Sales Data Updated sales numbers for Switch titles: Pikmin 4 (2.61M), Tears of the Kingdom (19.50M), and more

[Octavian]

Kinda feel like your projecting your own feelings on this

could be, you see what you aim at and I'm definitely in the camp that enjoyed BOTW but disliked TOTK.

I do think, objectively neutral as possible, he post-launch response has been more tepid to TOTK, and that's gonna grow with time. That's just what I've been seeing online and on social media these past few months.

 

[Mekanos]

The Zelda Reddit has 2 million users. Assuming they all bought TOTK and they all hated it… that’s 10% of the people who bought TOTK. Pretty useless to use online discussion as a bellwether for a game this big, I think.

 

[DecoReturns]

I don’t know. Sometimes I feel if you dislike something. You’re gonna start noticing the more negative response even if it’s a small minority.

but regardless of that. I’m just not seeing that noticeable of a negative view of TOTK. I’m seeing a lot of “it’s great, but the writing is missed potential” stuff. But the most common thing is that it’s a better game then BOTW just it doesn’t have that “wonder” that BOTW since it’s a sequel.

and frankly. BOTW came at a time when there wasn’t as many games to play on switch so the discussion continued as the library increased. It’s 6 years later and now there’s so much to play. I’m not surprised TOTK doesn’t have the same time dedication, there’s just too much to play and to talk about so often now.

 

[Lugia667]

Saw this discussion on Twitter, maybe a bit emotional because I’ve had a bit to drink, but I hate this!!! It’s inspired such a passionate disgusted reaction in me!

Bayonetta is such a unique protagonist in the industry. High camp, fashion-forward, sex-positive female protagonist.. I’d sacrifice a million generic, silent protagonist, cop Astral Chain protagonists if it means we get 1 more Bayonetta game.

Bayo 3 is so good, I hope at least 1m+ is enough to secure it a future, it’s a bright spot in the industry and it STILL stands out 10 years later imo.

If it comes down to Bayo vs Astral Chain in the future, Bayonetta herself as a character is worth so much more than everything the Astral Chain IP has to offer multiple times over. I literally can’t lose her, I want her to be a Nintendo console and smash roster mainstay, I’d die if this series died

We literally have no idea what Nintendo thinks of Bayonetta 3, that entire Twitter thread is just projection. Kamiya leaving is probably a bigger concern though, hopefully he gave his ideas of what to do before he left (yes I knew he didn't direct 3 but he was still heavily involved)

 

[amiigo]

Also to be fair, Jon Cartwright was one of the many content creators who dug their heels deep in Helena Taylor's favor when the controversy happened, even after it was obvious she was lying, and ended up boosting a transphobe in the process. He has a bone to pick because he could never gracefully take the L

 

[LoneRanger]

Astral Chain IIRC took 5 years of development, not 3.

 

[Kreese]

Nintendo's more "core" franchises like Metroid and especially Zelda are ground-zero for console wars because they appeal to that market.

TOTK doubly so because it pushes the medium forward and notable devs essentially said Nintendo embarrassed their peers from a design standpoint with how incredibly deep and polished it is in its mechanics on weaker hardware.

The game is an outright triumph and masterpiece in game design whether or not you take to the personal direction the franchise is going.

Suffice to say, I find a lot of the negative chirping about the game from a vocal minority to be disingenuous with many complaints seeming like they're from people who have never even played the game for a sufficient amount of time.

 

[Zeal543]

Sorry but I don't like astral chain nearly as much as bayo

 

[Kartina]

I saw a community poll 2 months ago on youtube ranking all the Zelda games by votes.
The top 2 were Botw and TotK. Totk won the poll.
I don’t think the word of mouth for totk is bad at all.

 

[Lozjam]

could be, you see what you aim at and I'm definitely in the camp that enjoyed BOTW but disliked TOTK.

I do think, objectively neutral as possible, he post-launch response has been more tepid to TOTK, and that's gonna grow with time. That's just what I've been seeing online and on social media these past few months.

This is classic confirmation bias.

Yall are living in a bubble if you think TotK has a tepid response. Literally, this is the same argument the "honeymoon phase" people made for BotW.

 

[Phendrift]

Nintendo's more "core" franchises like Metroid and especially Zelda are ground-zero for console wars because they appeal to that market.

TOTK doubly so because it pushes the medium forward and notable devs essentially said Nintendo embarrassed their peers from a design standpoint with how incredibly deep and polished it is in its mechanics on weaker hardware.

The game is an outright triumph and masterpiece in game design whether or not you take to the personal direction the franchise is going.

Suffice to say, I find a lot of the negative chirping about the game from a vocal minority to be disingenuous with many complaints seeming like they're from people who have never even played the game for a sufficient amount of time.

I will say I agree that it’s almost laughable how good Tears is.

Sure it’s iterative, but that’s what allowed it to be as expansive as it is. Game builds so much on its predecessor that you could arguably count BotW’s development time as part of TOTK’s and say TotK has been in development for a little over a decade, and it shows in the final product.

The next game may be more fresh from a presentation standpoint, probably with a new world and perhaps even a new art style, but if they really do “start fresh” I see if being a pretty big reduction in scope and possibilities. So I’m gonna cherish TotK for now, it’s the ultimate Zelda game and embodies everything I love about the series.

It’s almost a Smash Ultimate problem, except I see the Zelda fanbase being way more receptive of an art style and presentation change but gutting of scope and less gameplay variety than I see the Smash fanbase being receptive of gutting the roster.

 

[ILikeFeet]

It’s almost a Smash Ultimate problem, except I see the Zelda fanbase being way more receptive of an art style and presentation change but gutting of scope and less gameplay variety than I see the Smash fanbase being receptive of gutting the roster.

On the internet maybe. But Smash is very casual that I don't think a lot of the content even condenses into a meaningful memory to them. They know there is a lot of stuff, but don't have a strong attachment to.

 

[PixelKnight]

Just to set out some thoughts on Bayo vs Astral Chain. I’ve played both but while I finished neither, I thought Bayo at least is very clear about what it is, a balletic 3D action game.

Astral Chain had some nice ideas with investigation and chase sections breaking up the standard arena combat. The core mechanic of the chain itself, using it to clothesline and bind enemies while the drone attacks, is interesting and a fresh idea in 3D, it reminds me of R-Type in that a lot of your attack strength is in this secondary character that varies between direct support and engaging enemies far away. But, I found it really hard to keep an eye on both, and the chain, and still attack/dodge as the main character. There was so much going on that it never really clicked for me.

On top of that, the investigation sections, while offering more relaxed pacing and time to explore the world a bit, still suffered in the way a lot of action games do in making it all so obvious that it doesn’t really feel like much investigation is going on. It doesn’t really require the player to think or apply logic to solve problems really, just click on things in the environment in the right order or use the right (and probably the newest) ability. Although, to be fair, it’s still not the worst offender on the gaming list of ‘main character is a fantasy ace investigator, time to investigate’. On top of all that, even the otherworld combat arenas suffer from the same thing as so many video games as saying ‘this weird alien dimension is yours to explore, it’s scary and strange!’ But it turns out it’s just dull geometric platforms in the mist, like every other mundane rpg otherworld I’ve ever seen.

I don’t know. I thought it had some nice ideas but didn’t gel at all together as a game, and weirdly its core combat mechanics aren’t as intuitive as it thinks, while the investigation elements are too simplistic. Whereas while Bayo isn’t my first choice of what to play either, it at least had a much more elegant identity from its first game in what it is.

Annnyway, despite all that I still think the studio is obviously talented and I look forward to what they do next.

 

[meatbag]

On the internet maybe. But Smash is very casual that I don't think a lot of the content even condenses into a meaningful memory to them. They know there is a lot of stuff, but don't have a strong attachment to.

Yup, as long as the next Smash also has a ton of characters, people will buy it. That’s true for a lot of fighting games honestly. Most people don’t have a main, they just cycle through the characters they think looks good, or jives with how they play.

 

[404LinkNotFound]

Just to set out some thoughts on Bayo vs Astral Chain. I’ve played both but while I finished neither, I thought Bayo at least is very clear about what it is, a balletic 3D action game.

Astral Chain had some nice ideas with investigation and chase sections breaking up the standard arena combat. The core mechanic of the chain itself, using it to clothesline and bind enemies while the drone attacks, is interesting and a fresh idea in 3D, it reminds me of R-Type in that a lot of your attack strength is in this secondary character that varies between direct support and engaging enemies far away. But, I found it really hard to keep an eye on both, and the chain, and still attack/dodge as the main character. There was so much going on that it never really clicked for me.

On top of that, the investigation sections, while offering more relaxed pacing and time to explore the world a bit, still suffered in the way a lot of action games do in making it all so obvious that it doesn’t really feel like much investigation is going on. It doesn’t really require the player to think or apply logic to solve problems really, just click on things in the environment in the right order or use the right (and probably the newest) ability. Although, to be fair, it’s still not the worst offender on the gaming list of ‘main character is a fantasy ace investigator, time to investigate’. On top of all that, even the otherworld combat arenas suffer from the same thing as so many video games as saying ‘this weird alien dimension is yours to explore, it’s scary and strange!’ But it turns out it’s just dull geometric platforms in the mist, like every other mundane rpg otherworld I’ve ever seen.

I don’t know. I thought it had some nice ideas but didn’t gel at all together as a game, and weirdly its core combat mechanics aren’t as intuitive as it thinks, while the investigation elements are too simplistic. Whereas while Bayo isn’t my first choice of what to play either, it at least had a much more elegant identity from its first game in what it is.

Annnyway, despite all that I still think the studio is obviously talented and I look forward to what they do next.

I just hope that the sequel improves on the orginal by fleshing out the investigative scenes and also making the Astral plane more visually interesting with better platforming. Cuz ive seen people who wanna rip all of that out and make it yet another high speed balls to the wall stylish action game like Bayo and DMC and while i love those games i really liked AC's more slow paced vibes and having a lower skill floor. Despite its flaws i really really did enjoy it. A strong 8/10

 

[Octavian]

Nintendo's more "core" franchises like Metroid and especially Zelda are ground-zero for console wars because they appeal to that market.

TOTK doubly so because it pushes the medium forward and notable devs essentially said Nintendo embarrassed their peers from a design standpoint with how incredibly deep and polished it is in its mechanics on weaker hardware.

The game is an outright triumph and masterpiece in game design whether or not you take to the personal direction the franchise is going.

Suffice to say, I find a lot of the negative chirping about the game from a vocal minority to be disingenuous with many complaints seeming like they're from people who have never even played the game for a sufficient amount of time.

the shallow dungeons are absolutely not a masterclsss of game design and they're a big part of the game, for one.

TOTK's physics system and how smooth ultrahand and fusion seamlessly work absolutely deserves praise on the technical end. Doesn't mean the game design doesn't have faults or all criticism is coming from "disingenuous" individuals, that's just reductive. evaluate the merits of the arguments themselves instead of deflecting.

 

[Lugia667]

I heavily disagree that the dungeons are shallow. The puzzles that they offer are incredibly clever, especially the multiple ways you can go about them.

 

[PixelKnight]

I just hope that the sequel improves on the orginal by fleshing out the investigative scenes and also making the Astral plane more visually interesting with better platforming. Cuz ive seen people who wanna rip all of that out and make it yet another high speed balls to the wall stylish action game like Bayo and DMC and while i love those games i really liked AC's more slow paced vibes and having a lower skill floor. Despite its flaws i really really did enjoy it. A strong 8/10

Yeah, I agree. I think the mix of gentle investigation combined with frantic action areas in the Astral plane is a good idea for a game that differentiates it from Bayo/DMC. I just think each part of it needs work and fleshing out too, as the investigation is too simple, the Astral Plane not very interesting and the core combat mechanic of the astral chain itself not very intuitive.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I heavily disagree that the dungeons are shallow. The puzzles that they offer are incredibly clever, especially the multiple ways you can go about them.

For real. The TOTK dungeons, because of the games mechanics, are far more complex than anything the Zelda series has ever had; especially the fire temple, so... Whoever really thinks they're shallow must have damning things to say about the rest of the franchise.

 

[balgajo]

the shallow dungeons are absolutely not a masterclsss of game design and they're a big part of the game, for one.

TOTK's physics system and how smooth ultrahand and fusion seamlessly work absolutely deserves praise on the technical end. Doesn't mean the game design doesn't have faults or all criticism is coming from "disingenuous" individuals, that's just reductive. evaluate the merits of the arguments themselves instead of deflecting.

On the technical side, all abilities are great achievements that deserves to be celebrated. Plus, for me, except for arrow Fuse, they felt great while being used.
The problem is that they feel underutilized. Especially for Ultra Hand, it seems that they spent a lot of money on this but the challenges that the game presents is not proportional to the possibilities it creates. They created a bazooka to kill a mosquito. No doubt that Nut and Bolts is clunky but, at least from the few minutes of gameplay I saw, it seems to do a better job on taking advantage of the system they developed. Not wanting to write an essay but Recall was basically my way of bring vehicles back with some few good puzzles using it and Fuse was redeemed almost useless after I discover my optimal battle strategy.

Not saying that they weren't important to the game, but I can see them being replaced for a more simplified version of each, that wouldn't spent the same development time and need this level of polishing and still could give a similar experience to the average player. During my playthrough the only ability I felt it was really integral do the game was Ascend. Game really knew how to make use of it on several different situations and it doesn't feel underutilized.

So when I see this level of polishing where you can build stuff with 2000 objects, that can kill enemies on a 1km radius in a game that never gives the player a reason to do so, with very questionable dungeons and the terrible companion system, it makes me question about their priorities. That's why the prize that I particularly don't want it to win this season is best game direction. While I think Nintendo deserved with BOTW, as it's a much more cohesive package.

 

[Kreese]

the shallow dungeons are absolutely not a masterclsss of game design and they're a big part of the game, for one.

TOTK's physics system and how smooth ultrahand and fusion seamlessly work absolutely deserves praise on the technical end. Doesn't mean the game design doesn't have faults or all criticism is coming from "disingenuous" individuals, that's just reductive. evaluate the merits of the arguments themselves instead of deflecting.

You couldn't possibly be calling them shallow from a gameplay pov because as others have mentioned, there are factually many more ways to solve the puzzles using the games much deeper system of gameplay mechanics than the linear old formula of the Zelda dungeons. If you are confusing 'shallow' with the length of the dungeons it is true that the old linear-style dungeons themselves were longer in terms of play time, but I had a blast with the dungeons in TOTK. They have great entrances, along with really fun puzzles and boss battles. These types of briskly paced dungeons seem much more suited towards the open-air design philosophy of the newer entries. Longing for the older nostalgic formula shouldn't prohibit one from acknowledging that this is still a masterclass in game design.

As far as your comments about 'disingenuous' are concerned, I never stated that all critiques of the games sounded disingenuous to me as you now making it sound. I said "many of them" did (because said complaints sounded as though they were coming from people who never played the game) and I said so with the intention to avoid such a misunderstanding (although, again, even with the credible sounding complaints, I feel they're more rooted in personal tastes as opposed to the masterclass in game design that is TOTK... and that's perfectly fine).