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Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Mer.Saloon said:
The goombas were hitting on Goombella originally, her rejection prompted the battle.

Honestly, all this dialogue is different from the looks of it. A from the ground up relocalization.
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Correct about the first part, but many, if not most, of the lines are still identical or extremely close to the original. They’re making some slight alterations here and there for the most part, with the goomba trio encounter being the most egregious change I’ve noticed by far. They made Hooktail’s line arguably a little less “odd,” at least before the battle, as I don’t see any recording yet of the “offer” during battle.

I’m glad they at least have kept Goombella being very savage towards the X-Nauts with the exact same dialogue. I could see how some stuff would be considered “mean-spirited” or “unheroic behavior,” so hopefully that means funny options like “Guess again, nerd!” or “Let there be hot dogs!” will still be available to choose. Curious if we’ll see other huge things change like the goomba trio, though. Hopefully not too much.
 
Kaizo said:
Correct about the first part, but many, if not most, of the lines are still identical or extremely close to the original. They’re making some slight alterations here and there for the most part, with the goomba trio encounter being the most egregious change I’ve noticed by far. They made Hooktail’s line arguably a little less “odd,” at least before the battle, as I don’t see any recording yet of the “offer” during battle.

I’m glad they at least have kept Goombella being very savage towards the X-Nauts with the exact same dialogue. I could see how some stuff would be considered “mean-spirited” or “unheroic behavior,” so hopefully that means funny options like “Guess again, nerd!” or “Let there be hot dogs!” will still be available to choose. Curious if we’ll see other huge things change like the goomba trio, though. Hopefully not too much.
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We ain't being offered to smell Hooktail's feet. Weirdos aside, that line is a particular bit of grossout humor that you'd only get from 2000s Nintendo.

It won't fly I bet ya.
 
Kaizo said:




4:10 - a big example of “modern sensibilities” dialogue changes I found.


EDIT: Hooktail’s dialogue is also being altered from what I can see…
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Kind of a shame, I did always like beating those Goombas up for being creeps. Understandable why they would change it, though.

Hooktail's whole thing about smelling her feet feels like... well I think that's going to be tweaked probably. Especially her line where she tells Mario "no nostril contact"... The writing probably does need touches up here and there, as much as I love the original.
 
BGBW said:
Guess I forgot about the fact Mario is canonically a huge Xenoblade fan so wouldn't need to be told about it.
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well that plus it would just be really weird thematically, everyone knows that TTYD takes place at the same time as Xenoblade X on a different part of Mira

you can even see the moon area from it in this picture

Planet-Mira.jpg
 
Mer.Saloon said:
We ain't being offered to smell Hooktail's feet. Weirdos aside, that line is a particular bit of grossout humor that you'd only get from 2000s Nintendo.

It won't fly I bet ya.
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Probably not, I’m just curious to see if / how it’s altered, exactly. Maybe just a new offer entirely after the first couple. I think we all knew going in that some unfortunate changes were inevitable, but it’s always hard when it’s your #1 game. I’m still very excited to play the Switch version, but very skeptical if it will become “the definitive” version for me.
 
Kaizo said:
Probably not, I’m just curious to see if / how it’s altered, exactly. Maybe just a new offer entirely after the first couple. I think we all knew going in that some unfortunate changes were inevitable, but it’s always hard when it’s your #1 game. I’m still very excited to play the Switch version, but very skeptical if it will become “the definitive” version for me.
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I'll take Vivian's storyline being restored (if they do it; come on Nintendo), but I will miss the mean spirited jokes in the original. Considering how much darker this game was I always felt some of the mean spirited/gross atmosphere was funny. But well, what can you do?
 
ILikeFeet said:
when did it mean it has to be the same? different rendering, different performance expectations. nothing is promised, you're fine to be disappointed, but there is no standard to be adhered to
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It's what the original game ran at and remakes are always going to be compared with the original, it's a fact of life.

Call me crazy but I’m not in the business of thinking remaking a classics but having them run worse and play worse is a good thing.

If you are ok with remakes running worse than the games originally did, I’m not sure what I can say to convince you otherwise.

I have never bought a remake that runs worse than the original and that has been exceptionally rare in this industry thankfully,

Their visual target doesn’t even see that boundary pushing to begin with. Game looks good but I can’t say it looks better on a technical level than TOK, which has larger areas, and, I would even say CS looked on par if not better too, and that was on the weaker Wii U.

If this was by far the best-looking PM game by far, I would still hate that it’s not 60fps like the original but there would at least be some way for me to rationalize the decision the devs went with, but not the case here I’m afraid. I’m just getting less frames and a less smooth game to play than 20 years ago for no good reason.


Hailinel said:
There's no 60fps standard to meet out of obligation. Different engines, different rendering. If this is your breaking point to avoid a game you have otherwise salivated for, that's your call, but 30fps isn't some unplayable nightmare scenario.
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It's a standard they set themselves with the original game. If they can't live up to it with the remake then that's disappointment and a bad look. They are selling this as the improved TTYD and yet it's worse in some ways. There is no point in continuing this with you as this to me is a clear as it gets to me.

I'm not the one who forced them to remake this game for this hardware specifically or with these choices, or whatever happened behind the scenes to make this version of TTYD run 30FPS worse than the version from 20 years ago. That's entirely on them.

Also, I haven't been "salivating" for a TTYD remake for 20 years. (especially one that runs worse.) I have been salivating for a NEW Paper Mario game in this style. Those are two completely different things. I don't know from where or why you decided to pull this random "fact" out of nowhere. 🤨
 
VDenter said:
It's what the original game ran at and remakes are always going to be compared with the original, it's a fact of life.

Call me crazy but I’m not in the business of thinking remaking a classics but having them run worse and play worse is a good thing.

If you are ok with remakes running worse than the games originally did, I’m not sure what I can say to convince you otherwise.

I have never bought a remake that runs worse than the original and that has been exceptionally rare in this industry thankfully,

Their visual target doesn’t even see that boundary pushing to begin with. Game looks good but I can’t say it looks better on a technical level than TOK, which has larger areas, and, I would even say CS looked on par if not better too, and that was on the weaker Wii U.

If this was by far the best-looking PM game by far, I would still hate that it’s not 60fps like the original but there would at least be some way for me to rationalize the decision the devs went with, but not the case here I’m afraid. I’m just getting less frames and a less smooth game to play than 20 years ago for no good reason.



It's a standard they set themselves with the original game. If they can't live up to it with the remake then that's disappointment and a bad look. They are selling this as the improved TTYD and yet it's worse in some ways. There is no point in continuing this with you as this to me is a clear as it gets to me.

I'm not the one who forced them to remake this game for this hardware specifically or with these choices, or whatever happened behind the scenes to make this version of TTYD run 30FPS worse than the version from 20 years ago. That's entirely on them.

Also, I haven't been "salivating" for a TTYD remake for 20 years. (especially one that runs worse.) I have been salivating for a NEW Paper Mario game in this style. Those are two completely different things. I don't know from where or why you decided to pull this random "fact" out of nowhere. 🤨
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Would you also be complaining if said “NEW” Paper Mario game was also in 30fps? I don’t think you would be.
 
isaacmaltes said:
Would you also be complaining if said “NEW” Paper Mario game was also in 30fps? I don’t think you would be.
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I would because it doesn't live up to the original TTYD, but it wouldn't be as disappointing because it stings less when new games are 30FPS (especially ambitious games for the relative hardware) then, when remakes of previously 60FPS games are 30FPS.
 
VDenter said:
I would because it doesn't live up to the original TTYD, but it wouldn't be as disappointing because it stings less when new games are 30FPS (especially ambitious games for the relative hardware) then, when remakes of previously 60FPS games are 30FPS.
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Your opinion is valid but at the same time i’ve honest-to-god never seen a single person complain about Color Splash or Origami King’s frame rate
 
Earthbounder said:
I envy those who will be able to play on the greatest games of all time for the first time.
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Been having a hard time getting gaming time these days, but I'm itching to give this a go.

Mer.Saloon said:
"THE Paper Mario: THE Thousand Year Door Game"

I just listened to the overview trailer. I've made fun of NoA's insistence on calling their games "The (Title) Game" But this has to be the most ridiculous one of all. Saying THE two times in a title.
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At least it wasn't "The Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door game for the Nintendo Switch system"...
 
Hailinel said:
There's no 60fps standard to meet out of obligation. Different engines, different rendering. If this is your breaking point to avoid a game you have otherwise salivated for, that's your call, but 30fps isn't some unplayable nightmare scenario.
Click to expand...

isaacmaltes said:
Would you also be complaining if said “NEW” Paper Mario game was also in 30fps? I don’t think you would be.
Click to expand...

Of course 60 FPS is no obligation and I'm buying the game either way. I do have to agree though that a re-release of a game should never be in any way less than the original. I just don't like this trend (same with the Resident Evil 4 remake where the DLC was not included even if it was for nearly every release). If Nintendo would just offer their older games as a purchase on the eshop, this wouldn’t be a problem for me.
 
Truno said:
Judging by the sheer amount of paper jokes in that trailer, Nintendo isn’t changing this series at all. Gonna enjoy the remake though
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I'm still amazed that fans of the game where you blow peeling pieces of paper off the wall to reveal hidden rooms and Mario literally folds into an airplane are the fans that complain that leaning into the paper theme is part of the problem with the new games.

1UP inc. said:


Around the 11:35 mark it shows a new Pipe Zone
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Judging by the water in the room, it looks like an overhaul of the existing blue pipe rooms rather than a straight addition, which makes some sense. A quick pipe to central Rogueport is a bigger addition than the addition of pipes for chapters 3/4/7, imo (the 4/7 pipes were close by anyway, though theoretically these could go to different places in those chapters).

Dragoncaine said:
You're a real one, thanks for this! I think the above reviewer that @Truno is mentioning hasn't gotten far enough to reap the rewards of this new feature.
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Nah, I doubt it. That reviewer is very correct; paths in chapters other than 3 and 6 are straight paths, and you're often required to go back and forth down them. The overhauled blue pipes don't do anything for backtracking within a chapter, only between main chapter areas; it's significantly more impactful on side quests than the main story (where it'd only be useable between chapters 5 and 6, and during chapter 7).

These pipes also largely already existed. The big things here are that more attention is drawn to them, they're tied to Crystal Stars instead of equipment upgrades (so you unlock each chapter after it's complete instead of potentially waiting an extra chapter to unlock the quick travel pipe), there's one for chapter 3, and there's quicker access from the central part of Rougeport.

They'll do nothing for these instances of backtracking:

Chapter 1: Start of Petal Meadows -> End of Schwonk Fortress -> Start of Petal Meadows (then from Petalburg -> Start of Petal Meadows after the chapter is completed)

Chapter 2: Start of Boggly Woods -> End of Boggly Woods -> Start of Boggly Woods -> End of Boggly Woods -> Midpoint of Boggly Woods (and midpoint -> start after the chapter is completed)

Chapter 4: Twilight Town -> Halfway through Twilight Trail -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple -> Twilight Town -> Creepy Steeple

Chapter 5: Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key - > Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key -> Start of Keelhaul Key -> End of Keelhaul Key

The infamous Chapter 7 sequence will be further streamlined, but the blue pipes already made it a lot better than it was made out to be imo. I kinda have to wonder if most people didn't find those.
 
MusicProposition said:
Of course 60 FPS is no obligation and I'm buying the game either way. I do have to agree though that a re-release of a game should never be in any way less than the original. I just don't like this trend (same with the Resident Evil 4 remake where the DLC was not included even if it was for nearly every release). If Nintendo would just offer their older games as a purchase on the eshop, this wouldn’t be a problem for me.
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That's not how development works.

I don't have any knowledge in how this specific game was coded beyond what can be considered reasonable speculation. But framerate can be affected by a number of factors, including factors that the GameCube version simply never had to account for. It's just not always feasible to expect that because the original did it, the remake needs to do it, too.
 
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30 FPS?!

Nintendo is LITERALLY trying to kill TTYD so nobody asks for it again. I can’t believe THEY are doing THIS in plain sight.

Friends, I IMPLORE you: Cancel your preorder right now…and then preorder it again two more times. Send OUR dissatisfaction to the FAT CATS in Kyoto and make sure they know we will NOT be deterred.
 
Looks like the title screen updates over time with each new partner.
15-Minutos-de-PAPER-MARIO-La-Puerta-Milenaria-REMAKE-NUEVO-GAMEPLAY-Exclusivo-Nintendo-Switch-0-11-s.png

We-ve-Played-Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-on-Switch-Is-It-Any-Good-0-2-screenshot.png


They've also added the merchant Charlieton to Boggly Woods. I imagine he'll now appear along those routes the player backtracks back and forth over to keep their item stock replenished.

Also, good sprite alert:
woahnose.jpg
 
ze_ said:
Looks like the title screen updates over time with each new partner.
15-Minutos-de-PAPER-MARIO-La-Puerta-Milenaria-REMAKE-NUEVO-GAMEPLAY-Exclusivo-Nintendo-Switch-0-11-s.png

We-ve-Played-Paper-Mario-The-Thousand-Year-Door-on-Switch-Is-It-Any-Good-0-2-screenshot.png
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This is such a cool detail!

This, coupled with their presence in some cutscenes like the blimp and the door cutscenes, make me pretty confident the partners will be a bit more present throughout the story, at least visually. I especially hope they find a way to squeeze them all in during the end sequence where you face off against the final boss and give them all dialogue maybe? That would be one of the coolest things they could do and would give that scene even more oomph than it already had.
 
JazzyFuture said:
Just going off of a machine translation of the track list from the jukebox, it seems the soundtrack really is heavily expanded.
Professor Frankly has 3 themes instead of just one, and the one they play is Goombella's theme, which is entirely new!
Also, there's 3 Rogueport themes it seems, as the top 2 selections roughly translate to "Rogueport 2nd Floor" and "Rogueport 3rd Floor". I guess that means the soundtrack will dynamically shift to a different version of the song depending on what section of an area you're in, like Banjo-Kazooie.
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I cannot believe they went this hard with the OST. Each area having a new version of the normal battle theme is huge
 
I wonder how "improved" the new quick travel will be, depending on how improved my guess is that it + the easier Superguards (due to being 30FPS instead of 60) will make speedrunners prefer the new version.
 
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touchfuzzy said:
The worst part of this trailer was the narrator acting like Paper Mario is a new thing. "Look, it's Mario! And he's... paper now?!? A-WHAAA??"

Like yeah, we know. This franchise is 25 years old, lol.
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there being a Mario that is made out of paper in Paper Mario is one of the biggest twists in gaming history

it's almost too much, I hope this game doesn't have any doors in it a game should only have so many twists
 
touchfuzzy said:
The worst part of this trailer was the narrator acting like Paper Mario is a new thing. "Look, it's Mario! And he's... paper now?!? A-WHAAA??"

Like yeah, we know. This franchise is 25 years old, lol.
Click to expand...

If you want this franchise to grow, it is good that Nintendo tries to market this to new audiences. You know, many people don't.
 
jazzyartist said:
GMB2VN8XwAAlBdl


GMB2VcLXIAAzaiU


Might be sticking the landing with Viv?
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If I had to guess, they probably changed Vivian's line here. In the original English version iirc, Vivian calls them the three Shadow Beauties, which Beldam retorts that Vivian isn't pretty enough to be a Beauty, etc.

However, the new line is interesting. I am going to say the dialogue is Vivian referring to them as sisters, but Beldam is "disowning" her for messing up with the Wanted Poster for Mario. Hence the "Relation Withheld" bit. My guess is this would have been changed to avoid Vivian being called ugly by her sisters (maybe that feels too mean-spirited?)

With that being said, I have my doubts they'll do anything with Vivian in any meaningful capacity, which is a shame. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong, though.
 
StretchNStripes said:
If I had to guess, they probably changed Vivian's line here. In the original English version iirc, Vivian calls them the three Shadow Beauties, which Beldam retorts that Vivian isn't pretty enough to be a Beauty, etc.

However, the new line is interesting. I am going to say the dialogue is Vivian referring to them as sisters, but Beldam is "disowning" her for messing up with the Wanted Poster for Mario. Hence the "Relation Withheld" bit. My guess is this would have been changed to avoid Vivian being called ugly by her sisters (maybe that feels too mean-spirited?)

With that being said, I have my doubts they'll do anything with Vivian in any meaningful capacity, which is a shame. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong, though.
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It resembles the Japanese line, where she removes the term 姫 and replaces it with 組, effectively changing "Sirens" to "Trio" by this. The Japanese script is trying to remove her identity and trying to call her not one of their sisters. So this is very much an indicator they are restoring the transphobia and Vivian's identity.
 
I am still going to be surprised if the American localization sticks with her being trans given various circumstances. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I kind of feel like at best they're gonna do a "squint and you can see it" sort of characterization for Vivian's identity. We'll see in a month!
 
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Mendinso said:
It resembles the Japanese line, where she removes the term 姫 and replaces it with 組, effectively changing "Sirens" to "Trio" by this. The Japanese script is trying to remove her identity and trying to call her not one of their sisters. So this is very much an indicator they are restoring the transphobia and Vivian's identity.
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It looks like they've replaced Beldam's insult that Vivian is "actually" their brother with her either disowning Vivian like StretchNStripes suggested or, like siblings do, lying and saying that Vivian is actually adopted. Her contention is there in the dialogue box.
 
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ze_ said:
It looks like they've replaced Beldam's insult that Vivian is "actually" their brother with her either disowning Vivian like StretchNStripes suggested or, like siblings do, lying and saying that Vivian is actually adopted. Her contention is there in the dialogue box.
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The original line is that they're the "Three Shadows" in Japanese, with her dropping the 姫 part and just making it a generic trio line with 組. The prior line makes sense with this change, as she denies her identity as a woman, and the follow up line is dropping they're the three sisters (カゲ三人姫).

The exact line is this:

「われら カゲ（影）三人組のちからをたっぷりと見せてやるわさっ！」

(added the Kage Kanji for emphasis of the meaning there)

This roughly translates "We, the Three Shadows, are more than enough to handle you.".

Localization is trying to make it clear the connection of them being Sirens is being dropped now, much like how they changed カゲ三人姫 to カゲ三人組.

We obviously have to wait to see the finalized full dialogue, but this should be an indicator what Nintendo is doing with the dialogue with full context.

That said, I'm "hoping" given this bit of dialogue, Nintendo both restores a lot of this and her general identity as a trans woman, but also fixes some of the problematic dialogue from the scan mechanic involving Vivians. If they're updating the localization, I'm hopeful that's the case on the Japanese dialogue for the more problematic elements.
 
Mendinso said:
The original line is that they're the "Three Shadows" in Japanese, with her dropping the 姫 part and just making it a generic trio line with 組. The prior line makes sense with this change, as she denies her identity as a woman, and the follow up line is dropping they're the three sisters (カゲ三人姫).

The exact line is this:

「われら カゲ（影）三人組のちからをたっぷりと見せてやるわさっ！」

(added the Kage Kanji for emphasis of the meaning there)

This roughly translates "We, the Three Shadows, are more than enough to handle you.".
Click to expand...
Yes, and they've added the phrase "relation withheld" to explain Beldam's contention with the name "Shadow Sisters." Beldam doesn't just correct the name in the original Japanese, she has a dialogue box where she shouts "aren't you a man?!" The addition suggests that Beldam will instead retort that Vivian isn't actually related to the other two, in the style of an older sibling trying to convince the youngster that they're adopted.

They've reverted the group name back to what it was in the original Japanese, but added the phrase "relation withheld" to give it new context.
 
ze_ said:
Yes, and they've added the phrase "relation withheld" to explain Beldam's contention with the name "Shadow Sisters." Beldam doesn't just correct the name in the original Japanese, she has a dialogue box where she shouts "aren't you a man?!" The addition suggests that Beldam will instead retort that Vivian isn't actually related to the other two, in the style of an older sibling trying to convince the youngster that they're adopted.

They've reverted the group name back to what it was in the original Japanese, but added the phrase "relation withheld" to give it new context.
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It could also just be that Beldam doesn't consider Vivian as her sister because of misgendering.
 
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Gabev said:
Huh, I am kind of wondering if they are going to avoid the issue altogether now, like maybe none of the shadow sirens will have a gender at all since they are shadow beings, I am super curious how this all works out.
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Possibly, but this is what they're called in Japanese so, while I think they'll probably dance around it a little more than the Japanese version, it will be more accurate to the Japanese version of Vivian's story, even if the trans stuff is mostly just implied. I could see them cutting Beldam repeatedly calling Vivian a man for example, and just have it be "you're not my sister".
 
It's interesting to me that they changed it at all. Have we seen any other lines altered? Is this a full refresh of the English script? It had plenty of errors, but it wasn't nearly as badly in need of a redo as Super Mario RPG and could have been just fine untouched.

If they specifically chose to alter this aspect of it, that would be really interesting and a better sign of intentionality with uncensoring Vivian than if they were going over the whole thing and just decided to do a somewhat more accurate translation of the dialogue this time around.
 
Stilt Village said:
It's interesting to me that they changed it at all. Have we seen any other lines altered? Is this a full refresh of the English script? It had plenty of errors, but it wasn't nearly as badly in need of a redo as Super Mario RPG and could have been just fine untouched.

If they specifically chose to alter this aspect of it, that would be really interesting and a better sign of intentionality with uncensoring Vivian than if they were going over the whole thing and just decided to do a somewhat more accurate translation of the dialogue this time around.
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It's not just the English script getting edits. The Japanese script was revised at points, too, apparently.
 
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