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StarTopic Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door |ST| A Classic Re_rinted!

Concernt said:
I wasn't even at Superstar rank and too much of the late game was 1 Star Point enemies not worth fighting that simultaneously ate resources, which is essentially the same problem as Color Splash, where the incentive becomes to avoid fights.
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Not that it matters, since you finished the game already, but you can use the First Attack Badge to avoid encounters that would only award 1 Star Point. They even made it cost 0 BP in the remake to be more like the free effect you get from increasing health in the modern PM games. It's been a godsend for any sort of backtracking in particular.
 
VolcanicDynamo said:
Not that it matters, since you finished the game already, but you can use the First Attack Badge to avoid encounters that would only award 1 Star Point. They even made it cost 0 BP in the remake to be more like the free effect you get from increasing health in the modern PM games. It's been a godsend for any sort of backtracking in particular.
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I had it on as soon as I could, without it this problem would have been worse. Two point enemies aren't worth much more to me, while some one point encounters still got through it for... Reasons. The best way to deal with battles was always to avoid them come the final chapter.

To be clear not that I hated battling in this game, although I certainly didn't find it much deeper than other games in the series.
 
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Alright, so it's been a minute and I have to ask this somewhere.

Beaten the Remake (sans superbosses), and am a dyed in the wool TTYD fan since 2008. But, upon finishing the remake I have two lingering questions that I've never really thought before until now.

1. Does Mario still have the Crystal Stars? Obviously gameplay wise, it'd be weird to not have access to all the special moves in the post-game. But story-wise, does he still have them and in Super they're just put away somewhere? Cause in 64 the Star Spirits were rescued and summoned, but not actually in Mario's inventory, so it makes sense why they're not in TTYD.

2. After going through the Palace of Shadows observatory... is the Shadow Queen (and maybe Beldam, Marylin, and Vivian) an alien that arrived on Earth (a la Jenova)?
 
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yntsire said:
Alright, so it's been a minute and I have too ask this somewhere.

Beaten the Remake (sans superbosses), and am a dyed in the wool TTYD fan since 2008. But, upon finishing the remake I have two lingering questions that I've never really thought before until now.

1. Does Mario still have the Crystal Stars? Obviously gameplay wise, it'd be weird to not have access to all the special moves in the post-game. But story-wise, does he still have them and in Super they're just put away somewhere? Cause in 64 the Star Spirits were rescued and summoned, but not actually in Mario's inventory, so it makes sense why they're not in TTYD.

2. After going through the Palace of Shadows observatory... is the Shadow Queen (and maybe Beldam, Marylin, and Vivian) an alien that arrived on Earth (a la Jenova)?
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1. I think they're part of Rogueport's heritage. It wouldn't be very nice to take them away from there!

2. I think they're all shadow demons!
 
I’m now at 42 hours, 21 minutes played, Level 26, Partners fully maxed, and all Troubles complete. Now to decide whether to go ahead start Chapter 8 or make an attempt at the Pit of 100 Trials. I think I may be able to beat it with my extra damage and extra defense badges equipped plus being well stocked with 1up Mushrooms and those Whacka-Bump items. Never beat the Pit in the original so this will be a first!
 
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Clov said:
1. I think they're part of Rogueport's heritage. It wouldn't be very nice to take them away from there!

2. I think they're all shadow demons!
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Yeah, I’d like to think demons are a race, and the Shadow Queen is a demon. Probably the most powerful of them all
 
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yntsire said:
2. After going through the Palace of Shadows observatory... is the Shadow Queen (and maybe Beldam, Marylin, and Vivian) an alien that arrived on Earth (a la Jenova)?
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Curiously, what you're referring to here is text that was changed in the remake.

Here is the original translation/passage:
Complete All Seven... / So That We, the Great Ones... / Master of Shadow and Dark... / Can Live Again by the Stone...
Stones Have Power of Stars... / We Know the Stars Spurn Us... / And That the Skies Lie... / But the Stars Bring Balance.

Remake:
The stars up in the heavens shone / Carrying the lore of the sky / Carrying secrets from on high / By skill and might, engraved in stone.
Stones to rival the celestial spheres / The seven hewn by a fell hand / Feared far and wide across the land / Master of shadow, queen of fear.

My interpretation of the game's backstory is that the Shadow Queen was a demon and leader of a coven of witches that lived underground. In the first Paper Mario game, you venture around the globe rescuing star spirits that, together, have the power to grant wishes. People in the subterranean capital do not see the stars, and thus are deprived of its magic, and so the Shadow Queen created stone facsimiles of those wishing stars. The Crystal Stars' ability to grant wishes is shown in Ch. 3, when it miraculously revives Prince Mush. Similarly, in the climax of both 64 and TTYD, the stars (spirits and crystal replicas) channel wishes from across the kingdom to power-up the heroes, Spirit Bomb style. In the end she essentially made weapons that prospered against her, but in her grasp they theoretically could have accomplished anything.
 
The Pit is so stressful. I’m on Level 54 now and starting to get nervous. So much further to go still.

EDIT: Level 71 now. So close, yet so far 😫
 
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Rareware said:
The Pit is so stressful. I’m on Level 54 now and starting to get nervous. So much further to go still.

EDIT: Level 71 now. So close, yet so far 😫
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shit gets crazy in the last 10 floors, so be prepared. if you happen upon another shop dude dont be afraid to restock on items if you're out or running low
 
Puruzi said:
shit gets crazy in the last 10 floors, so be prepared. if you happen upon another shop dude dont be afraid to restock on items if you're out or running low
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I just hit Level 80 and am considering just bowing out right here. Think I should leave, go to Twilight Trail, and just level grind with Amazee Dayzees for a bit. I’m not feeling very confident right now lol
 
And that's a wrap! Pretty fun game overall, though I think for me that's mostly off the strength of a very good combat system and some neat dungeon design here and there. The scenarios were hit or miss though got better in the latter half of the game, the characters were fun but honestly calling them one-note might be a bit generous

I think that's actually one of my main problems with the game. The partners join and then are immediately relegated to flavored exposition and traversal tool. I'd have much preferred having distinct partners comment on each scene instead of giving them all generic flavored reaction dialogue.

The other main problem is that the game just really has no idea how to handle the non-dungeon overworld portions of the game, and so defaults to "walk back and forth and occasionally talk to a random NPC". Which is just...not terribly engaging gameplay, at least for me

Overall still enjoyed my time with the game and I can definitely see why it's so beloved

But also Bug Fables was better
 
Rareware said:
I just hit Level 80 and am considering just bowing out right here. Think I should leave, go to Twilight Trail, and just level grind with Amazee Dayzees for a bit. I’m not feeling very confident right now lol
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At a certain point, leveling up just doesn't mean as much, unless you're really hurting for BP
 
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Bought this and playing it for the first time ever. Just completed chapter 1, I guess? Basically just beat Hooktail and introduced to Bowser.

So far not really feeling this game. I beat Paper Mario 64 back in the day. So far this game feels worse to me. Bit of a drag to play. Makes me miss Super Paper Mario. Honestly makes sense why they kept changing the game formula each time after this one, because this is almost immediately stale.

I'll keep playing to see if it might get better, but so far... yeesh.
 
Prophet64 said:
Bought this and playing it for the first time ever. Just completed chapter 1, I guess? Basically just beat Hooktail and introduced to Bowser.

So far not really feeling this game. I beat Paper Mario 64 back in the day. So far this game feels worse to me. Bit of a drag to play. Makes me miss Super Paper Mario. Honestly makes sense why they kept changing the game formula each time after this one, because this is almost immediately stale.

I'll keep playing to see if it might get better, but so far... yeesh.
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First two chapters isn't that great. It gets better.
 
I am unsure how much of the postgame content I want to do in this. To be frank, by the Moon chapter I just... wasn't having much fun anymore.
 
I'm relieved to see others got that feeling of staleness too. By the time the moon came around and it slowed down movement even more... Wow. It's a game that really doesn't respect your time.

I am especially glad to see this sentiment out into words:
Prophet64 said:
Honestly makes sense why they kept changing the game formula each time after this one, because this is almost immediately stale.
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And it makes me think, honestly, with the developers knowing how Thousand Year Door felt to play, was "let's challenge ourselves, bring the setting back to basics and explore new gameplay", the idea that led to Sticker Star, all that bad? I think Sticker Star is bad in many ways, it's just very boring. But I think they were right to begin rethinking the Paper Mario formula after the second game.

I also don't think the games are as different as people say. Color Splash and Thousand Year Door still feel like two games in the same series to me. They even share their fair share of problems, and in a lot of ways I see how good parts of Color Splash were getting away from not so great parts of TTYD.

I STILL really liked Thousand Year Door, I see why it's so beloved, why some consider it their favourite game. But I also like Color Splash, and what it brought to the franchise!

I'm sure it's not too big an ask to want a deep baffle system and mechanically interesting levels. The Palace of Shadow Tower was suuuch a highlight of the game for me for being so darn close to that perfect vision. Absolutely a standout moment.
 
I'll echo the sentiments of the game not really respecting your time. It's never blatant, but there are so many little moments that build up into an experience that borders on excruciatingly slow at times.
  • So many moments where the level design is stretched too long or too thin, usually via unnecessary backtracking. I'm not just talking about the egregious moments either; there are so many times where you're forced to retread old ground for no reason other than padding. Flurrie's necklace, all the elevators and locks in the X-Naut Fortress, trekking down three separate hallways just to fight Gloomtail at a dead end, etc. So much of the game could've been streamlined.
  • Not an unpopular opinion, but there are some story moments that are just really damn annoying for no reason. Bartering with Flavio for the Chuckola Cola, having to walk through Keelhaul Key a second time to get the stupid wedding ring for the stupid Piantas after sitting through that awful dialogue exchange, having to jump on General White a dozen times to wake him up, etc. Again, it's a much longer list than it should be.
  • This one might be an unpopular opinion, but the segues between each chapter grew old quickly too. The Peach ones I can live with, even though they grew a bit long in the tooth by the end. But the Bowser sections? Hated them. Why was he even here? Just keep him as a Glitz Pit easter egg and call it a day, he didn't need to be in this game at all.
  • Even the moment to moment gameplay has a few annoying quirks. Having to wait for the star power to fill into your meter before you can act is a mild annoyance that adds up very quickly, and it's even more aggravating when the star meter is already full. The transition time into battles is a bit excessive too, although that might be due to hardware constraints.
Add in a few broader complaints, like the lackluster level design, disconnected world, and middling narrative, and I'm left a bit conflicted. I still love this game; the characters are a lot of fun, the presentation is incredible, the vibes are just lovely, and the core gameplay loop is very strong. There's just so many small things that snowball into bigger issues that hold the experience back. It's still one of the best Mario RPGs and the best Paper Mario game (at least that I've played, never played Color Splash and it's been years since I've played Super Paper Mario), but I don't think it's the untouchable masterpiece that a lot of people make it out to be.

The direction of the modern games is still faulty at its core though, and I hope they take the positive reception from this remake and combine it with what people loved in The Origami King to craft something truly special. The pieces are all there, just gotta fit them together right.
 
Thunder84 said:
I'll echo the sentiments of the game not really respecting your time. It's never blatant, but there are so many little moments that build up into an experience that borders on excruciatingly slow at times.
  • So many moments where the level design is stretched too long or too thin, usually via unnecessary backtracking. I'm not just talking about the egregious moments either; there are so many times where you're forced to retread old ground for no reason other than padding. Flurrie's necklace, all the elevators and locks in the X-Naut Fortress, trekking down three separate hallways just to fight Gloomtail at a dead end, etc. So much of the game could've been streamlined.
  • Not an unpopular opinion, but there are some story moments that are just really damn annoying for no reason. Bartering with Flavio for the Chuckola Cola, having to walk through Keelhaul Key a second time to get the stupid wedding ring for the stupid Piantas after sitting through that awful dialogue exchange, having to jump on General White a dozen times to wake him up, etc. Again, it's a much longer list than it should be.
  • This one might be an unpopular opinion, but the segues between each chapter grew old quickly too. The Peach ones I can live with, even though they grew a bit long in the tooth by the end. But the Bowser sections? Hated them. Why was he even here? Just keep him as a Glitz Pit easter egg and call it a day, he didn't need to be in this game at all.
  • Even the moment to moment gameplay has a few annoying quirks. Having to wait for the star power to fill into your meter before you can act is a mild annoyance that adds up very quickly, and it's even more aggravating when the star meter is already full. The transition time into battles is a bit excessive too, although that might be due to hardware constraints.
Add in a few broader complaints, like the lackluster level design, disconnected world, and middling narrative, and I'm left a bit conflicted. I still love this game; the characters are a lot of fun, the presentation is incredible, the vibes are just lovely, and the core gameplay loop is very strong. There's just so many small things that snowball into bigger issues that hold the experience back. It's still one of the best Mario RPGs and the best Paper Mario game (at least that I've played, never played Color Splash and it's been years since I've played Super Paper Mario), but I don't think it's the untouchable masterpiece that a lot of people make it out to be.

The direction of the modern games is still faulty at its core though, and I hope they take the positive reception from this remake and combine it with what people loved in The Origami King to craft something truly special. The pieces are all there, just gotta fit them together right.
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The transition time is just as fast as the original. It's not slow at all.
 
I started an FP, and BP upgrades only run today! I also did 30 floors of the Pit before chapter 2!
I really wish that they would've allowed me to skip text on my second file faster, though.
 
Concernt said:
I'm relieved to see others got that feeling of staleness too. By the time the moon came around and it slowed down movement even more... Wow. It's a game that really doesn't respect your time.

I am especially glad to see this sentiment out into words:


And it makes me think, honestly, with the developers knowing how Thousand Year Door felt to play, was "let's challenge ourselves, bring the setting back to basics and explore new gameplay", the idea that led to Sticker Star, all that bad? I think Sticker Star is bad in many ways, it's just very boring. But I think they were right to begin rethinking the Paper Mario formula after the second game.

I also don't think the games are as different as people say. Color Splash and Thousand Year Door still feel like two games in the same series to me. They even share their fair share of problems, and in a lot of ways I see how good parts of Color Splash were getting away from not so great parts of TTYD.

I STILL really liked Thousand Year Door, I see why it's so beloved, why some consider it their favourite game. But I also like Color Splash, and what it brought to the franchise!

I'm sure it's not too big an ask to want a deep baffle system and mechanically interesting levels. The Palace of Shadow Tower was suuuch a highlight of the game for me for being so darn close to that perfect vision. Absolutely a standout moment.
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The idea to try new things isn't bad in itself. They did that right with Super Paper Mario.

However the execution from Sticker Stars and onward was absolutely horrendous, starting with that game and just marginal improvements after that. These games respect the player's time even less. They honestly don't even try new things all that much seeing how similar the last three games have been, with TOK somewhat standing out.

TTYD is an old game, I find it pretty impressive how well it has aged. Some parts of the game didn't age as well. But I believe they've got something great here as a base, I hope they use this and improve on it for the next game.
 
Lucifer said:
The idea to try new things isn't bad in itself. They did that right with Super Paper Mario.

However the execution from Sticker Stars and onward was absolutely horrendous, starting with that game and just marginal improvements after that. These games respect the player's time even less. They honestly don't even try new things all that much seeing how similar the last three games have been, with TOK somewhat standing out.

TTYD is an old game, I find it pretty impressive how well it has aged. Some parts of the game didn't age as well. But I believe they've got something great here as a base, I hope they use this and improve on it for the next game.
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I agree the execution in Sticker Star is bad, but Color Splash is probably one of my favourites in the series.

TTYD shows its age at times and that's not always bad.

If we can have the best bits of both I'll be very happy.
 
I have to admit that I would shamelessly lap up a game that iterates directly on TTYD and takes not a single thing from later games that the remake has not already taken, as long as it has the amount of character TTYD does.
 
Concernt said:
I agree the execution in Sticker Star is bad, but Color Splash is probably one of my favourites in the series.

TTYD shows its age at times and that's not always bad.

If we can have the best bits of both I'll be very happy.
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Interesting, why is CS your favourite? To me it was just a better Sticker Star, looked great, had a great soundtrack, but I really did not enjoy the battle system and the bare minimum story. Overworld gameplay had its fun moments.

My ideal next PM consists of an evolved TTYD battle system, more open world exploration in the overworld like TOK and a batshit story like SPM. That's the sweet spot.
 
Melpomene said:
I have to admit that I would shamelessly lap up a game that iterates directly on TTYD and takes not a single thing from later games that the remake has not already taken, as long as it has the amount of character TTYD does.
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I believe the TTYD Gameplay and Battle Mechanics can be evolved. The same way 64 evolved into TTYD, so can TTYD evolve into something.

Though I wonder if Intelligent Systems has that ability. Paper Mario Wii was originally something that felt like a TTYD port, according to interviews. But maybe 20 years later, several experimentations later, they can deliver something that feels like a TTYD evolution
 
I actually kind of like the more intentional time wasters in TTYD and SPM since they’re meant as a joke at the player’s expense. Less so the less intentional ones more tied to game design.
 
WestEgg said:
I actually kind of like the more intentional time wasters in TTYD and SPM since they’re meant as a joke at the player’s expense. Less so the less intentional ones more tied to game design.
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I actually really like what happened to the General White search with the new shortcuts. It now feels entirely like a Scooby Doo Hallway Chase scene in which every time you enter a door, he’s just left another one.
 
ziggyrivers said:
I believe the TTYD Gameplay and Battle Mechanics can be evolved. The same way 64 evolved into TTYD, so can TTYD evolve into something.

Though I wonder if Intelligent Systems has that ability. Paper Mario Wii was originally something that felt like a TTYD port, according to interviews. But maybe 20 years later, several experimentations later, they can deliver something that feels like a TTYD evolution
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I believe it definitely has potential, we've seen it in the indie scene as well. Change is fine but at the core PM needs to be an RPG instead of dabbling in it like the last 3 games. Which just ends up with battles feeling completely pointless.


WestEgg said:
I actually kind of like the more intentional time wasters in TTYD and SPM since they’re meant as a joke at the player’s expense. Less so the less intentional ones more tied to game design.
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I love the part with the rupees in SPM, that was hilarious.
 
Lucifer said:
I believe it definitely has potential, we've seen it in the indie scene as well. Change is fine but at the core PM needs to be an RPG instead of dabbling in it like the last 3 games. Which just ends up with battles feeling completely pointless.
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This is especially true if Nintendo doesn’t intend on reviving the Mario and Luigi series for the time being. We need some kind of RPG-based Mario series, damn it.
 
Lucifer said:
Interesting, why is CS your favourite? To me it was just a better Sticker Star, looked great, had a great soundtrack, but I really did not enjoy the battle system and the bare minimum story. Overworld gameplay had its fun moments.

My ideal next PM consists of an evolved TTYD battle system, more open world exploration in the overworld like TOK and a batshit story like SPM. That's the sweet spot.
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One of my favourites. Despite my complaints, it shares that position with The Thousand Year Door - genuinely, I think they're both great! I think CS gets points for its momentum, there really isn't much backtracking, and when there is there's a MAP to go right there! It uses the "level" formula in ways I enjoy, there are options, bonuses, events, it's fun! Plus, the writing, my, the writing! Sometimes limitations bring invention.

I'd love to see a battle system that isn't afraid to reference Color Splash - using up a limited resource for better attacks, a roulette if you're stuck for options (which can happen in TTYD's battle system too). Like if you could use coins or star power to power up your hammer, rather than spending a significant chunk on a super special attack. It adds strategy.

As for the world of the next game - a fast travel map like Color Splash, the interactivity of The Origami King, the partners of The Thousand Year Door. I'd genuinely like to see a "world map" implementation as rich as Color Splash with the interconnectedness of The Origami King. Fast travel with interactivity, events, personality! There has to be a happy medium between plainly numbered pipes and mandatory level progression.

I like a LOT of Paper Mario (not Sticker Star though), and I don't want the developers to be afraid to implement elements from all of them (even Sticker Star).
 
Melpomene said:
I have to admit that I would shamelessly lap up a game that iterates directly on TTYD and takes not a single thing from later games that the remake has not already taken, as long as it has the amount of character TTYD does.
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Agreed
 
Lucifer said:
I believe it definitely has potential, we've seen it in the indie scene as well. Change is fine but at the core PM needs to be an RPG instead of dabbling in it like the last 3 games. Which just ends up with battles feeling completely pointless.




I love the part with the rupees in SPM, that was hilarious.
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I feel like Origami King, but with experience points and Partners, is an acceptable happy medium.


Concernt said:
One of my favourites. Despite my complaints, it shares that position with The Thousand Year Door - genuinely, I think they're both great! I think CS gets points for its momentum, there really isn't much backtracking, and when there is there's a MAP to go right there! It uses the "level" formula in ways I enjoy, there are options, bonuses, events, it's fun! Plus, the writing, my, the writing! Sometimes limitations bring invention.

I'd love to see a battle system that isn't afraid to reference Color Splash - using up a limited resource for better attacks, a roulette if you're stuck for options (which can happen in TTYD's battle system too). Like if you could use coins or star power to power up your hammer, rather than spending a significant chunk on a super special attack. It adds strategy.

As for the world of the next game - a fast travel map like Color Splash, the interactivity of The Origami King, the partners of The Thousand Year Door. I'd genuinely like to see a "world map" implementation as rich as Color Splash with the interconnectedness of The Origami King. Fast travel with interactivity, events, personality! There has to be a happy medium between plainly numbered pipes and mandatory level progression.

I like a LOT of Paper Mario (not Sticker Star though), and I don't want the developers to be afraid to implement elements from all of them (even Sticker Star).
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This could be next, judging by how both TOK and TTYD could be tied sales wise and Intelligent used that as feedback for the next game’s gameplay
 
Phendrift said:
What was the first one? New one looks like her regular render! And thank you!!
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The first one:

TTYD_NS_Vivian.png


The current one:

PMTTYDNS_Vivian_Artwork_2.png
 
I’ve thought this since I was little, but does anyone else feel like the game’s main villain - Grodus - is outshone by pretty much every villain in the game? In fact I’d say he was kinda done dirty.

His henchmen, the Sirens and Crump, have way more memorable and funny moments. Even the one-off chapter villains like Hooktail, Rawk Hawk etc.

Than when it comes time for his boss fight, it feels like he’s weaker than he should be due to having to be part of a Gauntlet with Bowser, who crushes him after. And then the Shadow Queen easily obliterates him lol.
 
Phendrift said:
I’ve thought this since I was little, but does anyone else feel like the game’s main villain - Grodus - is outshone by pretty much every villain in the game? In fact I’d say he was kinda done dirty.

His henchmen, the Sirens and Crump, have way more memorable and funny moments. Even the one-off chapter villains like Hooktail, Rawk Hawk etc.

Than when it comes time for his boss fight, it feels like he’s weaker than he should be due to having to be part of a Gauntlet with Bowser, who crushes him after. And then the Shadow Queen easily obliterates him lol.
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Yeah, you’re right. He’s even more lf a stereotype villain than the other ones. He’s very forgettable and what makes him memorable is that he’s tied to the general narrative
 
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Phendrift said:
I’ve thought this since I was little, but does anyone else feel like the game’s main villain - Grodus - is outshone by pretty much every villain in the game? In fact I’d say he was kinda done dirty.

His henchmen, the Sirens and Crump, have way more memorable and funny moments. Even the one-off chapter villains like Hooktail, Rawk Hawk etc.

Than when it comes time for his boss fight, it feels like he’s weaker than he should be due to having to be part of a Gauntlet with Bowser, who crushes him after. And then the Shadow Queen easily obliterates him lol.
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That was definitely one of the things they fixed in super Paper Mario
 
Having reflected on things more I think I would make an earnest argument that in terms of both the original and its remake, Super Mario RPG was both more timeless as a game and more accomplished in terms of the remake experience.

I don't know what it is about Intelligent Systems' oeuvre after Paper Mario 64, but for whatever reason it dawns on me that the Paper Mario games would go on to forget how to make compelling design for about three games straight where so much of what you do is pure wheel spinning. Super Paper Mario doing so perhaps literally at one point, but even being the most maximalist case of it where the level design is consistently atrocious in a game where that should matter more than any other facet of the game. Every time I return to TTYD I tend to find myself in a situation where I'm mainly playing it with the mentality of "Chapter 3 is when the real game begins", then by Chapter 5 I'm basically ready to beeline it to the end. I don't think this sentiment would've felt so prevalent to me if it were exclusively limited to the way pacing and levels were designed, but by the halfway point the battles are just too protracted for fodder encounters to stay engaging and usually require some resource loss to combat the lack of linear level scaling. No amount of diminishing extrinsic rewards can offset that feeling which was why I personally never cared about things like TOK's lopsided coin economy; if it's not fun after a while then it's just not fun regardless of whatever reward is at the end of it. Finally as was mentioned before by a few people, the flavor dialogue from partners is not nearly as nuanced outside of their initial encounters as I'd remembered for me to feel like the character work is more than texture.

There was a time in my life where I'd feel pretty indifferent about the notion that Super Mario RPG was a one-of-a-kind game that hadn't been meaningfully evolved or improved by its two successor series but in experiencing the remake of that game I feel like I've probably spent a lifetime selling that game short on some of its buck wild narrative beats and inventive storytelling (Mallow summoning rainstorms from crying has some ingenious narrative payoff for its time), and that its remake changes probably had a more meaningful impact on my enjoyment of that game than I would've expected. The changes to the combat in particular made what was already a much more engaging take on action command combat -- where you'd always have to memorize and change up less obvious timings for different weapon equips and against different attacks -- into something that fits the suitably breezy pace of the game, since fodder enemy battles sometimes last less than 10 seconds without having to spend a single consumable resource if you were skilled enough. All of that was carried aloft by a rich party that was allowed to rotate in and out of story moments to provide narrative depth, not just flavor.

Where the TTYD remake succeeds comparatively is in the way it proves that IntSys still sit on an incredible trove of artists who have the capacity to spice up a creative world full of vigor and whimsy that really rely on this Paper-like presentation more than people like to admit, but in this remake I feel now that there was a missed opportunity to tinker with the bones of this title more explicitly rather than applying a band-aid solution for its more easily contested elements. It results in a remake where its only value is as a replacement item to embellish, and in some respects I think that's fine, but it's a reminder to me that TTYD shows its age and that everything from combat, to overall design, to writing, could benefit from a rethinking of priorities even if they choose to revert to an RPG formula. I miss the "ideas" they had from this era, but less so the feeling that "idea guys" were lopsided on the scales.
 
Haven't posted about my playthrough here in a while cause I've been busy with other stuff, so I'm going to be working on a bigger write-up about my thoughts on the game as a whole soon! I'm really excited about it...!

For now, I just wanna say I'm so happy that there's TWO Vivian NSO icons and I have them both! But which one do I use...?
 
I just finished the game for the first time in 20 years and I'm a little disappointed, because it couldn't live up to my memory of it. Back when the original launched it was one of my favorite games period. But after 20 years of game design evolution and growth as a gamer and person, I have to confess boring level and uninspired dungeon design as well as the backtracking and the disconnected world drags it down for me considerably. It's somewhat surprising, since I re-played Paper Mario 64 twice on the Wii U and the Switch, and this one holds up remarkably well imo. Back in the day I loved both of them, but felt like TTYD was a step-up in every single way.

TTYD is still a good game and it improves upon Paper Mario 64 in some ways, like the battle system, the writing of the partners and the ideas presented in its story and world building. The execution is flawed, though. Right now I'd put TOK, M&L BIS, PM64, M&L SS and CS above TTYD (in that order, though the middle three are really close to each other). Dream Team is probably on the same level and all other games of both series below. Except for PIT which I haven't played since launch and won't include it for that reason.
 
scamander said:
I just finished the game for the first time in 20 years and I'm a little disappointed, because it couldn't live up to my memory of it. Back when the original launched it was one of my favorite games period. But after 20 years of game design evolution and growth as a gamer and person, I have to confess boring level and uninspired dungeon design as well as the backtracking and the disconnected world drags it down for me considerably. It's somewhat surprising, since I re-played Paper Mario 64 twice on the Wii U and the Switch, and this one holds up remarkably well imo. Back in the day I loved both of them, but felt like TTYD was a step-up in every single way.

TTYD is still a good game and it improves upon Paper Mario 64 in some ways, like the battle system, the writing of the partners and the ideas presented in its story and world building. The execution is flawed, though. Right now I'd put TOK, M&L BIS, PM64, M&L SS and CS above TTYD (in that order, though the middle three are really close to each other). Dream Team is probably on the same level and all other games of both series below. Except for PIT which I haven't played since launch and won't include it for that reason.
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I can understand having the PM64, M&L:SS, BIS, and somewhat TOK above TTYD. But CS? CS and its predecessor SS are the definition of horrible game design and poor execution, even through a fundamental level. Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but still.
 
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