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The patent application was discovered (it's not new, like 2 years old) so no definitely not a rumor. I agree the rumor designation is silly but I think they're trying to say something like "this might not ever become a thing".
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
BlueManifest
Bob-omb
It’s a snes controller with a rumble pack
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Raytraced mirror shield puzzles
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It's not even that, the vibrator is only introduced in the second to last claim.
It's literally just a more compact controller having that particular shape. Nothing about amount of buttons or even necessarily rumble, just the way the internals are arranged to accommodate the battery. It's an extremely boring patent application.
Soul Skater
Koopa
A Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards specific controller
Eclissi
Moblin
But you implied it "Could lead to claims of false advertising/confusion"
MP!
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Having had time to sink my teeth into GT7 a little this week, I think it's evident that the PS5 is trying really hard to do Ray tracing.
(for those who don't know it's off when racing and on is certain scenes like replays and garage or other areas)
It looks nice when used...but it seems like in replays it's mostly GI or AO... and when there are reflections in the scenes you can see the rough edges sort of expose themselves here and there. It's doing what it can.
It makes me wonder
A. If Drake could achieve a similar performance using DLSS (and RT cores) to offset the cost that brute force takes
B. If RT was rendered lower res(which is what I think is happening on PS5 in GT) would DLSS improve the quality of it
Somehow oddly it gave me hope for "Drake" in that if GT could have weirdly specific implementations of RT features then surely it could too. Even if it was limited to AO or something.
I really can't wait to have a better picture of the ray traced performance it could handle... and if DLSS could make it easier to maintain performance while using it.
(for those who don't know it's off when racing and on is certain scenes like replays and garage or other areas)
It looks nice when used...
It makes me wonder
A. If Drake could achieve a similar performance using DLSS (and RT cores) to offset the cost that brute force takes
B. If RT was rendered lower res
Somehow oddly it gave me hope for "Drake" in that if GT could have weirdly specific implementations of RT features then surely it could too. Even if it was limited to AO or something.
I really can't wait to have a better picture of the ray traced performance it could handle... and if DLSS could make it easier to maintain performance while using it.
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The two cases are nothing alike. Switch Lite clearly denotes that some functionality or features are missing. People would generally look into what that missing feature is before purchasing, so it's reasonable to assume any buyer will understand what they're getting.But you implied it "Could lead to claims of false advertising/confusion"
Switch 4k or (4k model) is also quite clearly a Switch, in that it'll play Switch games which is the core function of the product. But the "4k" monicker will inevitably cause some buyers to believe it has a 4k screen, especially considering the precedence set by the Switch (OLED model).
The two situations are not at all alike.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Switch 4k is too loaded of a name. And just doesn't sound like something Nintendo would do.
If it's a true successor to the current switch models, sure it can run 4k native of current switch games (if the 12 SMs are true), but then what about ps4 quality games in 4k?
no..
What about XSs quality games? Definitely not. Next gen will be mostly 1080p with DLSS. Not to mention Nintendo will want to push their games as much as possible fidelity wise a few years after switch is no longer supported. So the bar will be raised for not just third party ports but first as well.
If it's a true successor to the current switch models, sure it can run 4k native of current switch games (if the 12 SMs are true), but then what about ps4 quality games in 4k?
no..
What about XSs quality games? Definitely not. Next gen will be mostly 1080p with DLSS. Not to mention Nintendo will want to push their games as much as possible fidelity wise a few years after switch is no longer supported. So the bar will be raised for not just third party ports but first as well.
Alovon11
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Well 12 Ampere RT cores would beat the PS5 at flat out Ray Tracing Acceleration and not to mention that they wouldn't need to fall back on the GPU as much for BVH Traversal as the RT Cores on Ampere can actually do that unlike the RDNA2 Ray Accelerators.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised for things like RTXGI which are highly scalable, Nintendo could get that workload fully onto the RT cores at certain sample counts, the only performance loss being the CPU cost of constructing the BVH.
brainchild
Moblin
This is an incredibly insensitive comment bereft of any measure of empathy or compassion. Poor people deserve to enjoy things in life as well. While no one is entitled to luxury items/expensive entertainment, it is completely understandable how much it sucks to be poor and not be able to afford a new gaming console. Life can be tough, especially when you're poor. I feel bad for anyone who uses gaming to get through tough times and is unable to afford a new console.
Alovon11
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Yeah, and honestly part of that is why I feel Nintendo can't let the price of Drake creep up too high at default because it would make that model that "Everyone in the family" can get unattainable.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
Just by how Nintendo has named the Switch revisions & models it will be in that vein. I don’t think they use things like ‘Super’, ‘Pro’, ‘New’, or whatever else people can think of.
TinyPikachu
Rattata
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Yup, only gaming device I own right now. Gotta start saving up for the Switch successor.
NineTailSage
Bob-omb
I emailed Reggie. This is what he sent me.
Nintendo Switch Advance.
Source: Trust me bro.
- March 3, 2023.
- 12SM’s (1536 CUDA cores) @1100mhz docked and 495mhz portable
- 8x A78AE’s @ 2Ghz
- 8GB LPDDR5
- DLSS 2.2
- 7” OLED 720p screen
- $449 USD for 128GB
- $499 USD for 256GB
Specs might be off a little here and there but I do think the possibility of Switch Advance being the name is highly likely!
I've been saying this for some time that it's probably something along these lines vs a moniker like 4k, because it is a little limited in concept...
SiG
Chain Chomp
Don't feel obligated to upgrade immediately. Expect the base Switch to still get some support.
Plus it might be more economical to buy older titles "post hype" when they go on sale.
Analog stick is basicly your gyro now?
Eclissi
Moblin
From my point of view, the two situations are equally unclear for a careless buyer.
So, if Nintendo like the name 4k, it can offer it without problems.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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This just isn't true. Lite means Light. All the name inherently implies is that it's a lighter, smaller Switch.
As far as I'm aware the DS Lite isn't missing anything, and it certainly had dual screens
Nintendo DS Lite - Wikipedia
Eclissi
Moblin
ExactlyThis just isn't true. Lite means Light. All the name inherently implies is that it's a lighter, smaller Switch.
As far as I'm aware the DS Lite isn't missing anything, and it certainly had dual screens
Nintendo DS Lite - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Alovon11
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Honestly if Nitnendo did make a TV Only version of Drake it would be outright tiny based on that Orin AGX Enclosure
My Tulpa
Bob-omb
The people balking at the $499 seem to be the same people who view this will be positioned as a next gen Switch 2 successor type device rather than a mid gen upgrade revision type device.
Nintendo releasing a $500 system that is attempting to break away from the current Switch ecosystem and be its own thing…yea that would be a bad decision.
But seeing as this is just another option amongst a variety of Switch models that offer something different ball all play the same games…it’s fine if it’s expensive. It would be designed to sell ~20 million units, to hit that certain gaming market base.
It’s not meant to be the thing everyone is expected to move over to in 2 years.
Mr Swine
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plank
Piranha Plant
Orin is the SOC, Ampere is the GPU.
Thugstas
Bob-omb
Mr Swine
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My Tulpa
Bob-omb
Just call it Power Switch and be done with it.
Make consumers find all the ways it gives the Switch “more power”
I like Super Switch too, don’t get me wrong. But I’d rather nickname it P-Switch personally.
If it’s not one of these I’m boycotting it.
Crusters
Koopa
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Maintains the same form factor as the Xavier Jetson but delivers 6x the power huh. There's that 15 watts.
Drop some shader cores, halve the ram, lower the clocks trim trim. Less than 15 watts orin gaming soc is a very doable thing.
My Tulpa
Bob-omb
That isn’t the point.
Someone posted in an enthusiast gaming forum browbeating others for being too cavalier in how they discuss high end tech console prices. Totally unnecessary.
There are plenty of ways for people to play videogames. If they can’t buy a series X or ps5 ever…it’s not the worst thing in the world.
Anyone who can’t fathom paying hundred of dollars on a device that ONLY plays videogames…just never buys one. Like my wife. She wouldn’t even pay $100 for a dedicated videogame playing device. And that’s ok.
It’s weird to browbeat people on an enthusiast gaming forum, that’s the point. The people you are talking about…who love video gaming but haven’t bought any gaming hardware for years cause they can’t justify spending that kind of money on that hobby…isn’t reading forums like this.
Especially not going to be browbeaten on this forum about Nintendo, who is currently offering a $199 option to play Switch games.
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Eclissi
Moblin
I love the pure communist ideal, but unfortunately it is a utopia.
The reality is that the world today is based on consumerism, and companies adjust the prices of their products accordingly.
This is not the place to decide whether it is right or wrong, but we are forced to acknowledge it and reason accordingly.
SiG
Chain Chomp
To make the topic more relevant, I could see Nintendo keep multiple Switch SKUs active throughout its duration a la Apple, having multiple tiers with each higher tier having more features and options.
It is possible that Nintendo could position this successor Switch as being at the highest tier, for enthusiast who want the best experience for their games. The OLED model proved that a "Premium Switch" is viable in the market, so an MSRP of $399 to $499 is definitely a possibility.
With that said, there might also be factors which will skewer their pricing a little higher. The global chip shortage, etc. could have an impact on their final pricing and might put it well above their target, so it might even go past the $500 mark.
I can see people unfairly comparing it to a lowser SKU Steam Deck, to which the answers of DLSS, perhaps a smaller form factor, more likely better battery life (due to having a newer chip), and the fact that the Deck is heavily subsidized to get a full gaming PC at a price point of $400 would perhaps justify this "Premium Switch" as being priced much higher than a lower end SKU Deck.
With that said, there's really no predicting how the pricing will look like until we see more pieces of the puzzle. It is far to early to be decrying things to be priced too high, especially with things going around the world right now which have no doubt made electronics priced particularly higher than a few years prior.
Edit: I don't see how discussions can be constured as lack of empathy (do people even know what that word even means?) or compassion. It's just lack of context and information. Right now, there are way too many holes to make an educated guess, even with the Nvidia data leak. There are still too many variables at play here, and any opinions formed are pure conjecture with very little basis.
It is possible that Nintendo could position this successor Switch as being at the highest tier, for enthusiast who want the best experience for their games. The OLED model proved that a "Premium Switch" is viable in the market, so an MSRP of $399 to $499 is definitely a possibility.
With that said, there might also be factors which will skewer their pricing a little higher. The global chip shortage, etc. could have an impact on their final pricing and might put it well above their target, so it might even go past the $500 mark.
I can see people unfairly comparing it to a lowser SKU Steam Deck, to which the answers of DLSS, perhaps a smaller form factor, more likely better battery life (due to having a newer chip), and the fact that the Deck is heavily subsidized to get a full gaming PC at a price point of $400 would perhaps justify this "Premium Switch" as being priced much higher than a lower end SKU Deck.
With that said, there's really no predicting how the pricing will look like until we see more pieces of the puzzle. It is far to early to be decrying things to be priced too high, especially with things going around the world right now which have no doubt made electronics priced particularly higher than a few years prior.
Edit: I don't see how discussions can be constured as lack of empathy (do people even know what that word even means?) or compassion. It's just lack of context and information. Right now, there are way too many holes to make an educated guess, even with the Nvidia data leak. There are still too many variables at play here, and any opinions formed are pure conjecture with very little basis.
Kenka
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Nothing I saw on this board.
Now that I have a better grasp on the basic concepts of GPU computing and its metrics, I am now interested in bottlenecks. In particular, I want to know more about the interplay between memory bus width, memory clock and memory capacity. From what I understand:
- a low memory clock can be balanced with a large bus and this, regardless of the memory capacity (unless with are talking about extreme cases)
- a portion of the memory capacity can be be left unused if the bus is too small and the memory clock not high enough
Are there notorious examples of unbalances in design that led to some GPUs being crippled by one or the other of these elements?
Nintendo could price it at 999 but the point is they will not because the hardware is means to sell their 60 dollar software. As they said multiple times, they are an entertainment company in a business where subsidizing hardware is the game. The switch made little profit but not Apple-like profit. A drop in the profit margin of OLED could be because it is a new product with a new manufacturing line, it costs some money per product.
The SOC won't be that expensive if it is manufactured on 8 NM (cheaper than anything TSMC or Samsung 5NM) and there is a notable difference between T234 and T239: T239 doesn't have double speed FP16 processing which means it will have a transistor budget of GPU portion of SOC akin to 1/7th of GA102 (4 to 5 billions transistors). It could be a 180 mm2 (max) SOC fitting a tablet form factor and if they decide that in handheld mode it will run only half of SMs, they could bin the SOC for a handheld only version.
iPhone 12 has under 400 dollars BOM with 90 dollars 5G modem and expensive display.
The SOC won't be that expensive if it is manufactured on 8 NM (cheaper than anything TSMC or Samsung 5NM) and there is a notable difference between T234 and T239: T239 doesn't have double speed FP16 processing which means it will have a transistor budget of GPU portion of SOC akin to 1/7th of GA102 (4 to 5 billions transistors). It could be a 180 mm2 (max) SOC fitting a tablet form factor and if they decide that in handheld mode it will run only half of SMs, they could bin the SOC for a handheld only version.
iPhone 12 has under 400 dollars BOM with 90 dollars 5G modem and expensive display.
Simba1
Bob-omb
IMO some people think that $499 would be too much for next gen Switch (Switch 2) console, only if we really talk about next gen console positioning,
in that case logically people would expect more affordable price point so that wide market could do upgrade to this next gen Switch,
and Nintendo always looking to have more affordable price point compared to other consoles on market ($500 is nothing new for Sony, that price point PS3 had on market back in 2006. while MS is selling XsS for $299).
But if we talk simple about stronger revision (for instance similar to PS4 Pro) and not about real next gen hardware and next positioning,
than pricing is not that important because than we talk only about enthusiast users that are not effect by price point in any case,
but everything we heard until now says this is not simple mid gen upgrade or revision, but full next gen hardware so it makes sense that Nintendo will also positioning more like next gen hardware/console.
Saying that, inflation, general prices rising and low supplies, quite complicate things for Nintendo (Nintendo is definitely not in good position with this new hardware launch), if there are no those things I would said no why that price will be above $399, and talk about potential price point is also much more complicate especially because, exact configuration/s, hardware positioning or time of release are not certain yet.
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SiG
Chain Chomp
I doubt they will go with a sequel moniker such as "2"
I expect a superlative before/after the name, similar to Super Nintendo, GameBoy Advance, or heck, new Nintendo 3DS.
While I do have a stake at a successor being called "Super Nintendo Switch", I wouldn't mind "Nintendo Switch Next" as it equally communicates it being the next itteration while allowing it to be viewed as both a revision and successor at the same time.
Simba1
Bob-omb
Switch 2 is most logical and most practical naming if we really talk about next gen hardware, all those names are thing of the past.
I dont see any problem with Switch 2 naming and in same time keep selling Switch and Switch 2 hardware and games in same time for around 2-3 years after Switch 2 launch.
People that are against Switch 2 naming usually saying that Nintendo never done that before and that would not do that even now,
but thing is that this Nintendo is not same Nintendo that named consoles 3DS and Wii U.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Yes, but neither are they going to become just like Sony/Microsoft all of a sudden. You also forget that this isn't the first time Nintendo has switched hands but also retained their identity as a brand (comparing Hiroshi Yamauchi's tenure versus Satoru Iwata's).
You have to remember Shuntaro Furukawa still has to answer to the board of directors, and one of the key points he raised that, while they don't think high-end hardware is off the table, they will still make sure their products have that distinctive Nintendo approach to them.
Naming something "Switch 2" is quite the opposite of that approach: It's very derivative and generic, and something more akin to what Sony would do.
Even Microsoft (much to some people's chagrin) didn't call their successor Xbox consoles "Xbox 2, Xbox 3, etc." and instead went with "Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series, etc.".
Not to mention calling it "Switch 2" can lead to a lot of confusion, like when being asked if a game is compatible for "Switch 2", making people lead to believe it requires, quite literally, 2 Switches.
NineTailSage
Bob-omb
We heard recently about the RX6500xt suffering from an imbalance of memory bandwidth issues, even though it has 16MB of Infinity Cache 4GB just isn't enough for what that card wants to be...
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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That is only true if it’s a small die and all are at ~100mm^2, ie the 8nm 100mm^2 die has less shaders would be cheaper than the 7nm 100mm^2 die while that die can fit more shaders and/or be clocked higher for better performance, likewise for the 5nm (6 is an improvement of 7). With the 1536 shaders that it seems to have(and if on 8nm) it would be similar to the price of what it would cost on a 7/6/5nm process per chip.
1536 shaders is in no way a small amount. It’s quite a substantial amount of shaders that increases the size of each individual chip. While being less efficient at doing the same task as what a 7/6/5nm chip would do, and the latter has smaller chips.
The only benefit that the 8nm would have is that it’s more readily available than the 7/6/5nm nodes.
It does.
All Ampere products technically do, however T239 has is done differently than the other ampere products.
It can do 4096 GFLOPs FP32 and 8192GFLOPs of FP16.
I believe ILikeFeet shared info about that and it had listed that ORIN does it differently.
Edit: never mind, it was FWD-BWD that found it
Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
Most importantly, there are some key points that are still totally unknown about Orin, like frequency of the Cortex-A78s they're using with it, the core config, what type of RAM it will be configured with by default (understanding that might change depending on how custom Nintendo goes)... and...
famiboards.com
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This applies to big Orin. In post #6,662 Thraktor finds thatThat is only true if it’s a small die and all are at ~100mm^2, ie the 8nm 100mm^2 die has less shaders would be cheaper than the 7nm 100mm^2 die while that die can fit more shaders and/or be clocked higher for better performance, likewise for the 5nm (6 is an improvement of 7). With the 1536 shaders that it seems to have(and if on 8nm) it would be similar to the price of what it would cost on a 7/6/5nm process per chip.
1536 shaders is in no way a small amount. It’s quite a substantial amount of shaders that increases the size of each individual chip. While being less efficient at doing the same task as what a 7/6/5nm chip would do, and the latter has smaller chips.
The only benefit that the 8nm would have is that it’s more readily available than the 7/6/5nm nodes.
It does.
All Ampere products technically do, however T239 has is done differently than the other ampere products.
It can do 4096 GFLOPs FP32 and 8192GFLOPs of FP16.
I believe ILikeFeet shared info about that and it had listed that ORIN does it differently.
Edit: never mind, it was FWD-BWD that found it
Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
Most importantly, there are some key points that are still totally unknown about Orin, like frequency of the Cortex-A78s they're using with it, the core config, what type of RAM it will be configured with by default (understanding that might change depending on how custom Nintendo goes)... and...
"The interesting thing here is that FP16 non-tensor performance is the same as FP32 performance. This lines up with desktop Ampere, but is different than Orin, which has double the FP16 performance to the FP32 performance. This indicates (as we will see further below), that Drake's tensor cores are the same "width" as desktop Ampere, not the double-rate tensor cores we see in Orin."
I add that if GA10F is 1 GPC then it is the 1 GPC of G102.
EDIT: The problem might not be the die size if the chip is clocked low, if the cost per transistor is worth it, they might go for it. 8 NM will be available after Nvidia moves GPUs to 5 NM. Low yields would be dealt with by releasing Nano Next and maybe binned SOC Lite model.
Simba1
Bob-omb
No one saying they will become Sony/MS and its not point about Switch brand or Nintendo identity (and they dont change "Switch" brand by adding letter in name), but about most practical and logical naming, very informative and clear without confusion.
Saying that Nintendo is losing identity by adding number in naming is quite reaching.
Nintendo before usually named their console based on concept, having on mind that main concept (hybrid) will be main thing even in next gen Switch,
Switch 2 naming has even more sense.
For MS would also be much better if they had number in naming, everything after 1st Xbox was from "not best naming" to bad, I mean, Xbox Series X and Xbox Serie S naming, after Xbox One, Xbox One S and Xbox One X, is terrible.
Sony (Playstation) has easily best naming, because it's very clear and simple.
I dont see any confusion with Switch 2 naming, Nintendo on reveal would provide every information needed, and on every game you will have for "Switch and Switch 2" or just for "Switch 2", Nintendo done before that with New 3DS, nothing new, other namings could actually make more confusion.
Also, saying that next gen hardware with naming Switch 2 would make confusion is not good argument in world where we have Wii and Wii U, or 3DS, 3DS XL, 2DS, New 3DS, New 3DS XL, New 2DS XL.
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This actually gives a lot
Xbox 2 vs PS3.
Xbox 3 vs PS4.
In retrospect, they should probably just have skipped a number and called 360 the Xbox 3. Like they skipped Windows 9.
MS were just to afraid of sounding like they were behind Sony.
Xbox 2 vs PS3.
Xbox 3 vs PS4.
In retrospect, they should probably just have skipped a number and called 360 the Xbox 3. Like they skipped Windows 9.
SiG
Chain Chomp
I do not think Nintendo necessarily follows "conventional wisdom", much less your definition of "logic".
I do not see them attempting to imitate Sony and Microsoft in branding/marketing. That is something most "gamers" (of the Sony/Microsoft variety) have been wanting Nintendo to do, to "get with the times" so to speak, even though their mindset is in the wrong place.
You are also assuming this next iteration or successor, should it retain the Switch branding, will not have any brand new hooks nor "gimmicks". I would suspect that if it does, the name will center around this differentiating factor.
Note that "Nintendo Switch OLED" pretty much highlighted the biggest change/upgrade in the iteration, with other features (new kickstand, better speakers, new dock with built-in ethernet) being tertiary.
I really doubt they will call it "Nintendo Switch 2" and cause more confusion, since the "Nintendo Switch OLED" and "Nintendo Switch Lite" might also be perceived as "Nintendo Switch 3 and 2", respectively.
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Simba1
Bob-omb
Agree, skiping number would be most smart for MS.
Saying that, Nintendo dont need to care abut that, Switch 2 would be mostly compared to Switch not to PS5.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Switch 2 will mostly be compared to PS2.
Nintendo is not Playstation. And that's a good thing.
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Interestingly DS Lite is actually the exception, the literal definition of Lite suggests it is limited or diminished compared to the real thing:This just isn't true. Lite means Light. All the name inherently implies is that it's a lighter, smaller Switch.
As far as I'm aware the DS Lite isn't missing anything, and it certainly had dual screens
Nintendo DS Lite - Wikipedia
Oh no! It’s 2017 all over again!
That’s why the name lite is attached to it:
Definition of LITE
light; diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness; specifically : being an innocuous or unthreatening version —often used postpositively… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
“diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness”
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