PixelKnight
Observing the process
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Xbox Xbox is failing so horribly, its kind of unbelievable
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PixelKnight
Observing the process
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Thread reopened.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
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Saying that MS has absolutely nothing to show first party wise over the last three years is just not true.
They need to market their games better, they need more high profile releases and they absolutely need to sort out their management structure and development pipelines, but to say they have nothing is just not true.
Hi Fi Rush: So far, this is the surprise hit of the year. It's a new IP, the gameplay is fantastic and the presentation is slick as anything
Pentiment: Yes, it's a smaller release, but it's also incredibly unique and already well loved by the people who've played it
Gears Tactics: a surprisingly strong entry into the tactics genre with a coat of Gears paint.
Gears Hivebusters: No it doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it's by all accounts a fun entry in the Gears series that does what it sets out to do well
Flight Sim: This game is frankly mind boggling. They made it possible to fly all the way around the world using satellite data. It's mind boggling in scope, and also a high bar for graphical presentation.
Forza Horizon: no explanation needed
Do they need to be more consistent in their publishing efforts? Yes. Do they need to market their games better so they stand out to people? Yes.
Have they published nothing of note in the last three years? No.
They need to market their games better, they need more high profile releases and they absolutely need to sort out their management structure and development pipelines, but to say they have nothing is just not true.
Hi Fi Rush: So far, this is the surprise hit of the year. It's a new IP, the gameplay is fantastic and the presentation is slick as anything
Pentiment: Yes, it's a smaller release, but it's also incredibly unique and already well loved by the people who've played it
Gears Tactics: a surprisingly strong entry into the tactics genre with a coat of Gears paint.
Gears Hivebusters: No it doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it's by all accounts a fun entry in the Gears series that does what it sets out to do well
Flight Sim: This game is frankly mind boggling. They made it possible to fly all the way around the world using satellite data. It's mind boggling in scope, and also a high bar for graphical presentation.
Forza Horizon: no explanation needed
Do they need to be more consistent in their publishing efforts? Yes. Do they need to market their games better so they stand out to people? Yes.
Have they published nothing of note in the last three years? No.
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The hell happened in this thread while i was away? So many warnings!
I mean, they would be a horrible software publisher because they don't release games often enough. The only reason Xbox is profitable or bringing in revenue in general is because of the system sales and their 30% cut of third party sales. They don't release enough games to sustain themselves as a third party publisher. If the console goes away, so does the entire division as a whole.
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I doubt that; Microsoft own Minecraft, after all, and with stuff like Flight Simulator, they've got excellent experience doing strong console/PC games.
Sure, you'd see some studios be sold off, and some painful downsizing (especially painful for the poor people down the line who end up paying for mistakes made higher up). But there'd still be money to be made as a multi-platform publisher and, funnily enough, Microsoft have more experience there than either Nintendo or Sony. On top of that, they have brands - Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Wolfenstein - that are established on PC and PS; and which have even been present on Switch.
The big question is whether they'd give up on Game Pass, or go PC/mobile Game Pass, and what happens to third party titles being on Game Pass. That's meant to be the future of gaming, if Microsoft get their way; the console is only part of that.
stodesign12
Bob-omb
I think that evolving the "Xbox" name into a brand that now includes PC, Cloud and Gamepass wasn't a great idea.
In fact, now we have the concept of "Gamepass game", which means a short game you can beat in a few hours and mid tier or old AAA games, and that's a nice bonus, but those definitions aren't helping them and can't be the core of the Xbox ecosystem.
Xbox needs to be identified as a high quality gaming brand again, and Gamepass should be a separate optional thing just to increase value.
In fact, now we have the concept of "Gamepass game", which means a short game you can beat in a few hours and mid tier or old AAA games, and that's a nice bonus, but those definitions aren't helping them and can't be the core of the Xbox ecosystem.
Xbox needs to be identified as a high quality gaming brand again, and Gamepass should be a separate optional thing just to increase value.
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I don't think Redfall was forced onto Arkane by Microsoft. It started development before Beth was acquired and even had a PS5 version which then was cancelled. It feels more like the kind of product they had to come up with due to increased financial pressure. Lots of that Arkane DNA buried within but it feels like they didn't really know how to pull off what they set out to do or just didn't get the necessary support for it. All of this resulting in a game that was pushed out the door the moment it was somewhat functional because... I guess they needed something to come out during this quarter? I don't really get it.
PandaAndino
Tektite
got a ps5, happy user for 2 days, then everything goes wrong. Got my series x, is the same but i actually have a edrums and race wheel so I have a use for the device. My conclusion.. western games are bad, generic, implanted in our memory. Thats why xbox is the least interesting for people who has been playing for more than 20 years, western games does nothing to us.
If devs are to be believed they have enough liberty, because all I've been reading the past few years is that xbox is very hands off.
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SeafoamGaming
Moblin
Edit: aaaaaaaaggh i posted in wrong thread
I guess to be topical though it is weird/sad that in the end the only first party MS thing to be taken semi-well this year is a port of goldeneye lol (and hi fi rush)
I guess to be topical though it is weird/sad that in the end the only first party MS thing to be taken semi-well this year is a port of goldeneye lol (and hi fi rush)
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Imagine how much worse RF would have been if it had stayed cross platform and has been sent out to die 9 months ago as was the original plan.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
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Hi Fi Rush: Am I a joke to you?
SeafoamGaming
Moblin
I… I already forgot that came out this year. I keep thinking it was a december release or something
I still need to play it. No physical version is madness though
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I am now wondering what state the game was in when Microsoft bought Bethesda. They announced it shortly after the acquisition with a release date so they must have felt at least somewhat confident that they can make it.
Lugia667
Gerudo
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I often wonder how true it is whenever it's said that "This is the game the studio wanted to make". It seems like a new publisher tactic to try to avoid blame
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I'm sure the vertical slice looked incredible. Borderlands looter shooter structure + Arkane gunplay + vampires? I'm sure Microsoft thought they had the next big bit on their hands.
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Just to inject a little positivity into this thread: I love my Series S! And the backward compatibility and the great apps.
It may be tough to look forward to it in the wake of Redfall, but I’m still excited to watch their June event where they hopefully, please God, have something coming up in the relative near future to talk about. It would be great to hear about Fable or Indiana Jones or any of the other potentially great projects that have been cooking forever!
It may be tough to look forward to it in the wake of Redfall, but I’m still excited to watch their June event where they hopefully, please God, have something coming up in the relative near future to talk about. It would be great to hear about Fable or Indiana Jones or any of the other potentially great projects that have been cooking forever!
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Microsoft has definitely published some high-quality games recently and in the past few years. But it generally feels like their handling of projects and studios is all over the place. Hi Fi Rush succeeded, but is also a smaller game. Meanwhile, the issues with Halo Infinite are well documented and at this point 343 is a shell of itself after Microsoft's wider layoffs.
Redfall feels like a game that needed more time, and I mean a lot more time than just an extra three months for polish. But I guess it was get the game out now come hell or high water, because I can't imagine Arkane being at all happy with its launch state.
Redfall feels like a game that needed more time, and I mean a lot more time than just an extra three months for polish. But I guess it was get the game out now come hell or high water, because I can't imagine Arkane being at all happy with its launch state.
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Yeah we fully know that not to be the case at this point, its an uninformed or bad faith take to think otherwise.
Excited to get a chance to listen to Phil's KF Xcast appearance, he addresses that directly (beyond the obvious) from the snips I've seen.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
That's a weird part, honestly. Like he claims the mock reviews conducted didn't score Redfall nearly so low despite the prevalence of bugs and gameplay issues. If he's to be believed, he genuinely thought they had a winner on their hands when it went out the door.
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Interesting. You may know better than I as I have only seen snippets, but the part I saw was him saying internal reviews had it scoring "double digits" higher... so based on the current average that would mean around a 69. Not so much a winner, but not a complete stinker.
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After 3-4 hours with Redfall I would be very surprised if mock reviews turned out to be positive. In my experience with it, seemingly nothing about it turned out well. I feel like I could have told you after 20 minutes that something just isn’t right.
I don’t think Phil Spencer would ever say they knew the game was bad, but I have a feeling they did and weren’t convinced that another delay and a bunch more money was really going to make it much better. (This is obviously all hearsay I just feel it makes the most business sense for them)
I don’t think Phil Spencer would ever say they knew the game was bad, but I have a feeling they did and weren’t convinced that another delay and a bunch more money was really going to make it much better. (This is obviously all hearsay I just feel it makes the most business sense for them)
Switch X xbox is the best combination. (or pc)
People will buy PS5 because of the name and they are more familier with the controller that has not changed a lot compared to ps1 (layout) ,
but i don't see why anyone should buy it over a xbox console.
I'm not saying that Xbox didn't do a great job on those exclusives, but Xbox has Actionvision/Blizzard, Bethesda, Rare, Xcloud, streaming from your games console to Android device, etc.. is a much better pick imo.
People will buy PS5 because of the name and they are more familier with the controller that has not changed a lot compared to ps1 (layout) ,
but i don't see why anyone should buy it over a xbox console.
- Most Sony games are on pc
- Sony Splitted Dpad & Misplaced analog sticks. (they finally fixed the shape of the controller)
- Sony has not a lot of exclusive games atm for ps5 and they are already working on a pro model?
- It seems that games run worse on a ps5, but thats discussable.
I'm not saying that Xbox didn't do a great job on those exclusives, but Xbox has Actionvision/Blizzard, Bethesda, Rare, Xcloud, streaming from your games console to Android device, etc.. is a much better pick imo.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
- Most Microsoft games are on PC.
- How are the analog sticks misplaced other than you're not personally used to them?
- Microsoft has few exclusives and there are already two Series models.
- Your fourth point is one you already admit is subjective.
Yeah. The dualsense alone is why I buy third party games on Xbox
Haziqonfire
🇨🇦
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What if you’re like me and wants nothing to do with PC gaming? Xbox has virtually nothing appealing to me compared to the PS5, but it’s also subjective. Most people care about exclusives and what’s the next big game. Microsoft lacks a lot of games that are talked about widely outside of enthusiast gaming circles. That’s why more people buy a PlayStation — Microsoft doesn’t have a Last of Us or God of War anymore. They had Halo, which should be a premier gaming franchise, but Microsoft has almost destroyed it’s legacy.
This describes me and it's why I have an Xbox instead of playing on PC-- I gotta have that big OLED TV. The Last of Us and God of War are games I'd never want to play (unless I break out the ol PS2 for God of War)
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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Think the main issue with most of these games is that they're pretty niche, especially Hifi Rush and Pentiment
Didn't you hear? Xbox isn't getting Activision anymore, so that XCloud stuff isn't a good point lol
Also Japanese games usually skip Xbox entirely, or they come years late, unless they're a massive franchise, and even then. This is an absolute dealbreaker
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
Miss this website with that "lazy dev" bullshit
Linkstrikesback
Starman
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The Xbox platform is a complete non starter for me because somehow in 2023 the controller for the system doesn't even have a gyro sensor in it. That's a far far bigger issue than having to position your thumbs slightly differently.
Yep, thats true
The dpad is placed as main input. If you hold a controller without moving your tumbs, the natural position is on the dpad. While the most used input is analog stick. You can get used to them, but it wpuld never be as good as the position it has on xbox or nintendo (the traditional layout). And before you ask why the splitted dpad is a nightmare: with fightgames, im using the middle of my tumbfinger (as a whole) into the middle of the dpad to make turns. The benefit is that i dont repmace my finger on the dpad at all doing this.
From the start. The same issue could be if there would be a pro version. But i agree the issue is with xbox aswell. However, with those companies they bought, the have a much brighter future
So there are simular issues between the 2, but having xcloud/gamepass, bethesda, blizzard/ms and think its more safe to go with ms imo.
Not going to discuss the more, because i dont want that this thread become poison because of a xbox vs playstation war.
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
I mean, you were the one arguing Xbox is obviously superior despite most of your points ignoring the similarities between PlayStation and Xbox.
Also, Microsoft doesn’t own Blizzard yet and may never own them.
That's not exclusive to game devs. People are generally lazy and would slack off if given opportunity. After working 3 years in IT I learned the hard way and from other more experienced devs that the only prize for finishing tasks fast is more work. That's why Im taking everything slow now and log more hours. Seeing how hands off is MS I smell something familiar
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Here is a maybe not comprehensive but still fairly complete listing of what everyone under Microsoft Game Studios has going on:
EDIT: Holy crap I forgot to put id in there. Shameful
- Arkane — just released Redfall, next project unknown
- Bethesda — finishing up Starfield and probably there is a napkin in their office with a daedra drawn on it for Elder Scrolls VI
- The Coalition — current project unknown, rumoured to be a new IP
- Compulsion Games — finished We Happy Few + DLC pass, current project unannounced
- Double Fine — released Psychonauts 2 in 2021, current project unannounced
- The Initiative — developing Perfect Dark with Crystal Dynamics
- id Software —shipped Doom Eternal in 2020, finished Season Pass, current project unannounced
- inXile — shipped Wasteland 3 in 2020, currently working on Project Cobalt, a first-person RPG with a Victorian steampunk setting
- Machine Games — currently making an Indiana Jones game, with perhaps a new Wolfenstein after that (though I hope it’s Quake)
- Mojang — released Minecraft Legends just last month
- Ninja Theory — Hellblade II announced at Game Awards 2019, still in development
- Obsidian — Grounded still being supported, recently released Pentiment, Avowed in development , also Outer Worlds 2
- Playground Games — released Forza Horizon 5 in 2021, Fable in development
- Rare — ongoing support for Sea of Thieves, working on Everwild
- Tango Gameworks — released Hi-Fi Rush in January, next project unannounced
- Turn 10 — making a new Forza Motorsport, ‘natch
- Undead Labs — after a CG trailer years ago, still working on State of Decay 3
- World’s Edge — bringing Age of Empires IV to Xbox this year
- ZeniMax Online — Elder Scrolls online all day, baby
EDIT: Holy crap I forgot to put id in there. Shameful
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D
Deleted member 2
Guest
Just because you admit you're a shitty dev doesn't mean you know the processes and methodologies of giant megacorporation dev teams lolThat's not exclusive to game devs. People are generally lazy and would slack off if given opportunity. After working 3 years in IT I learned the hard way and from other more experienced devs that the only prize for finishing tasks fast is more work. That's why Im taking everything slow now and log more hours. Seeing how hands off is MS I smell something familiar
Like I said, miss this whole website with that lazy dev bullshit. You already got a warning
Bulgowski
Piranha Plant
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Just thought I'd add that Obsidian is also working on The Outer Worlds 2
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
It is kind of weird that Microsoft now owns Fallout, and two franchises (Wasteland and The Outer Worlds) heavily related to or inspired by Fallout.
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Having an "Xbox" at this point doesn't just mean an Xbox console.
PC is Xbox at this point, as the games are 1:1 day and date. PC has some of Sony, delayed and where it makes sense.
Same reason why console sales numbers conversation are often times really off base.
PC is Xbox at this point, as the games are 1:1 day and date. PC has some of Sony, delayed and where it makes sense.
Same reason why console sales numbers conversation are often times really off base.
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Oh yeah! I added it in there, thanks
King Crono
The Chronologist
My PS5 is a Genshin Impact machine…exclusives have been not been as great as people say IMO. They are good, but I always lose interest for other games.
Series X has been my main home console for 3rd party. Gamepass is just too good and I get MS reward points (that pays for a large portion of my Gamepass) by playing on XBox instead of PS5.
Switch is my home console for Nintendo games, and portable device for 3rd party games.
Series X has been my main home console for 3rd party. Gamepass is just too good and I get MS reward points (that pays for a large portion of my Gamepass) by playing on XBox instead of PS5.
Switch is my home console for Nintendo games, and portable device for 3rd party games.
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Mekanos
YOU は SHOCK
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Yeah the era of Sony and MS publishing games on PC muddles things a bit…it also brought forth more people asking for Nintendo to put their games on PC lol
Nintendo is the last holdout on keeping players in their console ecosystem and I can’t say it hasn’t worked. As long as I have an even remote interest in video games I will keep buying Nintendo consoles.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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???That's not exclusive to game devs. People are generally lazy and would slack off if given opportunity. After working 3 years in IT I learned the hard way and from other more experienced devs that the only prize for finishing tasks fast is more work. That's why Im taking everything slow now and log more hours. Seeing how hands off is MS I smell something familiar
What you described is you slacking off because your job punishes hard workers. This is not an example of people slacking off if given the chance, that's you learning that laziness is rewarded in a system that is, by design, anti-worker.
Johna X
Boo
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I don't know I still think back quite easily to elementary school to early middle school when some used "Xbox" as colloquial for video game in a way almost reminscent of the 80s and Nintendo, obviously less so but many boomer adults at my school did, I feel it still has some power I mean middle school for me was early xbone it wasn't just 360 era
Mekanos
YOU は SHOCK
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Hope you realize you’ve just aged 85% of active users on this site with this statement
Including me
Johna X
Boo
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Source for Rare? Not sure that happened if so when, like I do know above all else as a bit of a BK history follower that NB was very much the actual team's idea, partly inspired by Live and Reloaded's reception (since it was once a meta-remake), and I've seen many claims the Kinect stuff was Rare's choice but I have less history on that, I'm guessing if anything you mean that but idk, cause everything I've heard over the years suggests Rare chose much of what it did, which is how the claims of Nintendo losing them not mattering get spread (though I think it's important to keep in mind how many DK products they were working on that to me suggest not only it threw them off balance but that they had bigger plans, Rare was always wanting to do new things to a degree but if nintendo bought them and didn't take control i still think DK would have stayed relevant as the thing they don't decide to move on from despite everything else)
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Johna X
Boo
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I'm turning 21 in 2 weeks if it makes feel better maybe like I'm not literally a child, I'm aware the forum culture leans older but I don't know felt like joining here and I've been to Bulbagarden (maybe doesn't lean as old idk)
In terms of statement just anecdotal, everyone here seems to agree 360 was big time for the company anyway I guess I'm just arguing the momentum of that carried for enough to make me feel the name Xbox isn't worth sacrificing but I'm maybe biased due to aformentioned point in life making it feel more influential, I don't think I dealt with any of the "nintendo for babies" stuff GCN era is associated with I def felt my school district was always xbox biased perhaps even beyond just not nintendo like even more xbox then sony it felt despite sales data during PS4 Xbone
Johna X
Boo
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Phil and Reggie give off somewhat similar vibes (except Phil doesn't lean into memes even close to as much) the big difference that makes it interesting is Phil has actual power, Reggie was kind of just a figure head
Phil32
Superhero
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Since owning my Xbox Series S, I've been able to enjoy a good number of games, and not just through Game Pass. I've absolutely loved some of the first-party stuff on there like Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon 5, Grounded, and even some of Halo Infinite. I still need to try out Hi-Fi Rush despite owning it since launch. ha
Regardless, the past two years have been a bit of a downer as someone yearning for steady quality content from Xbox. Do I think Xbox's first-party is bad? No. But I think it could be much better and offer regular quality as good as 2021 (I think that was the year Psychonauts 2 and Forza came out).
As it stands, currently my PS5 and Switch see way more gaming action nowadays, which is a bit of a bummer to me, but I'm sure that can change someday.
Regardless, the past two years have been a bit of a downer as someone yearning for steady quality content from Xbox. Do I think Xbox's first-party is bad? No. But I think it could be much better and offer regular quality as good as 2021 (I think that was the year Psychonauts 2 and Forza came out).
As it stands, currently my PS5 and Switch see way more gaming action nowadays, which is a bit of a bummer to me, but I'm sure that can change someday.
