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Reviews Metroid Dread | Review Thread
- Thread starter mazi
- Start date
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
It looks like Dark Souls 2 has a 91. It’s the only game over 90. These games that are very hard (with no easy options) will have a ceiling when it comes to reviews.
Nintendianajones64
Bob-omb
Excellent point. I feel like Nintendo gets unfairly targeted if their games are hard while other developers are praised for it. It's ridiculous.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I agree, and I implied as much in the ‘From easy mode’ thread.
I haven’t read many reviews myself, but I just mean to say I’d be surprised if it was getting docked points for its difficulty in an era that sees reviewers gushing over From titles. I can’t beat From games; something about them is insurmountable. Every single major fight in Metroid started that way, but quickly turned into a puzzle I was unraveling; Vividly telegraphed moves, asking me to find the right tool for each of them, and also ample shortcuts to winning.
The hardest fight for me was Kraid, and it’s cause I started by brute forcing so much of it. But it was also the skill check I needed. From that point onward I started to see encounters as the puzzles they were.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
That’s definitely the one thing I will say is absolutely true. Regardless of reviews other games from non Nintendo series get praised for their difficulty and people want other series to copy those games. But when Nintendo has one game a generation that has difficulty it’s more of an issue and doesn’t get that same kind of praise.
Metroid Dread is amazing. The difficulty comes from learning how to use your abilities in combat. Learning your enemies. You’re not just gonna plow through a boss. You’re not going to waggle your joycon through a boss battle. No, the game wants you to put more thought into it. It’s not some bs difficulty.
Hollow Knight’s MC score is on par with Dread’s (slightly lower on PC, slightly higher on Switch). And it gets criticized for its difficulty a lot, as well. But it’s also an indie game, and it seems like people are conditioned to accepting demanding indies in a way that they aren’t for $60 games from major publishers.
SuperFakerBros
Anti-Artistic Integrity
Oh that is odd, I can't deny that. Plenty of difficult games get a ton of praise without being knocked down for it, like Hollow Knight, Cuphead, Celeste, action games like DMC and Bayonetta, GoW 2018, From Software's games, and more. I don't see why something like Metroid Dread or DKC should be any different
- Pronouns
- He
I must admit, I do find it a bit strange how hard it has been for Dread to get to a 90 or above given how much of Switch's most acclaimed games are indie games with a similar scope. Stuff like Hollow Knight or Ori, and for games not in the same genre stuff like Celeste or Hades.
I honestly kind of wonder if it being a Nintendo game sets much higher expectations. This might be, ironically, a scenario where it having to live up to the Nintendo name sets it back. The $60 price tag might be another.
Could also just be that those games felt more "new" - which I guess is a fair criticism, and honestly that's my best guess. They're not just games that feel "newer" but also more important, I guess, given Celeste and Ori's themes, or Hollow Knight and Hades indie-backstory.
Not really sure. Can't say I'm upset at a high 80 either, though.
The thing with dread is if you reduce the damage from bosses then the person failing would just take longer to fail. If they aren't going to dodge it's attacks then they are still going to get hit. You'd have to re animate them to give them bigger windows and slower moves.
SuperFakerBros
Anti-Artistic Integrity
I wouldn't say that. Sometimes one or two hits is the difference between victory or defeat
DrDave
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He
I know it’s hard not to be biased as I’ve been a fan of the series my whole life, but I really feel like it should have reviewed better. As I got through the second half of the game, I quickly realized it can stand besides Super, Prime and Zero Mission as one of the best games ever made.
Maybe Metroid still is a niche thing, that only some people really fall in love with? I’m looking forward to seeing this one’s sales numbers.
Maybe Metroid still is a niche thing, that only some people really fall in love with? I’m looking forward to seeing this one’s sales numbers.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
yeah this game does not demand perfection. One of my boss wins was incredibly sloppy.
I was thinking mostly about
the experiment that heals and the chozo robots that can be really nasty with red attack spam, get pinned in a corner by that without knowing/forgetting to flash and you'd be done for.
Suppose it could have a lower difficulty where you'd do much more damage to bosses and they'd do less so you could brute force them with fewer dodges needed.
NewPueblo
Bug Enthusiast
I wouldn't be opposed to them adding an 'Easy mode'. I've thought of a couple of different things they could do other than having Samus take less damage. For one, maybe have a line of sight on Bosses' attacks, so they can be more easily avoided. Another is to slow down the counter animation at first so players can understand that they need to fire immediately after, and not move (both things are required to activate those cool beat down scenes).
Alas, simply lowering damage taken from bosses would also do the trick, as others have mentioned here.
Alas, simply lowering damage taken from bosses would also do the trick, as others have mentioned here.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I thought Dread was significantly easier than Super. And especially Metroid 1, probably because of how antiquated it is.
Dread gives you so many tools to use for both exploration and boss fights, both of them become very easy once you have a little experience with each area or boss.
Dread gives you so many tools to use for both exploration and boss fights, both of them become very easy once you have a little experience with each area or boss.
SuperFakerBros
Anti-Artistic Integrity
Oh I wouldn't say it requires perfection either. But it definitely requires some quick reflexes
Oh yeah, those parts where you can pinned into a corner and constantly get damaged is rough. For something like that, it may not be quite as helpful
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing major, just a little help to make it more manageable
Dang and here I am dying like dozens of times in the first two areas alone (just shuttled over to the third)
I dont remember dying so much in Super Metroid (granted it was a while ago).
The EMMIs get me pretty good so far. Gotta say I appreciate how I pause and collect myself a bit before going thru an EMMI door. If that evocation is by design, good job Mercury Steam
marmoka
Shriekbat
I agree that Dread would have been benefitted with easy mode, if possible with the option of changing difficulty whenever you wanted without affecting the game like Atlus recently does in their games. Some bosses are pretty hard in the game.
What I don't like is Nintendo being punished for making a difficult game, and other developers being praised for doing the same because potatoes.
What I don't like is Nintendo being punished for making a difficult game, and other developers being praised for doing the same because potatoes.
juuso
Koopa
This is just my own perspective, but I also die a lot more in Dread and still feel it's easier.Dang and here I am dying like dozens of times in the first two areas alone (just shuttled over to the third)
Talking just about the bosses, I think they are more learnable in Dread. You die a couple (or more than a couple to be honest) times, but on each try you have picked up something new and make it just a bit further. Eventually the whole boss becomes just a breeze, you can avoid any attack and counter at every opportunity. In Super Metroid, which I'm not great at but have finished more than five times, I feel like I'm just as bad as I ever was. I just spam rockets and hope for the best.
In exploration Dread puts more effort into funneling you to the right paths, whereas it's easier to get lost in Super. I guess some have felt Dread does this too much even, but I feel like it strikes a good balance.
I guess my perception of what is difficult boils not so much down to the number of failures (deaths), but the number of successes (in-game progress or becoming better at the game) you make. For me Dread comes first in both categories, but I'm more inclined to look at the latter one when judging it.
Twinsen
Moblin
The amount of hits you can take in super metroid is a lot more than MercurySteam's games. E tanks are also more abundant in super metroid and the games after.
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This game is challenging for sure, but I never feel it is unfair. In Super you could brute force the bosses just by unloading your arsenal as their patterns were simple, so you could just tank them for good bits and come out the victor.
Samus Returns luckily prepared me a bit for this game with the Diggernaut.
I think what really makes this game challenging is the anxiety one can have. It’s the literal dread. I remember my first fight with a chozo and how nervous I got with how fast it was, so I just went all in guns blazing and got decimated two times. I took a deep breath and realized this guy is using two to three very clear patterns, just faster, and he has two strong tells. Bam. Next fight with it, it went so smoothly.
Samus Returns luckily prepared me a bit for this game with the Diggernaut.
I think what really makes this game challenging is the anxiety one can have. It’s the literal dread. I remember my first fight with a chozo and how nervous I got with how fast it was, so I just went all in guns blazing and got decimated two times. I took a deep breath and realized this guy is using two to three very clear patterns, just faster, and he has two strong tells. Bam. Next fight with it, it went so smoothly.
Doom Eternal is an 88 on Meta and that's the best game I've played in the last decade, so Samus is in rarefied company. I think we have to accept that any game that's part of a franchise that's historically been pretty frictionless is gonna receive some criticism if it suddenly starts demanding more from players.
Besides, I think Dread's legacy as one of the best entries in the series has already been cemented - while having a 90+ Meta is nice, in the long run it's ultimately meaningless.
Besides, I think Dread's legacy as one of the best entries in the series has already been cemented - while having a 90+ Meta is nice, in the long run it's ultimately meaningless.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Dang and here I am dying like dozens of times in the first two areas alone (just shuttled over to the third)
I dont remember dying so much in Super Metroid (granted it was a while ago).
The EMMIs get me pretty good so far. Gotta say I appreciate how I pause and collect myself a bit before going thru an EMMI door. If that evocation is by design, good job Mercury Steam
Oh don't get me wrong, bosses in Dread are definitely harder- at least at first. But he overall game was harder in super, it was much harder to find your way forward and progress with the game at times. Dread is a lot easier in that respect thanks to the QoL tools and better visual signposting.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As a person who struggles with difficult games, this was not an issue for me at all when it comes to Dread. The game isn't unfair, it's challenging and exciting. The EMMI encounters are basically puzzles. As for the boss battles, it's simply a matter of trial and error and learning their patterns.
Formula Zero
Octorok
Nintendo games review well based mostly on their unique and exceptional level design wich this game severely lack, am surprised it even got 88 , it should be around low 80 at best standing next to skyward sword (even tho SS is a way better game anyway)
Interesting. Mind naming some examples to underline your thesis?
Formula Zero
Octorok
Pat 2D Metroid games, Prime games, Zelda games are almost carried by their level design, Galaxy games and even Mario Odyssey, there's also Pikmin and Donkey Kong and even racing games like Mario Kart and F-Zero
all are leagues ahead of Dread in term of level design wich is mostly a generic on rail action side scroller disguised as a Metroid game
While I can't say anything about Dread -- haven't actually played it so far --, I do think the point about level design overall is an interesting one. Thanks for the response! That's something I'll think further about.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fusion, Zero Mission, and Samus Returns are more "on rails" than Dread is imo
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe if you don't count the EMMI sections. I'm constantly dying at those. But even then I'm not sure, Super isn't a hard game at all outside of Phantoon and Ridley (and I guess Draygon if you don't use the trick).
Formula Zero
Octorok
the main problem is they still let you to figure out and beat the map yourself to some extent
in Dread the way forward is "just use the ability you recently aquired in a near by location" ,the map is almost pointless, and it doesn't help there's no puzzle or any interesting usage of any ability in the game as well, exploration is pointless and what you actually do in most of the game is nothing remarkable, the only good thing about the game is the bosses IMO
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh, EMMI sections aren't exactly hard even I died a bunch too. It doesn't take long to get through with a bit of trial and error.
Maybe I define difficulty differently. I don't think dying a lot means a game is hard if it's still relatively easy to progress after a death or two. If on the other hand you have a ton of trouble progressing, death or no death, then I think it's hard. Super was like that to me, finding the next place to go in that was very tough from time to time. In Dread your progression is much more signposted.
Kevin360
OG Direct OP
- Pronouns
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This game reminded me a bit of the Vita Chamber system in Bioshock. I felt freedom to run around and explore the EMMI areas because I knew what door I’d recover from, or with the bosses, I knew I could just run in and start shooting at whatever I thought would do damage and tank hits. I’d pop back up right outside the boss door.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Lant_War
Understand, Understand
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This isn't really the case though, is it? Doom Eternal, Crash Bandicoot 4 and Super Monkey Ball Banana Mania (no reason in particular for these choices) all got reviews that docked points for the difficulty. Hell for how many mentions Souls and Hollow Knight have gotten in the thread, those also got reviews that criticized the games' difficulty and lack of easy modes, reviewers weren't any more particularly unfair with Dread as they were with hard games in general.
It's nothing at all like a quick time event, you're in full control of your character. That would be like calling parries in fighting games quick time events.
The bosses in Dread telegraph when they're about to do a parry-able move (The Chozo Warrior tapping their spear on the ground for example) and then they follow up on that with the parry visual indicator and sound. I thought the timing window on it was pretty generous to be honest. You can extend the window even further by using your dash parry attack if you're having trouble with it.
- Pronouns
- He
Wouldn't say it's "nothing at all" like a quick time event
You literally ...
Activate a quick time event with the parry in the end of the game xD
And in fact, in regular gameplay, it can even kind of interrupt the gameplay flow. It's not as bad as a quick time event, but it's not like a super seamless parry either.
If you literally want to take the term at face value and call any game mechanic that requires tighter timing a quick time event then sure but the meaning is very contextual to games like God of War, Shenmue, and Heavy Rain and doesn't really apply to Metroid Dread with its parry mechanic imo. Ex:
In video games, a quick time event (QTE) is a method of context-sensitive gameplay in which the player performs actions on the control device shortly after the appearance of an on-screen instruction/prompt. It allows for limited control of the game character during cut scenes or cinematic sequences in the game. Performing the wrong prompt, mistiming the action, or not performing any action at all results in the character's failure at their task and often in an immediate game over, or life being lost and being shown a death/failure animation.
I really disagree with this. If you're properly using the dash counter you never have to stop. Check out some Metroid Dread speedruns on YouTube.
- Pronouns
- He
But I didn't call it a quick time event. I just said it's not "nothing at all" like it, either. And that it's ironic that we're defending the mechanic for not being a QTE, when one of the only QTEs in the game is activated by the mechanic. That doesn't make the mechanic a QTE, it's just funny, and in general I would agree that QTE I'm talking about is one of the lesser moments in the game.
Does the dash counter remove Samus stopping as well as the screen zooming on in the parry? I've used the dash parry but honestly it's so powerful it often just kills the enemies anyways (it has default melee damage I'm pretty sure). Because mostly when I say it can stop normal gameplay, I don't mean because Samus stays in place, I mean because the screen zooming effect. In a game about exploration like Metroid, the amount of time it takes to focus on one target instead of moving forward can stop flow.
Regardless I think the replies above me are overreacting to my comment. I'm just pointing out similarities, not saying they are the same. I'd say the fact that parries activate special cutscenes, camera zoom-ins, and a timing mechanic are enough to say there are similarities, and thus not "nothing at all" like a quick time event. That's all. Not that it is a quick time event or is as badly implemented as one normally would be. I'm not even complaining about it being able to be used to stop gameplay flow, because it's a super optional feature especially compared to its implementation in Samus Returns. It even removes the need for grinding for ammo/health, which is a net positive.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
that definition is pretty explicitly describing what i'm complaining about in dread.
during the chozo warrior fights you mentioned, the game goes into a cutscene (it moves the camera to a more cinematic angle and removes player control - its functionally a cutscene) and you have to hit the parry when prompted or you fail. every boss has this in some capacity.
even when its not a cutscene, like experiment z-57, it still requires a precise button prompt at the end of a phase to continue.
just because the game flashes a white light to indicate pushing y, instead of showing you the y button on screen, doesnt mean it's not a QTE
i'm only talking about bosses, where the parry is always at a very scripted moment in the fight. might as well be the Krauser boss in RE4
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enempi
Piranha Plant
- Pronouns
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Kind of surprised the game is getting docked for difficulty. It should definitely have an easy mode, because every game should, but I didn’t think it was really too bad. Challenging at times for sure, but dying is not really punishing in the way it is in something like Dark Souls. When you fail an EMMI section for example you get dropped right back at the zone entrance. Same thing with bosses. You can retry immediately, and after a couple deaths it’s usually pretty easy to get the hang of things. They really only have a few moves to dodge. Nothing too crazy. Oh well! This is why I don’t place much stock in metacritic scores.
