StarTopic Third Party Support on Nintendo Systems |ST|

[Sadist]

Hello Fami friends, yes, you are reading this correctly, a third party discussion/information thread on Famiboards.

As seen in a recent thread, there is still a lot to do about third party support on Nintendo systems. Ever since its debut with NES Nintendo had the fortune of welcoming other publisher partners, or in this case third party publishers, to their respective consoles, handhelds and hybrids. However one can not deny that it's been a rocky road ever since the NES. As we are a Nintendo focussed board, its always been a talking point for fans of the Kyoto based company. And in terms of support, quotes, sales and more... there is a lot of incorrect information.

Lets just start shall we?

Early Nintendo

- As we all know, Nintendo's rise to power was partially due to Hiroshi Yamauchi, the former CEO of Nintendo who retired back in 2002. (He passed away in 2013). While Yamauchi was a great business man and had a good eye for talent (hiring Miyamoto back in the day, seeing potential in Iwata as the successor) and did great things to bring Nintendo in the limelight as one of the videogame greats, he did have his more unfortunate choices. It's an older article, but here is a quick overview of Yamauchi's time at Nintendo. While there are some wild stories going around, it is a fact that Yamauchi did have some strict rules for third parties on NIntendo systems, and gave the instructions to make the N64 more diffucult to delvelop to for . Which he acknowledged was not his best choice.

- There is also the great thread from Terrel telling a lot of how Howard Lincoln operated back in the day; You can find the thread here

- Btw, just as a fun little, piece of information; Apparantly the Final Fantasy VII move to PlayStation wasn't as dramatic according to Sakaguchi san

Sakaguchi: When we made our decision, the president of Square [Masafumi Miyamoto], our lead programmer [Ken Narita] and I went to a meeting with Yamauchi-san. There is an old cultural tradition where, in Kyoto, someone will welcome you with tea, but you’re not supposed to really drink that tea. It’s just polite to have it there. And Yamauchi-san welcomed us with a very expensive bento meal and beer, and gave us a very nice welcome and basically patted us on the back to say, “I wish you the best.” No bitter feelings or anything.

Although from the same story...

Kawai: What I heard was Nintendo said, “If you’re leaving us, never come back.”

Apparantly Nintendo was more upset with Square because they were convincing others to move with them to Sony, which was actually true. Square-Enix later apologized for this. This was featured in Chris Kohler's book Power Up. Polygon tried to get a story on this as well, but this was declined.

Nintendo in the modern age:

Currently with the Switch, Nintendo is really working on their relationships with third party developers. Where during the Switch launch things lookked rather rough with Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Disgaea 5 Complete and not a lot after that apart from a Skyrim release, the machine quickly turned into a must have machine and third parties tripped over themselves to get more games on the system. Better yet, as reported by Nintendo's latest financials there are over 6700 games on the system. Nintendo's support hasn't been this rich in years. That is why it is rather strange that so little can be found about third party reports on Switch, or thoughts about it by third parties. Sure, lets have some links here. (Videogame sales are secretive these days, outside of Japan)

And one of the more important pieces of information;

Through Nintendo's latest financials

Bethesda happy about Switch sales
The Saga remasters performed well on Switch
Mortal Kombat 11 was a succes on Switch, despite WB being hesitant about the Switch version at first
Falcom even decided on bringing Switch development in house

I kind of created this thread with the intention to create a place with facts, data and articles telling the story of Nintendo's third party struggles, but their succeses as well. I hope you guys can help me!

 

[Sadist]

Oops I posted too early, still working on stuff, my bad.

 

[uncleoptimus]

Nintendo in the modern age:

I thought that last line was some joke

Lookin like a banger OP!

 

[Sadist]

I thought that last line was some joke

Lookin like a banger OP!

Something went wrong lol. But I kind of want to collect articles, data and other stuff just to have some facts ready on Nintendo third party discussion.

 

[shoptroll]

That subtitle is

chef’s kiss

 

[Guaraná]

Favorited the thread to keep checking out as OP updates it.

I'm really interested in seeing how GTA Remaster is performing on Switch.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I think it's pretty clear that there still are a lot of misconceptions floating around not just among gamers but also at third parties about what kinds of games Switch owners wand and would buy and I'm not sure it's going to be easy to shake some of these stereotypes. First it was kiddie, then casual but mainly just "Nintendo fans only play Nintendo games". There's numbers to back up that this isn't the case but there's always some that ignore them.

 

[TheMoon]

I would like to suggest that we change this subtitle into something that doesn't evoke awful feelings for a bunch of people, thanks.

 

[Sadist]

I would like to suggest that we change this subtitle into something that doesn't evoke awful feelings for a bunch of people, thanks.

It was meant as a cheeky comment, but if people do not like it, I already removed it.

 

[Marizza Pia Spiritto]

EA's founder, Trip Hawkins, said this about the NES and SNES and N64 and Mega Drive and Master System and Saturn era:

Sega-16: According to Steven Kent’s Ultimate History of Video Games, you had a certain “disdain” for consoles, and refused to publish for the NES because you would have had to tone down your games for the hardware. The Genesis, however, was much better suited for PC ports. How long did it take you to recognize that the 16-bit console market was worth getting into?

Trip Hawkins: Other than Acclaim, all the American publishers avoided the 8-bit Nintendo and had disdain for their model. None of us at that time appreciated how license fees could be used to subsidize hardware pricing and marketing, and thereby help companies like Nintendo build an installed base.

Also, the 8-bit systems were pretty limited, but then I heard about the 16-bit Sega plans. With the Genesis, I was probably the first American to “get it.” I had a lot of personal experience with the Motorola MC-68000 processor. We’d used it in the Lisa and the Mac at Apple. EA bought Sun workstations that used it. We ported Marble Madness from a coin-op machine that used it. It was in the Amiga and the Atari ST. In fact we had a good library of technologies and products that ran on the 68000. So I was very excited when I heard about the Fall 1988 debut of the Sega Mega Drive in Japan, which would come to the US in the Fall of 1989 as the Sega Genesis. I had one of our guys buy one in Japan very quickly so we could study it. I loved the idea of a solid 68000-based machine for under $200. Within weeks I had decided we should have an aggressive strategy to support it via a reverse engineering strategy so we would not need a license. We released our first Genesis games in June, 1990. I am not exaggerating, but it literally took three years for any other major third parties to show up with any kind of reasonable commitment of products for the Genesis. As a result, EA and Sega divided up most of the market.-]​

Sega-16: There’s been some measure of controversy over whether or not EA had a preference for the Genesis over the SNES. Some people have even gone so far as to say that the SNES received inferior ports of Madden and NHL Hockey, as well as other titles. Is there any truth to this? Was the Genesis ever given preferential treatment, or were both consoles treated equally?

Trip Hawkins: EA certainly did the best job it could for both machines, but the Genesis was in the market 2 years earlier so the software engines had a big lead. And Nintendo was trying, and failing, to achieve backwards-compatibility which forced them to use the inferior 65816 processor. As a result, the Genesis had faster drawing speed, although the SNES had a larger color palette. As a result, the Genesis was a better machine for sports games that did not need the extra colors as much as they needed a good frame rate. Nintendo was better suited for conventional Mario games that were 2D at the time.​

Sega-16: The laundry list of conflicts between the Japanese and American branches of Sega is well known, and this is most likely what cost it the top spot in the industry. EA was going in a different direction at the time with the 3DO and eventual Playstation support. The 32X and Saturn didn’t receive much support, which was a common theme among 3rd party developers at the time. When did you finally decide it was time to let go of your strong support of Sega and move on? What prompted the decision?

Trip Hawkins: I don’t think conflict between the Sega offices really had anything to do with EA’s support. When it came down to it, EA threw its full support to Saturn but Sony just beat Saturn in the marketplace. Even Nintendo privately told me that they had never seen anything like the brand power of Sony.​

Interview: Trip Hawkins (Founder of Electronic Arts) – Sega-16

www.sega-16.com

and this one

Trip Hawkins: Nintendo Ran A "Feudal" Development System

Speaking at the GamesBeat 2011 conference in San Francisco today, current Digital Chocolate CEO and former EA founder Trip Hawkins had some harsh works for Nintendo and console platforms in general.

www.gameinformer.com

 

[curl-6]

Oddly enough, the Nintendo system I own the most third party games for is the Wii.

It just had so many mid-budget/AA titles that really appealed to me, like No More Heroes 1 & 2, de Blob 1 & 2, Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Rayman Origins, Deadly Creatures, Sonic All Stars Racing, Medal of Honour Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, Dead Space Extraction, House of the Dead Overkill, Muramasa...

 

[Marizza Pia Spiritto]

Oddly enough, the Nintendo system I own the most third party games for is the Wii.

It just had so many mid-budget/AA titles that really did for me, like No More Heroes 1 & 2, de Blob 1 & 2, Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Deadly Creatures, Sonic All Stars Racing, Muramasa, Medal of Honour Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, Dead Space Extraction, House of the Dead Overkill...

right. I played Manhunt 2 on the Wii. It was probably the most violent and kind of disgusting game I've ever played. It was on the Wii lol. By Rockstar. But it was censored compared to the PS2 version

and Bully Wii is great.

 

[Guaraná]

I think most of 3rd party absences nowaday are due to hardware and storage limitations.

 

[xghost777]

Hoping this fits the thread since I’m not terribly sure what it’s about or not yet, but the most exciting third party support for Switch moving forward to me is the four Trails games coming out over the next two years together with Falcom finally putting out their own Switch ports. The Trails series of RPGs, which amazingly tells a grand epic tale across 11 directly connected JRPGS and counting, is perfect for Switch. So it’s a shame then that the only games on it thus far, Cold Steel III and Cold Steel IV, are literally the Avengers Infinity War and Endgame of the series making them impossible to recommend to anyone not on board. In 2022 we are getting Trails From Zero the fourth game in the series and the start of the Crossbell duology on Switch which is actually an excellent starting point for people to join. While it does feature a few returning characters, it’s actually the most standalone game in the series besides the first one as most of it focuses on new characters with local problems. I’ve played Zero and its direct sequel, Trails to Azure, on PC with the Geofront fan translation that serves as the basis of the official release and I can say first hand the two games are well worth getting excited about if you love JRPGs (Azure is especially amazing). In 2023 we’ll get Trails To Azure, a spinoff(?) Nayuta: Boundless Trails, and the latest game for America Trails into Reverie. By the end of 2023 then, we’ll have at least Trails 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, and Nayuta on Switch.

So yeah Falcom support is shifting for Switch and I find it a super interesting space to watch. Games 6 and 7 (Cold Steel, Cold Steel II) do exist on Switch in Japan, but it remains to be seen if they’ll make their way over here due to multiple companies involved. If we get the Sky Trilogy on Switch at some point (something I’ve wanted since the Switch launched) that would be miraculous for Switch and Trails fans as the first ten games in the series would be covered provided they come out here too.

 

[jariw]

Currently with the Switch, Nintendo is really working on their relationships with third party developers.

For non-AAA titles (that develop all their tools in-house), a big part of this work is related to having good support for middleware technology. Unity and Unreal 4 was supported from the launch of the Switch, and many more tools are available nowadays.

 

[Terrell]

Hoping this fits the thread since I’m not terribly sure what it’s about or not yet, but the most exciting third party support for Switch moving forward to me is the four Trails games coming out over the next two years together with Falcom finally putting out their own Switch ports. The Trails series of RPGs, which amazingly tells a grand epic tale across 11 directly connected JRPGS and counting, is perfect for Switch. So it’s a shame then that the only games on it thus far, Cold Steel III and Cold Steel IV, are literally the Avengers Infinity War and Endgame of the series making them impossible to recommend to anyone not on board. In 2022 we are getting Trails From Zero the fourth game in the series and the start of the Crossbell duology on Switch which is actually an excellent starting point for people to join. While it does feature a few returning characters, it’s actually the most standalone game in the series besides the first one as most of it focuses on new characters with local problems. I’ve played Zero and its direct sequel, Trails to Azure, on PC with the Geofront fan translation that serves as the basis of the official release and I can say first hand the two games are well worth getting excited about if you love JRPGs (Azure is especially amazing). In 2023 we’ll get Trails To Azure, a spinoff(?) Nayuta: Boundless Trails, and the latest game for America Trails into Reverie. By the end of 2023 then, we’ll have at least Trails 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, and Nayuta on Switch.

So yeah Falcom support is shifting for Switch and I find it a super interesting space to watch. Games 6 and 7 (Cold Steel, Cold Steel II) do exist on Switch in Japan, but it remains to be seen if they’ll make their way over here due to multiple companies involved. If we get the Sky Trilogy on Switch at some point (something I’ve wanted since the Switch launched) that would be miraculous for Switch and Trails fans as the first ten games in the series would be covered provided they come out here too.

If Falcom support shifting to Switch is your thing, you should read some of the translated transcript from their shareholder meeting today. OOF... but in a good way if you want games on Switch.

 

[Mr Swine]

I’ve never owned so many third party games on Switch as I did with the previous hardware.

Only thing missing is Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTAV which I hope gets released on the next system

 

[Herb Alpert]

If Falcom support shifting to Switch is your thing, you should read some of the translated transcript from their shareholder meeting today. OOF... but in a good way if you want games on Switch.

Harsh reality finally hitting lol
To the surprised of kondo, what was expected to happen is happening

 

[xghost777]

If Falcom support shifting to Switch is your thing, you should read some of the translated transcript from their shareholder meeting today. OOF... but in a good way if you want games on Switch.

Where could I find that? Or a brief summary whatever is easier.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Currently playing danganronpa and I can't believe how long it took until these games got a switch version. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to port these games while it was kinda obvious there were an audience for it...

 

[7threst]

If Falcom support shifting to Switch is your thing, you should read some of the translated transcript from their shareholder meeting today. OOF... but in a good way if you want games on Switch.

I am actually curious. Found this Twitter profile sharing some tidbits from the meeting but if you have a full transcript please share

 

[Terrell]

Harsh reality finally hitting lol
To the surprised of kondo, what was expected to happen is happening

Where could I find that? Or a brief summary whatever is easier.

I am actually curious. Found this Twitter profile sharing some tidbits from the meeting but if you have a full transcript please share

Courtesy of Aquamarine at Install Base's MC thread:

Q　製品部門の売上が落ちていて、プレステが振るわないために、スイッチへの移植を始めるとのことだが、なぜやや古い『那由多の軌跡』から始めるのか。なぜ看板タイトルのイースや軌跡シリーズではないのか。どのくらいの販売を見込んでいるのか.

Q: You said that you will start porting to the Switch because the sales of the product division are declining and Sony PlayStation is not performing well. Why are you starting with the slightly old "The Legend of Nayuta"? Why not a billboard title of the Ys or Trails series? How many sales do you expect?

近藤：最初に『那由多の軌跡』を選んだのはライセンス部門との兼ね合い。最新作はライセンスで契約してしまっていて、その後にスイッチ参入を本格的に決めて動いたから。まず動かせるのが『那由多の軌跡』だった

Kondo: The first choice was "The Legend of Nayuta" as a balance with the licensing department. The latest work has a license contract. After that, we decided to move into full-scale entries on the Switch. The first thing that could be moved was "The Legend of Nayuta."

近藤：スイッチ移植は『那由多の軌跡』で終わらせるつもりはなく、後続のタイトルも準備を始めている。目標の販売本数については、具体的な数については営業上の課題もあるのでここでは差し控えたい

Kondo: We don't intend to end Switch porting with "The Legend of Nayuta," and we're starting to prepare for subsequent titles. Regarding the target number of units sold, there are business challenges reporting specific numbers, so I would like to refrain from doing so here.

And @mariodk18 provided this translation from DeepL for the rest:

Q: "Trails of Dawn" was important for attracting newcomers to the Trails series, but its first week sales were poor (about 50,000 units). However, it sold only about 50,000 copies in the first week. There were some problems such as long load times, so it's not doing so well.

I'd like you to focus on creating a completely new game rather than horizontally developing "Nayuta's Trajectory" for the Nintendo DS. You should be able to outsource the creation of mob characters, etc., and release at least two new titles a year to increase exposure. I want to play Falcom's tasteful works, so I want you to set up such a system.

Kondo: The number of units sold for "Trails of Dawn" was "lower than expected" and we recognize this as an issue. Of course, the quality of the game is a factor, but I'm also concerned that the lackluster PS market, the decrease in print media in the process of publicizing the product, and insufficient PR activities may have been the cause.

Kondo: We see the PS4 standalone market shrinking in the future, so we need to do everything in our power to increase the number of platforms.

In Japan, we believe that we can generate more revenue by doing things on our own rather than licensing them. Just because we stopped making remakes and ports doesn't mean we can make two new titles a year.


Kondo: Of course, we're ultimately aiming to produce two new titles a year, and we've begun inviting engineers and designers from outside the company to work on them. However, producing two new games a year at the level of the Trajectory series is heavy. We still need a system that can manage the development team. We're cultivating them intensively in stages, so I hope you'll give us a long look.

Basically, Nihon Falcom's president throwing legit shade at Sony and committing to Switch ports.

 

[xghost777]

Courtesy of Aquamarine at Install Base's MC thread:

And @mariodk18 provided this translation from DeepL for the rest:

Basically, Nihon Falcom's president throwing legit shade at Sony and committing to Switch ports.

Thanks for sharing all of that! I definitely wasn’t expecting when I made my post yesterday we’d get such a substantial update on the topic less than 24 hours later lol. I know it won’t matter until farther down the road, but I hope NISA not having to do the ports anymore will somewhat speed the localization process up even if just by a month or two now that they are soon to be three games (plus Zero/Azure/Nayuta) behind. No idea how their processes worked.