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Discussion Switch 2's DLSS implementation code has been stolen/leaked from NVidia

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There's been claims of a Switch Pro/Successor literally since launch

Speculation/wishlisting aren't claims. People talked a lot about a more powerful Switch because of the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X/New 3DS and assumed something similar would come for Switch. I don't remember any actual claims until the rumors of Mariko.
 
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Oh yeah, of course. Those bits will be inevitably stripped out, just like how the A53 cores were stripped out of the Switch's Tegra X1 variant; but in terms of the parts that actually matter (Cuda cores, RAM size, memory bandwidth etc), I would expect the T239 to match or exceed what we're seeing with T234.
the TX1 isn't exactly the same. the A53 are still in the chip, just fused off. here, the automotive parts won't be there from the start, hence why there's a different designation
 
Can you link it real quick? or at least the part in the Hardware OT.

If it's legitimate I'd like to read it.
I have no idea where to find the entire leak (and I'm not sure I'd want to, legally speaking), but here's the source article with one image:


Here's a Twitter thread with someone discussing stuff in the leak:



Oh yeah, of course. Those bits will be inevitably stripped out, just like how the A53 cores were stripped out of the Switch's Tegra X1 variant; but in terms of the parts that actually matter (Cuda cores, RAM size, memory bandwidth etc), I would expect the T239 to match or exceed what we're seeing with T234.
IIRC the A53s were never actually removed, just deactivated.

But again I think the amount of SMs and CPU cores and all that on Orin NX would make it a bit too power hungry. If they're already redesigning it to get rid of the automotive stuff it's likely they'll make some further adjustments.
 
IIRC the A53s were never actually removed, just deactivated.

But again I think the amount of SMs and CPU cores and all that on Orin NX would make it a bit too power hungry. If they're already redesigning it to get rid of the automotive stuff it's likely they'll make some further adjustments.

Yes, true, but signs point towards this being a much more customised chip than the quick n' dirty NVidia Shield Tablet SOC rebrand that the original Switch's TX1 was.

10w/15w is what the Version 1 OG Switch was pulling from the battery in Handheld and from wall in Docked Mode, both of which are within the lower bounds of Orin NX's spec; so it's not impossible to come close or even match that, especially if the unneccessary guff gets removed from it (and especially if Nintendo can take advantage of NVidia's upcoming 5nm production capacity)
 
So what are we thinking?

- Announcement before E3, E3 is software blowout?
- E3 shows a bunch of games looking/performing shockingly well, hardware announcement in July?
- FamiBoards user Derachi crumbling into dust as more and more time passes without a more performant Switch unit?
This year is pretty packed, so I could see it going one of two ways:
  1. It was Switch Pro all along, and therefore has some late 2022/early 2023 release to be marketed as improving key software.
  2. It's Switch 2, and we likely won't see a reveal till next year for a late 2023/2024 release.
It's nice to see the information we had on hardware capability was on the money though.
 
Manufacturing wouldn't have started yet. There's still plenty of time for a move to a smaller process if they did start on 8nm.
Its not that simple, that means they have to redesign the entire chip. Once you commit to a process node, you stick to it unless you have a very good reason.
 
Its not that simple, that means they have to redesign the entire chip. Once you commit to a process node, you stick to it unless you have a very good reason.
We don't know when they started on 8nm. For all we know, they've already moved onto 5nm by this point; hell, "Dane" could've been the 8nm version while "Drake" is the 5nm variant!

And in the case of designing a performant handheld that requires less battery power? They do indeed have a very good reason to use the smallest process node possible.
 
I think it'll be March 2023. I guess with BotW2. Holiday this year has enough games to satisfy without BotW2, and then they'll probably just want to try to repeat Switch 1-esque launch in March I think.
Imo they will release it this year even if BotW 2 is March next year

BotW 2 will still be part of the hype cycle for the new revision, while the revision can be used to push sales for games releasing this year
 
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Please show me some receipts then of anyone who we talk about here as having credibility claiming one was coming in 2020. Or in 2018 even.
Pretty much all the claims from credible sources have been wrong so far but the “Switch Pro” has existed in this realm between some truth and mostly fan speculation for awhile


But no shit Nvidia is helping Nintendo make better hardware. Is it coming out a year while they’re continually advertising their more premium OLED model? Probably not
 
Manufacturing wouldn't have started yet. There's still plenty of time for a move to a smaller process if they did start on 8nm.
It's not just designing it on a different node, these foundries secure raw semiconductor material from suppliers and allocate certain amounts of them to certain process nodes. Nintendo/Nvidia would have committed years ago to using a percentage of Samsung's 8nm allocation, they can't easily back out of that commitment without paying a lot of money to Samsung to make up for it.
 
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Pretty much all the claims from credible sources have been wrong so far but the “Switch Pro” has existed in this realm between some truth and mostly fan speculation for awhile


But no shit Nvidia is helping Nintendo make better hardware. Is it coming out a year while they’re continually advertising their more premium OLED model? Probably not
I didn't ask you if random forumgoers like us ever claimed/wanted/expected a "Switch Pro" in those years.

I asked you (and Kano) where on earth the idea that Bloomberg/Nate/Grubb/Nikkei et al. claimed a "Switch Pro" was coming in 2020 came from. That never happened.



There's a difference between idle speculation and discussion and actual reports from actual insiders who have track records. You and others are referring to the former as why you're tired of this discussion, which is fair, but we are often mainly referring to the latter.
 
Pretty much all the claims from credible sources have been wrong so far but the “Switch Pro” has existed in this realm between some truth and mostly fan speculation for awhile


But no shit Nvidia is helping Nintendo make better hardware. Is it coming out a year while they’re continually advertising their more premium OLED model? Probably not

Sourcing a random resetera user creating a thread that starts with the premise of not having any inside info is not a great sourcing here.
 
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In 2020 we had a half a year long Switch Mini rumors and leaks. Nobody talked about any Pro. It was all about Mini.
 
Releasing end of 2022 does not make sense. A new console means $350~$400 investment, money that could very well spent to buy pokemon and any other holiday game or switch console, plus losing money since margins of the new console < margins for selling switch systems.

A february 2023 reveal and a Q3 launch makes more sense tbh. Please remember Mario kart 8dx will have support all the way up to 2023, so no room for MK9, the biggest Nintendo IP.
 
Releasing end of 2022 does not make sense. A new console means $350~$400 investment, money that could very well spent to buy pokemon and any other holiday game or switch console, plus losing money since margins of the new console < margins for selling switch systems.

A february 2023 reveal and a Q3 launch makes more sense tbh. Please remember Mario kart 8dx will have support all the way up to 2023, so no room for MK9, the biggest Nintendo IP.
On the contrary, consoles and revisions launch with lots of games because people who buy them at launch (i.e. enthusiasts) are the ones who spend a lot of money on games, and are more likely to spend more money on new games for their new hardware at launch than they would without new hardware.
 
On the contrary, consoles and revisions launch with lots of games because people who buy them at launch (i.e. enthusiasts) are the ones who spend a lot of money on games, and are more likely to spend more money on new games for their new hardware at launch than they would without new hardware.
I know for certain this will be me in the holiday if it comes to pass. 4K and better framerates will revitalize the console for me - and I can’t be alone here.
 
Screenshot_20220301-211246_Twitter.jpg

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That 2018 Resetera thread about a "Switch Pro" is literally just a user speculating that the Switch devkit which had more RAM in it could be repurposed as an enhanced Switch.
That isn't on the same level as Bloomberg's reporting of 11 companies, the AI upscaling patents by NERD, this leak, etc.
Bloomberg and Nate are sharing what's been told to them by developers, their reporting of a 4K DLSS Switch isn't speculation. Them trying to figure out the pro model/new generation, release date, launch window titles, etc. is speculation.
I wish we could stop equivocating Bloomberg's reporting with some random Twitter "insider".
But of course, maybe only Waddle Dee Knows O_O
 
I know for certain this will be me in the holiday if it comes to pass. 4K and better framerates will revitalize the console for me - and I can’t be alone here.
Same! How many times do new consoles come out, and people make lists of all the new games and accessories they will buy for it!

People that buy a new console will also buy the new Pokémon, and a new case, and new battery pack with the new logo on it, and all manner of games they want or have been waiting to get.
 
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This will probably be very expansive, probably $450 at launch , Wich is another case for it releasing very soon , since this price won't be as acceptable if it's releasing late 2023 or 2024, it also explain the existance of an Oled model, a good option for fans that aren't ready to pay for an expansive revision but also want a console less dated than the original Switch

also I always thought a Switch Pro is releasing soon because it make sense for Nintendo to use big game like BotW 2 to push new hardware
 
also I always thought a Switch Pro is releasing soon because it make sense for Nintendo to use big game like BotW 2 to push new hardware
I think Nintendo knows now that they need strong software to sell new hardware, but they are in the good position of having a very strong back catalogue that benefits from new hardware, a strong upcoming game schedule, as well as a lot of people looking to replace ageing hardware with something new.

So really they can enjoy the best of both worlds.
 
This will probably be very expansive, probably $450 at launch , Wich is another case for it releasing very soon , since this price won't be as acceptable if it's releasing late 2023 or 2024, it also explain the existance of an Oled model, a good option for fans that aren't ready to pay for an expansive revision but also want a console less dated than the original Switch

also I always thought a Switch Pro is releasing soon because it make sense for Nintendo to use big game like BotW 2 to push new hardware

Considering Nintendo's target audience, and cost of entry being usually important for them, I think that would be a mistake. Affordability - for a game console - is a draw, including enthusiasts not just families (myself for example). I am back and forth on cancelling my SteamDeck because 500 is a tough pill to swallow.

Due to the price, my wife and daughter also have Switches.
 
If that was gonna happen, it would've already have been announced by now.

No console has ever been announced with less than 1.5 years of lead-time before launch (in fact, the Wii U is the only one which had such a short announcement to release window; and look at how that turned out!). You need time for developers to start preparing games for the platform, time for retailers and other partners to buy-in with the console etc.

Game consoles aren't smartphones, they can't just be thrown out into the world on a whim because of how many different developers and partners need to be involved.

Even a March 2023 release would be a history-first for how tight the window is... Nintendo are very very late with this successor announcement in general.
3DS was announced in March 2010 and released in February 2011.

And the “games consoles aren’t smartphones“ thing is silly. The internet and particularly the iPhone has changed the game on how announcement cycles are done these days, even if it’s not technically the same product category.

I guarantee you whenever the next Switch is announced, the cycle will go press release at an investor briefing saying “next generation Nintendo Switch to be released this fiscal year” -> formal unveil and release within that year. That’s exactly what happened with 3DS, and heck Switch basically had that if you discount the panic announcement they made alongside the DeNA mobile partnership. They went from being completely MIA after the initial announcement until April 2016 where they said NX would come in March.
 
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Considering Nintendo's target audience, and cost of entry being usually important for them, I think that would be a mistake. Affordability - for a game console - is a draw, including enthusiasts not just families (myself for example). I am back and forth on cancelling my SteamDeck because 500 is a tough pill to swallow.

Due to the price, my wife and daughter also have Switches.
I think the price increase between the Original Switch and Oled heavily suggest this will at least have $100 increase in price compared to Oled

it will probably sell well with that price too, especially with the lineup of games Nintendo is using to push it

but it's very expansive I agree
 
If it does come out say late this year, is the consensus that Switch isn't getting replaced by the new model for at least the next three years? I just got an OLED...
What do you mean by "replace"? Certainly not everybody is going to stop making games for the 100+ million userbase of the original soon.
 
Zelda? Metroid? Stop with these ridiculous suggestions for Switch 2 launch titles.

It’ll obviously launch with Pikmin.

 
I think the price increase between the Original Switch and Oled heavily suggest this will at least have $100 increase in price compared to Oled

it will probably sell well with that price too, especially with the lineup of games Nintendo is using to push it

but it's very expansive I agree
Its not as if there isn't a lot of choice: this new Switch for $400/$450, the OLED for $350, Switch for $299, and the Lite for $199.

That's a lot of entry points for a lot of different people and situations.
 
I think the price increase between the Original Switch and Oled heavily suggest this will at least have $100 increase in price compared to Oled

it will probably sell well with that price too, especially with the lineup of games Nintendo is using to push it

but it's very expansive I agree
My issue with $450 is that it prices out families which is their target and they always say that they aim for multiple devices per household, which is a true thing. Every one of us in my home has their own 3DS and their own switch. Because they are portable devices.

I think 400 would have to be the top which is the cost of the lowest priced SteamDeck and I think if they do go that high they need to come out of the gate with more than one model. The premium $400 model and a light model . Or a regular 1080p model and 4K model.
 
I honestly think y'all are looking at information that is now outdated that was leaked.

And there's new, updated info that has NOT leaked. All I'm saying.

If it somehow drops this year? Cool. OLED owners should be a little annoyed at that fact imo. So far Nintendo has set the precedent for new releases every other year.
I'm an OLED owner
I would have bought New hardware the DAY after I bought OLED if it was announced

New hardware is new hardware
there will always be new hardware after the last hardware.
 
My issue with $450 is that it prices out families which is their target and they always say that they aim for multiple devices per household, which is a true thing. Every one of us in my home has their own 3DS and their own switch. Because they are portable devices.

I think 400 would have to be the top which is the cost of the lowest priced SteamDeck and I think if they do go that high they need to come out of the gate with more than one model. The premium $400 model and a light model . Or a regular 1080p model and 4K model.
But a family can just buy an OLED for $350 or and OG for $299, its not as if those consoles are going away.

There won't be any issues with selling a $400/$450 Switch as long as it has the "oomph" that people want.
 
I just want to know if the specs are good for a 2023/24 release
Docked it'll be ~PS4 level with a CPU somewhere between PS4 and PS5. Handheld it'll be anywhere from like ~75% of XB1 level to ~about XB1 level. CPU should be the same in both cases.
 
Zelda? Metroid? Stop with these ridiculous suggestions for Switch 2 launch titles.

It’ll obviously launch with Pikmin.

Alph’s ship is called S.S. Drake. It was staring us in the face the whole time.
 
Docked it'll be ~PS4 level with a CPU somewhere between PS4 and PS5. Handheld it'll be anywhere from like ~75% of XB1 level to ~about XB1 level. CPU should be the same in both cases.

That + the resolution bump from DLSS, right?
 
I wish this leak meant that I could ignore my NDAs. Sadly, it does not.
FYI acknowledging the existence of an NDA is sometimes a breach of NDA, so make sure if you have one it doesn't stipulate that.
That + the resolution bump from DLSS, right?
Yeah, depends on how DLSS will be used for each game. I don't like to speculate on how games will use it or how many games will even use it.
 
FYI acknowledging the existence of an NDA is sometimes a breach of NDA, so make sure if you have one it doesn't stipulate that.
Nah, I'm fine on that front. I can mention when I'm constrained by NDA, I just can't show the document publicly or to unauthorized parties. I am aware of ones that do stipulate that though.
 
Gosh, interesting from a technical side to see this popping up, but really iffy because it's stolen information...

I'm still on the Bloomberg/Nate 2022-2023 train. Bloomberg obviously had some wires crossed with SwOLED and SwitchFourK but otherwise they're just about as reputable as it gets.

Very curious how the NVN version of DLSS will work. I recall a Digital Foundry video on the subject which implied that 4k60 with DLSS on the Switch SOC's wattage isn't a given at all. Also I don't expect much in the way of ray tracing.
 
FYI acknowledging the existence of an NDA is sometimes a breach of NDA, so make sure if you have one it doesn't stipulate that.

Yeah, depends on how DLSS will be used for each game. I don't like to speculate on how games will use it or how many games will even use it.
I think it’s safe to assume most enhanced games will use DLSS considering it sounds like one of the key features and main selling points.
 
I think it’s safe to assume most enhanced games will use DLSS considering it sounds like one of the key features and main selling points.
"Most" is a strong word here, the Switch has like 7000 games. And DLSS requires major modifications to the game and in some cases the engine. It's absolutely not a given for most games.

I'd guess less than 1% of existing games will be patched to add DLSS.


EDIT: Whoops, I no read good
 
Yeah, depends on how DLSS will be used for each game. I don't like to speculate on how games will use it or how many games will even use it.
My prediction is for first party games DLSS will bring the resolution to the max on docked and handheld modes with the best possible framerate. For third party games DLSS probably will be used to free up as much CPU and RAM as possible to have the game running on the system. "Miracle ports" might not be native even with DLSS.
 
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