and Logos balance out Ontos. The idea that Ontos sits somewhere between male and female was cool and tied in nicely with Alvis and A as we know them. Alpha needing to take control of a vessel was a cool nod to Zanza and his overarching intention to use Origin to create a new world was fascinating. The depiction of our world and its transformation into the Morytha we see in XC2… again, great stuff.
I think Rex and Shulk’s departure was also handled very well (would have been nice to see Fiora and P+M waiting within that light, or even their respective parties, but you can’t have everything). Their goodbye to their kids felt genuine and it wasn’t painted as a ‘death’, more passing the baton.
‘We‘ve run our race kids, see you in the next one’.
How they wrote Rex and Shulk out of the story was always going to be crucial to how much I, and I imagine many others, felt about they DLC and they got it right. I’m also really glad that both Shulk and Rex recognised their kids as their kids and while it would have been great to see that out in the open, it was well put together.
I also thought the idea of Rex and Shulk establishing a truce with Z, with all parties involved forced to work together to stop Alpha was cool. A few days before release, I speculated that maybe the endless now was a necessary evil to stop this threat. I don’t think that’s quite right, but there’s a kernel of truth to the idea. N didn’t get fleshed out to the same degree Jin did in XC2’s prequel, but he had some good moments and I really liked his role in the story. The idea of delivering on the DLC key art being N fighting alongside Rex and Shulk to defeat a greater threat is inspired. After sleeping on it, it really feels right and satisfying.
I also liked all the little titbits of lore we got, such as children inheriting their parents’ core crystal (and perhaps their gender? I can’t remember). The game is stuffed full of little references and confirmations that made a super fan like me grin from ear-to-ear.
I could go on but suffice to say, I think you can tell a lot of love and care was poured into this and it really was, no fooling, one for the fans. And whatever else I say about the DLC, it gave me all this and for that I am grateful. XC3 felt like it gave fans of XC and XC2 nothing - this feels like something at the very least. I think it ends in a way where you can feel some sense of closure on the wider Xenoblade universe and rest easy knowing our parties get their happy ending.
So that said, what am I not keen on? Where are these mixed feelings coming from?
I feel a little letdown with how we said farewell to our heroes - not Rex and Shulk - but their rebooted world counterparts and the wider cast. And that’s where, as a DLC trying to serve as both a prequel to a game that barely cared it was a sequel and as a continuation of two other games, it just runs out of road.
Rex and Shulk ride off into the sunset while the rest of our heroes are nowhere to be seen. Of course, the argument is they’ve been assimilated into Origin, but it feels like a contrived way to axe fan favourites and keep the cast size down.
‘Well, how did you guys survive then?’.
’Don’t know, but we’re here’.
It’s not satisfying and to not see the heroes we’ve spent a decade or more with feels a little hollow. The DLC is scared to name these characters too. We get a few name drops here and there, but at least in the main campaign and the optional content I’ve consumed, I don’t think I’ve seen the likes of P+M or whoever else mentioned once directly. I think even if some of these characters had appeared in some kind of post credits scene in a non-speaking role I would have been delighted.
And, with just a hint of bitterness, I’ll make the point - a full game, £30 and a DLC later, I’m still left with a Monado Rex on the wall and a photograph. And that’s disappointing. What’s worse, the DLC shows the worlds reuniting - something the main game didn’t do, and yet we still get no closure, even for Noah and co. It might sound crazy but I don’t think they went far enough with the fan service - there’s a lot here, but it’s missing some really key parts for me.
If the main game wrapped up the themes of Xenoblade, and the DLC tied up the lore and brought the story full circle, I’m still waiting for something that sends these characters off in a way I find satisfying. There’s a degree of reverence for Rex and Shulk during their goodbye, but throughout the DLC I very much felt like I was playing a DLC - a DLC trying to do these characters justice in a format that wasn’t fit for purpose.
There’s some great character stuff here for sure, but you can feel the nips and tucks throughout when it comes to cutscene quality, their frequency and so on. The DLC is also so hellbent on basically creating an entire game’s worth of plot because XC3 made a mess of it, it can’t devote more time to its characters. The team did a really good job with the limited resources they had at their disposal to make this DLC, but this isn’t how I wanted bid farewell to these games.
Monolith Soft was probably an additional two minutes or heaven forbid… a new photograph or two away from sticking the landing for these characters. It wouldn’t change what I’ve said above, but it would have put a bow on top of our character’s adventures. People playing XC3 don’t care what happens to a few dozen people they know nothing about, but I bet a lot of the people playing this do. This was their chance to do it. Name all these characters, give them a concrete happy ending, pay off that investment in the franchise and move on. As I say, I think this DLC does that for the larger narrative, but not those characters housed within it.
It’s unfair to have a sense of disappointment that a prequel DLC didn’t give me the closure I craved from a game set a thousand years later… but the devs did so much here, they’re so close… but it’s just not quite there for me.
And in regards to the main party in FR, I think they‘re good but it’s a bit of a mixed bag.
I personally think Rex is the strongest character in this game. He makes a hell of an entrance too. He comes across as a working class, hardened fighter and I think his initial friction with and eventual connection to Glimmer is well done. He’s still got some goofy one-liners and very much feels like an evolution of the character we left behind at the end of XC2 - albeit having been put under significant stress. I loved his little reference to Zeke - acknowledging that it sucks not to have an eye but a man he once looked up to had an ‘eye thing‘ going on too, so it’s cool. I also like how they depicted his relationship with Shulk and he very much felt like the dad of the group.
I think Glimmer was a strong party member too. Very much a riff on Mythra, Glimmer is the only character who causes conflict in the party. She starts off sarcastic and not interested in teaming up, but slowly warms to it. She gets scolded by Rex for being reckless and then she gradually starts to recognise the importance of what they’re doing … though she never stops being abrasive and at times, confrontational. There’s a nice line from her saying that she’s still not totally over being deprived of her homecoming, but that this mission their on is more important. It shows growth.
I loved the chat between her and Rex before they set off for Origin. Glimmer kind of questions why Rex wants to help everyone and he gives an answer which directly ties back to his final ‘answer’ to Malos in XC2’s last boss fight.
It’s well-known that I’m a huge fan of the second game, but I do think these two are the stand outs. They challenge each other, and help develop one another. There’s also shades of and callbacks to Rex, Addam and Mythra’s relationships throughout. And it’s the classic idea of the father seeing some of himself (and his partner) in his child, but not knowing quite how to handle them. He goes overboard with the criticism when he first meets Glimmer in a bid to stop her putting herself in harm’s way again, he also doesn’t want the kids to come with them for the final fight, etc. He’s protective and she’s headstrong.
In a larger game this would have been even better, so it’s a shame all this is relegated to a DLC. But as a fan I was happy with how they were handled.
However, I think Shulk and Nikol get the short end of the stick in comparison.
We all joked that Shulk looked tired in the trailers ahead of release, but I didn’t expect to see so much of that sentiment manifest in the game. He feels low impact and really under-written throughout to me. His introduction feels a bit nothing compared to Rex and he just… kind of hangs around. I did like when an older, slightly more fearful Shulk asks A if she can foresee their futures as they approach Alpha - I thought that was a nice evolution of the character. A world-weary warrior who once laughed at the notion of fate now wanted to know what it had in store for him. It shows how the passage of time can temper our bravery, no matter who we are. He’s still cool but he feels less essential than I thought he would.
Shulk’s character isn’t helped by Nikol who is just a carbon copy of him without the coolness factor. It’s adorable to see them bond over technology, but it happens right from the off and doesn’t go anywhere afterwards. Nikol has his entire life turned upside down, meets it with a shrug and just becomes the party‘s dog for the rest of the game. Perhaps in a larger game, Nikol would have been built up and eventually had a badass moment to demonstrate his growth. Not in this DLC.
Again, Shulk is still perfectly fine, he’s Shulk after all. But he definitely feels the lesser of the two returning heroes to me (he’s also pretty naff in gameplay compared to Rex). His relationship with Nikol feels less fleshed out than the other father/kid duo, and there’s fewer parallels to draw simply because Fiora plays a much smaller role than P+M, and has less backstory to work with.
I think the relationship Shulk and Nikol have is serviceable, but I think it needed an extra dimension to take it to the next level. I’ve not done all the affinity moments so maybe there’s something cool hidden in one of those, but talking about the main story, they feel slightly underdeveloped to me. And that’s a shame as a huge fan of the original game - though this DLC does lean massively into the world of XC so maybe that’s the trade off.
I have a lot less to say about A and Matthew. Not because they’re bad, but they are simpler characters. They aren’t evolutions of characters we’ve spent 70 hours with before and have to find time to develop in this story, which is really busy trying to tie up lots of loose ends.
I really like A. Loved her voice, her callbacks to Alvis and her general vibe. She felt like an older sister caring for Matthew. She often calls out his stupidity and her dry sense of humour was a lot of fun to engage with. Her role in the story and her importance in the larger Xeno narrative were both well done. It’s difficult to write much about A because she doesn’t go through some crazy change, she doesn't have an arc per say - and that’s fine, she doesn’t need one. She works as intended. I liked her a lot and enjoyed her company,
Matthew is cool. I’d probably put him at the bottom of the Xenoblade MC pile, but he’s still fun. I liked his accent as it gave him a unique flavour and his boisterous, enthusiastic and caring demeanour were well captured. It does feel surreal to see a hyper advanced super computer talking to a bloke who shrugs off the worries of the world with, basically, ‘we’ll work it out bruv, init’, but I liked him. His journey to find his sister is the heart of the story, even if it gets overshadowed at the end, There’s definitely a bit of Rex in him and I like how Matthew thinks of him as a man after his own heart. They’re very different characters, but there’s shades of Rex in Matthew.
A few other random bits and bobs -
- Prison Island is the second best final dungeon in the series after the World Tree. You had the spectacle of making your way up to Origin, it wasn’t too long, or too tough. It was just right.
- I think they did a great job of making this DLC feel big - even if I don’t think this should have been the format for these heroes’ final journey, Monolith Soft really went all out trying to give this the scope of a traditional game.
- In the same way I was delighted to see the Mechonis Sword serve at the City in XC3, I was chuffed that Colony 9 was the base of operations. This is the kind of recycling of environments and landmarks I love (and there’s not enough examples of this in XC3).
- I was really disappointed not to see Pyra and Mythra and I think they purposely referenced Pneuma rather than them to basically say, Pyra and Mythra are in Origin - but the power of the processor is wielded independent of them in Aionios. This is basically what you can infer, though nothing is actually said. It’s part of an unsatisfying answer… but it’s still more than the nothing burger we got in the base game. Mythra’s kid will remain a mystery…
- I wish they’d found a way to bring Logos back. That processor not being there feels like a miss. I know some speculate N may have it, but I’ve seen differing theories and lore titbits that at least challenge that, so I won’t come down on any side.
- The final boss was spectacle done right - a lot better than the last one in the base game. The party interacts more with Alpha in this DLC, than the main party does with Z.
- Rex is easily the strongest character in this game from a gameplay perspective. And his synergy with Glimmer is brilliant. Their unity attack is the best one.
And the last point I want to touch on in this mammoth post is ‘Future Redeemed v Torna’. I think the former obviously learns from the latter and is probably a better ‘game‘ (scope, systems, no roadblocks, etc) that tells a more significant story in the greater Xenoblade timeline.
But I think as a piece of DLC, as a companion piece to the game it grew from, Torna is a more satisfying expansion. It confidently sits alongside XC2, where as FR has to crowbar some important lore into XC3 to make the base game make sense.
XC2 and Torna feels like one complete story, where as XC3 and FR feel like two distinct, but connected stories. And no amount of fan service and returning heroes can make up for that. Too much was held back from XC3 and while this goes some way to improving XC3, it doesn’t absolve the base game of its sins.
XC3 remains in last place on the podium for me, even with this DLC factored in. But at least this DLC did right by the fans. Am I totally satisfied? No.
But do I feel better about the conclusion to the Klaus Saga? Yes, definitely. Thanks for reading.
Now that we got the DLC I’m more satisfied with the whole package even if the main game could have used some hints to the events of FR to prop up the ending a bit, at least now on replays I will have the full knowledge necessary to enjoy the story they were trying to tell. And N at least makes more sense as a character which is important too.
We didn’t see the happy ending either but we got confirmation that the worlds merged, which is a hell of a lot better than just Noah hearing a flute lol
My only issue after all this is… this trilogy now is truly done. So whatever they didn’t answer now, basically can’t be explained in the future. The smaller stuff at least. They’re definitely gonna continue with the larger lore stuff
Man I deeply disagree with this. Everything vital about Jin's character is already present in 2, Torna doesn’t particularly do anything beyond giving him more screentime.
FR on the other hand really elevates N. And not just N but this whole idea that the emotions that Moebius represent can be a positive thing too, that the base game kinda touches upon but doesn’t quite deliver. It also makes his "impossible" choice actually impossible. I come away from FR with a very different opinion of N.
Also, that "The one leaving things behind... is you!" line? Just fantastic.
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Cheetah6442
Like Like
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Man, outside of the not naming certain characters like Pyra and Mythra, I heavily disagree with everything else.While the winks and nods to the wider Xeno universe are cool and welcome - I have mixed feelings about this as a conclusion to this trilogy/saga.
Or more to the point, how it leaves the characters. I think XC3, plus an extra £30 and a 20-hour DLC later, finally feels like the stopping point Takahashi spoke of.
It does, just about, bring the story full circle. It’s kind of incredible and sad at the same time that you could cut XC3 out of the entire timeline, infer what happens in these credits and kind of miss ‘nothing’.
But before I talk about a few of my frustrations, I want to say I’m really glad this DLC exists. Uniting Rex and Shulk, showing their kids in Glimmer and Nikol, and reintroducing Alvis/Ontos/Alpha/A are all worthwhile additions to the lore. It offers some cool fan service moments, serves up some nice fatherly interactions and ties up XC.
I like what they did with the trinity processor - the explanation that Pneuma and Logos balance out Ontos. The idea that Ontos sits somewhere between male and female was cool and tied in nicely with Alvis and A as we know them. Alpha needing to take control of a vessel was a cool nod to Zanza and his overarching intention to use Origin to create a new world was fascinating. The depiction of our world and its transformation into the Morytha we see in XC2… again, great stuff.
I think Rex and Shulk’s departure was also handled very well (would have been nice to see Fiora and P+M waiting within that light, or even their respective parties, but you can’t have everything). Their goodbye to their kids felt genuine and it wasn’t painted as a ‘death’, more passing the baton.
‘We‘ve run our race kids, see you in the next one’.
How they wrote Rex and Shulk out of the story was always going to be crucial to how much I, and I imagine many others, felt about they DLC and they got it right. I’m also really glad that both Shulk and Rex recognised their kids as their kids and while it would have been great to see that out in the open, it was well put together.
I also thought the idea of Rex and Shulk establishing a truce with Z, with all parties involved forced to work together to stop Alpha was cool. A few days before release, I speculated that maybe the endless now was a necessary evil to stop this threat. I don’t think that’s quite right, but there’s a kernel of truth to the idea. N didn’t get fleshed out to the same degree Jin did in XC2’s prequel, but he had some good moments and I really liked his role in the story. The idea of delivering on the DLC key art being N fighting alongside Rex and Shulk to defeat a greater threat is inspired. After sleeping on it, it really feels right and satisfying.
I also liked all the little titbits of lore we got, such as children inheriting their parents’ core crystal (and perhaps their gender? I can’t remember). The game is stuffed full of little references and confirmations that made a super fan like me grin from ear-to-ear.
I could go on but suffice to say, I think you can tell a lot of love and care was poured into this and it really was, no fooling, one for the fans. And whatever else I say about the DLC, it gave me all this and for that I am grateful. XC3 felt like it gave fans of XC and XC2 nothing - this feels like something at the very least. I think it ends in a way where you can feel some sense of closure on the wider Xenoblade universe and rest easy knowing our parties get their happy ending.
So that said, what am I not keen on? Where are these mixed feelings coming from?
I feel a little letdown with how we said farewell to our heroes - not Rex and Shulk - but their rebooted world counterparts and the wider cast. And that’s where, as a DLC trying to serve as both a prequel to a game that barely cared it was a sequel and as a continuation of two other games, it just runs out of road.
Rex and Shulk ride off into the sunset while the rest of our heroes are nowhere to be seen. Of course, the argument is they’ve been assimilated into Origin, but it feels like a contrived way to axe fan favourites and keep the cast size down.
‘Well, how did you guys survive then?’.
’Don’t know, but we’re here’.
It’s not satisfying and to not see the heroes we’ve spent a decade or more with feels a little hollow. The DLC is scared to name these characters too. We get a few name drops here and there, but at least in the main campaign and the optional content I’ve consumed, I don’t think I’ve seen the likes of P+M or whoever else mentioned once directly. I think even if some of these characters had appeared in some kind of post credits scene in a non-speaking role I would have been delighted.
And, with just a hint of bitterness, I’ll make the point - a full game, £30 and a DLC later, I’m still left with a Monado Rex on the wall and a photograph. And that’s disappointing. What’s worse, the DLC shows the worlds reuniting - something the main game didn’t do, and yet we still get no closure, even for Noah and co. It might sound crazy but I don’t think they went far enough with the fan service - there’s a lot here, but it’s missing some really key parts for me.
If the main game wrapped up the themes of Xenoblade, and the DLC tied up the lore and brought the story full circle, I’m still waiting for something that sends these characters off in a way I find satisfying. There’s a degree of reverence for Rex and Shulk during their goodbye, but throughout the DLC I very much felt like I was playing a DLC - a DLC trying to do these characters justice in a format that wasn’t fit for purpose.
There’s some great character stuff here for sure, but you can feel the nips and tucks throughout when it comes to cutscene quality, their frequency and so on. The DLC is also so hellbent on basically creating an entire game’s worth of plot because XC3 made a mess of it, it can’t devote more time to its characters. The team did a really good job with the limited resources they had at their disposal to make this DLC, but this isn’t how I wanted bid farewell to these games.
Monolith Soft was probably an additional two minutes or heaven forbid… a new photograph or two away from sticking the landing for these characters. It wouldn’t change what I’ve said above, but it would have put a bow on top of our character’s adventures. People playing XC3 don’t care what happens to a few dozen people they know nothing about, but I bet a lot of the people playing this do. This was their chance to do it. Name all these characters, give them a concrete happy ending, pay off that investment in the franchise and move on. As I say, I think this DLC does that for the larger narrative, but not those characters housed within it.
It’s unfair to have a sense of disappointment that a prequel DLC didn’t give me the closure I craved from a game set a thousand years later… but the devs did so much here, they’re so close… but it’s just not quite there for me.
And in regards to the main party in FR, I think they‘re good but it’s a bit of a mixed bag.
I personally think Rex is the strongest character in this game. He makes a hell of an entrance too. He comes across as a working class, hardened fighter and I think his initial friction with and eventual connection to Glimmer is well done. He’s still got some goofy one-liners and very much feels like an evolution of the character we left behind at the end of XC2 - albeit having been put under significant stress. I loved his little reference to Zeke - acknowledging that it sucks not to have an eye but a man he once looked up to had an ‘eye thing‘ going on too, so it’s cool. I also like how they depicted his relationship with Shulk and he very much felt like the dad of the group.
I think Glimmer was a strong party member too. Very much a riff on Mythra, Glimmer is the only character who causes conflict in the party. She starts off sarcastic and not interested in teaming up, but slowly warms to it. She gets scolded by Rex for being reckless and then she gradually starts to recognise the importance of what they’re doing … though she never stops being abrasive and at times, confrontational. There’s a nice line from her saying that she’s still not totally over being deprived of her homecoming, but that this mission their on is more important. It shows growth.
I loved the chat between her and Rex before they set off for Origin. Glimmer kind of questions why Rex wants to help everyone and he gives an answer which directly ties back to his final ‘answer’ to Malos in XC2’s last boss fight.
It’s well-known that I’m a huge fan of the second game, but I do think these two are the stand outs. They challenge each other, and help develop one another. There’s also shades of and callbacks to Rex, Addam and Mythra’s relationships throughout. And it’s the classic idea of the father seeing some of himself (and his partner) in his child, but not knowing quite how to handle them. He goes overboard with the criticism when he first meets Glimmer in a bid to stop her putting herself in harm’s way again, he also doesn’t want the kids to come with them for the final fight, etc. He’s protective and she’s headstrong.
In a larger game this would have been even better, so it’s a shame all this is relegated to a DLC. But as a fan I was happy with how they were handled.
However, I think Shulk and Nikol get the short end of the stick in comparison.
We all joked that Shulk looked tired in the trailers ahead of release, but I didn’t expect to see so much of that sentiment manifest in the game. He feels low impact and really under-written throughout to me. His introduction feels a bit nothing compared to Rex and he just… kind of hangs around. I did like when an older, slightly more fearful Shulk asks A if she can foresee their futures as they approach Alpha - I thought that was a nice evolution of the character. A world-weary warrior who once laughed at the notion of fate now wanted to know what it had in store for him. It shows how the passage of time can temper our bravery, no matter who we are. He’s still cool but he feels less essential than I thought he would.
Shulk’s character isn’t helped by Nikol who is just a carbon copy of him without the coolness factor. It’s adorable to see them bond over technology, but it happens right from the off and doesn’t go anywhere afterwards. Nikol has his entire life turned upside down, meets it with a shrug and just becomes the party‘s dog for the rest of the game. Perhaps in a larger game, Nikol would have been built up and eventually had a badass moment to demonstrate his growth. Not in this DLC.
Again, Shulk is still perfectly fine, he’s Shulk after all. But he definitely feels the lesser of the two returning heroes to me (he’s also pretty naff in gameplay compared to Rex). His relationship with Nikol feels less fleshed out than the other father/kid duo, and there’s fewer parallels to draw simply because Fiora plays a much smaller role than P+M, and has less backstory to work with.
I think the relationship Shulk and Nikol have is serviceable, but I think it needed an extra dimension to take it to the next level. I’ve not done all the affinity moments so maybe there’s something cool hidden in one of those, but talking about the main story, they feel slightly underdeveloped to me. And that’s a shame as a huge fan of the original game - though this DLC does lean massively into the world of XC so maybe that’s the trade off.
I have a lot less to say about A and Matthew. Not because they’re bad, but they are simpler characters. They aren’t evolutions of characters we’ve spent 70 hours with before and have to find time to develop in this story, which is really busy trying to tie up lots of loose ends.
I really like A. Loved her voice, her callbacks to Alvis and her general vibe. She felt like an older sister caring for Matthew. She often calls out his stupidity and her dry sense of humour was a lot of fun to engage with. Her role in the story and her importance in the larger Xeno narrative were both well done. It’s difficult to write much about A because she doesn’t go through some crazy change, she doesn't have an arc per say - and that’s fine, she doesn’t need one. She works as intended. I liked her a lot and enjoyed her company,
Matthew is cool. I’d probably put him at the bottom of the Xenoblade MC pile, but he’s still fun. I liked his accent as it gave him a unique flavour and his boisterous, enthusiastic and caring demeanour were well captured. It does feel surreal to see a hyper advanced super computer talking to a bloke who shrugs off the worries of the world with, basically, ‘we’ll work it out bruv, init’, but I liked him. His journey to find his sister is the heart of the story, even if it gets overshadowed at the end, There’s definitely a bit of Rex in him and I like how Matthew thinks of him as a man after his own heart. They’re very different characters, but there’s shades of Rex in Matthew.
A few other random bits and bobs -
- Prison Island is the second best final dungeon in the series after the World Tree. You had the spectacle of making your way up to Origin, it wasn’t too long, or too tough. It was just right.
- I think they did a great job of making this DLC feel big - even if I don’t think this should have been the format for these heroes’ final journey, Monolith Soft really went all out trying to give this the scope of a traditional game.
- In the same way I was delighted to see the Mechonis Sword serve at the City in XC3, I was chuffed that Colony 9 was the base of operations. This is the kind of recycling of environments and landmarks I love (and there’s not enough examples of this in XC3).
- I was really disappointed not to see Pyra and Mythra and I think they purposely referenced Pneuma rather than them to basically say, Pyra and Mythra are in Origin - but the power of the processor is wielded independent of them in Aionios. This is basically what you can infer, though nothing is actually said. It’s part of an unsatisfying answer… but it’s still more than the nothing burger we got in the base game. Mythra’s kid will remain a mystery…
- I wish they’d found a way to bring Logos back. That processor not being there feels like a miss. I know some speculate N may have it, but I’ve seen differing theories and lore titbits that at least challenge that, so I won’t come down on any side.
- The final boss was spectacle done right - a lot better than the last one in the base game. The party interacts more with Alpha in this DLC, than the main party does with Z.
- Rex is easily the strongest character in this game from a gameplay perspective. And his synergy with Glimmer is brilliant. Their unity attack is the best one.
And the last point I want to touch on in this mammoth post is ‘Future Redeemed v Torna’. I think the former obviously learns from the latter and is probably a better ‘game‘ (scope, systems, no roadblocks, etc) that tells a more significant story in the greater Xenoblade timeline.
But I think as a piece of DLC, as a companion piece to the game it grew from, Torna is a more satisfying expansion. It confidently sits alongside XC2, where as FR has to crowbar some important lore into XC3 to make the base game make sense.
XC2 and Torna feels like one complete story, where as XC3 and FR feel like two distinct, but connected stories. And no amount of fan service and returning heroes can make up for that. Too much was held back from XC3 and while this goes some way to improving XC3, it doesn’t absolve the base game of its sins.
XC3 remains in last place on the podium for me, even with this DLC factored in. But at least this DLC did right by the fans. Am I totally satisfied? No.
But do I feel better about the conclusion to the Klaus Saga? Yes, definitely. Thanks for reading.
Semajer
Octorok
It's possible you will, but it depends on what you didn't like about the ending. I wasn't too keen on 3's ending, but with what I know now due to Future Redeemed I'm a lot happier with 3's story and ending as a whole. Aside from that, if you've played all the other games in the series the DLC's ending should appeal to you.
Came in here after finishing and now wish again Namco Bandai would rerelease the Xenosaga games lol. Feels like I’m missing out on a whole dimension here always lol.
Anyway I dug Future Redeemed a ton. The moment it really got me was walking up to Colony 9 for the first time not expecting it was there and hearing the field and then battle music and being like “YOOO!!!” Super sad seeing half the town just gone, but the entrance plaza and weird second floor layout being preserved was surreal to re-experience and I loved too getting so much Gaur Plains love between the Aurora Shelf and Raguel Lake.
I wanted more time with everyone, especially Shulk and Rex, but getting to go on one more adventure with both of them was great. Historically, Rex is my least favorite Xenoblade protagonist, but this DLC redeemed him a good deal.
Beyond that some of my favorite moments included finally learning what was up with Riku in an extra amusing way (Riki has the best children) and visiting Old Los Angeles or wherever they wound up. My anime squad looked so amusingly out of place there lol. Also the final boss fight was rad and infinitely better than Z and the final Ouroboros blow was incredible. I definitely would have liked to see all of the characters beyond 3’s ending, but I am glad it keeps 3’s ending intact a little longer. Maybe in another game or some other form we’ll see all of these characters again. One last thing, I loved seeing all of the Xenoblade X tie ins, I’m super curious whatever will come of that. I think my near future hope for the series is an expanded port of Xenoblade X as I’m very ready for some new adventures on Mira.
Edit: One last thing, the moment I heard them say the Cent Omnia region we were journeying through connected with every other region, I immediately called Origin would be crashing right through it. The outcome I guess was patently obvious lol. Torna 2.0
Anyway I dug Future Redeemed a ton. The moment it really got me was walking up to Colony 9 for the first time not expecting it was there and hearing the field and then battle music and being like “YOOO!!!” Super sad seeing half the town just gone, but the entrance plaza and weird second floor layout being preserved was surreal to re-experience and I loved too getting so much Gaur Plains love between the Aurora Shelf and Raguel Lake.
I wanted more time with everyone, especially Shulk and Rex, but getting to go on one more adventure with both of them was great. Historically, Rex is my least favorite Xenoblade protagonist, but this DLC redeemed him a good deal.
Beyond that some of my favorite moments included finally learning what was up with Riku in an extra amusing way (Riki has the best children) and visiting Old Los Angeles or wherever they wound up. My anime squad looked so amusingly out of place there lol. Also the final boss fight was rad and infinitely better than Z and the final Ouroboros blow was incredible. I definitely would have liked to see all of the characters beyond 3’s ending, but I am glad it keeps 3’s ending intact a little longer. Maybe in another game or some other form we’ll see all of these characters again. One last thing, I loved seeing all of the Xenoblade X tie ins, I’m super curious whatever will come of that. I think my near future hope for the series is an expanded port of Xenoblade X as I’m very ready for some new adventures on Mira.
Edit: One last thing, the moment I heard them say the Cent Omnia region we were journeying through connected with every other region, I immediately called Origin would be crashing right through it. The outcome I guess was patently obvious lol. Torna 2.0
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Ryuusagi no hoshi
Piranha Plant
Are the Sword of the End and Lucky seven completely THE same thou?.
I know Luky seven it's the souls of Melia's friends Riku stated so but the way Z talks about the other sword it's weird.
And about the core, yeah it breaked but it's shown that those cores are almost pure data and can be reconstructed.
Malos is dead yeah but the core can be brought back by the other ones.
Maybe not by Pyra or Mythra because i do believe that Pneuma died but Ontos was good and well and precisely Origin does that, keep all the data about everything and build whatever it wants and.
But i think actually you're right on the implication in that specific scene if sword of the end and Lucky 7 are completely the same.
Soul Lab
Rattata
I do think he was talking about Pneuma and Logos. Sword of the End is somehow powered by Logos. Design and color of the spells just fits
Tye
All-around Nintendo enjoyer
- Pronouns
- they/them
I know, that’s a big point of my theory;
Mira is clearly in another dimension/plane of some sort, but it’s resonating with the XCX Earth universe (which I believe to be the same universe that Mira—as a past Earth—originated from, before the universe was reset, and Mira continued to exist despite the reset due to being in that pocket dimension) and for whatever reason is pulling in those who seemingly have connections to it or something. Though I guess I explained that poorly in my post, because rather than say that Mira is pulling in others to its dimension, I guess I kinda said the opposite—that Mira was pulled into XCX Earth’s universe. The former is what I actually meant to say, though.
I’m aware of that and agree, but the concept art in question is specifically for the original Ares, and that same design is used in the full game under the armor, though you don’t get a good look at it in the actual cutscene. The fact that it looks nearly identical to the Ouroboros we see in Future Redeemed, combined with the fact that the basic lore of XC3 was very likely conceived during XCX’s development as well, only further suggests some connection there rather than the opposite.
Actually, hold on a sec, I just had a realization…
If the Ares is Ouroboros in some way, then given its implied relation to the Ghosts, that must mean that the Ghosts are also connected to Ouroboros in some way… Also, the way the Ghosts are described, they seem to be very Gnosis-like, and Gnosis are essentially lost consciousnesses with nowhere to go. Interestingly, we’ve already seen Ouroboros-powered consciousnesses that very likely end up being lost souls—those being the Aionios-born people of the City. We know that those who were backed up in Origin should continue to exist after XC3, but the fate of those from the City is specifically brought to attention; the game suggests that they’ll likely cease to exist once Origin completes its process. But then what will become of those consciousnesses? Where do they go? We may just have our answer… They become the Ghosts. How exactly Elma ties into that is still a mystery, but she clearly has some connection to the Ghosts.
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Thunder84
Inkling
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's a wrap. 23 hours, got all of the important upgrades and completed all of the sidequests. Only thing left is filling out the compendium and defeating the superbosses, neither of which I feel much incentive to do. Before I dive into the story, I really gotta emphasize just how damn well Future Redeemed is designed to encourage near full completion. With how everything is tracked and catalogued, it's incredibly easy to figure out exactly what you need to get and where you need to go to get it. The expansions were all designed with full completion in mind, much more than the base games, so I'm not expecting every addition to become a series staple, but man I hope a lot of them do. I have a few minor issues, such as how key items like loose expansions aren't tracked on the map for whatever reason, but overall this is still the most cohesively designed Xenoblade experience yet in terms of structure, and that's the primary reason why I put it above Torna.
Now, when it comes to the big lore connections, I honestly don't care in the slightest. I haven't played Saga or Gears, and it's been forever since I played X, but even if I had I don't think it'd really move the needle for me on the subject. I don't particularly care whether these disparate franchises take place in the same universe or not, it just isn't something that's ever mattered to me. With that being said, the references aren't intrusive at all, and a lot of people seem to love them, so I'm ultimately still happy they're here. It's no skin off my back, and it makes so many longtime fans happy, so there really isn't anything to complain about.
For me, the actual story of the Founders plus any additional Origin lore was always the real draw, and they delivered on that pretty well, all things considered. I don't think there was anything here in terms of lore that was particularly necessary for the main story, and I definitely don't understand the notion that Future Redeemed singlehandedly redeemed (heh) the ending of XC3, but a lot of it is still quite nice to have. The only thing here that I think really should have been included in the base game is explanation of the avatars; Ontos powering Origin is obviously quite important, as are the revelations about the Sword and Fists of the End, but I don't think we really needed to know that for the main story of XC3 to work, and it fits much better in Future Redeemed where MonolithSoft can pull from XC1 in greater detail. This is the story to load up on past references, not the self-contained, character driven one.
Speaking of references, I love the direction they went here. So many fun nods to the past from Shulk, Rex, and to a lesser extent Riku, Panacea, and Linka. It's all rather sweet, and it helps Future Redeemed stand out as it's own story even more. It's a great way to divide things up and capture both audiences, and the fanservice feels better suited for a smaller, more concise story like this one. As for the main plot itself, it's a step up from Torna. I liked Torna a lot, but it was carried hard by it's final hour, with very little of note happening up until that point. Future Redeemed is much more engaging from the get-go, which is a nice improvement that I honestly wasn't really expecting.
In terms of characters though, I gotta give it to Torna. Not that Future Redeemed is bad, far from it, but there isn't quite as much going on here in my opinion.
So, yeah. Overall, I liked Future Redeemed quite a bit. Certainly not without its problems, but it makes for a great companion piece to XC3 and the franchise as a whole. Very pleased with the direction they took here.
Now, when it comes to the big lore connections, I honestly don't care in the slightest. I haven't played Saga or Gears, and it's been forever since I played X, but even if I had I don't think it'd really move the needle for me on the subject. I don't particularly care whether these disparate franchises take place in the same universe or not, it just isn't something that's ever mattered to me. With that being said, the references aren't intrusive at all, and a lot of people seem to love them, so I'm ultimately still happy they're here. It's no skin off my back, and it makes so many longtime fans happy, so there really isn't anything to complain about.
For me, the actual story of the Founders plus any additional Origin lore was always the real draw, and they delivered on that pretty well, all things considered. I don't think there was anything here in terms of lore that was particularly necessary for the main story, and I definitely don't understand the notion that Future Redeemed singlehandedly redeemed (heh) the ending of XC3, but a lot of it is still quite nice to have. The only thing here that I think really should have been included in the base game is explanation of the avatars; Ontos powering Origin is obviously quite important, as are the revelations about the Sword and Fists of the End, but I don't think we really needed to know that for the main story of XC3 to work, and it fits much better in Future Redeemed where MonolithSoft can pull from XC1 in greater detail. This is the story to load up on past references, not the self-contained, character driven one.
Speaking of references, I love the direction they went here. So many fun nods to the past from Shulk, Rex, and to a lesser extent Riku, Panacea, and Linka. It's all rather sweet, and it helps Future Redeemed stand out as it's own story even more. It's a great way to divide things up and capture both audiences, and the fanservice feels better suited for a smaller, more concise story like this one. As for the main plot itself, it's a step up from Torna. I liked Torna a lot, but it was carried hard by it's final hour, with very little of note happening up until that point. Future Redeemed is much more engaging from the get-go, which is a nice improvement that I honestly wasn't really expecting.
In terms of characters though, I gotta give it to Torna. Not that Future Redeemed is bad, far from it, but there isn't quite as much going on here in my opinion.
- I mentioned them before, but Shulk and Rex are the highlights. Both feel like natural evolutions of their respective characters, building on what we love about them without feeling like complete retreads. The dad energy is through the roof too, which is both hilarious and heartmeltingly adorable. Shulk's interactions with Nikol in particular are the sweetest.
- Matthew is another standout, despite not fitting with the fanservice direction of Future Redeemed at all. Not only is he a quote machine, but he does a great job of driving the story forward without ever getting grating or annoying. Wish we had more protagonists like him.
- A I'm a bit more mixed on, although I still like them overall. The Alvis connection is really cool, and learning that they're essentially the same Alvis we knew in XC1 was a really cool reveal. However, my main complaint (which was also my biggest complaint with the XC3 narrative in general) is lackluster character resolution. The Matthew/A pairing was built up as a big focus to start the game, but it's kinda swept under the rug by the end. Matthew even calls A out on their lies to him, even saying he can't really trust them, and A just kinda brushes him aside. They don't even really address Matthew at all when they leave to become Origin's new avatar. Really disappointing conclusion to what was an otherwise really fun dynamic, Matthew deserved better.
- The four children also feel a bit underbaked. Nikol and Panacea made it out the best, as they feel at least somewhat defined as characters, but none of the four really contribute all that much. Glimmer gets the short end of the stick from the main party; her initial character arc of wanting to remain in the cycle is pretty good, but once that's resolved she's dropped from the narrative almost entirely, to the point where I honestly forgot she was there sometimes. Linka also suffers from this a bit, although she at least has the excuse of only being a supporting character. There's limited screentime, and the Shulk/Rex/Matthew trio sucks up a ton of it, so I get why a few characters didn't get quite as much, but Torna had a much better balance in my opinion.
- Riku is great, because of course he is. Hard to wrap my head around him being Kino's son, unless MonolithSoft wants to retcon one of Riki's children as Riku.
- N is also great, pleasantly surprised with what he got. Learning that his massacre of the City and Ghondor's wasn't entirely his decision helps drive his descent into insanity, and knowing he was partly responsible for Ouroboros (and the downfall of Moebius in the long run) is pretty neat.
- Na'el is another good character, great foil to Matthew and Moebius as a whole. I don't have a ton to say other than that her motivations are sympathetic, but I do like her quite a bit overall.
So, yeah. Overall, I liked Future Redeemed quite a bit. Certainly not without its problems, but it makes for a great companion piece to XC3 and the franchise as a whole. Very pleased with the direction they took here.
Soul Lab
Rattata
The amount of love XC1 receives in FR is crazy. I‘m so happy with this DLCColony 9 and Xeno1 music
Síriocaz
Xenoblade Enjoyer
This is actually something that didn't sit right with me. You have the main game constantly deconstructing classic tracks in order to evoke a decadent feeling and in FR you have Colony 9 barely standing, still glimmering with lots of hopes but nonetheless chained to this chaotic world. With all that in mind, I would've at least hoped for an alternate version. Feels too cheap as it is.Colony 9 and Xeno1 music
That doesn't really fit with what we saw in the ending of Future Redeemed, though, where a newly merged post-Klaus trilogy earth emerges back into the broader universe.
Are you sure you're not confusing the Ares with the Vita. I don't recall there ever being any implication that the former was anything other than what it appeared to be.
Momo
Octorok
Very interesting observation, especially for the Xenoblade X fans
xenomira.wordpress.com
Observation Regarding Future Redeemed Localization
This post is going to be done in a more casual style because this is more of an observation than a real translation.
xenomira.wordpress.com
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Tye
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How do we know it merges back into the main universe rather than stay in its own pocket dimension? The ending is abstract so we can’t know for sure exactly what is being depicted (otherwise there’d be no reason to speculate about this in the first place, after all). I don’t believe what’s shown is supposed to be happening in real time either, nor do I expect whatever is falling to the planet to have literally appeared immediately after the merge. There’s no good reason why it can’t be showing the formation of what will eventually become Mira, with the falling object potentially being the White Whale, is there?
No, I’m talking about the original Ares that you see in the opening cutscene. Its design is very similar to that of the Ghosts, and when you add that together with other stuff like Elma’s Ghost Factory Art and other hints that she may be connected to the Ghosts, it seems pretty obvious that there’s some connection between the Ares and the Ghosts.
Tye
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I guess, maybe?
Unless we’re to believe that these two planets literally reappeared side by side in the same universe like that, I’m not sure we can definitely say whether it ultimately ends in the main universe or not. And even if it does, the new merged planet could potentially be pulled back into the pocket dimension later on, just as the previous two worlds were drawn to each other. In fact that may work out even better, because that way the people of the new planet can live and eventually leave the planet (except for Nopon and L’s people, for whatever reason) before it leaves the universe again.
The establishing shot of Jupiter is there to show that we're in the original universe and that The Experiment didn't actually reach significantly beyond Earth, similar to events in the older Xeno- timelines. There's a fair bit of ambiguity around the particulars, but I think it's pretty crystal clear that the cutscene is depicting a world that is no longer isolated from the broader universe.
This is why comparisons were immediately drawn to Xenosaga, as Xenosaga Episode 3 specifically ends with Earth re-emerging with KOS-MOS drifting nearby. That said, like I said before, the way events are described in the Klaus's world memory space doesn't align super well with Xenosaga, and likely is not literally meant to imply that they are implying that the Xenosaga universe and Klaus's original universe are one in the same.
The opening cutscene Ares has a bit more purple, but otherwise I wouldn't describe it as looking especially Ghost-like.
I guess, maybe?
The Xenoblade X art book suggested that Mira was a patchwork world similar to Aionios. It is unclear how canon that is, but Cauldros in particular is specifically noted as being a piece of Wroth.
Tye
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I’ll agree that that does seem to be the case upon the initial remerge, and I always was under the impression that Klaus’s experiment was localized to Earth, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the new planet can’t still be pulled back into the pocket dimension or otherwise have something weird happen to it later on that results in it becoming Mira (whether just in part or in whole).
And yeah, I don’t think the implication is that the Xenosaga universe is supposed to be the same as the Xenoblade one now. That just doesn’t work. The falling object also can’t be KOS-MOS because KOS-MOS was already in XC2 as a Blade. However, the inclusion of the Vector Industries logo on the radio, along with the references to XCX, Xenosaga, and possibly Xenogears that are mentioned in the broadcast, surely has to imply something. The Vector Industries logo is perhaps the most important thing here, as that suggests, well, a lot…
We already know that the discovery of the Conduit/Zohar is extremely similar in both Xenoblade and Xenosaga, and since Vector Industries played a part in that in Xenosaga the same is likely true in Xenoblade. It also likely implies a Wilhelm-like figure and the concept of Eternal Recurrence, which is the biggest thing to me. If Eternal Recurrence is also a thing in Xenoblade, then that can solve the whole “two Earths” problem that XCX presents.
Really? These don’t look extremely similar in design to you? (Click the images for larger view; couldn’t get the full sized images to embed properly.)
They clearly share common design elements, surely intentionally so. The Ghosts are also made from antimatter, which causes an annihilation event upon contact with matter (as we also see happen in XC3!) and that’s what causes the destruction of Earth. It would make sense, then, that the Ares managed to fight them off because it was comprised of the same stuff—whether it’s actually a Ghost itself or just somehow based on the Ghosts.
I’m aware, but like you said, it’s unclear how canon that concept art is (if it is canon, though, then that just further supports the idea that Mira is the future Aionios/merged planet, at least in part, because that art has even more references to the world of the Bionis), so for all we know Mira could look more similar to the merged planet we see at the end of FR. It could still be patchwork, too, just not as evident from afar. Or the planet we see at the end of FR hasn’t yet become what we know as Mira. If other planets are involved, too, then obviously something funky still has to happen, but either way it would appear to involve the world of the Bionis—which now exists together with Alrest as the newly merged planet—in some way.
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Overall while this game did fill in some nice background lore, it didn't really feel needed to "complete" 3's story. I loved the Klaus saga of Xenoblade and I can't wait to see where Monolith goes next.
I’ll agree that that does seem to be the case upon the initial remerge, and I always was under the impression that Klaus’s experiment was localized to Earth, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the new planet can’t still be pulled back into the pocket dimension or otherwise have something weird happen to it later on that results in it becoming Mira (whether just in part or in whole).
And yeah, I don’t think the implication is that the Xenosaga universe is supposed to be the same as the Xenoblade one now. That just doesn’t work. The falling object also can’t be KOS-MOS because KOS-MOS was already in XC2 as a Blade. However, the inclusion of the Vector Industries logo on the radio, along with the references to XCX, Xenosaga, and possibly Xenogears that are mentioned in the broadcast, surely has to imply something. The Vector Industries logo is perhaps the most important thing here, as that suggests, well, a lot…
We already know that the discovery of the Conduit/Zohar is extremely similar in both Xenoblade and Xenosaga, and since Vector Industries played a part in that in Xenosaga the same is likely true in Xenoblade. It also likely implies a Wilhelm-like figure and the concept of Eternal Recurrence, which is the biggest thing to me. If Eternal Recurrence is also a thing in Xenoblade, then that can solve the whole “two Earths” problem that XCX presents.
Really? These don’t look extremely similar in design to you? (Click the images for larger view; couldn’t get the full sized images to embed properly.)
They clearly share common design elements, surely intentionally so. The Ghosts are also made from antimatter, which causes an annihilation event upon contact with matter (as we also see happen in XC3!) and that’s what causes the destruction of Earth. It would make sense, then, that the Ares managed to fight them off because it was comprised of the same stuff—whether it’s actually a Ghost itself or just somehow based on the Ghosts.
I’m aware, but like you said, it’s unclear how canon that concept art is (if it is canon, though, then that just further supports the idea that Mira is the future Aionios/merged planet, at least in part, because that art has even more references to the world of the Bionis), so for all we know Mira could look more similar to the merged planet we see at the end of FR. It could still be patchwork, too, just not as evident from afar. Or the planet we see at the end of FR hasn’t yet become what we know as Mira. If other planets are involved, too, then obviously something funky still has to happen, but either way it would appear to involve the world of the Bionis—which now exists together with Alrest as the newly merged planet—in some way.
I actually specifically think they don't want to do anything which could require substantial use of the Vector logo (or any other unambiguously Xenosaga thing) because even just that required a "Special Thanks" credit for Bandai Namco. It's probably largely a continuation of what they started in Xenoblade 2 where they're implying that the Klaus era Xenoblade Earth generally resembles the gears/saga one except where specified otherwise. This one added some Xenoblade X elements, this time, but again, they're probably not implying that that was literally the same Earth. If anything, they might be signalling that they're picking up some of the planned plot threads for the later Xenosaga games, but probably in a way that's very legally distinct from the Xenosaga IP.
It is quite possible that the new world shown here significantly contributes to what eventually becomes Mira, or perhaps may eventually become Mira, but I feel pretty confident in the assertion that what was shown in the ending cutscene wasn't that.
Regarding Ares and the Ghosts, their early concept art looks similar, but the Ouroboros/Moebius cores are gone by the time they reached their final designs, and in particular the final Ares, including the slightly different one in the opening cutscene, just looks like a Skell without any particular connection to them. A connection was likely planned at some point, but that falls very much under questionable art book canon, doubly so because the design element didn't survive into the game. Perhaps at one point the Ares was something closer to an Ouroboros, and the Ghosts (which we have a pretty good idea were originally the antagonists, just read the lyrics to Black Tar) were something like Moebius (both seem pretty Gnosis-y), but whatever they were planning to do there seems to have been held back for Xenoblade 3.
TheQuietone
The Dread Captain
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Gah I can't find the last affinity growth unlock kit, and the last two art unlocks but I mostly care about the affinity unlock. Anyone have any ideas? I seem to have all the relic containers
rickyson33
"The Baby"
did you get the one on the cliffs around the shrine by colony 9 where the ouroboros powers quest took place? gotta do a little jumping to reach it
that was my last one and was also the one someone that couldn't find the last one was missing when they asked earlier
Thunder84
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My last one was by the Oracle Spire in Ragmos, way back in the corner. Missed it on first pass because enemies kept aggroing me and turning off the radar.
Tye
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I’m not necessarily suggesting that Vector Industries is going to play a big role and be prominently featured by name and logo again in a future Xenoblade game, but the fact that they went out of their way to be able to use the logo in Future Redeemed has to have some sort of importance to it. That’s why my main takeaway from that is that it implies that Eternal Recurrence is a thing in Xenoblade’s universe as well. And again, the whole point of my theory is that the XC Earth and the XCX Earth aren’t the same, but rather the former is a previous version of the latter from a prior universal (or Lower Domain) reset. That’s why they seem so similar yet not quite enough to be exactly the same.
…Though, the more I compare XCX’s intro and the radio scene in FR, the more I’m beginning to feel like it could be possible for them to be the same Earth after all. The Coalition government knew of the coming war, but surely they wouldn’t tell the public about it and cause mass panic, so it makes sense that they would launch Project Exodus gradually leading up to the war. They had the newer, bigger motherships planned to depart within the year, with the White Whale seemingly being the first of those set to leave in July. That could explain why the White Whale was one of the few that made it off Earth—because they were already prepared, while the others were likely rushed to depart sooner than expected the moment they got word that the war was imminent; perhaps they warring factions arrived at Earth sooner than anticipated? The Saviorite rebels stuff seems to mostly concern the Conduit, so it would’ve probably been more localized and not nearly as large-scale as the Ghost vs. Ganglion war, and it could have broken out simultaneously or right before the larger war came to Earth. There is the whole destruction of Earth thing, of course, but if Klaus’s experiment happened at the same time—maybe the war was what caused Klaus to hastily start the experiment in the first place—then that flash of light could just be the Earth being transported to the pocket dimension (and splintering off into another as well) with the debris being all the ships surrounding the Earth being destroyed. There are inconsistencies, of course, like the lack of the Beanstalk(s) and such, but that’s true of the first XC game’s scene depicting Earth as well; you could chalk it up to either being a retcon, and/or simply them choosing only to show what’s immediately relevant to the game in question and not making things too obvious for future connections to keep people guessing. That would complicate my theory regarding Mira and the Samaarians, though…so overall I prefer the Eternal Recurrence theory.
(Also, you could also say that Eternal Recurrence would make it possible for all the Xeno series to exist in the same continuity (well, not legally so, but it could be somewhat implied) if each series just takes place in a previous or future reset of the same universe, with similar-ish but different events playing out in each, though that’s mostly just a fun idea.)
No, they do still have the cores in game; they’re just not quite as obvious as in the concept art, plus the fact that you don’t really get a good closeup of either the Ghosts or the Ares for more than a split second at a time doesn’t help either, but those cores are absolutely still there (again, click the thumbnail here for the full size image since I can’t get embeds to work from this wiki):
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So was the final boss Alvis’ version of those mechs that Mythra and Malos had in 2? Can’t remember what they were called or the lore behind them
Either way, sick fucking design. It looked so cool.
Loved the finale and the implication that Logos and Pnuema had a hand in taking down Ontos
Either way, sick fucking design. It looked so cool.
Loved the finale and the implication that Logos and Pnuema had a hand in taking down Ontos
Neverx
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I don't think it was something like Siren or Aion. Seemed like a new design, was cool af tho
You could try to squeeze the Klaus trilogy and X together like that, but Klaus's dialog seems to be to pretty specifically suggest that he's concerned about humans destroying the Earth, not aliens. Don't think that's the intent.
Also I feel the need to mention that Xeno has been a multiverse even as far back as Xenosaga. There is more than one lower domain.
I guess those things on the Ghosts could be a toned down version of the cores, but the Ares definitely doesn't have them anymore.No, they do still have the cores in game; they’re just not quite as obvious as in the concept art, plus the fact that you don’t really get a good closeup of either the Ghosts or the Ares for more than a split second at a time doesn’t help either, but those cores are absolutely still there (again, click the thumbnail here for the full size image since I can’t get embeds to work from this wiki):
The design reminded me a bit more of Zanza's final boss form. The Artifices were more obviously mechanical.
Neverx
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Seems like the next step for sure, especially with all the lore drops of humans exploring the universe in Klaus's world. Definitely don't think it's going to be Xenosaga 4 like some people are convinced.
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I haven’t played the Xenosaga games so I don’t really have a horse in the race for wanting them to come back because I have no attachment
But I will say it’s genuinely surprising to me that they used specific lore stuff from that game to the point of having to credit bamco
KOS-MOS in XC2 was cool, but it was more of a smash-like thing. fanservice, non-canon guest character.
However, explicitly name dropping stuff from the lore when they could’ve just made something similar up and avoided copyright stuff is really REALLY interesting to me and makes me think there is something in the works
