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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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ILikeFeet said:
No cap, but I roll my eyes when people bring up "online infrastructure". It's a vague catch all that doesn't explain what exactly is the problem. Nintendo has had poor online services, but the switch is home to damn near every kind of online game, sometimes not even using Nintendo's servers
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Much as it aggravates me that I've accepted Nintendo's online infrastructure is piss poor in a number of ways, it is a whole other level of frustration that nothing is seemingly done to improve it, at least from a front-end facing consumer level.

Oh rad, they updated the servers from NEX to NPLN. It now no longer checks for Windows 98, but does it reduce the lag in Smash? Does it stop Overcooked d/c'ing in the middle of an online game? Can I complete a game of Rocket League without packet loss where I suddenly slingshot across the arena? Will I ever see speeds improve beyond 30mb/s down and 15mb/s up? (I know the ethernet connection is limited by the USB-C port and something is throttling it server side intentionally, but it's still bull)

Credit where credit is due that I can't say I've experienced any issues in either Mario Kart or Tetris 99, but given how few options there are to interact with in the latter, and the former doesn't have a whole host of user changes to make either when online, I think it's by virtue of simplicity it works at all.
 
karmitt said:
We’ve been led to believe that it’s a very substantial effort. Sony used Demons Souls as a showcase, why wouldn’t it be acceptable for Nintendo to do the same?

At the moment I have much higher expectations of it visually than Violet / Scarlet.
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Scarlet/Violet looks really ok for an Open World game compared to all the Pokémon games on Switch
 
YolkFolk said:
Because Metroid Prime remake is probably designed from the ground up for Switch. Demon Souls was designed from the ground up for the successor.
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Seeing what has been done with cross gen recently, I don’t know how much water this argument holds.

I mean the gameplay originated on ps3, so it certainly isn’t doing anything too crazy in that department. Aside from loading times, it’s not doing anything spectacular with the SSD. I don’t really see what makes it more next gen, than forza or forbidden west.

I definitely thing the mp remaster could showcase Drake if Nintendo wants it too.
 
Brofield said:
Much as it aggravates me that I've accepted Nintendo's online infrastructure is piss poor in a number of ways, it is a whole other level of frustration that nothing is seemingly done to improve it, at least from a front-end facing consumer level.

Oh rad, they updated the servers from NEX to NPLN. It now no longer checks for Windows 98, but does it reduce the lag in Smash? Does it stop Overcooked d/c'ing in the middle of an online game? Can I complete a game of Rocket League without packet loss where I suddenly slingshot across the arena? Will I ever see speeds improve beyond 30mb/s down and 15mb/s up? (I know the ethernet connection is limited by the USB-C port and something is throttling it server side intentionally, but it's still bull)

Credit where credit is due that I can't say I've experienced any issues in either Mario Kart or Tetris 99, but given how few options there are to interact with in the latter, and the former doesn't have a whole host of user changes to make either when online, I think it's by virtue of simplicity it works at all.
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a lot of those sound like personal connection issues rather than nintendo's services. except for the speeds
Mirev said:
Scarlet/Violet looks really ok for an Open World game compared to all the Pokémon games on Switch
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that's quite the low bar you're setting
 
Mr Swine said:
I’m guessing that GTA5 and RDR2 will skip next Switch as the old Xbox One/PS4 versions will be discontinued soon + storage problems on carts
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I don't see why carts are a problem when a number of publishers have adopted a partial digital release. not to mention digital only isn't as much of a negative anymore. the big issues are Online. that could be more simple to solve by letting people know they should have a large SD card


@ReddDreadtheLead posted this in discord and one of the follow up tweets caught my interest




Orin also has 1 RT core per 2 SM. which leads me to believe that either the RT core performance improved by a lot, or that more RT cores aren't necessary since the bottleneck lies elsewhere
 
NateDrake said:
The problem with GTA5 for Switch wasn't performance. It was related to cost and some issues with GTA Online due to Nintendo's poor online infrastructure.
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Damn Rockstar really don't want to ship their games without the online mode anymore? I'd rather play GTA5 over GTAO tbh.

Mr Swine said:
I’m guessing that GTA5 and RDR2 will skip next Switch as the old Xbox One/PS4 versions will be discontinued soon + storage problems on carts
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RDR2 would be a perfect launch title with Drake, not sure about Red Dead Online (which is now known to be dead)
Heck the game even got a DLSS update recently.
 
Mr Swine said:
I’m guessing that GTA5 and RDR2 will skip next Switch as the old Xbox One/PS4 versions will be discontinued soon + storage problems on carts
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Both can still be on Switch Pro, PS4 builds for GTA5 and RDR2 won't get canned anytime soon. Next gen is too slow to build a big enough install base to do that.

As for physical media, people need to get used to digital only big games on Switch as neither card storage technology or asset compression is there yet to have physical cartridge media to remain alive.
 
Mr Swine said:
I’m guessing that GTA5 and RDR2 will skip next Switch as the old Xbox One/PS4 versions will be discontinued soon + storage problems on carts
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A lot of the games that release on Xbox are unplayable without downloading digital data, there is no reason to think it couldn't be the same on the Drake (I’m talking third parties, not Nintendo). In any case, I think internal storage is a bigger limit than cart size
 
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9-Volt said:
Both can still be on Switch Pro, PS4 builds for GTA5 and RDR2 won't get canned anytime soon. Next gen is too slow to build a big enough install base to do that.

As for physical media, people need to get used to digital only big games on Switch as neither card storage technology or asset compression is there yet to have physical cartridge media to remain alive.
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They won’t close those, but current gen (we are 18 months in so I hate the next gen term now) consoles are selling as fast as they ever have at this point in a console cycle.

Edit: To clarify not going in on 9-Volt, but rather this weird sentiment on current gen numbers. We are at 3X,000 and climbing between Sony and MS. It’s not a super small number by any means.
 
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i will always be surprised that they didn’t got interested on a cloud version of GTAV or Online at least.

Or if GTA Trilogy has sold relative well on Switch, maybe can encourage Rockstar to release the single player mode of GTAV as a standole release, then GTA Online via Cloud Streaming or exclusive to Drake model. I’m sure there is a way to fit GTAV and its online on Nintendo’s consoles.

About RDR2; its still a relative new game, has it have its own PS5/XBSeries patch? Aside from storage issues, it can easily be a Drake exclusive (or even release on the OG HW if they wanted lol).
 
LoneRanger said:
i will always be surprised that they didn’t got interested on a cloud version of GTAV or Online at least.

Or if GTA Trilogy has sold relative well on Switch, maybe can encourage Rockstar to release the single player mode of GTAV as a standole release, then GTA Online via Cloud Streaming or exclusive to Drake model. I’m sure there is a way to fit GTAV and its online on Nintendo’s consoles.

About RDR2; its still a relative new game, has it have its own PS5/XBSeries patch? Aside from storage issues, it can easily be a Drake exclusive (or even release on the OG HW if they wanted lol).
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I just don’t see it happening since they could have done that for the current Switch yet didn’t. They also had other options available to them to get the game on Switch yet probably passed on those. I’m sure some other issue will crop up when talking about Drake that will prevent them from putting it on there.
 
Reinhard Schneider said:
Dude, do you have your Switch running inside a lead box or something?
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ILikeFeet said:
a lot of those sound like personal connection issues rather than nintendo's services. except for the speeds

that's quite the low bar you're setting
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It's so bizarre; even if I'm standing next to my router with Switch in hand I can't get better speeds. I remember changing some settings on my router so the NAT type was A instead of B a while back, but for whatever reason it just reset by itself not even a day later (I have my suspicions my parents changed it back, though). I get that being a stationary console my PS4 would theoretically have a better WiFi antenna but that can hit 100mb/s down and 50mb/s up wirelessly being six inches to the left of my Switch dock under my TV. Since connecting an ethernet cable from the floor above where the router is to my basement, it's capable of doubling that on a good day. As an aside, what kind of speeds are you (and everyone else who cares to answer) getting on your Switches? Wired or wireless? And how far away is your router if wireless?

It was just so disappointing to hear that even with a built in ethernet port on the OLED dock it's unlikely to improve (my) internet speeds by a significant amount. While it's easier to blame Nintendo for their server issues and lackluster internet capabilities, in my current living situation I can't really make changes to the router until I move out to my own place.

Which leads me to bitching and moaning on an internet forum hoping that this bullying of Nintendo will make them consider investing more money than they currently are to improve their network services as a whole lol
 
Brofield said:
t's so bizarre; even if I'm standing next to my router with Switch in hand I can't get better speeds. I remember changing some settings on my router so the NAT type was A instead of B a while back, but for whatever reason it just reset by itself not even a day later (I have my suspicions my parents changed it back, though). I get that being a stationary console my PS4 would theoretically have a better WiFi antenna but that can hit 100mb/s down and 50mb/s up wirelessly being six inches to the left of my Switch dock under my TV. Since connecting an ethernet cable from the floor above where the router is to my basement, it's capable of doubling that on a good day. As an aside, what kind of speeds are you (and everyone else who cares to answer) getting on your Switches? Wired or wireless? And how far away is your router if wireless?
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To be honest i'm not speaking about speed, but about stability, wich seems to be you main issue. I reacted to the Rocket League bit because it's one of my free time games and even having the bad connection icon floating in the screen i barely had a few hitches per session.
 
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My biggest problem is that I need to undock Switch, carry it to another room, connect to wifi and then dock it. From dock it can't even see my router. Everything else about OLED Switch is great.
 
NeonRed said:
My biggest problem is that I need to undock Switch, carry it to another room, connect to wifi and then dock it. From dock it can't even see my router. Everything else about OLED Switch is great.
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Thats not normal
Looks like you had bad luck and bought a broken switch or dock.
 
Kenka said:
By the way, who mentioned the Metroid Prime remake rumor in the first place?
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We were guessing what game would the new Switch launch with if it comes this holiday. Me and some other posters suggested Metroid Prime Remastered as Dread was the launch title for the OLED.
 
Mirev said:
Scarlet/Violet looks really ok for an Open World game compared to all the Pokémon games on Switch
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They released OLED with Metroid Dread in October 2021 and Lite in September 2019 despite both years having Pokémon in November. I don't think Pokémon is gonna be the launch title. And I'm sure as hell a remaster of Metroid Prime can look marginally better than Scarlet and Violet will, just look at how Wind Waker HD looked on the Wii U. It can be a graphical showcase and it's an iconic game in 4K.
 
Mr Swine said:
I’m guessing that GTA5 and RDR2 will skip next Switch as the old Xbox One/PS4 versions will be discontinued soon + storage problems on carts
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I'm on that same train. I don't think Nintendo will further address their problem with cost and supply of game cards(I think we still don't have any game using 64gb? and we're 5 years on). Nor do I think Rockstar will bother to work that heavily on compression and adapting the games for the Switch. They didn't bother to make a cheap port of the PS360 game because they'd stop the online, nor to compress the remaster. I would bet they won't care the least to downport the next gen vers nor adapt the last gen ver to work online.
 
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Has Nintendo ever dropped two revisions of a console in back to back years? I thought they always wanted to let at least two holidays season pass for each big revision. That would mean Q1/Q2 2023 (probably Q1 because Q2 is quite slow sales wise + end of FY) earliest time for Drake to release
 
Blue Monty said:
Has Nintendo ever dropped two revisions of a console in back to back years? I thought they always wanted to let at least two holidays season pass for each big revision. That would mean Q1/Q2 2023 (probably Q1 because Q2 is quite slow sales wise + end of FY) earliest time for Drake to release
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Edit: 3DS was almost all back to back.
Original launch: February 2011
Nintendo 3DS XL: July 2012
Nintendo 2DS: October 2013
New Nintendo 3DS: holiday 2014(JP) and February 2015(US).
 
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Marce-chan said:
They released OLED with Metroid Dread in October 2021 and Lite in September 2019 despite both years having Pokémon in November. I don't think Pokémon is gonna be the launch title. And I'm sure as hell a remaster of Metroid Prime can look marginally better than Scarlet and Violet will, just look at how Wind Waker HD looked on the Wii U. It can be a graphical showcase and it's an iconic game in 4K.
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Although i think the new pokemon looks good compared to past games and gf is clearly improving substantially, i still refuse to believe it will push the switch as much as a retro studios game. I could add monolith or nlg into this too.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
You might want to get that checked out.
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I'm on the first floor and router is on the second floor. If I get to room below my router it can connect, but it can't if I get out of that room. There are no doors between that room and tv room. PS4, Wii U, XONE S and 3DS on same place have almost full signal strength.
 
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Mr Doggo said:
Although i think the new pokemon looks good compared to past games and gf is clearly improving substantially, i still refuse to believe it will push the switch as much as a retro studios game. I could add monolith or nlg into this too.
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It won’t push switch more than BotW or close to it.
 
Dakhil said:
semianalysis.substack.com

Samsung Electronics Cultural Issues Are Causing Disasters In Samsung Foundry, LSI, And Even DRAM Memory!

Samsung Electronics has a culture problem that has shaken it to its core. Samsung is slipping on all aspects of technology development including the one area they have historically crushed all competitors, DRAM.
semianalysis.substack.com semianalysis.substack.com
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since it's largely up to Nvidia, methinks the choice was already made for Nintendo. that could explain why Drake is so much more performant than we expected. Dane may have been an 8nm design (unless the leak has details about that) prior to the decision to move
 
Dakhil said:
I don't think so since the industry source in the Business Korea article mentioned that "The application processors have been designed by ARM, the same problems have been confirmed in both of those manufactured by Samsung Electronics and TSMC, and thus it can be said that the cause is not the manufacturers but the designer". I don't think a Samsung Foundry employee could have information about Arm's Cortex-A and Cortex-X Armv9 CPU designs having performance and power efficiency issues with Samsung and TSMC. And Qualcomm has been rumoured to switch to TSMC for the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1.

On an off-topic note, I don't think one of the "experts" knows what he's talking about when he's talking about Apple Silicon, because I'm sure Apple doesn't use Arm's designs, but rather Arm's ISA.
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I was (mostly) joking, but in general it just seemed to be a fairly misinformed article (as you say the claim that Apple uses modified ARM designs is simply false, they only license the ISA).

Dakhil said:
semianalysis.substack.com

Samsung Electronics Cultural Issues Are Causing Disasters In Samsung Foundry, LSI, And Even DRAM Memory!

Samsung Electronics has a culture problem that has shaken it to its core. Samsung is slipping on all aspects of technology development including the one area they have historically crushed all competitors, DRAM.
semianalysis.substack.com semianalysis.substack.com
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Thanks for this, it does a pretty good job on rounding up the various reports on what's going on in Samsung at the moment. I hadn't realised they had started to fall behind on DRAM as well, it's historically been a market where they've held a comfortable technological lead over Micron and SK Hynix.

I also noticed this line, which is pretty interesting (and somewhat relevant, if Nvidia are using a Samsung process for Drake):
While the reported yields for Qualcomm’s S8G1 are not quite as low as the Exynos 2200, they aren’t anywhere near adequate. As a side note, this works out fine for Qualcomm (and Nvidia). We have been told these two customers have negotiated to pay per yielded die rather than per wafer fabricated.
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Although I'm curious if "yielded die" here just counts functional dies, or dies which hit specific power/performance targets. And if the latter, who sets those targets, Samsung or Nvidia.

They also have an article on the Ada leaks here, mostly around estimating die sizes for each of the chips. They do think that the increased density of TSMC N4 will result in lower costs for Nvidia, despite higher wafer costs:
The rest of the Ada lineup comes away a lot tamer in terms of die sizes and overall BOM. Performance should generally be above Ampere at the same power with a decently lower cost to fabricate despite much higher wafer costs.
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NateDrake said:
The problem with GTA5 for Switch wasn't performance. It was related to cost and some issues with GTA Online due to Nintendo's poor online infrastructure.
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Does the switch to NPLN servers last year address the online infrasutrcture issue?

Alovon11 said:
iirc the Switch may have to path through Nintendo's own infrastructure to validate it's on a Switch????


Also, ofc the Switch's WiFi being notoriously unstable most of the time doesn't help even if that's not the case atm.
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I don't think always online gameplay is an issue, Switch does host several online only F2P games like Warframe, Frotnite, Paladins, Apex etc.
 
Dekuman said:
Does the switch to NPLN servers last year address the online infrasutrcture issue?


I don't think always online gameplay is an issue, Switch does host several online only F2P games like Warframe, Frotnite, Paladins, Apex etc.
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Fortnite has been a pain to play lately.

I used to not have any issues years ago, but not it takes forever for things to load, and I’m using an Ethernet cable.
 
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Dekuman said:
Does the switch to NPLN servers last year address the online infrasutrcture issue?
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My understanding is that games have to be built around NPLN - it replaces the underlying network protocol - and that NPLN is being introduced slowly into Nintendo games and some key partners until it can become the "default."

Even with NPLN upgrading the core technology, there is also the question of how much money Nintendo has sunk into buying capacity from Google.
 
TinyPikachu said:
is switch oled better

Fortnite has been a pain to play lately.

I used to not have any issues years ago, but not it takes forever for things to load, and I’m using an Ethernet cable.
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The switch to NPLN won't affect things with already existing infrastructure by third parties, such as Fortnite
 
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ILikeFeet said:
since it's largely up to Nvidia, methinks the choice was already made for Nintendo. that could explain why Drake is so much more performant than we expected. Dane may have been an 8nm design (unless the leak has details about that) prior to the decision to move
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Was Dane even in existence? Does that mean Drake is TSMC?
 
SiG said:
Was Dane even in existence? Does that mean Drake is TSMC?
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Well, its always possible Nintendo was working on 2 projects in parallel under the t239 moniker, before they decided to go all in on the more powerful version. But more likely, kopite was just wrong about the code name Dane, and 8nm.
 
Hermii said:
Well, its always possible Nintendo was working on 2 projects in parallel under the t239 moniker, before they decided to go all in on the more powerful version. But more likely, kopite was just wrong about the code name Dane, and 8nm.
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Wasn't this thread just a while ago putting a lot of clout into kopite's predictions?

I take it by "more powerful version" you mean the one mentioned in the NVN2 leaks from Lapsu$.
 
SiG said:
Wasn't this thread just a while ago putting a lot of clout into kopite's predictions?

I take it by "more powerful version" you mean the one mentioned in the NVN2 leaks from Lapsu$.
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He was right about “t239” and it being a custom chip for Nintendo based on Orin. And Drake is kind of similar to Dane.

And yes, by more powerful I meant the 12sm version (if there ever existed 2 versions, which there is no actual evidence of).
 
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