Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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I feel exceptionally confident that this has nothing to do with new hardware.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
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As I have put above, there is talk specifically about the functions of the console, and if something is written and censored, it is because it is something unconfirmed (as it happens with companies that are named, but censored, that are in the process of creating gaming services in the cloud) or business percentages.
You may think that it means nothing (and you are free to do it), but the fact is that there is an unconfirmed censored platform there with future NSO support in form to online saves, online-play paid, etc.
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no one's stopping you, but I don't think the rhetoric of the section matches your conclusion
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Plus would Nintendo even mention new hardware in something like this if it wasn't even available yet?
Saying "available on Nintendo Switch and Switch The Second" when Switch The Second isn't even out is not only one hell of a slip of the tongue but would also be inaccurate because, no, NSO is not on Switch The Second as Switch the Second is not out yet.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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what's your conclusion?
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Small rant. Without naming it, my wife is playing and absolutely enamored with a certain game and its world, and it’s in no small part due to the presentation. There so many things in this world that will absolutely pale in their appeal on the Switch version. Why can’t great modern presentation be coveted? It’s paying dividends here.
Listening to Kit and Krysta’s recent podcast irked me, as it attempted to promote the narrative that more power doesn’t equal better games. It’s a Nintendo defense that’s been used since they left the hardware race, and it’s no less true now than it was when the Wii released. They weaken their own argument as they continue, both expressing a wish for games to look as good as PS5, but then stating that they can’t expect that as much from Nintendo.
Gameplay is in fact king, but I wish fans wouldn’t peddle the false narrative that power hasn’t enabled developers to create more enjoyable experiences. From the humble aspiration of ensuring that the details in your world are clean and unambiguous (resolution, texture quality), to the ambitious desire to create a photo realistic or visually dense setting for your game, and having all of the above at scale, the value is absolutely there. At some point in the future, manpower will probably be the limiting factor to reach new ambitions more than hardware, but Switch is just another arbitrary stopping point on that journey.
I find Metroid Prime’s release discourse ironic. It’s being lauded for its visuals, when such visuals (or better) would absolutely have a similar impact if they could be realized on other Nintendo titles that are less confined in their scale. Metroid Prime Remastered and Luigi’s Mansion 3 are like a small window into Nintendo’s future, as the smaller environments mean the team can focus on visuals and presentation, and they’re praised to no end because of what the teams accomplished.
Just being weird and getting this out of my system. Switch is my favorite hardware of all time, but I’d rather not be asked to “relish the generation” in year 7 when I can clearly tell when performance / hardware is an impediment to some of that enjoyment.
Listening to Kit and Krysta’s recent podcast irked me, as it attempted to promote the narrative that more power doesn’t equal better games. It’s a Nintendo defense that’s been used since they left the hardware race, and it’s no less true now than it was when the Wii released. They weaken their own argument as they continue, both expressing a wish for games to look as good as PS5, but then stating that they can’t expect that as much from Nintendo.
Gameplay is in fact king, but I wish fans wouldn’t peddle the false narrative that power hasn’t enabled developers to create more enjoyable experiences. From the humble aspiration of ensuring that the details in your world are clean and unambiguous (resolution, texture quality), to the ambitious desire to create a photo realistic or visually dense setting for your game, and having all of the above at scale, the value is absolutely there. At some point in the future, manpower will probably be the limiting factor to reach new ambitions more than hardware, but Switch is just another arbitrary stopping point on that journey.
I find Metroid Prime’s release discourse ironic. It’s being lauded for its visuals, when such visuals (or better) would absolutely have a similar impact if they could be realized on other Nintendo titles that are less confined in their scale. Metroid Prime Remastered and Luigi’s Mansion 3 are like a small window into Nintendo’s future, as the smaller environments mean the team can focus on visuals and presentation, and they’re praised to no end because of what the teams accomplished.
Just being weird and getting this out of my system. Switch is my favorite hardware of all time, but I’d rather not be asked to “relish the generation” in year 7 when I can clearly tell when performance / hardware is an impediment to some of that enjoyment.
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The mention is not from Nintendo, it's from Microsoft.Plus would Nintendo even mention new hardware in something like this if it wasn't even available yet?
Saying "available on Nintendo Switch and Switch The Second" when Switch The Second isn't even out is not only one hell of a slip of the tongue but would also be inaccurate because, no, NSO is not on Switch The Second as Switch the Second is not out yet.
Just like they mention cloud services from companies that are still developing them, or the discount percentage that PS gives to CoD in royalties.
Then it is the external parties involved (Nintendo, the companies that are making unconfirmed cloud gaming services, and Sony) who ask that they censor the information related to them that they consider confidential.
And at these very high levels of business, it's not surprising that they all handle sensitive information from outside companies that has yet to be leaked or even rumored. And simply, in this judicial process, they are using all the information available in high places, including the most sensitive.
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Aaaaaah, gotcha. The part where Nintendo asked for it to be redacted made me assume Nintendo were the ones who said it. I see.
So Microsoft knows about Switch The Second, then?
Yes, at such high levels of business it is normal for them to know something.
In addition, MS is a valuable development partner simply by having Minecraft under their control.
It is quite likely that they were among the first to receive development kits to have Minecraft games on the new platform as soon as possible.
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Well if that's the case then after MS said that I'd expect we need to talk about them having devkits as being a past-tense thing
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Could it be the case where Microsoft are legally required to disclose all that they know (including unannounced platforms) amongst all the parties involved, and when these documents are released to the public, Nintendo are able to redact information that hasn't been made public yet?
Edit: Nvm, Ojoloco explained as such.
Edit: Nvm, Ojoloco explained as such.
technically, as it is a fairly powerful judicial process, any company that asks the CMA is obliged to release all the information it has (although later the company itself and the external parties involved may request that content be censored for the version public of the document).
Omitting information in this type of process can incur an illegality, in addition to being able to change an entire future sentence or negotiation.
epicmartin7
Octorok
You have a link to the og document at all? Wanted to take a look at it a bit more if that's alright.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
You can see the document here. Some relevant quotes
Throughout the document, redactions are used to protect internal company information, in a very obvious way. They either protect the names of companies who are talking about future products, the name of products themselves, or sales numbers.
If this is an editorial redaction, it is the only one, and considering the source of the document isn't quoting anyone, but summarizing findings, there is no need to redact the word "mobile" here. After all, there are multiple bullet points about what NSO+ isn't considered a direct competitor, and there is plenty of room to clarify what "on mobile" might mean in this context.
This redaction indicates non-public info.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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pelusilla6
Bob-omb
It's just proof that they are working on something and that it will be NSO compatible (great i guess if true). These things happen when there are courts involved, the Epic vs Apple case brought to light a lot of information that we wouldnt have otherwise discovered.
Presenting NSO as "cloud gaming" is really odd because it's very explicitly not that. There is no Nintendo cloud gaming serivce, just a few third parties that have brought over standalone cloud releases by partnering with a third party provider that (as far as we know) has no formal relationship with Nintendo beyond what a typical middleware developer would have.
LiC
Member
Lots of different things could be hidden in that redaction. For example: "Nintendo's cloud gaming service is only available on the Nintendo Switch device and is currently estimated to have around 40 million subscribers."
In fact, I consider an unannounced Nintendo platform to be one of the less plausible things inside that particular redaction. For the purposes of the argument being made here, regarding the scope and proliferation of NSO, only announced and available platforms are even relevant.
In fact, I consider an unannounced Nintendo platform to be one of the less plausible things inside that particular redaction. For the purposes of the argument being made here, regarding the scope and proliferation of NSO, only announced and available platforms are even relevant.
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Yes, but the Nvidia hack showed that too.
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Sounds like somebody just piggybacking on the same redacted quotes we’re discussing here.
Sol
Moblin
Alright, so Joy-Cons need a complete overhaul for Switch 2. Top to bottom overhauls for the face buttons, triggers, analog sticks, etc.
I normally play docked with a Pro controller and rarely play it portably. But I've been traveling recently which has forced me to play Metroid Prime Remastered on my Switch in handheld mode.. And yeah, it's far from an ideal experience. So much could be be improved here with the general ergonomics and quality of the design (ie, better triggers and analog sticks).
Fortunately this is exactly the kind of thing that Nintendo would improve upon (and market) for the next system.
I normally play docked with a Pro controller and rarely play it portably. But I've been traveling recently which has forced me to play Metroid Prime Remastered on my Switch in handheld mode.. And yeah, it's far from an ideal experience. So much could be be improved here with the general ergonomics and quality of the design (ie, better triggers and analog sticks).
Fortunately this is exactly the kind of thing that Nintendo would improve upon (and market) for the next system.
SiG
Chain Chomp
You might as well just spill it.
YugamiSekai
T239 vs. Picross 4K
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Nintendo can do whatever they want to the Joy-Cons as long as they don't replace the directional buttons with a regular D-Pad IMO.
Is on this thread
Post in thread 'The Microsoft / Activision Blizzard acquisition |OT| Antitrust Simulator (Up: provisional findings, remedies and third party calls from the CMA)' https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...arty-calls-from-the-cma.633344/post-101468263
SiG
Chain Chomp
They can't, because they have to also act as buttons, and a +Control Pad has a pivot.
For a reason, the CMA's own report says that it excludes it as it is a service focused on providing network functions for the console, rather than a cloud gaming service.
Even so, cloud services for games do not only include running games in the cloud, but also other functionalities such as saving data on external servers. In any case, the report itself puts the NSO as a case apart for being the weird case among all the services offered in the gaming market.
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While you're broadly correct, Nintendo DID advertise the better battery life provided by Mariko in Nintendo Switch Lite and Nintendo Switch V2 (Officially, the Nintendo Switch HAC-001(-01))
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I propose we agree as a community to refer to the new device as "Nintendo Switch [REDACTED]" rather than 2, Super or Nu.
I think there are no problems if you put that type of rumours on the speculation thread.
it may come from a dubious source, but it is something the reader will know
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
That information is elsewhere in the document for NSO and other services, and in each place, it's just the number that is redacted. In general, these kinds of documents - including this one - are written in a pretty tedious bullet point-per-sentence style, and it's in a paragraph entirely about why NSO has been removed from the relevant market analysis. The redacted portion is almost definitely referring to Nintendos long term plans for availability as they would relate to continued irrelevance. Elsewhere, unannounced services from other companies are mentioned in the analysis, and just the name is redacted.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
They listed it, but they didn't market the V2 as better battery life, or advertise which revision you'd get. They were silent about it, right?
I want a Red Dead Redemption 2 Nintendo Switch [REDACTED] portI propose we agree as a community to refer to the new device as "Nintendo Switch [REDACTED]" rather than 2, Super or Nu.
That feels like kind of an overly broad definition.
They explicitly said it was coming beforehand with the battery life change and changed the packaging (the source of the name "red box Switch"). It didn't get marketed like a typical revision, but they weren't silent about it.
They probably would have been silent if it wasn't for the battery life thing.
That was probably my post here? As you mentioned, the post was to demonstrate that under certain circumstances Nintendo would make less money by selling more units at a lowered price. It was kind of long, so here's a shortened version (numbers are placeholders):
Unit sales without price cut
N1 = 14 million
[assuming 20% drop from this FY's 18MM]
Avg net profit per unit
P1 = $120
[avg profit of all models: v2, OLED, Lite; this is very broad-stroke but I want to keep it simple]
Net profit without price cut
R1 = N1*P1 = $1.68 billion
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Unit sales with price cut
N2 = 18 million
[selling 4MM more units over N1]
Price cut
X = $50
Retailer markup (typically 5%-10%)
M = 8%
[game console markup is quite low in the US]
Avg net profit per unit after price cut
P2 = P1-X/(1+M) = $120-$50/108% = $74
Net profit with price cut
R2 = N2*P2 = $1.332 billion
--------------------
Profit gain/loss due to price cut
D = R2-R1 = -$348MM
So based on my place-holding numbers, Nintendo would earn $348MM less by discounting $50. Sorry I don't have time to build a calculator, but you can plug your own numbers into the formula above. The gist, however, is that unless the unit profit is extremely high and/or the price cut can significantly boost the sales, price cutting may not be sensible to Nintendo.
Since Furukawa just moaned (again) about the lower margin of OLED model on the Q3 earnings call, and told the investors that Nintendo tries to "preserve the value and prices [...] as much as possible", that rumored $299 SKU is probably untrue, or simply a v2 Switch in a new (Mario movie?) packaging. It could also be 1) a dock-less OLED or 2) a Lite with pack-in games, but I doubt it.
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Edit: grammar
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This is what happens when cloud services can involve many different things at the same time.
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They were in fact not silent. While they didn't slap it in ads, they did tweet about it, which is marketing. They also clarified on their Twitter what box design has which revision.
While very minor, they did acknowledge and market it, if only a tiny bit.
GameStop marketed it fairly heavily, but I don't imagine that was a Nintendo initiative, it's clear they were briefed on the situation pre-launch.
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Re: Court documents
While we all somewhat accepted it as inevitable, and Nintendo has implied it, this is pretty clear confirmation that the next device from Nintendo is:
A Nintendo Switch
Which inherits Nintendo Switch Online and its features (and presumably, retro library).
While we all somewhat accepted it as inevitable, and Nintendo has implied it, this is pretty clear confirmation that the next device from Nintendo is:
A Nintendo Switch
Which inherits Nintendo Switch Online and its features (and presumably, retro library).
You forgot the [REDACTED]
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Red Dead Redacted
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"RTX ray tracing is a magic"And I didn't photoshop this...
-Switch
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If true I think the latter option makes more sense personally. They might find it more cost effective to switch over the bulk of their production lines to the next model while selling a stockpile of existing units.
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