Predictions What Paper Mario TTYD remake means for future of Paper Mario series?

[Lord Azrael]

Are people assuming that TTYD will sell way more than TOK or something? Because I really don't see that being the case. So unless they're going back to the old style of their own volition, I don't see the remake's reception having any impact on franchise direction

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Are people assuming that TTYD will sell way more than TOK or something? Because I really don't see that being the case. So unless they're going back to the old style of their own volition, I don't see the remake's reception having any impact on franchise direction

A subset of people have convinced themselves that the return of TTYD will blow away TOK, yes. I don't see it happening, but even if it does, they're not going back, and they'll keep trying new things with the series because we saw what happened with a mario RPG series that doesn't continuously try new things like paper mario does, having not made any more than 2 of any given style of game before moving on thus far.

 

[MrGab]

Are people assuming that TTYD will sell way more than TOK or something? Because I really don't see that being the case. So unless they're going back to the old style of their own volition, I don't see the remake's reception having any impact on franchise direction

It's less about sales, more about the Alphadream end, so with Mario RPGs without a "house", the more easier and logical solution would be IntSys returning Paper Mario into a RPG, which would explain TTYD remake.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It's less about sales, more about the Alphadream end, so with Mario RPGs without a "house", the more easier and logical solution would be IntSys returning Paper Mario into a RPG, which would explain TTYD remake.

It's definitely about sales regarding whether they do or not. Anything short of an overwhelming sales bias towards the RPG line will just have them continue doing what they've decided they want to. There's no reason that Mario RPGs have some god given right to a "house" but the rest of the things they've tried with the paper mario series shouldn't, unless there's a real significant financial incentive one way or the other.

 

[Lucifer]

A subset of people have convinced themselves that the return of TTYD will blow away TOK, yes. I don't see it happening, but even if it does, they're not going back, and they'll keep trying new things with the series because we saw what happened with a mario RPG series that doesn't continuously try new things like paper mario does, having not made any more than 2 of any given style of game before moving on thus far.

Mario & Luigi doesn't say anything other than how that series was handled and their struggles with HD development. Plenty of ways to innovate within a genre.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Origami King did not have any graphical upgrades from Color Splash, and since IntSys is a small developer, I would guess that they will prioritize frame rate over graphics in Switch 2.
Of course, this assumption could be wrong, but small Japanese developers tend to prioritize frame rate over graphics. This was the case with Falcom.

I put IS ahead of Falcom as far as technical proficiency goes. TOK also increases the scope over Color Splash, so there's less room to push things. I'm one of those who believe Nintendo peaked early with Switch because of how close handheld mode is to the Wii U. With more leg room, I can see IS pushing the boat out further. But they could also go with high framerate, but I just don't think they'll do that for Paper Mario.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Mario & Luigi doesn't say anything other than how that series was handled and their struggles with HD development. Plenty of ways to innovate within a genre.

"The way that series was handled" sounds an awful lot like the way TTYD diehards wish the Pm series was handled with only ever doing minor iterations rather than anything meaningfully new, and we saw the end result of just making the same game over and over again with minor gimmicks, when it killed the M&L series (which lets remember, was routinely more successful than PM).

As is, Innovating within the same general game style is exactly what they've been doing.

 

[Lucifer]

"The way that series was handled" sounds an awful lot like the way TTYD diehards wish the Pm series was handled with only ever doing minor iterations rather than anything meaningfully new, and we saw the end result of just making the same game over and over again with minor gimmicks, when it killed the M&L series (which lets remember, was routinely more successful than PM).

As is, Innovating within the same general game style is exactly what they've been doing.

So were they innovating or making small alterations? Because as I understand your post they've done both. That's contradicting.

Hopping genres is not the only road to success, if that was the case 3D Mario should be a first person shooter by now and Metroidvania next.

I don't believe people just want small alterations. It's pretty obvious that people want RPG mechanics out of a series that has been an RPG for the first three games.

Paper Mario never even strayed from its RPG roots, it's still turn based it just made people feel like the battles are completely pointless.

 

[StretchNStripes]

I think the next Paper Mario will pull from TTYD as much as it pulls from TOK… which is to say elaborating on concepts that both share in more meaningful ways.

Partners and Badges are the big ones I see coming back in a more “traditional” sense. TOK dips its toes back in to both: Chapters have partners that follow you around and assist in battle, but are not permanent and do not allow the player to manipulate their actions during a fight. Continuing that trend, I could see partners becoming more “traditional” in the next game.
Same with Badges. TOK has little trinkets you can buy to increase the timer, up your defense, etc. They are helpful but not particularly full of depth. If that mechanic is also elaborated on, I could see it taking the form of something like Badges.

Gameplay-wise? I think it’s a toss-up. It’s possible they will forego battles altogether. I could still see partners returning in that scenario, though, for overworld puzzles and actions (similarly to the Pixls in SPM).

 

[AtomicZach]

It’s always weird seeing people call Super Paper Mario an RPG, especially when they try and make it so it belongs with the first three games.

 

[Lucifer]

It’s always weird seeing people call Super Paper Mario an RPG, especially when they try and make it so it belongs with the first three games.

I would categorise it with the first three games for several other reasons as well, story, sound, characters, etc. Paper Mario went through a big change with Sticker Stars.

You're right in that it's not an actual turn based RPG. But it never fully left its RPG roots with the way it incorporated leveling up and other mechanics in the game.

And neither did SS, CS, or TOK. Paper Mario never really left its RPG roots, people just criticise the latter games because the battles feel pointless. And I agree with that sentiment. I loved the overworld gameplay in CS and TOK, but the battles hold those games back for me. So I personally hope they focus on fixing that aspect of Paper Mario. As well as having a basic Peach is kidnapped story, that should have been over and done with after Super.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I would categorise it with the first three games for several other reasons as well, story, sound, characters, etc. Paper Mario went through a big change with Sticker Stars.

You're right in that it's not an actual turn based RPG. But it never fully left its RPG roots with the way it incorporated leveling up and other mechanics in the game.

And neither did SS, CS, or TOK. Paper Mario never really left its RPG roots, people just criticise the latter games because the battles feel pointless. And I agree with that sentiment. I loved the overworld gameplay in CS and TOK, but the battles hold those games back for me. So I personally hope they focus on fixing that aspect of Paper Mario. As well as having a basic Peach is kidnapped story, that should have been over and done with after Super.

...Well TOK is technically not Peach being kidnapped. More like, Peach being folded and stretched out into a castle, which is horrifying in a whole bunch of other ways.



Geez... ToK had a pretty horror vibe by the end if you think of it from a paper person POV.

 

[Lucifer]

...Well TOK is technically not Peach being kidnapped. More like, Peach being folded and stretched out into a castle, which is horrifying in a whole bunch of other ways.



Geez... ToK had a pretty horror vibe by the end if you think of it from a paper person POV.

That one was definitely more interesting than the previous two games lol. I also was surprised at the Bob thing. Hope we get to see more moments like that in future PM games.

 

[RochHoch]

Unless it's sales are like crazy high, then probably nothing

Intelligent Systems will come back on the Switch 2 with another stupid battle system that provides zero incentive to engage with, and Paper Mario discourse will remain as toxic as ever.

 

[AtomicZach]

I would categorise it with the first three games for several other reasons as well, story, sound, characters, etc. Paper Mario went through a big change with Sticker Stars.

You're right in that it's not an actual turn based RPG. But it never fully left its RPG roots with the way it incorporated leveling up and other mechanics in the game.

And neither did SS, CS, or TOK. Paper Mario never really left its RPG roots, people just criticise the latter games because the battles feel pointless. And I agree with that sentiment. I loved the overworld gameplay in CS and TOK, but the battles hold those games back for me. So I personally hope they focus on fixing that aspect of Paper Mario. As well as having a basic Peach is kidnapped story, that should have been over and done with after Super.

I mean, story is very different in SPM than 64 and even TTYD. Heck, the flip and flopsides don't really fit in any Paper Mario games.

To be fair, I do think TOK really feels like a game that wants to move to full action. By the midpoint, most RPG "normal" fights are optional and they instead start throwing the "do the puzzle many times in a row and avoid choosing an attack" or just straight up action battles instead. I think the next game is probably gonna go full action puzzle gameplay. Which honestly will be for the best since that was some of the most fun combat in TOK.

 

[AstroOhHey]

...Well TOK is technically not Peach being kidnapped. More like, Peach being folded and stretched out into a castle, which is horrifying in a whole bunch of other ways.



Geez... ToK had a pretty horror vibe by the end if you think of it from a paper person POV.

I'm pretty sure TOK's intro is an intentional subversion of the original PM's intro where suddenly everything's taken over by a cult, it's actually a pretty great start to the game.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

It's less about sales, more about the Alphadream end, so with Mario RPGs without a "house", the more easier and logical solution would be IntSys returning Paper Mario into a RPG, which would explain TTYD remake.

I’m not really seeing the logic here

1. AD goes bankrupt
2. Return to RPGs to fill the gap
3. ???
4. And that’s why TTYDR was

The easier & logical solution is let IS make the games they wanna make. They have no obligation to give Mario RPGs a home due to another studio collapsing.

 

[Hailinel]

It's less about sales, more about the Alphadream end, so with Mario RPGs without a "house", the more easier and logical solution would be IntSys returning Paper Mario into a RPG, which would explain TTYD remake.

By that same (flawed) logic, "Alpha Dream collapsed because no one bought Mario RPGs. Therefore why would we make Mario RPGs?"

 

[MrGab]

It's definitely about sales regarding whether they do or not. Anything short of an overwhelming sales bias towards the RPG line will just have them continue doing what they've decided they want to. There's no reason that Mario RPGs have some god given right to a "house" but the rest of the things they've tried with the paper mario series shouldn't, unless there's a real significant financial incentive one way or the other.

I’m not really seeing the logic here

1. AD goes bankrupt
2. Return to RPGs to fill the gap
3. ???
4. And that’s why TTYDR was

The easier & logical solution is let IS make the games they wanna make. They have no obligation to give Mario RPGs a home due to another studio collapsing.

By that same (flawed) logic, "Alpha Dream collapsed because no one bought Mario RPGs. Therefore why would we make Mario RPGs?"

Yes, Mario RPGs don't have obligations to have a house, neither IntS have to do Paper Mario RPG, but is a possibility, fueled by recent Mario RPGs remakes.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

Yes, Mario RPGs don't have obligations to have a house, neither IntS have to do Paper Mario RPG, but is a possibility, fueled by recent Mario RPGs remakes.

Sure I guess even though I’m not really seeing the correlation here. Given IS & Tanabe’s answers over the years, the more likely possibility is Nintendo finding a studio to make a new M&L game or start a new brand of Mario RPGs based upon sales of the two remakes.

 

[FloofGaming]

Wait wait, everyone.
What if instead of the TTYD remake influencing future Paper Mario games in terms of gameplay, what if we ended up getting a subseries based around Paper Luigi using a similar engine and art style to the TTYD remake? It would be like allowing Paper Mario to continue doing the action adventure stuff while Luigi is able to carry on the wacky RPG side of things.

Though this is super wishful thinking and I doubt IS has the manpower to actually do this.

 

[MrGab]

Wait wait, everyone.
What if instead of the TTYD remake influencing future Paper Mario games in terms of gameplay, what if we ended up getting a subseries based around Paper Luigi using a similar engine and art style to the TTYD remake? It would be like allowing Paper Mario to continue doing the action adventure stuff while Luigi is able to carry on the wacky RPG side of things.

Though this is super wishful thinking and I doubt IS has the manpower to actually do this.

I would like this. A Paper Wario would be so good too.

 

[VDenter]

It’s always weird seeing people call Super Paper Mario an RPG, especially when they try and make it so it belongs with the first three games.

Given that it has RPG elements and a similar progression structure to the first two games. How is it weird?

If you judge SPM just as a 2D platformer then it's a pretty terrible one. I think it's a bad game personally but I also think it's far closer to the first two than any of the others have been since. Turn based combat or not.

 

[Lucifer]

I mean, story is very different in SPM than 64 and even TTYD. Heck, the flip and flopsides don't really fit in any Paper Mario games.

To be fair, I do think TOK really feels like a game that wants to move to full action. By the midpoint, most RPG "normal" fights are optional and they instead start throwing the "do the puzzle many times in a row and avoid choosing an attack" or just straight up action battles instead. I think the next game is probably gonna go full action puzzle gameplay. Which honestly will be for the best since that was some of the most fun combat in TOK.

I mean, story is very different in SPM than 64 and even TTYD. Heck, the flip and flopsides don't really fit in any Paper Mario games.

To be fair, I do think TOK really feels like a game that wants to move to full action. By the midpoint, most RPG "normal" fights are optional and they instead start throwing the "do the puzzle many times in a row and avoid choosing an attack" or just straight up action battles instead. I think the next game is probably gonna go full action puzzle gameplay. Which honestly will be for the best since that was some of the most fun combat in TOK.

I get a different vibe from the stories in the first three games compared to the newer ones. The first three games feel like the actual Mario characters told in a storybook form. The latter three feel like an alternate universe with alternate versions of the characters where everyone is aware they're paper and the paper theme is actually part of the stories.

I would have liked TOK a lot more if it was an action game, I feel like they're not fully committing to a style or genre and that's why the games end up being kind of RPG but not really. Which just ends up in battles offering no incentive to ingage with for many people.