TsarOfAbility
Piranha Plant
Good redemption arc with a baaaad turn at the end
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Fun Club What are your thoughts on Pikmin as a franchise?
- Thread starter Derachi
- Start date
Bulborb
Tektite
- Pronouns
- he/him
Thats why I think they are better though.
romanithegreat
Piranha Plant
My 2nd favorite nintendo ip after zelda
Stilt Village
GBA
I would say there's a trend with modern Nintendo games of making them overly bloated in a way that intentionally discourages completionism and maybe relies a bit much on first time novelty (you saw this a lot with people docking TotK for not being new enough) with noticeably simplified level design compared to past entries? Maybe that's what it's about? Personally I would call that more of a criticism on the games as a whole than their replayability though...
I would say most of them would/do not hold up on replays, and are just generally way too long to be very replayable anyway unless you skip most of it, but I'm not sure why that would be a common opinion since in the end I just like them a lot less than most did. But maybe there are a lot of people who might make the same critiques but don't think about games the same way or something?
slide's
Lucky bumper
- Pronouns
- he/him
yeah it's hard to point to one specific thing but I think what @Stilt Village is saying about bloatedness covers a lot of it. Odyssey and Pikmin 4 both have very "soft" endings where, once you roll credits, you're encouraged to just keep playing a bunch of new and remixed "post-game" content. it's a pretty straightforward process to actually play to 100% completion, something I never used to do in, say, Mario Sunshine or even Pikmin 2, and while it's fun, it ends up being a lot of video game. and so on a replay you can go just for the credits and ignore the game's encouragement to keep playing for some much further-off secondary ending, or start to dig into the extra stuff but then feel like you didn't quite "finish" the game if you didn't do it all. i've started two or three new save files in Odyssey since I first 100%'d it, but I don't even have a strong memory of where I left off any of those later playthroughs.
there's some stuff specific to Pikmin 4 too—the other Pikmin games encourage you to replay to clear it in as few days as possible, but the fact that the night missions and some of the side content add to your day count end up making it feel pretty meaningless. the night missions in particular massively inflate the day count for any 100% run (and are also honestly quite tedious to do a bunch of back-to-back).
and while an upgrade system could be an interesting thing to strategize on, choosing the ideal upgrades based on how far in you are to maximize how much you could advance or something, in practice, they just made me feel like I had an incomplete moveset and underpowered Oatchi & Pikmin until pretty far in. the "canonical" way to play the game (especially the missions) feels like it only arrives once you're near the end. restarting from the beginning without all those upgrades (with the exception of the initial Pikmin deployment limit, which I think is a very smart idea) just doesn't sound all that fun. this may be my biggest issue overall—some recent Nintendo games just feel like you're not playing the "real" game from the start, and they're so big it's hard to feel motivated to start fresh.
anyway, I accept I'm probably way off here. I very nearly made a thread about this perceived phenomenon after SMB Wonder came out and only had one save file per Switch profile, and in general it feels like it does some of the things I'm describing, but I didn't feel like I could articulate it well or come up with clear examples, and I still feel that way! but I think there's something there. I probably first noticed it with Astral Chain, but it's also true with Splatoon's single-player campaigns and probably some others I'm not thinking of right now.
Played a little Pikmin 2 on gamecube and it was fine. Then again on Wii where I liked it more, then 3 was pretty good, then I went back and played 1. Tried replaying all the versions and generally 3 was my favorite.
Played 4, and honestly bounced off, too much dialogue/characters I don't care about in the opening. And the auto aim is absurdly aggressive and I was constantly wrestling with it. And the game is too reliant on repetitive dungeon content for me. For me, feeling efficient, and often precise/accurate with some stressful paramaters was Pikmin at its best. So I don't like 2 and 4 as much. Basically in 4 being efficient matters less, because the timer is usually a non-issue in dungeons and there's no food/day restriction for days spent anyway, no enemies/rivals that really hunt/or build their own resources to contend with to make up for that and then I can't be precise in the micro either because the game seems to want to play itself. So the macro barely matters and the micro is a pain.
The dog is very cute though and the upgrade/resource spending for items etc adds a lot. Could really have started with Oatchi issuing commands, going back to 1 captain for a while was rough.
Sadly the night mode also feels like a bit of a nothing burger.
I may have had my fill with 1-3. 3 was already a miracle sequel. Its kind of hard to balance single player adventure game with some RTS style/command structure and for 4 they leaned in to the single player adventure game aspect more. The series is definately very unique though, so its cool to see something like it keep coming back with good production values.
1 8.2
2 7.7
3 8.5
4 7.9 If I'm being generous.
hey Pikmin - lmao/10
Personally I find pikmin 4 less replayable in that I just like it less. And the long opening sections are kind of a snore.
For a game like Mario odyssey I do agree its very novelty focused but the core gameplay is very very good. The controls and movement allow for a lot of freedom of expression and fun routing so I find it repayable simply because its very good. Having a lot of moons to pick from kind of helps....but there aren't really 500 good moons to get the post game challenges, maybe 400 or so? A lot really feels like filler that cheapens the whole collection thing. Its like if every single bombable wall in metroid had an energy tank or every trash can in pokemon had a rare candy. Its just fatiguing. But you only really have to do the main story and play for a couple of hours at most (assuming you didn't get a lot in them main story anyway) to get enough moons, so its not so bad. And you'll be finding secrets and triple jump hat bouncing chaining and sonic rolling along the way, which is inherently fun. And you can always just stop after the main story which isn't bloated at all and that's the best content anyway.
Played 4, and honestly bounced off, too much dialogue/characters I don't care about in the opening. And the auto aim is absurdly aggressive and I was constantly wrestling with it. And the game is too reliant on repetitive dungeon content for me. For me, feeling efficient, and often precise/accurate with some stressful paramaters was Pikmin at its best. So I don't like 2 and 4 as much. Basically in 4 being efficient matters less, because the timer is usually a non-issue in dungeons and there's no food/day restriction for days spent anyway, no enemies/rivals that really hunt/or build their own resources to contend with to make up for that and then I can't be precise in the micro either because the game seems to want to play itself. So the macro barely matters and the micro is a pain.
The dog is very cute though and the upgrade/resource spending for items etc adds a lot. Could really have started with Oatchi issuing commands, going back to 1 captain for a while was rough.
Sadly the night mode also feels like a bit of a nothing burger.
I may have had my fill with 1-3. 3 was already a miracle sequel. Its kind of hard to balance single player adventure game with some RTS style/command structure and for 4 they leaned in to the single player adventure game aspect more. The series is definately very unique though, so its cool to see something like it keep coming back with good production values.
1 8.2
2 7.7
3 8.5
4 7.9 If I'm being generous.
hey Pikmin - lmao/10
Personally I find pikmin 4 less replayable in that I just like it less. And the long opening sections are kind of a snore.
For a game like Mario odyssey I do agree its very novelty focused but the core gameplay is very very good. The controls and movement allow for a lot of freedom of expression and fun routing so I find it repayable simply because its very good. Having a lot of moons to pick from kind of helps....but there aren't really 500 good moons to get the post game challenges, maybe 400 or so? A lot really feels like filler that cheapens the whole collection thing. Its like if every single bombable wall in metroid had an energy tank or every trash can in pokemon had a rare candy. Its just fatiguing. But you only really have to do the main story and play for a couple of hours at most (assuming you didn't get a lot in them main story anyway) to get enough moons, so its not so bad. And you'll be finding secrets and triple jump hat bouncing chaining and sonic rolling along the way, which is inherently fun. And you can always just stop after the main story which isn't bloated at all and that's the best content anyway.
Bulborb
Tektite
- Pronouns
- he/him
idk almost every 3d Mario game the best parts are post credits. Look at Mario Galaxy, Galaxy 2, Super Mario 3D world, 3d land and of course odyssey. Almost every game I play now i look forward to the post credits sequeance more than any other part of the game. Like the last level on Super Mario Odyssey with the darker side of the moon is so damn hard but man its my favorite Mario level ever
- Pronouns
- He
Pikmin 1 would clearly be the best if it wasn't for the controls and some design decisions around the A.I. But overall, it has the best design in the series. It has the moody, subtly depressing atmosphere that made the Gamecube games so great, and taking this away is easily the bigest mistake Pikmin 3 ever made. I really don't like how the seriese lost that. The puzzle design here is for the most part just ... better than the rest of the series? Like, 2 might come close to some regard but I didn't find the puzzles memorable. The only one that really gets close to me is 3 with its last few levels. The balance is pretty good though I mainly think that's down to there only being 3 types as in a casual playthrough Yellow Pikmin are pretty OP. Though one of the ironies of it is that on a casual playthrough, Yellow Pikmin feel super OP compared to the rest because they are the only ones that can pick up bombs, withstand electricity, and go up branches. But apparently this is actually the game they're the worst in, because the amount needed to beat the game is astronomically low? Pretty funny but I find that weird because they're so useful on a casual playthrough. I also like how these early games make the Yellow Pikmin's jump arc being higher super important.
8.8/10, one of the best games Nintendo made but on the lower end of that thanks to some rough spots
Pikmin 2 is absolutely one of the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, which is to say it's still good. A lot of the first half of my playthrough was spent enjoying the game a lot, as the remixed levels here are great and honestly this game might have the best overworld levels in the entire series. They're so melancholic and they really make use of all your Pikmin. This game also has EASILY the best atmosphere in the series, because on top of the depressing melancholicness of Pikmin 1 you now have malicious actors, terrorizing monsters, and genuinely hilarious humor. This game makes better use of cutscenes than almost any Nintendo game. Unfortunately the second half of the game is just terrible, the caves are bad, and there's so many bad design decisions. This game proved that people love slop as long as it will extend their playtime.
6.0/10, easily the weakest
Pikmin 3 is just peak. Yes it's basically a dumbed down 1, but it's hard to overlook just how well designed it is in all aspects. I think some of the touches this game did to Pikmin's atmosphere, while a step back, also aren't as cynical as they may seem - making a Pikmin game where the melancholic and depressing atmosphere is more subdued ends up making the game feel almost like Breath of the Wild, where a lot of the world nature has already reclaimed, and it helps the juxtaposition later on of the bosses being more intimidating than in previous games and the final boss being an eldritch monster. Obviously I still prefer the atmosphere the Gamecube games are going for, but this is almost as nice in its own way and I like how it still feels like Pikmin because of the occassional reminders of what kind of world you are living in. The bosses are pretty cool, maybe a bit too easy but cool.
One of the great ironies of this game is despite Pikmin's time based nature being perfect for a game about whether you should go do one activity or another, like in Pikmin 2 and 4 where you have to decide between caves or overworld activities, Pikmin 3's linear structure actually helps the game a lot better thanks to the pacing just being on point. You never have an issue like you do in 4 where you did all the overworld content and now you have to go do some boring ass caves back to back to 100% the world. I do think this game placing less emphasis on 100%ing, practically no emphasis, makes it feel less clever and that's a bit disappointing. I'll also say that the big disappointment here is that fruit isn't better balanced, it feels like it should be pretty obvious that 1 fruit = 1 captain member and making a time based system that's balanced on how well you do in the game is so tantalizing but they just completely fucked it up and it ends up being the easiest time based game by far. I do remember thinking that the game was good but a bit underwhelming besides the last few levels on my first playthrough, but once you really know how to play Pikmin it's great. The last two levels are literally some of the best designed levels in gaming.
9.5/10
Pikmin 4 is a very clear example of how a game changing to be more popular isn't always better. I love games where I don't even have to think about how to do anything because I have a charge attack. Only the first two games had consistent challenge but this is just insulting. I love how much filler there is in this game. It's only made up for by some of the content being really good, mainly the time trials and the Olimar mode. But the biggest issue is that even the main content isn't designed amazingly or anything. I saw a lot of love for the levels in this game during its launch month, for example, and honestly why? I can only imagine it's down to the graphics or atmosphere and not much else because there isn't much there - even clever ideas like having a level based on water levels where you can only complete certain things near the end of the day is completely wasted thanks to how many mechanics are counterintuitive to it.
Just very bland, even if I had enough fun towards the end to counterbalance some of that, this game made me way less excited about the future of the series
7.5/10
So I guess my feelings on the series is that its massively inconsistent, just like how I feel about most Nintendo series I like
8.8/10, one of the best games Nintendo made but on the lower end of that thanks to some rough spots
Pikmin 2 is absolutely one of the worst Nintendo games I've ever played, which is to say it's still good. A lot of the first half of my playthrough was spent enjoying the game a lot, as the remixed levels here are great and honestly this game might have the best overworld levels in the entire series. They're so melancholic and they really make use of all your Pikmin. This game also has EASILY the best atmosphere in the series, because on top of the depressing melancholicness of Pikmin 1 you now have malicious actors, terrorizing monsters, and genuinely hilarious humor. This game makes better use of cutscenes than almost any Nintendo game. Unfortunately the second half of the game is just terrible, the caves are bad, and there's so many bad design decisions. This game proved that people love slop as long as it will extend their playtime.
6.0/10, easily the weakest
Pikmin 3 is just peak. Yes it's basically a dumbed down 1, but it's hard to overlook just how well designed it is in all aspects. I think some of the touches this game did to Pikmin's atmosphere, while a step back, also aren't as cynical as they may seem - making a Pikmin game where the melancholic and depressing atmosphere is more subdued ends up making the game feel almost like Breath of the Wild, where a lot of the world nature has already reclaimed, and it helps the juxtaposition later on of the bosses being more intimidating than in previous games and the final boss being an eldritch monster. Obviously I still prefer the atmosphere the Gamecube games are going for, but this is almost as nice in its own way and I like how it still feels like Pikmin because of the occassional reminders of what kind of world you are living in. The bosses are pretty cool, maybe a bit too easy but cool.
One of the great ironies of this game is despite Pikmin's time based nature being perfect for a game about whether you should go do one activity or another, like in Pikmin 2 and 4 where you have to decide between caves or overworld activities, Pikmin 3's linear structure actually helps the game a lot better thanks to the pacing just being on point. You never have an issue like you do in 4 where you did all the overworld content and now you have to go do some boring ass caves back to back to 100% the world. I do think this game placing less emphasis on 100%ing, practically no emphasis, makes it feel less clever and that's a bit disappointing. I'll also say that the big disappointment here is that fruit isn't better balanced, it feels like it should be pretty obvious that 1 fruit = 1 captain member and making a time based system that's balanced on how well you do in the game is so tantalizing but they just completely fucked it up and it ends up being the easiest time based game by far. I do remember thinking that the game was good but a bit underwhelming besides the last few levels on my first playthrough, but once you really know how to play Pikmin it's great. The last two levels are literally some of the best designed levels in gaming.
9.5/10
Pikmin 4 is a very clear example of how a game changing to be more popular isn't always better. I love games where I don't even have to think about how to do anything because I have a charge attack. Only the first two games had consistent challenge but this is just insulting. I love how much filler there is in this game. It's only made up for by some of the content being really good, mainly the time trials and the Olimar mode. But the biggest issue is that even the main content isn't designed amazingly or anything. I saw a lot of love for the levels in this game during its launch month, for example, and honestly why? I can only imagine it's down to the graphics or atmosphere and not much else because there isn't much there - even clever ideas like having a level based on water levels where you can only complete certain things near the end of the day is completely wasted thanks to how many mechanics are counterintuitive to it.
Just very bland, even if I had enough fun towards the end to counterbalance some of that, this game made me way less excited about the future of the series
7.5/10
So I guess my feelings on the series is that its massively inconsistent, just like how I feel about most Nintendo series I like
