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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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I think the Demise like figure from the trailer is probably Ganondorf's equivalent of ancient rabbit girl and Zonai dinosaur dude. Those last two seem like pretty clear analogues for Zelda and Link respectively and I wouldn't be surprised if they're meant to symbolize them in either a sacred realm type of area that Zelda falls into at the beginning of the game or serve as their stand ins when encountering some sort of cutscene depicting the past.

The gameplay seems interesting. I'd like to think that the game won't feature exact shrine equivalents and that this game's equivalent of spirit orbs (maybe direct heart pieces or stamina vessels) will be scattered throughout the world in various encampments/caves/random puzzles/escort missions to provide an incentive to explore everything again. It looks like the bigger and more unique vehicle parts and their batteries will probably be obtained the same way, making the rewards for side quests or combat sections a lot more meaningful than the usual bomb arrows or basic weapons you'd get in BotW. Combat seems to be getting an overhaul in the sense that being able to recruit NPCs and fusing/ultrahanding various items means that scenarios can play out in a looooooot of different ways. Someone mentioned that shifting away from the concept of shrine equivalents and divine beast type dungeons allows for the removal of loading screens which is something I like the sound of.

I think it's weird that Ganondorf/Rabbit girl seem to have Tears, as I expected something along the lines of:

  • a Gerudo Tear (Riju, Lightning Temple rising from the desert in the trailer)
  • a Zora Tear (Sidon, Water Temple, Lake Hylia?)
  • a Goron Tear (Some Important Goron [not convinced its Yunobo], Interior of Death Mountain)
  • a Sheikah Tear (Purah or Impa's Attendant, whatever falling sequence with the lasers and the cage with the guardian tentacles seems to be)
  • a Rito Tear (Tulin, those ships over the Hebra mountains)
  • a Korok Tear (Hestu, some sort of quest involving the Deku Tree)
  • a Hyrulean Tear (Zelda, Final Dungeon)

In keeping with the idea of there being various Tears of the Kingdom, presumably belonging to the various tribes ("this kingdom and her allies").

Lastly, I feel like at some point you might be able to rebuild Castle Town. I would've thought Hyrule Castle floating relatively close to its ruins would've ruled out something like that but if there's already people camping near the fountain in the trailer, the pulling people along in a wagon with your horse part of the trailer might be some sort of expansion of the Tarrytown sidequest from BoTW where instead of just delivering materials to construction workers and recruiting a few random people, you have to physically move people and things using vehicles.
 
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The best part is that the trailer dropped at 11pm at night in Japan. So when Aonuma and co. get up in few hours they will see how is everyone amazed by this GOAT. Truly a way to shine your morning.
 
Skittzo said:
Clearly you don't seem to be understanding my point. Thematic callbacks or gameplay callbacks like sky islands are very normal, they iterate through ideas like that in multiple games all the time.

Character callbacks is not something they do. Ganondorf is the one exception* because he has an established history of dying/reviving/being sealed over and over. But you don't see Midna in any other game. Each different Zelda/Link/Impa is a different person. The king of hyrule in BOTW is Rhoam, not Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule from Wind Waker.

This is a constant, throughout the entire series of games. Demise has a finite end in Skyward Sword, and his curse explicitly paves the way for a new evil to arise, which is currently Ganondorf. Nothing about bringing him back for this game would make any sense, it would run contrary not just to the established lore but to all of the typical conventions of Zelda storytelling.

*besides the "silly" jokey characters like Beedle and Tingle
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And if this game is on theme with cycles (as it very much is) then the cycle beginning/ending with demise is not very farfetched. So they're not just having a "throwback". It's literally the lore of the series
 
Ab said:
And if this game is on theme with cycles (as it very much is) then the cycle beginning/ending with demise is not very farfetched. So they're not just having a "throwback". It's literally the lore of the series
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If this game is the end of a cycle with SS, what happens next?
 
Quoted by: Ab
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Thunder84 said:
It's not concern. I never was all that concerned about the game. I'm just not hyped for it. The window for me to really get into the hype cycle has closed for me, that's all.

I'm very confident that this game is gonna be fantastic. I just can't really bring myself to care at this point. I just want it out.
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Then open the window I guess? How is it possible to just..... stop caring? Lol

Idk. It's just weird to me. Like, you have to be actively trying in order to not to be excited from seeing this.

I guess this kind of mopey negativity is just really grating to me is all.
 
Okayge said:
I watched this in the bathroom during my lab and you have no fucking idea how happy I was

This 100% will be GOTY 2023, there is zero question about it.
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I watched this in the bathroom too!

..good thing I was sitting in the right place when watching it
 
Okayge said:
I'm super excited for all these NPC & Player vs. Enemy battles. So far we saw Sidon + Riju + Tebo/Tebo's Son, and also a shot of Link + a group of people around him (bucket head dude, gerudo woman, goron dude) that maybe will also participate as a NPC group battle? Also saw Link giving some transportation to 4 NPCs. NPCs weren't really integral to gameplay in the first game, but I'm interested to see what this game holds in store for how useful NPCs will be.
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I'm guessing they're recruitable in TotK? The bandy brigade comprised Hylians and a Gerudo/Goron, which seems to be a strong hint that you can assemble a squad and go cause havoc. The battle outside of Hateno is another example.
 
Jersh said:
A more literal translation of that line from the Japanese script says something more like "Ganon refuses to give up on reincarnation".

The English is... very different from that, and shouldn't be used for theory crafting.
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This kind of blows my mind and changes everything for me. I had no idea. I even played BotW in Japanese for my first playthrough.
 
CocaFormula said:
Not sure why you are so hung up on it definitely being Ganondorf, but the resemblance with Demise is there and is undeniable.

kAmNXF1.png


0wR2IoK.png


uyjhqE1.jpg
It's not only about the hair, also the body structure and especially the scale-like skin (check the left forearm) is exactly the one we saw in SS and not something that was previously used in any Ganondorf representation AFAIR

Not saying it is Demise, it could very well be as you say a final form of some kind, but would I really be so similar to Demise if there wasn't an intentional throwback?
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Also if it's definitely Ganondorf then why the fuck does the camera cut away just as he turns around?
 
catonkatonk said:
So after the ouroboros symbology, the fusing of abilities & the possible merging of worlds,
We can now add "recruiting heroes from around the world to fight alongside you"
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Let's hope it also doesn't have the incredibly disappointing story and premise
 
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saodaje said:
I think the Demise like figure from the trailer is probably Ganondorf's equivalent of ancient rabbit girl and Zonai dinosaur dude. Those last two seem like pretty clear analogues for Zelda and Link respectively and I wouldn't be surprised if they're meant to symbolize them in either a sacred realm type of area that Zelda falls into at the beginning of the game or serve as their stand ins when encountering some sort of cutscene depicting the past.
Click to expand...
This might be bordering on artbook spoiler territory so I'll put the reasoning in spoilers, but suffice it to say I don't think rabbit girl and Zonai dude are supposed to be analogs of Link and Zelda.

Zonai dude is named Rauru, which is the name of the Sage of Light from OoT AKA Kaepora Gaebora, the annoying owl from OoT. I don't think he's meant to be that same character, but him sharing that name as well as having what looks to be an Owl design adorning his outfit makes me think he will/did fulfill a role as a sage. He is the owner of the green hand we see sealing Ganondorf, so he basically sacrificed himself to seal Ganondorf for centuries/millenia until he was reawoken by Link and Zelda.

So Rauru being a sage figure doesn't really translate to him being analogous to the Hero/Courage. In fact, the Zonai iconography used to represent Courage is the Dragon, while the Owl (which Rauru seems to wear) represents Wisdom.

Rabbit girl AKA Baskets is a lot harder to pin down. But I don't think she's meant to be analogous to Zelda. My pet theory is that she and Rauru are/were the respective leaders of the Hylians and the Zonai way back when, and they formed an alliance to stop Ganon/dorf, though somehow the latter civilization mysteriously vanished afterwards. A big theme with this game seems to be Fusion, i.e. using the Fuse rune, the fusion of Skyrule with Hyrule, two warring tribes coming together to fight a greater evil (Hylian/Zonai), etc... I think their backstory will revolve around that, not around them being predecessors to the hero and the princess.
 
Skittzo said:
Because he hadn't yet been revealed in the trailer at that point?
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He was revealed years ago in the first trailer for the game?

I'm not saying Ganondorf isn't in this, because he obviously is, I'm saying that there is some weird temporal stuff going on, which could lead to Demise featuring also. See also the weird stuff going on with Zelda.
 
Chaos Theory said:
Also if it's definitely Ganondorf then why the fuck does the camera cut away just as he turns around?
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The BotW 2017 trailer was also pretty coy about showing Zelda until it wasn't. It's just build up.

If they don't want to give away Demise, why show him at all?
 
bellydrum said:
Then open the window I guess? How is it possible to just..... stop caring? Lol

Idk. It's just weird to me. Like, you have to be actively trying in order to not to be excited from seeing this.

I guess this kind of mopey negativity is just really grating to me is all.
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I don't really know what you want me to say here. I want to be excited for this game. I wanna be hyped for it. But I'm just not. I can't just magically change that. I'm happy that you are, as well as so many others. But I'm just...not. And at this point, I don't think anything they show will change that. Doesn't mean I think the game looks bad, far from it. I'm just fatigued of the marketing, for lack of a better word.

This kind of toxic positivity is just as grating, in my opinion. You can't force people to be hyped over a trailer, and implying that people are intentionally being contrarian is rather demeaning.
 
Chaos Theory said:
He was revealed years ago in the first trailer for the game?

I'm not saying Ganondorf isn't in this, because he obviously is, I'm saying that there is some weird temporal stuff going on, which could lead to Demise featuring also. See also the weird stuff going on with Zelda.
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Not in rehydrated form. I'm saying they wanted to build up to his design reveal. It's a pretty common type of dramatic reveal in trailers.
 
I think that might be demise in a flashback/spiritual thing way. I doubt he's back as an active character, but the story might make call backs to his story and spirit, so his figure is depicted in the game.
 
Leo said:
I think that might be demise in a flashback/spiritual thing way. I doubt he's back as an active character, but the story might make call backs to his story and spirit, so his figure is depicted in the game.
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It's not, though.

I don't get this. It's literally the exact same design as the Ganondorf we saw them tweet out. He has a flowing toga-style shirt with his right arm free and his left arm in a long sleeve. He's got a flowing skirt behind his legs, just like in that scene. He even has the EXACT same bracelet on his right forearm. The only difference is that he's let his hair down. And malice energy is flowing all around him.

This is the same character, there is really no question:

FtmaMdfaEAcMcRi

kAmNXF1.png
 
Skittzo said:
It's not, though.

I don't get this. It's literally the exact same design as the Ganondorf we saw them tweet out. He has a flowing toga-style shirt with his right arm free and his left arm in a long sleeve. He's got a flowing skirt behind his legs, just like in that scene. He even has the EXACT same bracelet on his right forearm. The only difference is that he's let his hair down. And malice energy is flowing all around him.

This is the same character, there is really no question:

FtmaMdfaEAcMcRi

kAmNXF1.png
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Yeah.

The only way Demise is related to this is if Demise himself posseses Ganondorf, which is not somewhere I expect them to go (and... pretty pointless due to what Ganondorf is anyway). This figure is literally wearing Ganondorf's clothes.

It's Ganondorf.
 
Chaos Theory said:
Ok guys, nvm, art book people are here clearly trying to spoil shit for people
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????

If you're referring to me what I posted was an official tweet put out today, not something from the art book. Ganondorf did not appear once in the art book.

This is the official design of Ganondorf found on their website.
 
I think goat guy is the "big" deity in september 2022 trailer while the other new girl is the other person in the same trailer in the mural

They both have three tears under the eye while Zelda has only one
 
Jersh said:
Do you know Japanese? IIRC you just get the official subs anyway, so the translation you see in game is the same either way.
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Oh, yeah, not sure why I thought they'd be different. I do not know Japanese
 
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Chaos Theory said:
Ok guys, nvm, art book people are here clearly trying to spoil shit for people
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What are you talking about? Nobody's spoiling anything for anybody, and there is no monolithic "art book people" that are acting of the same accord. Chill. Stop trying to create drama.
 
Soralink91 said:
Does link have an anti gravity power to make those jumps or are those platform specific? Also we are definitely going to be able to make rocket arrows.
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I was wondering that too, or maybe something else where some islands which are higher up have less gravity, but I'm betting it's just specific to those platforms.
 
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Soralink91 said:
Does link have an anti gravity power to make those jumps or are those platform specific? Also we are definitely going to be able to make rocket arrows.
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I think the whole area got a smaller gravity there. I noticed we got several shots with blue particles in it, they are probably the cause of it.
 
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futurehawk said:
Anyway there is some shit going on with time travel or something

Sometimes we have island sometimes not, in the final Zelda scene there is only one island
Click to expand...

Who knows. Maybe only Zonai can see the sky islands and we're able to since we have that Zonai arm fused with us (like we're 15% Zonai and that's good enough to see the sky islands lol).
 
I don't know if this was discussed but after seeing this tweet:



I wonder if the megatama/tears can indeed channel another being... That would mean that the current champions can possibly channel the old champions and this same way Zelda becomes Hylia, and Ganondorf becomes Demise, what would Link be able to channel?
 
Yavga said:
I don't know if this was discussed but after seeing this tweet:



I wonder if the megatama/tears can indeed channel another being... That would mean that the current champions can possibly channel the old champions and this same way Zelda becomes Hylia, and Ganondorf becomes Demise, maybe Link can change as well?
Click to expand...

This would add up with the Italian VA apparently voicing Daruk’s 10000 year old ancestor
 
LukasManak22 said:
Hateno Village, otherwise known as Mushroom Kingdom

image.png
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A little part of me is hoping that those mushrooms are homes for the minish. Nintendo has already added everything we'd ever want, so is it really whining to demand they include the best characters in the series in this game too?

And if this is whining, is it really so bad?

And if it is that bad, then I don't want to be good and Ganondorf can destroy Hyrule for all I care.

Please just have the Minish. I'll save Hyrule regardless, but the unused artwork from BOTW has never left my mind.
 
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bellydrum said:
What are you talking about? Nobody's spoiling anything for anybody, and there is no monolithic "art book people" that are acting of the same accord. Chill. Stop trying to create drama.
Click to expand...

So let's break this down.

1. People watch the trailer
2. People see a shot of a character who looks completely different to the more conventional Ganondorf later in the trailer (broader, longer hair), and whom the camera cuts away from as their face is about to be revealed.
3. Quite a large number of people think it could also be Demise, as evidenced by tweets posted while I was writing this post.
4. Poster goes around thread saying that it definitely isn't Demise
5. Yet there isn't enough evidence to the contrary as the game isn't released yet and this trailer is all we have to go on...
6. Well, as it happens, there has also been a recent, well-publicized art-book leak
7. Poster literally replies to an argument with

"This might be bordering on artbook spoiler territory "

Now, all things considered together, how is it actually mechanically possible that you are angry that someone may have interpreted that said poster has some ITK information from the art book?
 
Skittzo said:
This might be bordering on artbook spoiler territory so I'll put the reasoning in spoilers, but suffice it to say I don't think rabbit girl and Zonai dude are supposed to be analogs of Link and Zelda.

Zonai dude is named Rauru, which is the name of the Sage of Light from OoT AKA Kaepora Gaebora, the annoying owl from OoT. I don't think he's meant to be that same character, but him sharing that name as well as having what looks to be an Owl design adorning his outfit makes me think he will/did fulfill a role as a sage. He is the owner of the green hand we see sealing Ganondorf, so he basically sacrificed himself to seal Ganondorf for centuries/millenia until he was reawoken by Link and Zelda.

So Rauru being a sage figure doesn't really translate to him being analogous to the Hero/Courage. In fact, the Zonai iconography used to represent Courage is the Dragon, while the Owl (which Rauru seems to wear) represents Wisdom.

Rabbit girl AKA Baskets is a lot harder to pin down. But I don't think she's meant to be analogous to Zelda. My pet theory is that she and Rauru are/were the respective leaders of the Hylians and the Zonai way back when, and they formed an alliance to stop Ganon/dorf, though somehow the latter civilization mysteriously vanished afterwards. A big theme with this game seems to be Fusion, i.e. using the Fuse rune, the fusion of Skyrule with Hyrule, two warring tribes coming together to fight a greater evil (Hylian/Zonai), etc... I think their backstory will revolve around that, not around them being predecessors to the hero and the princess.
Click to expand...
I do admit that it's a bit weird that Zonai dude has owl (and therefore Wisdom) characteristics that don't line up to the courage part of the Triforce that Link embodies. I didn't know that the Zonai had owl and boar artwork in their ruins and only assumed they had dragons so thank you for that correction. I'm still inclined to associate him largely with Link though due to the importance of the green hand that's central to Link in this game and because of the close associations Rauru has had with Link's character in OoT like you mentioned. The Zonai in general are supposed to be savage/warlike, tying into the sort of ruffian/barbarian aesthetic Link's non champion outfit for promotional materials has had, and I believe the artbook shows two more animal like glyphs on his robes which might be there to represent the other sections of the Triforce, which have been obtained by Link in his entirety in past titles. His hairstyle resembles the hero present on the tapestries fighting Calamity Ganon in BotW as well.
 
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Some more evidence that this is quite obviously still Ganondorf:

image.png


3:00-3:02 in the trailer shows Ganondorf (yes, Ganondorf, we see his face in the next cut) setting out his arms on a platform with these pillars in front of it.

Literally the exact same place as in this screenshot:

kAmNXF1.png


The pillars are identical. This is the same place, and the same scene. And the same character.
 
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