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Predictions What Paper Mario TTYD remake means for future of Paper Mario series?

What Paper Mario TTYD remake means for future of Paper Mario series?

  • Something. At very least, next game will include some elements of TTYD.

    Votes: 44 49.4%

  • Nothing. Next game will continue adventure route.

    Votes: 45 50.6%
  • Total voters
    89
MrGab

MrGab

Boo
So, now with Paper Mario TTYD remake announced, where the series will go from here?

I think next game will be a RPG, but more like a mix of TTYD elements with Origami King. I don't think will be a "copy" from 2 firsts PM games, but will not be a Origami King 2 either, maybe this game will unite PM fans, if well executed. My predictions for next new PM game:

Partners will come, but with a different spin.
You will gain exp points, but not like in first 2 games where you choose between hp, fp and bp when up a level.
Badge system will be replaced with something else.
Battles system will be different, but you will gain exp points.
Progression/structure will be different, maybe more open.
It will have a "gimmick" like in recent PM games.
Unexpecteds characters will appear in the game, like Daisy or Wario.
 
I feel like Nintendo will try a combo of Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario while either going with Mario + Luigi branding or one of the other two. They will try and make this the "hardcore" Mario game that complements the sports stuff on the side.
 
Unless Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Switch has some major new epilogue / additional campaign, I don’t think we can read too much into the future of the series from what primarily currently looks like a graphical remake. It does seemingly have new NPCs, so I’m curious to see what other new content it will have, but it’s just too early to say.
 
I feel like I've already replied to this exact thread a few months ago.

Personally, I think it depends on sales and reception, of course. Mario doesn't have any dedicated RPG games right now unless Super Mario RPG remake leads somewhere (which I would be all for!)

I don't mind the series being weird with its gameplay, as I've enjoyed both Color Splash and Origami King (and would absolutely call CS an RPG due to its exp system and battles being highly evocative of 64/TTYD just with added gimmick) and consider them to be the best in the series thanks to snappy pacing and witty writing.

I think my dream would be for Mario RPG series to continue, as it had some weird charm, with Paper Mario doing whatever its been doing since Super.
 
Yamanoi said:
I feel like Nintendo will try a combo of Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario while either going with Mario + Luigi branding or one of the other two. They will try and make this the "hardcore" Mario game that complements the sports stuff on the side.
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Paper Mario & Luigi would be an interesting idea, combining elements of M&L and PM games.
 
I can’t say what TTYDR means for the Paper Mario franchise as a whole going forward. But I can say that, in my heart of hearts, I want a sequel to TOK that’s a full-on adventure game. With Zelda dungeons and environmental puzzles and real-time action combat, building from the paper macho fights in TOK.

If I could make the next Paper Mario, that’s what I would do.
 
Nothing. If they need this game's reception to dictate the future, either we're not getting a paper mario game for a long while or the product is two games away.

Ttyd remake just strikes me as filler so far
 
In general how much one game's style means to the future of the series is something better asked once we see how well received and how oft purchased it is.
 
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Paper Mario creators were directed to stop making Paper Mario into RPG's because of the Mario & Luigi series. RPG's don't sell enough to have two spin-off subseries. When Alpha Dream went out of business in 2019 it would obviously be too late to change TOK but bringing back the holy grail during the downtime inbetween console generations will give them a trial balloon to gauge interest and the time needed to reinvision the future of the series.
 
What this means for Paper Mario, I don't even guess. I can't imagine they'll go back to uniquely named and designed Toads again unless that suddenly just becomes a Paper Mario thing. This game and Mario RPG have a grandfather clause going for them.

Red Monster said:
I can’t say what TTYDR means for the Paper Mario franchise as a whole going forward. But I can say that, in my heart of hearts, I want a sequel to TOK that’s a full-on adventure game. With Zelda dungeons and environmental puzzles and real-time action combat, building from the paper macho fights in TOK.

If I could make the next Paper Mario, that’s what I would do.
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Honestly, I feel like TOK and CS would have been just incredible had they just dropped the combat and gone for an adventure game with puzzles and jokes. Literally killed the run time with filler combat.
 
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I doubt this game was ever intended to be some kind of test to determine the ultimate fate of Paper Mario. People have spent so much time arguing about this series online that the discussion seems to be less about a beloved game getting a remaster, and more about proving a narrative they’ve had for a decade now.

Meanwhile, Nintendo likely just sees it as another legacy remake/remaster like they’ve been doing the whole life of the Switch, and are just hoping it pads the release schedule before the next console launch.
 
I don't think we see Super Mario RPG continue as its own series or anything(I mean, that's what Paper Mario/Mario Story was.), but I think positive reception and sales will lead to careful consideration of the future of RPG spinoffs of Mario.

I would like to see Mario & Luigi RPG continue, for sure, if anything I think the most likely output from SMRPG remake is M&L RPG6, Mario and Luigi being Nintendo's idea of a "pure" Mario RPG since Super Paper Mario... Did what it did.

For Paper Mario, I think TTYDHD's success will help to bring Paper Mario into a more balanced era- because the games can have adventures, stories, gimmicks, even battle gimmicks, and keep a core set of RPG mechanics and a fantastical world.

My biggest frustration with Mario and Luigi was definitely Paper Jam, because it did so much right, and so much wrong. The core issue for me is the battle system is amazing, my favourite RPG battle system, period. I don't love deck building, usually, but the way it enhances Paper Jam is something else. The mechanical function of Paper Mario meant you only got one super powerful attack per turn, as opposed to two. It was was also the only game where I actually liked BP. It was such a good battle system in such a terrible game. A battle system where you can stack multipliers and bonuses to the ceiling, in a game where everything dies to a jump, absolutely pointless, maddening.


I hope TTYDHD brings us more Mario series RPGs either which way...
 
History with the Mario & Luigi series has shown us it might just be the downward spiral before the end, lol

After Paper Jam the Mario & Luigi remakes gave the impression that they were the only chance to keep the "weird" off-brand elements in the series going, so it's hard to say if Thousand Year Door is a similar "loophole" or not. It feels like Nintendo has slightly loosened recently but if elements did return I'm sure it would be gameplay elements rather than the really offbeat characters.
 
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MrGab said:
So, now with Paper Mario TTYD remake announced, where the series will go from here?

I think next game will be a RPG, but more like a mix of TTYD elements with Origami King. I don't think will be a "copy" from 2 firsts PM games, but will not be a Origami King 2 either, maybe this game will unite PM fans, if well executed. My predictions for next new PM game:

Partners will come, but with a different spin.
You will gain exp points, but not like in first 2 games where you choose between hp, fp and bp when up a level.
Badge system will be replaced with something else.
Battles system will be different, but you will gain exp points.
Progression/structure will be different, maybe more open.
It will have a "gimmick" like in recent PM games.
Unexpecteds characters will appear in the game, like Daisy or Wario.
Click to expand...
maybe if the Paper Mario the Thousand Years Door remake is a success, Paper Mario 7 on Switch sucessor will feature similar gameplay to the first two Paper Mario games and will be kinda of a return to roots
 
Concernt said:
but I think positive reception and sales will lead to careful consideration of the future of RPG spinoffs of Mario.
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Came in here to say the very same statement. I presume the next Paper Mario is on pre-production. I assume TTYD Remake is almost going to go gold, so a portion of the team must be in the brainstorming phase of the next PM game, but carefully evaluating the performance of SMRPG, and are gonna look into TTYD’s reception.

I’d say we’re at a very interesting point in the Paper Mario series where it could go anywhere. Either:
• A more evolved Origami King game, with more elements from older games;
• A more evolved TTYD, with more elements from TOK
 
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Hopefully nothing too significant. I want Paper Mario to continue to do new things with its gameplay, not retread less interesting (to me) RPG-style gameplay. There’s no shortage of RPGs out there, but the Paper Mario games from Super onward are so unique. I don’t want to lose that. Nintendo could always revive the Mario & Luigi series for a more traditional Mario RPG series, after all. No need to strip Paper Mario of what makes it truly stand out.

To be clear, I don’t hate the first two Paper Mario games by any means, but they’re just so much less interesting to me, and more of a slog to play. I’ve enjoyed the later Paper Mario games much more, and whether you like them or not, there’s no denying their uniqueness.
 
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I think they'll try a return to form, just because I get the impression Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are tired of the reception and negativity toward modern Paper Mario. The fact they chose to remake TTYD before Paper Mario 64 or Super Paper Mario shows they are indeed listening to fan opinions on the series.
 
Giancarlo said:
maybe if the Paper Mario the Thousand Years Door remake is a success, Paper Mario 7 on Switch sucessor will feature similar gameplay to the first two Paper Mario games and will be kinda of a return to roots
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the question will be, what kind of success is needed to make the change. because if it just matches TOK, then that just tells them that people want "Paper Mario", not "rpg Paper Mario". we might as well throw SMRPG in the mix as well, and that's looking to do well, but not exceptionally better than TOK
 
ILikeFeet said:
the question will be, what kind of success is needed to make the change. because if it just matches TOK, then that just tells them that people want "Paper Mario", not "rpg Paper Mario". we might as well throw SMRPG in the mix as well, and that's looking to do well, but not exceptionally better than TOK
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I have a feeling that Paper Mario 7 will be an amalgamation of the three most recent Mario RPGs we’ve gotten:
• TOK;
• SMRPG;
• TTYD

If anything, Partners should be heavily considered.
 
ziggyrivers said:
I have a feeling that Paper Mario 7 will be an amalgamation of the three most recent Mario RPGs we’ve gotten:
• TOK;
• SMRPG;
• TTYD

If anything, Partners should be heavily considered.
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Why would IS incorporate ideas from SMRPG when they had no involvement in that game and so much of its design is antithetical to even the RPG Paper Marios?
 
I doubt they would remake 2 classic Mario RPG’s, then just never make another one again. The modern Paper Mario games were already crawling back to the status quo anyway, I absolutely think the old style is back.
 
Pillydillsy said:
I doubt they would remake 2 classic Mario RPG’s, then just never make another one again. The modern Paper Mario games were already crawling back to the status quo anyway, I absolutely think the old style is back.
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Although I understand and sympathize with your reasoning, have we ever had an instance of remakes getting sequels? (Besides FF7R, but that was already planned and treated as its own thing)
 
I think we're going to see a return of Mario RPGs with Mario & Luigi dead, it just might not necessarily be a new Paper Mario or Super Mario RPG.
 
ziggyrivers said:
Although I understand and sympathize with your reasoning, have we ever had an instance of remakes getting sequels? (Besides FF7R, but that was already planned and treated as its own thing)
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Fair point, but at the same time remakes have only started to increase in number more recently. It’s kinda hard to say if they mean anything when not enough time has passed since release to make a call
 
ILikeFeet said:
the question will be, what kind of success is needed to make the change. because if it just matches TOK, then that just tells them that people want "Paper Mario", not "rpg Paper Mario". we might as well throw SMRPG in the mix as well, and that's looking to do well, but not exceptionally better than TOK
Click to expand...
been better reviewed/sold then TOK
 
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Tbh at this point I don’t know, I would love for paper Mario to bring back actual party members and EXP in a new game if TTYDR does do well, and if they return to form I would love a party system that’s similar to Mario RPG’s party system by allowing to have a party of 4 in battle allowing more strategy.
There is a pessimistic part of me where I think TTYDR prolly won’t mean anything in the long run and the series will most likely just continuing doing a weird half step of an tacked on RPG battle system with pretty fun overworld gameplay elements.

I think at this point I would just want a soft reboot of the Mario and Luigi series or really any new Mario JRPG that has the same action command system in it with unique worlds and characters.
 
i'd sure like it to continue on in the style of the old games, but i'm really not sure if this remake is meant to be a sign of things to come or just something they did to pad out the switch's end-of-life with a fan favorite game. given tanabe and co.'s interview comments and stuff about not really wanting to just make formulaic RPGs over and over again in favor of wanting to do something "new" every time, i feel like it'd be a face heel turn for them to suddenly go back and indeed make formulaic RPGs as the paper mario series again, but we'll see!

(this post was originally a giant wall of text laying out my thoughts on the developers thought processes and stuff but on retrospect i felt it was poorly worded and a lot of it was just me ranting about tanabe's game design decisions instead of focusing on the topic at hand, so i eradicated most of it. sorry!)
 
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I don’t feel like Paper Mario has to go back to the way it was but it would sure be nice if new Mario RPGs were being made in some capacity. And to be honest my issues with recent paper Mario is not they they straight up did away with elements of the older games but that often the new elements don’t feel like they are as fleshed out as they should be. Flaws and all, TTYD feels like a fully realized game in ways that only TOK comes close to.
 
ziggyrivers said:
True.

—————

I actually think this is cool:
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Eh, this yet again throws weird shade on newer Paper Mario games as something focused solely on Paper. While the 3D Mario chart made difference between two "series" it didn't put down something like 3D World for linearity and focus on obstacle course-like level design.

Paper Mario fans are usually a fanbase I consider one of the most toxic because of how they approach newer games - this image says nothing even remotely good about last three games of the series even differentiating the "logo" they use as a plain rectangle as opposed to rainbow-colored one. And come on, are you really going to tell me Paper Mario 64 had a great story? The whole thing is a Mario RPG retread, and the characters that appeared in said story are no more charming than what we got in Origami King.

So weird to be that gatekeepy about a cartoon RPG that honestly never really had a great story among its umbrella genre.
 
I think Nintendo/IntSys is looking more to critical reception than sales performance, everyone knows this game will not sell that much because launching in very end of Switch life cycle.
 
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vivian said:
i mean, (and i know more than one person makes these sort of decisions but tanabe is the face of it in interviews and stuff so bear with me) i just don't trust that the man who said for 3 games in a row that they don't want to just make formulaic RPGs will suddenly face heel turn and re-reboot the series back into formulaic RPGs again, especially after TOK seemed to go over well enough in sales and has a good metacritic score and a decently sized fanbase, why should they listen to the paper mario boomers instead of just doing what they want?

(though that would ignore that a lot of the reasons why TOK was praised were specifically BECAUSE of elements that were reintroduced from the classic series and the #1 criticism of the game across the board from what i saw was that the RPG elements were too lacking and the battle system just wasn't fun in comparison to the old games... but i digress)

like, this is the guy who removed experience points just seemingly because he didn't like them and "wanted to make an RPG without them" and REFUSED to reintroduce them across 3 games despite near universal backlash each time, even from fans of the new games... i don't wanna call him stubborn but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd just give up and make sequels to TTYD until the end of time because a bunch of internet losers like me keep complaining its too different now. i can just as easily see them doing this remake to get people to shut up about wanting games like TTYD again as much as it could be them genuinely wanting to return to the old style or wanting to see why people love it so much (if there was even any philosophy behind remaking it at all beyond the pure financial decision of padding the switch's library at the end of its life with a fan favorite game that'd be less costly to remaster and less of a financial risk compared to making a new game from scratch)

so whether paper mario returns to being The mario rpg series or just does its own weird thing again i think will be purely up to the whims of the designers and executives in charge - though here's my tinfoil hat... i think its worth noting how the modern paper mario games felt like they were slowly reintroducing more "classic" paper mario elements over time in half steps, and seeing just how much love and care is being put into the ttyd remake now with the easter eggs even calling forward to super paper mario and keeping all of the older character designs like the goombas and boos and stuff? it makes me feel like intelligent systems REALLY wanted to return to the "classic" world of paper mario that they made for a long time and just couldn't for one reason or another... though thats probably just me reading WAY too far into things and they're just doing their jobs remaking their beloved game where they probably had a "DONT FUCK WITH IT" mentality afraid of ttyd fan backlash
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Jesus Christ, Tanabe is not the devil, people.
 
Vookatos said:
Eh, this yet again throws weird shade on newer Paper Mario games as something focused solely on Paper. While the 3D Mario chart made difference between two "series" it didn't put down something like 3D World for linearity and focus on obstacle course-like level design.

Paper Mario fans are usually a fanbase I consider one of the most toxic because of how they approach newer games - this image says nothing even remotely good about last three games of the series even differentiating the "logo" they use as a plain rectangle as opposed to rainbow-colored one. And come on, are you really going to tell me Paper Mario 64 had a great story? The whole thing is a Mario RPG retread, and the characters that appeared in said story are no more charming than what we got in Origami King.

So weird to be that gatekeepy about a cartoon RPG that honestly never really had a great story among its umbrella genre.
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i won't argue that the image doesn't feel biased towards the old games but to your point about the plain rectangle vs rainbow colored one thing, i'm pretty sure that's just them trying to replicate the UI between super paper mario and sticker star respectively, it's not meant to be some dig like "awesome old games vs boring new games"

screen-shot-2020-04-22-at-5.07.55-am.png

whats-your-favorite-text-box-style-v0-0g965pus2z691.png
 
Hailinel said:
Jesus Christ, Tanabe is not the devil, people.
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i never said he was?? i was just speaking my thought process for why i don't think it'd be likely for the series to just flat-out return to the RPG formula based on the dude's words in interviews - i admit i probably could've trimmed the post down without the personal aside about how i feel he hasn't listened to common feedback re: exp and stuff but i wasn't trying to antagonize the guy or anything

like i said, i'm biased and i don't like the decisions he's made as the guy seemingly in charge of paper mario now but i'm sorry if it came off as me attacking the guy

edit: i've decided to erase most of my original post as in retrospect most of it was just off-topic ranting about my feelings on tanabe's design decisions with the new games. sorry!
 
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I thought the image was an interesting nod to the styles and uniqueness of each entry with a cool classification. Apologies if it brings flaming discussion :/

I myself am an enjoyer of both styles
 
ILikeFeet said:
this is some "I'm not biased" nonesense
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Even ignoring the text boxes, you’ve got the older games on the blue arrow pointing upwards (good!) versus the newer games on the red arrow that’s pointing downwards (bad!), and they’ve clearly intentionally picked the most standard character designs they could to represent the newer games (complete with an angry Toad—because they’re angry about how bad the new games are, get it??), totally ignoring any of the more unique designs from those games while using exclusively unique designs to represent the older games. Not to mention the accompanying text that makes the bias incredibly obvious. I dunno how anyone could look at this and seriously believe this was done in good faith and isn’t just another tired attempt to shit on the new Paper Mario games and whine about their existence.

I don’t understand how such a fun, charming series brings out the most miserable, toxic fans. I understand not liking the direction a series you love goes in (well…somewhat; I can’t say I’ve ever really felt that way with any of the series that I love—which includes virtually everything from Nintendo, so that’s a lot—besides Sonic, since I really do not care for classic-style Sonic games much at all, but that’s kind of the opposite problem and even so I’m not like that about it), but you don’t have to be so aggressively shitty about it as these kind of Paper Mario fans seem to be.
 
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I don't think it'll mean anything if I'm being honest. We just got a remake of Super Mario RPG, and I don't really think we are going to see a resurgence in anything related to it. It feels like a nice nod for a popular game that will get some love after a long absence.
 
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xghost777 said:
Unless Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Switch has some major new epilogue / additional campaign, I don’t think we can read too much into the future of the series from what primarily currently looks like a graphical remake. It does seemingly have new NPCs, so I’m curious to see what other new content it will have, but it’s just too early to say.
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Wait it has new NPCs?
 
Unless TTYD does something stupid in sales, like 5m+, I don't see Nintendo going back to the "old" formula. Nintendo continues to evolve what a Paper Mario game is. The Origami King was a success both critically and commercially. I don't see them going back to something that worked 20+ years ago.
 
I think there is a good chance this thing does indeed sell quite a bit encouraging a return to this style.
 
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Tye said:
Even ignoring the text boxes, you’ve got the older games on the blue arrow pointing upwards (good!) versus the newer games on the red arrow that’s pointing downwards (bad!), and they’ve clearly intentionally picked the most standard character designs they could to represent the newer games (complete with an angry Toad—because they’re angry about how bad the new games are, get it??), totally ignoring any of the more unique designs from those games while using exclusively unique designs to represent the older games. Not to mention the accompanying text that makes the bias incredibly obvious. I dunno how anyone could look at this and seriously believe this was done in good faith and isn’t just another tired attempt to shit on the new Paper Mario games and whine about their existence.

I don’t understand how such a fun, charming series brings out the most miserable, toxic fans. I understand not liking the direction a series you love goes in (well…somewhat; I can’t say I’ve ever really felt that way with any of the series that I love—which includes virtually everything from Nintendo, so that’s a lot—besides Sonic, since I really do not care for classic-style Sonic games much at all, but that’s kind of the opposite problem and even so I’m not like that about it), but you don’t have to be so aggressively shitty about it as these kind of Paper Mario fans seem to be.
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Not to mention that folding Origami King into the SS-CS style, and for that matter SPM into 64-TTYD style, is a gross generalisation, which fails to take into account the unique pros and cons of the games. In Origami King's case, it feels almost malicious, as it refuses to acknowledge how the game diverged from SS-CS.
 
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Gameplay is one thing, but I really hope the next game follows this artstyle. It’s really pretty, I love how the characters look constructed like cardboard pieces.

I never really cared too much about the white outline, but it looks so much better like this (which actually still has a bit of an outline, but it’s more like a white “sheen” that is most noticeable at the top of the character models)

The pop up book artstyle is wonderful and works well with the crafted objects reminiscent of those in Color Splash / Origami King.
 
I think more than sales or critical reception (unless it’s a massive success or an absolute disaster disaster) the team will return to the RPG style if they feel like they can bring something new to the table.
 
I doubt it means much for gameplay, they seem fairly set on experimenting a lot, but I could see this game being a push for them to start getting wackier with new enemies and characters that aren't directly tied to the crafts gimmick.
Still think the next one will probably still have a story about whatever craft they were thinking about that day.

How they go from here with the battle system is anyone's guess though really. I'd like it to either lean further into being an RPG or lean away from that and become a full adventure game like Zelda, but I feel like since that's the thing that's changed the most throughout the series, there's not much way to tell where they go with that.
 
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I don’t think they’ll return to a pure RPG experience after the TTYD remake, but what I DO think it will lead to is more creativity with the Mario character designs. The way they tiptoed around staying off-model in TOK was by including a completely new type of characters with the Origami folk. I’m hoping after TTYD we get more varied designs with toads, goombas, koopas, and the like.
 
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I could see the next Paper Mario being more like TTYD story/character-wise but still more an adventure game like Origami King (they REALLY need to think out the battle system though or juts scrap it all together); I still maintain Sticker Star wouldn't be (as) widely hated if it'd kept its original plot/characters/partners we know were still in the game even after the swap to the sticker gimmick. Like, when I replayed it a few years ago I was surprised at how poorly Super played but it still has a fantastic plot/characters/writing that do a lot of the heavy-lifting.

Especially if Super Mario RPG turns into its own sub-series, I don't think Paper Mario has to stay a JRPG, but I do think they need to think through what they want the series to be exactly.
 
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