DittoM
Bob-omb
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I mean the game was in development for a whopping 6 years. They had to be doing something major with that time.
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Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom - Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread (Tag Story Spoilers)
- Thread starter Meelow
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Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
I just want to see this game being played for 5 minutes. I want to see the UI, traversal, some exploration.
LonkFromPA
Koopa
That ceiling reminds me of this area where you hop on a minecart after finishing the lanayru mining facilityIm really curious about the music that will play in these, possibly shrine, like areas:
They look like they're underwater (even tho I don't think they are,) I kinda hope it's super serene and has like a underwater like echo to it. I really liked the Shrine music in BOTW, but the techno like nature of it wouldn't fit here.
Also it reminds me of Wet Dry world and Mario 64, so because of that now all I can hear is Dire Dire docks when looking at these images.
Mango
Eltit Motsuc
- Pronouns
- She, Her
That's possible, but I'm not sure I buy that either...I'm beyond stumped to be honest. It only makes sense that they existed after the Era of Myth, but before the Sheikah.
They really didn't do that in BOTW tho. If anything it's the game that cares the most about trying to fit things together, while also being stubbornly vague about it. ToTK seems to build off this especially with Ganondorf.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Before the game starts I don’t think they planned for Covid to make big delays (the game wasn’t initially planned to release in 2023). Of course it’s possible from the get go the plan was to have 11 dungeons, but I have my doubts. I would love the 11 dungeons speculation to be true.
HockeyBird
Villager
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- He/Him
I'm not looking for 100% cohesive lore that is neatly planned like in say Tolkien's world. I touched upon this a few days ago in the other thread but I like I'm not looking for everything to be thoroughly explained and interconnected. History, myths, and legends are often often not cohesive. Can you you 100% certainty describe Greek civilization from their beginnings? Can you explain when their religious pantheon was formed, who were the first gods, build a timeline of their mythical stories? You can't but these things change over hundreds, thousands of years. You can only get a general idea.
To me, each Zelda story is like digging up an ancient story. It tells one moment of time. You can infer what happens in between but leaving them as mysteries brings intrigue and discussion. It helps make the world of the Zelda series seem grand. It's mythology, religions, and tales much larger than we have ever hope to know.
From a gaming perspective, it allows Nintendo to add in new elements, races, characters, etc. without needing to adhere to a strict canonical bible. That's what makes the release of a new Zelda exciting. There isn't a limit to the developer's imagination.
To me, each Zelda story is like digging up an ancient story. It tells one moment of time. You can infer what happens in between but leaving them as mysteries brings intrigue and discussion. It helps make the world of the Zelda series seem grand. It's mythology, religions, and tales much larger than we have ever hope to know.
From a gaming perspective, it allows Nintendo to add in new elements, races, characters, etc. without needing to adhere to a strict canonical bible. That's what makes the release of a new Zelda exciting. There isn't a limit to the developer's imagination.
Yeah, I’m betting they intended for this game to come out Nov 2021 back when they revealed it at E3 2019. The pandemic probably delayed this to 2022, and then one more delay (the “traditional” 3D Zelda delay) to H1 2023.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Flying Frogs drop eyes like Keese (maybe they're like the Moblin to the Keese Bokoblin?). Though technically any monster part can be used as an attachmentApart from the flying frog looking enemies and maybe gleeok, there’s this wing from the art book that doesn’t belong to anything we know. Maybe it could be from a different tier of flying frog but it looks too different imo.
Though still the wing looks different enough that it's probably something else
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Yeah that's what I believe, at least before the Sheikah became advanced. When reviewing the history of the tapestry it seems the 10K year ago event was the First Calamity (so the first 'puppet Ganon' leaking from G'Dorf's malice?). So if the Sheikah were already advanced by that point, then the event between Zonai and Ganondorf was probably even longer ago, before the Sheikah had become tech proficient. At least judging from the stone carvings.
Though it seems the Zonai also had their own assortment of powerful magic and tech, which seemed to not have been enough to eliminate G'Dorf - he ended up needing to be sealed by the spectral hand.
While I expect the game to have a lot of content, I'm not sure how much I want to base those expectations on a long dev cycle, especially considering COVID. They definitely had a headstart with the engine and map but I can imagine them trying to incorporate some new mechanic, realizing it broke existing code, and needing to rewrite some of the original game engine for coexistence. The QA for this... woof.
ZeldaPY
Bob-omb
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- He/Him
It looks more squid like to me, maybe a new underwater creature.Apart from the flying frog looking enemies and maybe gleeok, there’s this wing from the art book that doesn’t belong to anything we know. Maybe it could be from a different tier of flying frog but it looks too different imo.
Mango
Eltit Motsuc
- Pronouns
- She, Her
@HockeyBird
I don't think anyone was saying they want the lore to be 100% in-depth and explain everything. I least I wasn't, as all I was saying was that from the lore we have from both the traditional timeline (which despite what people claim, was pieced together over the course of the history of the series, and not thrown together in 2011,) and BOTW itself, the concepts being presented in the art book isn't matching up with the history of Hyrule. Not just from a grand whole timeline perspective, but from even just the perspective of BOTW itself. Like regardless of how people feel about the timeline it still exists, the games still connect, and even tho how it connects, BOTW and thus ToTK are still heavily rooted in that timeline.
I don't think anyone was saying they want the lore to be 100% in-depth and explain everything. I least I wasn't, as all I was saying was that from the lore we have from both the traditional timeline (which despite what people claim, was pieced together over the course of the history of the series, and not thrown together in 2011,) and BOTW itself, the concepts being presented in the art book isn't matching up with the history of Hyrule. Not just from a grand whole timeline perspective, but from even just the perspective of BOTW itself. Like regardless of how people feel about the timeline it still exists, the games still connect, and even tho how it connects, BOTW and thus ToTK are still heavily rooted in that timeline.
Still kinda feels like that doesn't even fit tho. The map in the art book makes it seem like they conquered the whole of Hyrule at some point, which makes me want to believe they are the ancient Hylians, but the totally tonally different cultures and the issues that arise from the Animal based views of the Triforce alongside no Hylia in their culture, from what we can see, makes that a hard pill to swallow. It's easiest in my eyes to believe that they've just spent the entirety of their time as a culture living in the sky/possibly underground, even tho I doubt that do to how widespread their culture seems to be.
It's possible that we won't meet any actual living Zonai in game. The latest trailer did have weird ghostly flames, so we may only meet them as spirits.
HockeyBird
Villager
- Pronouns
- He/Him
From what I've seen of the art book, I don't necessarily see anything that conflicts with the events and history laid out in Breath of the Wild. It's important to remember the description of the Zonai in BOTW are inferences based on archeological data. Those researchers' conclusions can just be wrong as they often are in the real world. You're also dealing with thousands of years of history. Things will naturally be lost and forgotten. The Triforce has little relevance by the time of BOTW so it can be assumed that that part of their religion changed or was lost over time.
The Zonai could just be ancient Hylians who are direct ancestors to the present ones but they were just so culturally different thousands of years ago that they aren't recognized as such. They could also been an entirely different group of people who were only in Hyrule for a relatively short amount of time. If the Zonai are really prominent in TOTK, I'm sure the game will flesh out the details about who they are and what their role was in the past.
The Zonai could just be ancient Hylians who are direct ancestors to the present ones but they were just so culturally different thousands of years ago that they aren't recognized as such. They could also been an entirely different group of people who were only in Hyrule for a relatively short amount of time. If the Zonai are really prominent in TOTK, I'm sure the game will flesh out the details about who they are and what their role was in the past.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
There is this relatively well-kept library that seems to be in active use.
Though without context, could be concepts of a 'pre-ruined' library.
There's also Zonai character models with similar Mesoamerican headdress and toga. But could be concept art for flashback characters.
I would like to believe the Zonai have just been living concurrently with the rest of Hyrule after 'disappearing' milennia ago, and we can fully interact with the sky tribes and enter their cities. It's not mutually exclusive with them also having ancient deserted ruins or shrines. It would also make sense if Link woke up in the islands after his incident, he meets a group of them and they give him their clothing.
Common Knowledge
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He, Him
The Link’s Awakening-style Link makes me wonder if they’ll be amiibo rewards of other Link models. Like N64 Link in a similar way they brought SM64 Mario into Odyssey as one of the costumes. That would be fun lol.
brainchild
Moblin
Im really curious about the music that will play in these, possibly shrine, like areas:
They look like they're underwater (even tho I don't think they are,) I kinda hope it's super serene and has like a underwater like echo to it. I really liked the Shrine music in BOTW, but the techno like nature of it wouldn't fit here.
Also it reminds me of Wet Dry world and Mario 64, so because of that now all I can hear is Dire Dire docks when looking at these images.
I know people keep debating about whether this is underwater, but look in the upper right of the second image, those are definitely bubbles!
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- He/Him
Theory time (I'm probably not the first to come up with this but whatever):
There is time travel.
But not the full overworld in the past - Link can somehow travel to the past somewhere in one of those glyph zones (maybe you need to find some trigger underground?) and he travels into just one separate zone in the past which serves as a dungeon. Once you beat that "dungeon" or whatever a bunch of new sky islands appear in the present, which you can then explore to do stuff you need to do in the present (i.e. fix the master sword and kill Ganon). But you can't just go exploring in the past anywhere after that, you're still limited to that one zone in the past.
Essentially making the game structure similar to Dragon Quest 7.
There is time travel.
But not the full overworld in the past - Link can somehow travel to the past somewhere in one of those glyph zones (maybe you need to find some trigger underground?) and he travels into just one separate zone in the past which serves as a dungeon. Once you beat that "dungeon" or whatever a bunch of new sky islands appear in the present, which you can then explore to do stuff you need to do in the present (i.e. fix the master sword and kill Ganon). But you can't just go exploring in the past anywhere after that, you're still limited to that one zone in the past.
Essentially making the game structure similar to Dragon Quest 7.
Mango
Eltit Motsuc
- Pronouns
- She, Her
I mean it does look basically new, but given the lack of context it could just be a super well kept ruin. I do hope we meet the Zonai/Sky people tho, preferably not in just spirit form.There is this relatively well-kept library that seems to be in active use.
Though without context, could be concepts of a 'pre-ruined' library.
There's also Zonai character models with similar Mesoamerican headdress and toga. But could be concept art for flashback characters.
I would like to believe the Zonai have just been living concurrently with the rest of Hyrule after 'disappearing' milennia ago, and we can fully interact with the sky tribes and enter their cities. It's not mutually exclusive with them also having ancient deserted ruins or shrines. It would also make sense if Link woke up in the islands after his incident, he meets a group of them and they give him their clothing.
It is "water" but it could still be a spiritual sorta water. It's hard to know without actually seeing the context behind these ruins, or even what they represent in the grander story.
Hairway to Steven
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It looks like one of the flying stingray things that inhabited Jabu Jabu's belly
Tatsu
Moblin
- Pronouns
- Unsure
This is actually what i want. Sure an extra overworld would be nice but having a more personal experince with time travel would add the thing BOTW was missing
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- He/Him
Continuing this-
It would be like this game's version of the memories, but instead they were playable.
It also can be a nice nod to the title "tears of the kingdom" if all of those past sections correspond to a particularly sad event in the history of Hyrule.
It could also explain why we have minish stuff, and what look like several different races and tribes. And explain how we're able to meet some of those characters.
HockeyBird
Villager
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- He/Him
If there is time travel, I'm hoping for a full second overworld. Having contained time travel dungeons would feel mostly the same as just going into a dungeon in present time. The benefit of time travel is that you can visit the same areas in the past and present and see how they changed.
Two entire over worlds plus the sky islands plus the underworld seems a bit much to ask of the devs imo, but I guess you never know.
HockeyBird
Villager
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- He/Him
Hey, we can all dream big. I'm just hoping that if there is time travel, it's integrated in with the design of the rest of the open world game design. I think it would be pretty disappointing to just have these smaller, closed off areas where technically you traveled back in time but it's not connected with the rest of the game world. Plus, we already had similar elements like this in other Zelda games like Skyward Sword where you would need to switch between time periods for two of the dungeons. Mechanically those were fun but you didn't really get to explore the past thoroughly in those segments.
SMALLVILLE BOY
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He
I think its too early to start talking about the timeline, we will get answers when the game comes out, Im very exited to learn more from the archaelogists group that are studying the Zonai tribe.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I skimmed Creating a Champion again. It feels like there's more variety in the types of environments in this artbook than in CaC. The most notable interior concept art from that book are of Hyrule Castle and the Forgotten Temple, and the best looking exterior shots are of Lanayru Promenade and Zora's Domain. I do think the artistic renditions in that book translate well to the final game.
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sanstea
Like Like
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Notice the heels with the swirl? That same swirl is present in almost all ancient (and also Zonai) imagery:
There are many, many more examples all across the book. They are potentially ancient Gerudo, which I thought of the first time I saw them because of the face paint.
sanstea
Like Like
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- He/Him
I think it has been pointed out before that the first three images essentially share the same imagery with the third eye on the forehead, long hair, etc.
The wingsuit shares much of the same imagery as well, especially if we compare it to Raul and the girl - third eye, lots of thin hanging crystals everywhere (same green ones as Raul), another eye symbol in the stomach area.
So it's clearly ancient, but curiously the mask is formed for faces from the Rito tribe. It's almost like in the times of the Zonai, all tribes wore similar imagery (or high tier figures in the tribe).
Also, the wingsuit essentially has the same blue/white/red theming as this interior art work:
There is another picture of this place in the book. Probably where we will get the suit from.
HockeyBird
Villager
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- He/Him
I think Page 8 is my favorite of the whole book. Can't wait to explore those islands. I want this to be a Temple-like stage in the next Smash Bros game.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Related to the Gerudo, there was art of underground chambers with camel and sand seal imagery combined with Zonai writing and Lotus lights.
"This Kingdom and her allies" - perhaps these varied interiors we're seeing are the result of Zonai+Tribal alliances building temples and structures together.
The one above with the large propeller and wooden styling is the wind (Rito) temple, the underground red tinted and camel emblazoned one is the desert (Gerudo) temple, that one blue platform with water and pillars shaped liked whale and shark fins is the water (Zora) temple [entrance]. I also saw another large interior entrance that had the new Death Mountain ore we saw in the trailer.
"This Kingdom and her allies" - perhaps these varied interiors we're seeing are the result of Zonai+Tribal alliances building temples and structures together.
The one above with the large propeller and wooden styling is the wind (Rito) temple, the underground red tinted and camel emblazoned one is the desert (Gerudo) temple, that one blue platform with water and pillars shaped liked whale and shark fins is the water (Zora) temple [entrance]. I also saw another large interior entrance that had the new Death Mountain ore we saw in the trailer.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Or it’ll be a platform which takes us around from sky islands to Hyrule to underground
Pavolink
Bob-omb
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- He/Him
I also find that Hyrule Castle depiction in the middle something different. Reminds me more of a pyramid.
sanstea
Like Like
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- He/Him
Yeah, lots of people including myself already guessed that's the map of ancient Hyrule when the Zonai were potentially still alive.
What's especially weird is the framed other map laid over it, though.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think my biggest potential exciting thing is that BotW, while breaking conventions gameplay and design wise, was a very traditional Zelda story. Stop Ganon by visiting the Goron, Zora, Rito and Gerudo.
TOTK looks to be adding new shit and fleshing out backstory - and can end up recontextualizing that entire typical Zelda story and turning it on it’s head depending on how the Zonai and their history are handled.
I’m not sure if the way I worded that makes sense but wondering if anyone else is kinda thinking the same.
TOTK looks to be adding new shit and fleshing out backstory - and can end up recontextualizing that entire typical Zelda story and turning it on it’s head depending on how the Zonai and their history are handled.
I’m not sure if the way I worded that makes sense but wondering if anyone else is kinda thinking the same.
ZeldaPY
Bob-omb
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- He/Him
I wasn‘t keen on the idea of time travel at first, but after seeing the changed map with geoglyphs on it in art book, I am pretty sure we are getting two over worlds. It’s actually pretty genius if you think about it. Everyone is wondering how are they going to or if they are going to expand the world horizontally. And instead you make the oceans rise, flood the whole exterior of Hyrule, hence the need for a ship, then use all that space for under, underwater cities, shrines etc. shrink the land mass to create new areas.
It still doesn’t confirm two maps, but it seems like a likely scenario at this point, I mean we could just play the whole game in the past, but they already have BotW‘s map. If most of the ground structure remains mostly the same as well as extras like trees etc between maps, adding in water and taking it way doesn’t seem all that unrealistic to me.
ZeldaPY
Bob-omb
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- He/Him
This is what I tried to explain in a previous post awhile back, this time I will use a picture because I probably didn't explain my theory very clearly. It's why I have been convinced that we will be playing on two separate maps, and its how we possibly switch between the two.
We enter the map room, and the current map of Hyrule is displayed on the floor in the frame, which is the picture on left. Look at the current water level, there is no water where I displayed the blue lines. Now look at the right side, The grey lines represent what used to be stone now covered in water. We are looking at the map from two different angles, the bottom of the map on the left (current Hyrule) and the top of the map on the right (past Hyrule). The faucet in the picture on the right side is the clue.
So after we enter the map room in current Hyrule, we turn on the faucet, it floods the map and we leave the map room in the past and vice versa.
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SMALLVILLE BOY
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He
Maybe that new map with the mayan pyramid in the center is the underground map, the same size of hyrule map.
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Makes sense…. I actually like that thought.
They can even create side quests with NPCs. It would be really cool.
RagnarokX
Piranha Plant
I'd say the artist just didn't feel like drawing the map from that angle so they just imported the map from BotW. They messed up and instead of rotating the map they flipped it so everything is mirrored. Gerudo Desert is in the east instead of the west.This is what I tried to explain in a previous post awhile back, this time I will use a picture because I probably didn't explain my theory very clearly. It's why I have been convinced that we will be playing on two separate maps, and its how we possibly switch between the two.
We enter the map room, and the current map of Hyrule is displayed on the floor in the frame, which is the picture on left. Look at the current water level, there is no water where I displayed the blue lines. Now look at the right side, The grey lines represent what used to be stone now covered in water. We are looking at the map from two different angles, the bottom of the map on the left (current Hyrule) and the top of the map on the right (past Hyrule). The faucet in the picture on the right side is the clue.
So after we enter the map room in current Hyrule, we turn of the faucet, it floods the map and we leave the map room in the past and vice versa.
vtrubin
Rattata
Sorry if it has already been mentioned (or obvious to everyone, for that matter), but doesn't it look exactly like a Mesoamerican-looking Dark Palace from ALTTP?
ZeldaPY
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We haven't seen any of the coastline as its always been shrouded in mist, too far away to see, behind mountains or a different camera angle always facing away from the coastline if my memory serves me correctly.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So part of the reason I think it might work better as discrete sections is that you'll be traveling to different time periods. The main reason this theory came to me is because we are seeing so many diverse and distinct elements in this book and I'm having a hard time understanding how they can all coexist in the same world simultaneously.
And so maybe the answer is, they can't. Maybe you'll be visiting different eras of Hyrule and experiencing/rectifying tragedies that happened in the past in order to change something in the present. It would explain how you're able to meet seemingly two ancient lost tribes, shrink like in minish cap, yet still explore in a world taking place after BOTW.
It could explain why sometimes your weapon is disintegrated, as if there's just too much malice in the air, so you need to use monster parts on your weapons (in the present), yet sometimes you're using normal weapons like a stone axe. It could explain the "primal link" toga outfit, he gets it in an ancient era in the past.
Overall it would allow you to have a much better variety of locales, enemies, NPCs and story if you're going to multiple discrete eras in the past in single zones, and it would provide "traditional" Zelda gameplay in sections for those who enjoy that too.
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