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Reviews Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) | Review Thread

Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
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What did you like about it?
 
Nice scores, I never finished the original because I lost the game when my family moved out to a different state
 
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Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
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This has meat. It's a full-fledged JRPG adventure with tons of content, great characters/dialog and a solid story.

Modern Paper Mario games are very different compared to the classic entries.
 
Wockio said:
Adventuring as Mario and hitting stuff with hammer, the boss battles somewhat, the artstyle, and some of the level design was clever
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I never played Origami King, but based on what you liked about it (and what you thought it lacked), you'd surely like TTYD.
 
Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
Click to expand...

The original PM games have classic Zelda-ish progression, where you find items that help you overcome obstacles in dungeons and overworld areas. There's also an RPG leveling system and badges you can find in the world that augment Mario's stats and moveset. Aside from those differences, the moment-to-moment gameplay is pretty comparable to TOK.

I definitely think this gives the older games a certain meatiness to them that modern PM lacks, if you're looking for that sort of thing.
 
Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
Click to expand...

If you like RPG's or have played any other Mario RPG and liked them, then chances are you will like this one. If you didn't like the combat system in TOK then there is a good chance you will like this one. So definitely worth checking out still even if you didn't care for TOK.
 
Wockio said:
Adventuring as Mario and hitting stuff with hammer, the boss battles somewhat, the artstyle, and some of the level design was clever
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I'd look into the original Paper Mario on N64 first. If you're looking for good level design you won't find it in TTYD.
 
lit-baby.gif


VINDICATION

AFTER 20 YEARS PEOPLE STILL SEE IT AS THE GOAT

TTYD FANS WE WON
 
Síriocaz said:
I don't think anyone can deny it, "The Millennium Door" is cooler than "The Thousand-Year Door".
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How about the The Millennial Door? The sequel could be Paper Mario: The Gen Z Portal, where Mario goes around collecting the Crystal Yeets to fuel the portal to the Lit Lands, ultimately defeating King Stan and his lackey, Little Simp.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I'd look into the original Paper Mario on N64 first. If you're looking for good level design you won't find it in TTYD.
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TTYD's level design isn't as good as PM64's but I think these complaints are a little overblown. The real problems are when they force you to do the same shit over and over again like the twilight trail in chapter 4, but it looks like the remake's trying to fix this.
 
Tinarg said:
TTYD's level design isn't as good as PM64's but I think these complaints are a little overblown. The real problems are when they force you to do the same shit over and over again like the twilight trail in chapter 4, but it looks like the remake's trying to fix this.
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The way I see it, 64 has the better level design while TTYD has the more unique level design. Nothing in 64 really approaches the creativity of TTYD in that department, even though TTYD doesn’t always hit.
 
BotenAnna said:
Y'all have to stop using words like trigger and gaslight when it comes to Paper Mario I am begging you.
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I feel like the most innocuous games have the most deranged discourse

A remake of a beloved classic RPG is releasing after 20 years and 40% of the posts in a Paper Mario thread are just taking snipes at each other. Weirdo behavior
 
Tinarg said:
TTYD's level design isn't as good as PM64's but I think these complaints are a little overblown. The real problems are when they force you to do the same shit over and over again like the twilight trail in chapter 4, but it looks like the remake's trying to fix this.
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The backtracking is only part of it but most of the chapters have very straightforward layouts. Some people dislike Chapter 2 but that's some of the most interesting level design in the game. It's really frontloaded in that regard.
 
Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
Click to expand...

That's probably the thing Origami king shares most strongly with TTYD, so...
 
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Tinarg said:
TTYD's level design isn't as good as PM64's but I think these complaints are a little overblown. The real problems are when they force you to do the same shit over and over again like the twilight trail in chapter 4, but it looks like the remake's trying to fix this.
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It sounds like these changes are minor and don't help much. Chapter 5 adds a spring so you don't have to do some Yoshi flutters every time, but it's not a bunch of warp pipes added everywhere like some people were hoping. I haven't found anything saying Chapter 4 was sped up (though I argue to this day that it's part of the point in that chapter).

Thunder84 said:
The way I see it, 64 has the better level design while TTYD has the more unique level design. Nothing in 64 really approaches the creativity of TTYD in that department, even though TTYD doesn’t always hit.
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TTYD has creative level design? Environment design I'll give you, but there's just not much to TTYD's actual explorable areas. Scenario design I'd give as well - Chapters 3 and 6 from TTYD are peak Paper Mario chapters - but those chapters don't really have levels in the traditional sense in the first place.

Dardan Sandiego said:
The backtracking is only part of it but most of the chapters have very straightforward layouts. Some people dislike Chapter 2 but that's some of the most interesting level design in the game. It's really frontloaded in that regard.
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I want to disagree with you because Boggly Woods is pretty dull, and the Great Tree is just decent. But the only better level design after is the Pirate's Grotto and the final area. That's literally it.
 
Jersh said:
I want to disagree with you because Boggly Woods is pretty dull, and the Great Tree is just decent. But the only better level design after is the Pirate's Grotto and the final area. That's literally it.
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That's roughly half of the game lol
 
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Thunder84 said:
The way I see it, 64 has the better level design while TTYD has the more unique level design. Nothing in 64 really approaches the creativity of TTYD in that department, even though TTYD doesn’t always hit.
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"Unique" feels like a very embellished assessment of TTYD's overall level design. TTYD can certainly get credit for milking as much as it can from having several chapters set in functionally enclosed spaces but the only chapter I'd argue sports truly unique level design is Chapter 2, and that's in my opinion the worst one. Design-wise I think Paper Mario 64 has just as much to tote in the way of creative approaches such as how Chapter 6 is ostensibly a Metroidvania, Chapter 4 has you slowly peeling away at the layers of the Toybox, and Chapter 7 involves a dungeon where you need to be really cognizant of reflections.

I will agree however that TTYD has more creativity in terms of level concepts. Paper Mario 64 was much more conventional in this regard, nothing quite gets to the level of Mario entering professional wrestling, or roleplaying Murder on the Orient Express.
 
Jersh said:
TTYD has creative level design? Environment design I'll give you, but there's just not much to TTYD's actual explorable areas. Scenario design I'd give as well - Chapters 3 and 6 from TTYD are peak Paper Mario chapters - but those chapters don't really have levels in the traditional sense in the first place.
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I’d argue those things are inseparable. The scenario design dictates the level and environmental design; one being creative will lift the others up. Same applies for quality too, there are a few Paper Mario chapters where a fairly bland scenario is made better by how high quality the level design is.

Given how limited in scope the level design is in these games, I don’t think you can really judge it on its own like you can with other games.
 
The badge system is what made this game stick out to me big time, it allows for such cool expression. Looking back it reminds me of materia or Bravely Default and Dragon Quest jobs (+weapons/skill trees in that one)
 
jirou said:
The badge system is what made this game stick out to me big time, it allows for such cool expression. Looking back it reminds me of materia or Bravely Default and Dragon Quest jobs (+weapons/skill trees in that one)
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I remember there were many goofy ones, like one that made your hammer squeak
 
Hylianhero777 said:
Didn't know so many people here played JRPGs for the level design and the lack of backtracking, two things JRPGs are famous for
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We did not come out at the end of the other side of being treated as Nintendo babies for singing the praises of these truly unique games, only to forget how Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario 64 (and eventually the Mario & Luigi series) did it right
 
Bonejack said:
*NoA

I might up remembering wrong, but i'm pretty sure that this has always been a clear case in the original JP text and in the other non-english translations.

"Only" took them 20 years to catch up, huh?
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I was never a fan of the framing that Nintendo was being old fashioned or regressive. More often than not their decisions are a clear reaction to how conservative America itself is. And given how America has been acting lately in regards to LGBTQA+ issues, it’s hard to argue they were wrong to be worried. We can say they were cowardly or too safe in their decisions, but the ultimate issue was with American culture.
 
Síriocaz said:
I remember there were many goofy ones, like one that made your hammer squeak
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Yeah!! If I could anything to the games I've mentioned that would be so much fun. And it would fit into Dragon Quest so well, just goofy aesthetic/cosmetic additions to unlock
 
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Wockio said:
As someone who has only really dabbled into Origami King and quit I think exactly halfway through, would I like this?

I liked some stuff about Origami King but the whole game felt meandering and pointless. It's almost the length of a JRPG with none of the meat.
Click to expand...
If you enjoyed some stuff about TOK but want a game with more meat on the bones, then, in theory, you should like TTYD. Because that’s exactly what it is.

There’s more plot, and it’s a better one with a clear throughline for the main plot propped up by “arcs” in each chapter. There’s more character to the characters with more going on with the side characters like peach, bowser, and the other villains. More meaningful decision making in the combat, progression, and customization. More meaningful upgrades and side rewards to influence how you can play.

The level design is worse, but it’s made up for by the scenario design being far more interesting and the more present and engaging plots driving you forward. So much so that some of the best chapters in the game don’t even really have “level design” in the traditional since. There’s also more worthwhile rewards for exploring the levels as mentioned before.
 
VDenter said:
Which ones? As far a the other aspects are concerned PM64 and TTYD nail it.
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The original is pretty limited in terms of character/party customization which TTYD attempts to fix only to mess with the difficulty curve. If I were looking just for straight up JPRG gameplay neither would be my first choice.
 
Decoyman said:
We did not come out at the end of the other side of being treated as Nintendo babies for singing the praises of these truly unique games, only to forget how Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario 64 (and eventually the Mario & Luigi series) did it right
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I mean PM64 wasn’t perfect here either. chapters 4 and 6 in the original are the worst ones and chapter 4 was full of backtracking. And the pacing for the first hour or two is pretty bad, because Mario is so limited.

Great game but i do think it's a bit revisionist to pretend that the game nailed it, especially coming off of SMRPG which had pretty flawless pacing.
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
The original is pretty limited in terms of character/party customization which TTYD attempts to fix only to mess with the difficulty curve. If I were looking just for straight up JPRG gameplay neither would be my first choice.
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I would agree with you on the difficulty curve of hings it's my biggest problem with TTYD. I wish the remake had a harder difficulty option but the combat system is ace. I don't think it has ever been as fun as it is in this game as far as Mario RPG games are concerned.
 
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julian said:
I was never a fan of the framing that Nintendo was being old fashioned or regressive. More often than not their decisions are a clear reaction to how conservative America itself is. And given how America has been acting lately in regards to LGBTQA+ issues, it’s hard to argue they were wrong to be worried. We can say they were cowardly or too safe in their decisions, but the ultimate issue was with American culture.
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Isn't this kind of acting "cowardly and too safe" the exact definition of old fashioned? Don't get me wrong, its not a big deal for me, but I don't think its a good excuse to say that they did this because of "American culture" – no one can shape culture better than movie and game makers, and many publishers are doing it in a great, inclusive way.

I think its much more natural to assume that they are targeting younger audiences and therefore want to avoid these topics.
 
the backtracking stuff has always seemed so silly to me

I didn't even notice any sort of unusual amount of backtracking compared to other games in the genre at all when I played it when it came out which makes it feel so bizarre how much it dominates internet discussions of this game
 
I feel like PM64 has better level design, exploration and puzzles, whereas TTYD has better.... basically everything else. If a new Paper Mario game inspired by these two is in the works, I really hope it draws more from PM64 for its level design, especially. TTYD, for much of the time, is straightforward to a fault.
 
Rogueport as a whole is better designed than any area in PM64 IMO, which is good since you spend a lot of time there. Where I think the difference between 64 and TTYD comes from is TTYD has more "gimmicky" chapters like the Puni escort, the Glitz Pit ranks, or the murder mystery on a train, 64 chapters are all traditional Zelda esque. It's really gonna come down to personal taste which approach fits you better. It's why I personally enjoy 64 randomizer better, but prefer playing TTYD main game more.
 
Decoyman said:
Paper Mario 64 has just as much to tote in the way of creative approaches such as how Chapter 6 is ostensibly a Metroidvania, Chapter 4 has you slowly peeling away at the layers of the Toybox, and Chapter 7 involves a dungeon where you need to be really cognizant of reflections.
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I guess we just have different definitions of unique. The only chapter in 64 is say really falls under that moniker is chapter 4; everything else falls into the “quality design” bucket in my opinion. Some neat ideas, but nothing that fundamentally changes the pacing or structure of the game.

TTYD, on the other hand, has loads of that. Multiple chapters that play nothing like you’d expect a standard Paper Mario chapter to. That doesn’t always work (chapter 4 lol) but it’s certainly unique relative to the “standard” Paper Mario chapter.
 
rickyson33 said:
the backtracking stuff has always seemed so silly to me

I didn't even notice any sort of unusual amount of backtracking compared to other games in the genre at all when I played it when it came out which makes it feel so bizarre how much it dominates internet discussions of this game
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Backtracking only felt substantial for me in Chapter 4, though admittedly I struggled way more than necessary because of the English alphabet refusing to have 26 letters. I went between the town and dungeon sooooo many times, and the hassle was made worse with the flowers lol
 
MusicProposition said:
Isn't this kind of acting "cowardly and too safe" the exact definition of old fashioned? Don't get me wrong, its not a big deal for me, but I don't think its a good excuse to say that they did this because of "American culture" – no one can shape culture better than movie and game makers, and many publishers are doing it in a great, inclusive way.

I think its much more natural to assume that they are targeting younger audiences and therefore want to avoid these topics.
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The main point I think is that Vivian was never treated great in either the original JPN or English. In Japanese, she was trans, but treated as a joke. In English, she was made cis. Neither the JPN source nor the original English handle it well. Further, an English translation accurate to the 2004 Japanese would have been no different from the transphobic jokes in the first Ace Ventura movie.
 
I know that most of these reviews are done by those that did not review the original, but it is pretty crazy the remake is reviewing better than the original - I feel like that does not happen that often, but I am so excited to play the remake!! This will be my first time playing WOOO!
 
I left to go play Monster Hunter and come back to (unsurprisingly) find yet another staff note on a Paper Mario thread. I’m just disappointed things have to be this way. This remake even existing should be cause for celebration, much less these great review scores. But people still feel the need to be bitter and drive by with comments like “Modern Paper Mario fans finally get to see what a GOOD game is like lmaoooo” which just adds nothing to the conversation. And then there’s the baffling take in this thread that people taking every opportunity they can to trash the newer games is just NOT a thing that happens in this fanbase??? Huh????

Anyways I don’t have much to say on TTYD’s pacing or level design because I haven’t played it yet. But it is impressive that this is reviewing higher than the original release. Does that happen often, for faithful remakes at least?
 
Damn, those are some scores! The people have spoken.

Party Sklar said:
really cringe if you're serious
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The demonisation of Paper Mario fans has been getting to conspiracy level of hilarious lol. As if it's some organised group instead of random peeps who just played the old RPG games and loved them.
 
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