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Discussion Which games genres not yet represented should be represented in the next smash bros with a playable character.

crashazo said:
Exactly.
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Sadly I worry that as long as online play has lag, we’ll never get a proper rhythm-based fighter in Smash. I’m pretty sure that’s likely the reason why the Rhythm Heaven fighter (known to be specifically Chorus Kids from the Gematsu leak) was scrapped in Smash for 3DS/Wii U in the first place (timed inputs combined with musical cues would fall out of sync with online lag, making a rhythm-based fighter practically unplayable), and why Sakurai didn’t return to the concept in Ultimate despite reviving other originally planned content like Chrom (was seemingly initially planned for 3DS/Wii U before Robin replaced him), Swapnote/Nikki (datamines show that a Swapnote stage was planned for 3DS/Wii U but was scrapped, possibly being turned into PictoChat 2 instead), Sukapon (was planned to be an item in Melee), and Ditto (was planned to be a Poké Ball Pokémon in Melee, and was partially implemented before being cut).
 
I was going to say puzzle games, until I remembered Dr. Mario. Though that's just a variation of Mario, so should he even count?

My pick goes to Lip from Panel de Pon:

a43ea7c8477f4a7edb54d987270f1a80.jpg


Her item has been a part of Smash Bros. for decades now, and she has had Mii costume and Spirit representation. I think it's her time to be an actual fighter. It'd be interesting to see match-3 gameplay incorporated in her moveset.
 
Joe said:
I was going to say puzzle games, until I remembered Dr. Mario. Though that's just a variation of Mario, so should he even count?

My pick goes to Lip from Panel de Pon:

a43ea7c8477f4a7edb54d987270f1a80.jpg


Her item has been a part of Smash Bros. for decades now, and she has had Mii costume and Spirit representation. I think it's her time to be an actual fighter. It'd be interesting to see match-3 gameplay incorporated in her moveset.
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I think that dr mario doesn't count.
 
Rhythm games could be represented by the HiFi Rush protagonist?

And visual novels by Phoenix Wright?

—————

I don’t know if it’s a genre, but Hideo Kojima claims that the Death Stranding games are under the Social Strand Genre. Maybe Sam can represent that genre?
 
ziggyrivers said:
Rhythm games could be represented by the HiFi Rush protagonist?

And visual novels by Phoenix Wright?

—————

I don’t know if it’s a genre, but Hideo Kojima claims that the Death Stranding games are under the Social Strand Genre. Maybe Sam can represent that genre?
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I would like to add pikmin as his own genre.
 
I'm going to suggest horror as a candidate here, with Alexandra Roivas as its champion. (Yes, we're going to need Eternal Darkness brought back. And let's get a sequel wherein Alex here has a much more rad -- probably Gothic in style -- outfit, and she can wear that here.)

Most people are probably going to insist Resident Evil is the better, more obvious, choice -- and I do have to admit Jill Valentine summoning zombies and sometimes redeads would be kind of rad -- but Eternal Darkness also highlights Nintendo's own horror legacy, and I think that's a compelling reason to pull from their own library here.
 
Shumps have some pretty solid candidates: Reimu which was already suggested back in the day, but there's also Cotton and the PC Engine mascot which I forgot his name, but he is just as symbolic for Hudson as Bomberman. Cave made some really good designs in their days, but those will never be seriously considered.

Also Monokuma for the adventure genre. He can have a different Final Smash for each character.
 
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Jaina Proudmoore from Warcraft or Jim Raynor/Sarah Kerrigan from Starcraft for the RTS genre, I am not much of a fan of rhythm games so I guess I would piggyback off of others by suggesting Chorus kids, Solaire or Artorius from Dark Souls and Lip from Panel De Pon would be other choices, and this may be cheating but I would also choose Agrias Oaks from FFT or Marche from FFTA.

Edit: for a shooter I would probably pick one of the main three leaders from Destiny even though one of their voice actors sadly passed away.
 
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OctoSplattack said:
Rhythm games. Also adventure and visual novel.
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An excellent first selection.

Tye said:
It’s way past time for a rhythm game fighter. Give us Chorus Kids already!!
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Pillydillsy said:
Rhythm games, we need a rhythm heaven character ASAP
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I was thinking Barista (a taunt causes adjacent fighters to stop and pet the dog) which would be a bit of a swerve from the expected, but Chorus Kids could definitely be neat.

ziggyrivers said:
Rhythm games could be represented by the HiFi Rush protagonist?

And visual novels by Phoenix Wright?
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Phoenix Wright has always been an inspired and fitting option, but Sakurai's choice that never actually made it into Melee was Ayumi Tachibana, and I really like that idea. But also Goku from Yūyūki.

For rhythm, I'm going to have to agree with the general concensus that Rhythm Heaven is the way to go. Alternatively, we've got Donkey Kong.


Joe said:
I was going to say puzzle games, until I remembered Dr. Mario. Though that's just a variation of Mario, so should he even count?

My pick goes to Lip from Panel de Pon
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I figure Dr. Mario, especially as his own individual fighter, would count, but in my mind he can be absorbed into Mario as an alt. Lip is, as always, a great shout out.

Slam Tilt said:
I want to see Civilization represented by Ghandi.
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He doesn't hurt people until he hits 200% damage, and then suddenly he's dropping nukes and moons on fools.
 
Supreme Overlord said:
I was thinking Barista (a taunt causes adjacent fighters to stop and pet the dog) which would be a bit of a swerve from the expected, but Chorus Kids could definitely be neat.
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Chorus Kids was the specific Rhythm Heaven fighter named in the Gematsu leak, and makes a lot of sense being a musical trio that can naturally set up rhythm-based attacks with both musical and visual cues (for example, when you first use a move, the two following Chorus Kids would start the attack and establish the timing, and you have to press the button again in rhythm as the third, lead Chorus Kid for the move to reach its full potential) and generally being blank slates that you could use as a canvas to represent things from across the entire series—for example, I’ve always envisioned Chorus Kids being executed somewhat similarly to Mr. Game & Watch in that other Rhythm Heaven characters and objects would appear throughout their moveset, much like how Mr. Game & Watch is an amalgamation of many different things and characters from various Game & Watch games. So characters like Barista, Karate Joe, the Wandering Samurai, Ringside Wrestler, Yuka, etc. could all potentially appear in Chorus Kids’ moveset in one way or another. Plus it also helps that Chorus Kids are the mascot of the best-selling game in the series. So yeah, I think Chorus Kids would be the best choice for Smash, not just because they were the named Rhythm Heaven fighter that was originally going to be in Smash, but also because they just make a ton of sense mechanically and thematically, too.

…But, again, like I said earlier, we’re probably not going to get a proper rhythm game fighter in Smash (be it from Rhythm Heaven or otherwise) as long as online play exists and introduces lag, sadly.
 
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Hope this helps out with the variety that’s jam-packed in my alternate Smash timeline.

Starters:
Mario
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
Lark
Samus
Pit
Marth
Link
Fox
Kirby
Pikachu

Secrets:
Banjo & Kazooie
Takamaru
Captain Falcon
Sukapon
Lip
Mr. Sys

  • Kid Icarus is just as big as Metroid
  • Fire Emblem wasn't locked to Japan to begin with
  • Murasame Castle continued past the Famicom era and starts becoming localized afterwards Takamaru's inclusion here
  • There existed an action-packed F-Zero spin-off title similar to Bravoman where you play as Falcon outside the vehicle (the game was locked only to Japan)
  • Joy Mech Fight was a Super NES game not locked to Japan
  • Tetris Attack still releases as Panel de Pon outside of Japan

Starters:
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Diddy Kong
Zelda
King Dedede
Ryota Hayami
Tom Nook
Olimar

Secrets:
Conker
Ganondorf
Ridley
Meta Knight
Wolf
Sceptile
Lucas
Ayumi Tachibana
Mr. Game & Watch

  • Luigi is more loosely based on Luigi's Mansion
  • Peach would've started getting her own games earlier (in this timeline, she'd star as the protagonist in a GBA title and her moveset is from there)
  • MOTHER 64 wasn't delayed
  • Ayumi's inclusion here thus leads to more Detective Club games also being localized

Starters:
Dixie Kong
Palutena
Medusa
Lyn
Isaac
Andy
Starfy
Akari Hayami
Ashley Mizuki Robbins
Chibi-Robo
Mii

Secrets:
Tingle
Saki Amamiya
Kururin
DeMille
Ray Mk. III
Geolyte
R.O.B.
Sonic
Snake
Mega Man
Pac-Man

  • Kid Icarus Uprising was a early Wii Title (based on myths where there existed a Uprising prototype for Wii)
  • Nintendo had permission from Microsoft to still keep Banjo and Conker in the rosters

Starters:
Daisy
Captain Toad
Cranky Kong
Waddle Dee
Anna
Isabelle
Little Mac
Marshal
Style Savvist
Inkling

Secrets:
Waluigi
King K. Rool
Greninja
Shulk
Vince
Nester
Bayonetta
Ryu
Kazuya
Shovel Knight

DLC:
Qbby (May 2015)
Elma (December 2015)
Cloud (February 2016)
Simon (February 2016)

  • Daisy and Waluigi would've starred in their own spin-off games and their movesets are directly inspired from them

First Party:
Funky Kong
Eevee
Incineroar
Tiki
Octoling
Rex
Spring Man
Amelia

Third Party:
Dr. Eggman
Akuma
Monster Hunter
Haruka Amami
Sephiroth
Bomberman
Terry Bograd
Crash Bandicoot
Shantae
Doom Slayer

Fighter Pass 1 (2019):
Petey Piranha (alongside release date)
Arle Nadja (May 2019)
Crono (E3 2019)
Rayman (E3 2019)
Yooka & Laylee (E3 2019)
Sans (September 2019)
Agumon (December 2019)

Fighter Pass 2 (2020 - 2021):
King Boo (March 2020)
Lloyd Irving (June 2020)
Steve (October 2020)
Scorpion (December 2020)
Akira Howard (February 2021)
Phoenix Wright (E3 2021)
Klonoa (October 2021)

Fighter Pass 3 (2022 - 2023):
Reimu Hakurei (May 2022)
Noah (September 2022)
Travis Touchdown (December 2022)
Alear (February 2023)
Veyle (March 2023)
Geno (June 2023)
Freddy Fazbear (October 2023)
Sora (December 2023)

  • Geno, Alear, Veyle (who is thrown in as a little joke character), and Noah all would've had sudden surprise announcements in their respective Nintendo Directs
 
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Tye said:
Sadly I worry that as long as online play has lag, we’ll never get a proper rhythm-based fighter in Smash. I’m pretty sure that’s likely the reason why the Rhythm Heaven fighter (known to be specifically Chorus Kids from the Gematsu leak) was scrapped in Smash for 3DS/Wii U in the first place (timed inputs combined with musical cues would fall out of sync with online lag, making a rhythm-based fighter practically unplayable), and why Sakurai didn’t return to the concept in Ultimate despite reviving other originally planned content like Chrom (was seemingly initially planned for 3DS/Wii U before Robin replaced him), Swapnote/Nikki (datamines show that a Swapnote stage was planned for 3DS/Wii U but was scrapped, possibly being turned into PictoChat 2 instead), Sukapon (was planned to be an item in Melee), and Ditto (was planned to be a Poké Ball Pokémon in Melee, and was partially implemented before being cut).
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A rhythm based character can work as long as the online isn't terrible, but this is Namco we're talking about. I mean, look at Dee Jay in SF6. His rhythm super works even online cause the whole game plays well online. Smash Ultimate doesn't. It's not synced up to the actual stage music, but honestly I think that's smarter so you don't get counterpicked to a stage with a 200bpm song. You can make a character rhythmic without actually making them play a rhythm game. Think less Hi-Fi Rush and more Incineroar side b having consistent timing that the player learns.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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Koei Tecmo is perhaps one of Nintendo's biggest regular supporters/collaborators that has yet to get playable representation in Smash, yet. How would I do it?

Historical-based grand strategy games has been Koei's trademark for over 40 years. That catalog likely helped them, at least in part, get that sweetheart deal to work on Nintendo's longrunning strategy series, Fire Emblem. So, I'd choose their take on Nobunaga as the way to rep both the titular Nobunaga's Ambition, as well as everything else that spun off from that (Samurai Warriors, Pokémon Conquest, etc.)

I know Ryu Hayabusa from the Tecmo side of things (Ninja Gaiden) is by far the more popular pick, and honestly hope he gets in, too. But I do think it'd be miss if you didn't let Nobunaga duel with fellow strategy game oldhead Marth, and pal around with Pikachu again.
 
JazzyFuture said:
A rhythm based character can work as long as the online isn't terrible, but this is Namco we're talking about. I mean, look at Dee Jay in SF6. His rhythm super works even online cause the whole game plays well online. Smash Ultimate doesn't. It's not synced up to the actual stage music, but honestly I think that's smarter so you don't get counterpicked to a stage with a 200bpm song. You can make a character rhythmic without actually making them play a rhythm game. Think less Hi-Fi Rush and more Incineroar side b having consistent timing that the player learns.
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Even the slightest bit of lag would cause issues, though. It already does with Incineroar’s side special, and it would be much worse with a fighter whose moveset is entirely based around rhythm, especially if there’s an actual musical element to it, too. And no, I don’t mean that the moves would be synced to the stage music—that’s way too elaborate and impractical to implement.

The way I’ve always envisioned Chorus Kids working, and the way that naturally just makes sense for them, is for their moveset to have timing-based moves that are accompanied with (and initiated by) musical sound effects. For example, let’s say their neutral special is Glee Club, where the two hind Chorus Kids start the move by singing “AAAAAAAA~, AAAAAAAA~” and prompting the player to press the button again at the right time to execute a perfect third “AAAAAAAA~” from the lead Chorus Kid. Most of their moves, or at least their special moves for sure, would likely be like this to some degree, with musical cues via sound effects that prompt an input with the right timing.

Problem is, if you take that online where even the slightest bit of lag is introduced, then the sound effects will fall out of sync with the gameplay, since the gameplay slows down but music and sound effects continue to play at normal speed. I’m not really sure what a viable solution to this would be, short of ensuring there is virtually no lag at all, which I imagine is a near impossible task for any online game like this, and Smash—or four-player platformer games with lots going on in general—in particular seems to be especially difficult when it comes to online lag. I’m not sure if they could make the musical sound effects slow down with the gameplay when there’s lag (and without altering all the other sound effects or stage music), but even that wouldn’t be ideal because the timing’s still going to always be different depending on how much lag there is.
 
TreIII said:
Koei Tecmo is perhaps one of Nintendo's biggest regular supporters/collaborators that has yet to get playable representation in Smash, yet. How would I do it?

Historical-based grand strategy games has been Koei's trademark for over 40 years. That catalog likely helped them, at least in part, get that sweetheart deal to work on Nintendo's longrunning strategy series, Fire Emblem. So, I'd choose their take on Nobunaga as the way to rep both the titular Nobunaga's Ambition, as well as everything else that spun off from that (Samurai Warriors, Pokémon Conquest, etc.)

I know Ryu Hayabusa from the Tecmo side of things (Ninja Gaiden) is by far the more popular pick, and honestly hope he gets in, too. But I do think it'd be miss if you didn't let Nobunaga duel with fellow strategy game oldhead Marth, and pal around with Pikachu again.
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This is one I've thought about a lot too. While I feel like Smash is going to avoid actual historic figures (Ultimate has spirits from that GBA Napoleon game... but only of the non-historical OC), I definitely feel like Koei would do best if one of their many history simulation games made it in somehow. Nobunaga feels like a weird choice (again, real person) but maybe they could fudge it a little with the Conquest version. Nobunaga is just easily one of the most important figures to strategy gaming history, and the star of over a dozen games with ports just everywhere.

Though there's also always the alternative of using a more fictionalized historical simulation like Uncharted Waters. Tons of protagonists there are just original characters that are maybe a pastiche of multiple real people but still distinct enough on their own.
 
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Dudes, read the title first, then comment, this isn't about who you want the most, but about which genres should be represented in smash bros with a playable character.
 
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Tye said:
Even the slightest bit of lag would cause issues, though. It already does with Incineroar’s side special, and it would be much worse with a fighter whose moveset is entirely based around rhythm, especially if there’s an actual musical element to it, too. And no, I don’t mean that the moves would be synced to the stage music—that’s way too elaborate and impractical to implement.
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Yeah because Smash has terrible netcode. Most current fighting games are not delay-based and work just fine, even with moves that require timing.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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JazzyFuture said:
Yeah because Smash has terrible netcode. Most current fighting games are not delay-based and work just fine, even with moves that require timing.
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So those games have no lag at all—nothing that would desync the sound effects from the gameplay? And even if that is the case, other fighting games are very different from Smash. While most fighting games are strictly two-player with much less stuff to keep track of at once on screen, Smash is a platform fighter with tons of different items and stage effects and all that, and has to support at least four players, if not up to eight, at once. I’m not aware of any other games like it that have super smooth online play (and four-player platformers in general tend to struggle with smooth online), plus I believe Sakurai has said something about there being “sacrifices” of some sort with rollback verus delay-based or something along those lines (I don’t remember the exact quote), so I’m inclined to believe that there’s more to the issue than just “terrible netcode”.
 
Might be a boring answer but I'd definitely say horror games with Leon S Kennedy and/or Jill Valentine from Resident Evil.

Ashley from Another Code as a representation for adventure/visual novel would be lovely too, but I think the more likely outcome would be Ace Attorney.
 
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Tye said:
So those games have no lag at all—nothing that would desync the sound effects from the gameplay? And even if that is the case, other fighting games are very different from Smash. While most fighting games are strictly two-player with much less stuff to keep track of at once on screen, Smash is a platform fighter with tons of different items and stage effects and all that, and has to support at least four players, if not up to eight, at once. I’m not aware of any other games like it that have super smooth online play (and four-player platformers in general tend to struggle with smooth online), plus I believe Sakurai has said something about there being “sacrifices” of some sort with rollback verus delay-based or something along those lines (I don’t remember the exact quote), so I’m inclined to believe that there’s more to the issue than just “terrible netcode”.
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I hate to break it to you, but all fighting games require some sort of timing. But the way rollback works is basically trying to predict what your opponent will do and rolling things back if it got it wrong, but for the upside of online feeling like offline, at least on your end of inputs unless the connection gets really bad.
The sacrifice Ultimate, and specifically Ultimate, would probably have to make is the zoom in on special moves like Falcon Punch or Ridley skewer and killing blows, because if the game guessed wrong on that happening, that would entirely fuck things up. It's why the camera spin on KOs is missing from Lethal League Blaze online. This is usually seen with older fighting games using rollback at low health sometimes prematurely saying "KO" when one doesn't happen.

But as it stands, the standard of delay based netcode messes with timing way more than a rollback solution ever would, as lag spikes mess with timing much more when the game freezes rather than continues with what was already pressed. Combos in of themselves are rhythmic. This would not just be a problem with a rhythm character in Smash, it will continue to be a problem unless Smash steps up it's netcode. If F-Zero can have 99 players accounted for with rollback, Smash can have 4. You can't even use 8 players online, I'd be totally fine if "For Glory" returned and had rollback due to not having to account for 4 players and items.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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JazzyFuture said:
I hate to break it to you, but all fighting games require some sort of timing. But the way rollback works is basically trying to predict what your opponent will do and rolling things back if it got it wrong, but for the upside of online feeling like offline, at least on your end of inputs unless the connection gets really bad.
The sacrifice Ultimate, and specifically Ultimate, would probably have to make is the zoom in on special moves like Falcon Punch or Ridley skewer and killing blows, because if the game guessed wrong on that happening, that would entirely fuck things up. It's why the camera spin on KOs is missing from Lethal League Blaze online. This is usually seen with older fighting games using rollback at low health sometimes prematurely saying "KO" when one doesn't happen.

But as it stands, the standard of delay based netcode messes with timing way more than a rollback solution ever would, as lag spikes mess with timing much more when the game freezes rather than continues with what was already pressed. Combos in of themselves are rhythmic. This would not just be a problem with a rhythm character in Smash, it will continue to be a problem unless Smash steps up it's netcode. If F-Zero can have 99 players accounted for with rollback, Smash can have 4. You can't even use 8 players online, I'd be totally fine if "For Glory" returned and had rollback due to not having to account for 4 players and items.
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I’m aware that any fighting game is going to have some degree of timing, as is also the case with Smash, but even so, Smash works fine enough as is online even with lag (not to say that it’s perfect by any means, but, like, no fighter is just unplayable online or anything like that). Certain moves, like Incineroar’s side special, don’t work so well when there’s lag, and it’s obviously not great for combos, but fortunately Smash isn’t a combo-heavy game and that’s virtually a non-issue to casual players. But, again, a character whose entire moveset is comprised of rhythm-based moves like Incineroar’s side special, while also incorporating musical sound effects used to set the rhythmic timing that will desync from the gameplay when any lag is introduced, is going to be a much worse issue. Could it be fixed with rollback instead of delay-based netcode? I don’t know, maybe? You’ve not really answered the question of whether rollback games have any lag at all or not (I’m guessing they can still have lag though since you seemed to imply lag will still happen if a connection is bad), and I’m not super familiar with rollback myself, so I really don’t know if that would solve the musical rhythm-based move issue (again, not just something that’s rhythmic to on-screen visuals, but also to musical sound effects at the same time, which both need to be kept in sync). But yes, I’m sure rollback would be better overall not just for a Rhythm Heaven fighter but also for Smash in general…again, assuming rollback is realistically able to be implemented in Smash without other issues. You’ve identified at least one issue already with the zoom-in stuff, and there could be more—I’d expect that to be the case if Sakurai seems to think it’s a significant enough reason to stick with delay-based over rollback, so there are probably other issues that we naturally aren’t privy to. It’d probably be easier to implement with just 1-on-1, no items, “For Glory”-style matches, sure, but would going with an entirely different netcode for just a single type of online play and doing something different for everything else (assuming there are issues with implementing rollback for other styles) even be a viable thing to do?

Regardless, my intention wasn’t to argue about the state of Smash’s online play—I was just pointing out my observation of why I believe the Rhythm Heaven fighter may have been cut and wasn’t revisited in Ultimate, because I really do think it’s likely due to online lag. Obviously if rollback can resolve that issue, while also being better for the game in general, then I would welcome its adoption in Smash with open arms, but I’m not convinced that the matter is as simple as “terrible netcode” and that there may be perfectly valid reasons as to why Smash hasn’t yet implemented rollback and why it’s may be very difficulty to do so in Smash specifically. What’s easy for F-ZERO 99 isn’t necessarily the case for Smash Bros. Even though F-ZERO 99 has many more players per match than Smash, it’s a much simpler game, plus it’s a racing game, which I believe are known for being some of the easiest to implement online play in.
 
Tye said:
I’m aware that any fighting game is going to have some degree of timing, as is also the case with Smash, but even so, Smash works fine enough as is online even with lag (not to say that it’s perfect by any means, but, like, no fighter is just unplayable online or anything like that). Certain moves, like Incineroar’s side special, don’t work so well when there’s lag, and it’s obviously not great for combos, but fortunately Smash isn’t a combo-heavy game and that’s virtually a non-issue to casual players. But, again, a character whose entire moveset is comprised of rhythm-based moves like Incineroar’s side special, while also incorporating musical sound effects used to set the rhythmic timing that will desync from the gameplay when any lag is introduced, is going to be a much worse issue. Could it be fixed with rollback instead of delay-based netcode? I don’t know, maybe? You’ve not really answered the question of whether rollback games have any lag at all or not (I’m guessing they can still have lag though since you seemed to imply lag will still happen if a connection is bad), and I’m not super familiar with rollback myself, so I really don’t know if that would solve the musical rhythm-based move issue (again, not just something that’s rhythmic to on-screen visuals, but also to musical sound effects at the same time, which both need to be kept in sync). But yes, I’m sure rollback would be better overall not just for a Rhythm Heaven fighter but also for Smash in general…again, assuming rollback is realistically able to be implemented in Smash without other issues. You’ve identified at least one issue already with the zoom-in stuff, and there could be more—I’d expect that to be the case if Sakurai seems to think it’s a significant enough reason to stick with delay-based over rollback, so there are probably other issues that we naturally aren’t privy to.
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Audio does not ever get rolled back, but if you are playing a rhythm based character, you would just have to do what the game expects, which should be fine on your end because your inputs are being handled locally and then sent online, instead of waiting for the online. Your opponent is rolling back on your end, your inputs are basically offline. Your timing would be perfectly fine if it used the new standard of netcode. Rollback matches can only get delayed in extreme cases, and I mean EXTREME. Where as with delay that is just an inevitability that will affect every single match, even in optimal conditions.
It’d probably be easier to implement with just 1-on-1, no items, “For Glory”-style matches, sure, but would going with an entirely different netcode for just a single type of online play and doing something different for everything else (assuming there are issues with implementing rollback for other styles) even be a viable thing to do?
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Other platform fighters have done it, so yes. Smash's online is SO far behind other fighting games, even other platform fighters that it's the one thing I want changed in the future.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Melinoë from Hades 2 is a good fit for this topic as long as she's a good character and the game is good.
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I disagree. For roguelikes, I'd have to vouch for Shiren the Wanderer. Not only have his games pioneered the roguelike genre, he had numerous games exclusive to Nintendo, one of which was even published by them. Hades was cool to get spirits for, but I don't think the series is a good fit for a fighter.
 
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