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Discussion Samus Returns and especially Dread got great reception, can we finally recognize that Other M was just a fluke in Yoshio Sakamoto's career?

C

Comic Obsessed

Chain Chomp
I wasn't that big of a fan of Samus Returns because of some questionable decisions (mainly being on 3DS) but I'm currently playing Dread and I'm absolutely loving it, it pretty much fixes all of the issues I had with SR, you constantly get lost but at the same time you're constantly progressing, the only other game that gave me this feeling recently is Hollow Knight but Dread's advantage is that it has much better controls that makes it a joy to keep playing.

However, is funny to think that there was a time when people were not that excited about Yoshio Sakamoto handling the Metroid franchise again due to Other M's issues. A lot of gamers, even Youtubers mentioned that they were fearing about Sakamoto handling Samus Returns once that was announced and even after release they didn't think that highly about it. Nonetheless, Dread seems to have changed everyone's mind and consider it the greatest game in the series.

So, with that in mind, I think is time that people accept that Other M was Sakamoto's only mistake, a big one obviously but they shouldn't disregard the man's work since he clearly still has the talent to guide the series.
 
This is just dumb. Metroid only exists because Sakamoto keep championing the IP. If not, the IP would have gone the way of F-Zero already. Nobody sane should ask for Sakamoto to step down.
Regarding Other M. I'm at this opinion that they tried too much without focus. It's was the first 3D Sakamoto Metroid, had high production values and tried to be a hybrid between 3D and 2D series. Had been sucessful, the 3D-2D hybrid would be the foundation of future Metroids like Dread and Samus Returns. But the story and characterization was dumb. Still, Other M clearly laid out the foundation for modern Samus, gamers liking it or not.
 
It wasn't a fluke. A fluke implies it came about by bad luck or something that wasn't the fault of his decisions. That's not true.

However, the man learned from his errors, and course corrected them in a way that turned out great for the series. And that's great. Discarding the idea that a person can make a series of mistakes as a fluke doesn't make sense, the important thing is whether you can learn from them.

The thing that disappointed people most was it lead to an effective 13 year gap with no good 2d releases, 19 if you omit remakes, and that Other M effectively ended serious investment in the series for a decade until a third party stepped in with a pitch Nintendo liked. There's a non-zero chance that if MS hadn't approached them, the 2D series would still be quietly sitting alongside F-Zero.
 
True Gs already knew that since he's a producer for the WarioWare, Rhythm Tengoku and various Mii projects. Everyone who called him a hack were just revealing they never played these excellent games a.k.a. self ownage.
 
From everything we know about the development of Other M it was just a perfect storm of bad decisions in a bad partnership. It started with Sakamoto's idea of a "NES+" game and Team Ninja wanting to make a 3D game. I don't think it had much to do with bad luck. Also, a fluke is generally used for something positive happening accidentally. Other M was definitely a misstep though.
 
Koren Lesthe said:
Wasnā€™t Yoshio involved with Super Metroid, Fusion and Zero Mission too ? I really think we can forgive Other M ^^
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He was involved with Metroid from the start. The OG NES. He was one of the main developers of the original. He's called the father of the franchise nowadays because of Super Metroid and because he's the only OG NES Metroid developer involved in the franchise(Could be wrong here though).
 
Yeah, we can. I think by now he's more than shown he does have what it takes to keep steering the series.

He is absolved of his baby crimes.
 
I'm happy for Sakamoto to have successfully revitalized 2D Metroid with championing Samus Returns and now Dread at Nintendo. I thought that him getting vilified after 1 bad game and people asking for him to be off the franchise was awful.
 
That is hard to reconcile considering the heavy overlap Other M had with Zero Mission and Fusion. It seems more likely that he just doesn't care as much about the story of Samus anymore the way he did when Other M released and let Mercurystream take over.

Grunge Hamster said:
Also I think there was the thing about localization:
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I wish people would stop sharing this video. All of this stuff comes from this one video, and it's the equivalent of "actually in the real Japanese Luffy calls Crocodile a motherfucker during their fight" fan translations. The US translation is different in a few slight ways from what it could have been but the overall vision is the same.
 
Have to say, i liked Samus Returns A LOT, specially the gameplay (which is a big improvement over previous games) even running at 30fps.

It's a mid table quallity game but, really good after all, i prefer it to Fusion even (too linear and guided for my tastes).
 
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Sakamoto has an overall great career if you look at all the games he was involved in. People that always bring up Other M to point out that he's bad at his job are just not thinking straight.
 
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Blaming one person for an entire game's development is already starting off on the wrong foot. Regardless, not every project can be a masterpiece. I hate Other M for a myriad of reasons, but nobody who worked on it set out to make a bad game. Sometimes things just fall apart.
 
Sakamoto has a very impressive carreer full of hits in different genres, people were always ridiculous about him after Other M.
 
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IIRC it was the result of a messy development structure. Team Ninja did their best but some producers on the Nintendo side only contributed to the development via emails. Needless to say they probably realized it was a bad idea from the get-go.
 
evilmonkey said:
IIRC it was the result of a messy development structure. Team Ninja did their best but some producers on the Nintendo side only contributed to the development via emails. Needless to say they probably realized it was a bad idea from the get-go.
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Sakamoto wanted a 2D game, Team Ninja wanted a 3D game. they compromised and what we got was Other M's control method. the blame isn't so lopsided
 
The story is absolute dogshit, and Sakamoto absolutely deserves to get dragged for that, even after SR and Dread. "Definitive statement on Samus's character" my ass.
Brock Reiher said:
That is hard to reconcile considering the heavy overlap Other M had with Zero Mission and Fusion. It seems more likely that he just doesn't care as much about the story of Samus anymore the way he did when Other M released and let Mercurystream take over.


I wish people would stop sharing this video. All of this stuff comes from this one video, and it's the equivalent of "actually in the real Japanese Luffy calls Crocodile a motherfucker during their fight" fan translations. The US translation is different in a few slight ways from what it could have been but the overall vision is the same.
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THIS! Just because a few lines were changed doesn't mean the plot is somehow improved. Adam still shoots Samus in the back, disabling her armor in one shot while a live Metroid is in the room, takes half a minute to shoot said Metroid, and then waltzes off with the final level, telling Samus it's for her own good. Garbage.
 
BGBW said:
True Gs already knew that since he's a producer for the WarioWare, Rhythm Tengoku and various Mii projects. Everyone who called him a hack were just revealing they never played these excellent games a.k.a. self ownage.
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I totally agree
This unfortunately happens too often online

I've even seen people calling Tanabe an bad game designer/director because of Federation Force, and I mean...
 
Robert said:
The story is absolute dogshit, and Sakamoto absolutely deserves to get dragged for that, even after SR and Dread. "Definitive statement on Samus's character" my ass.

THIS! Just because a few lines were changed doesn't mean the plot is somehow improved. Adam still shoots Samus in the back, disabling her armor in one shot while a live Metroid is in the room, takes half a minute to shoot said Metroid, and then waltzes off with the final level, telling Samus it's for her own good. Garbage.
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Wait, so even if he continues to make good games, he should always be known for making one bad game, even if later games he shows he's learned his lesson?
 
I think people were right to be concerned about him being involved in Samus Returns before its release. Sakamoto has literally never apologized for how Other M turned out and has stated multiple times that heā€™s proud of it and that it was ā€œthe story he wanted to tell.ā€

Judging by how Samus Returns and Dread characterize Samus, though, I think that Sakamoto and the other creatives involved in the writing process at least understand how poisonous Other M was to the franchise and will avoid going down that road again. And thatā€™s fine enough for me. Sakamoto can love the awful writing in Other M as much as he wants as long as he can keep it out of future projects. I donā€™t want the series to die for a decade again.
 
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xaszatm said:
Wait, so even if he continues to make good games, he should always be known for making one bad game, even if later games he shows he's learned his lesson?
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Maybe I should have worded that better. I've seen a few people say "why do you keep talking about Other M, even after Samus Returns and Dread?" Basically, people think we should simply let Other M go now that we've got good Metroid games from Sakamoto, when it wasn't really about that. His development resume for both before and after Other M isn't in question; I'll more than happily play anything else he's made. Other M's plot is just that goddamn bad that it crosses over into downright offensive. Sakamoto does deserve some stick for that.
 
Nah, I enjoyed it quite a bit. The linear nature is what's holding it back but it was a different kind of Metroid experience and I am a fan of experimental type of games. Dread is much better though, but Other M was fine. Just not the Metroid everybody wanted it to be. Nintendo failed and moved on and learned their lessons. It is part of what makes Dread so good.
 
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I never held Other M solely against him to begin with, so heā€™s fine in my eyes.
 
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Other M has a stupid plot and dumb pixel hunting sections but as a whole it is a very good game.

Or I enjoyed it back in 2011.
 
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Yeah, I'm not ready to absolve Sakamoto for Other M. It's still clear to me that Samus' depiction in that game is how he really sees her, and how she was always intended to be. Which sucks, and it does still colour my opinion of the entire series. They need to make the game officially non-canon (I don't consider it canon, but I'd like it official) and then the healing can start.

Glad that the series was able to get back on track under his stewardship, though.
 
I don't care that Other M has a bad story. I don't care about the story in any of the games. They're mostly generic space opera stuff. I care that it's not a good game.
 
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part of my problem with Other M was that Fusion had a lot of the same issues. (took place on a ship, adam always telling you where to go.) so to see Other M take the baton in that direction it felt like that's where the series was going.

another aspect of Other M was that it was a victim of a classic nintendo mandate of forcing the dev to utilize console gimmicks in gameplay (see: Star Fox Zero). this is incorrect. left for posterity

we forgive you, king.
 
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Sejes said:
classic nintendo mandate of forcing the dev to utilize console gimmicks in gameplay (see: Star Fox Zero).
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That was on Sakamoto. He wanted the game to be able to be played using the horizontal orientation, like a NES controller. Of course such control scheme doesn't goes well with a 3D action title.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
That was on Sakamoto. He wanted the game to be able to be played using the horizontal orientation, like a NES controller. Of course such control scheme doesn't goes well with a 3D action title.
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That's just because Sakamoto originally wanted to make Other M a tried and true 2D Metroid game.

www.ign.com

GDC 10: Metroid Director Wanted Classic Controls - IGN

At the Game Developer Conference in San Francisco this morning, Nintendo Group Manager Yoshio Sakamoto held a panel to discuss his "unique" design style -- or rather, what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata thinks is a "unique" way of designing.
www.ign.com www.ign.com

Team Ninja stepped in to work on the project and was selected because the team played off the Nintendo-based team extremely well, bouncing ideas back and forth throughout the development. Sakamoto used a specific instance as an example: he insisted that the game would be an on-rails side-scrolling adventure that used the Wii remote exclusively like an NES/Famicom controller. But Team Ninja really wanted to make it a nunchuk-analog controlling game for 3D foreground/background exploration. Sakamoto stood firm on the Wii remote exclusivity. When the Team Ninja came up with an idea that could incorporate Sakamoto's Wii remote focus into a non-on-rails design, he was skeptical -- but when he finally saw what they came up with, he thought the solution was perfect. They called it "Famicom Game Plus."
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www.ign.com

Sakamoto on Metroid Other M: No Nunchuk for You - IGN

Late Friday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, I had the opportunity to talk with Metroid and WarioWare producer Yoshio Sakamoto. I used this half-hour opportunity to talk about the two upcoming projects, but I couldn't resist sneaking in a few zingers about past projects as well.
www.ign.com www.ign.com

Sakamoto: I want to clarify, I've seen lots of news stories out there that misinterpreted what I said about the on-rails part and may have gotten the wrong idea. What I meant, in the original concept, Samus could move back and forth but only on a fixed path, not that it was automatic movement forward constantly like in rail shooters...

Sakamoto: Ah, yes, Klonoa! Right. You got it. (laughs) I wanted to stick with the D-pad control scheme, and it was Team Ninja that found an interesting way to manage D-pad only movement in a 3D environment, and we were able to move away from that early design concept. This happened very early on, a very early stage in development.
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This is a case where everyone can be blamed. Team Ninja obviously for wanting to derail the game and deny us another sidescroller Metroid for another decade, but Sakamoto for ultimately approving 2D controls for a 3D action game. It was so clearly a bad compromise between two different gameplay visions. Other M is a game that tries to both be a 3D character action game like Ninja Gaiden but also a classic Metroid game with simple 2D controls, and it completely fails at being both.

Like if it really had to be a 3D Ninja Gaiden like, then Sakamoto should of at least allowed TN to use nunchuck controls. Otherwise he should of just put his foot down and keep the original gameplay vision in-tact of just being a classic Metroid game. Even if the story was gonna be awful and intrusive anyways, at least the gameplay still could of been fun enough. Basically a much more extreme version of Fusion.
 
Every great developers has hiccups or a bad game here or there. Thatā€™s understandable. You already know how great he is by looking at his decades resume in the industry.
 
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Heron said:
Yeah, I'm not ready to absolve Sakamoto for Other M. It's still clear to me that Samus' depiction in that game is how he really sees her, and how she was always intended to be. Which sucks, and it does still colour my opinion of the entire series. They need to make the game officially non-canon (I don't consider it canon, but I'd like it official) and then the healing can start.

Glad that the series was able to get back on track under his stewardship, though.
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Did he make all the calls on the story? I never played it and don't mind a game in the series trying something different, but every time I think about giving it a shot, the stuff I see about the story kills all interest in it.
 
Dinoman96 said:
That's just because Sakamoto originally wanted to make Other M a tried and true 2D Metroid game.

www.ign.com

GDC 10: Metroid Director Wanted Classic Controls - IGN

At the Game Developer Conference in San Francisco this morning, Nintendo Group Manager Yoshio Sakamoto held a panel to discuss his "unique" design style -- or rather, what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata thinks is a "unique" way of designing.
www.ign.com www.ign.com



www.ign.com

Sakamoto on Metroid Other M: No Nunchuk for You - IGN

Late Friday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, I had the opportunity to talk with Metroid and WarioWare producer Yoshio Sakamoto. I used this half-hour opportunity to talk about the two upcoming projects, but I couldn't resist sneaking in a few zingers about past projects as well.
www.ign.com www.ign.com



This is a case where everyone can be blamed. Team Ninja obviously for wanting to derail the game and deny us another sidescroller Metroid for another decade, but Sakamoto for ultimately approving 2D controls for a 3D action game. It was so clearly a bad compromise between two different gameplay visions. Other M is a game that tries to both be a 3D character action game like Ninja Gaiden but also a classic Metroid game with simple 2D controls, and it completely fails at being both.

Like if it really had to be a 3D Ninja Gaiden like, then Sakamoto should of at least allowed TN to use nunchuck controls. Otherwise he should of just put his foot down and keep the original gameplay vision in-tact of just being a classic Metroid game. Even if the story was gonna be awful and intrusive anyways, at least the gameplay still could of been fun enough. Basically a much more extreme version of Fusion.
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Well, Sakamoto ultimately had his wish and got the series back to 2D.

Team Ninja should also get their chance to make their own 3D action sub-series.
 
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He definitely misssed hard with the story of Other M. But with how Samus Returns and Dread have been. I think people are ready to acknowledge that it was a one off issue and that he learnt from it when future games were written.
 
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On a related note I feel like mentally I can appreciate Other M a little better now that that the series is alive again, and it's become clear the game didn't basically kill Metroid.

Funnily enough given that they're both developed by Team Ninja, I feel the same about Other M as I do about Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, you have to take them on their own merits and try to dissociate them from direct comparisons to their predecessors. If you can do that then I think they're both solid games admittedly with terrible stories.

EDIT: More directly on topic, I wouldn't hold the worst game someone made against them if they had an enormous body of other great work regardless.
 
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Dineren said:
Did he make all the calls on the story? I never played it and don't mind a game in the series trying something different, but every time I think about giving it a shot, the stuff I see about the story kills all interest in it.
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He made pretty much every call on the story, down to having a hand in the storyboarding and so on
 
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Aostia82 said:
I totally agree
This unfortunately happens too often online

I've even seen people calling Tanabe an bad game designer/director because of Federation Force, and I mean...
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Tanabe has been responsible for both my favorite game of all time (Prime 1) and most disappointing (Sticker Star) lmao
 
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Tanabe's track record is just really hit or miss tbh.

Like he was there for the entire Metroid Prime trilogy, Retro's DKC games, Luigi's Mansion 2 & 3, Punch-Out!!, etc but he was also there for gems like Metroid Prime Federation Force, Chibi-Robo!! Zip Lash (aka "buy this game or the series dies") and Paper Mario Sticker Star, as well as the other modern PM games but I guess people like those more.
 
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