Alright so I finished that the other day, here are my thoughts (tbh I hate the LTTP tag, we need to figure out something better)
First off, a bit of my history with the series. My first game was Super Paper Mario, I rented that from my local library. Everyone online was insufferable about how it was the worst game in the series because it’s not a RPG, so I figured it could only go up after starting with that one. Turns out it’s a pretty cool game
After that I played 64 which is the best one imo, perfect successor to SMRPG, great game, not much else to say. TTYD was good too but vastly overrated tbh, in order to get to the parts that actually surpass 64 you need to either do a bunch of back and forth or go through something that is obviously a rehash of some 64 chapter.
I skipped Sticker Star because on top of never being a Nintendo Selects, it’s simply super unappealing to me how it has the SMB3 level structure, another victim of the NSMBisation of Mario at the time. I did play Color Splash though. While it was a victim of the “Mario Shadow Council” or whatever you want to call it, while it wasn’t the most ambitious game as it released on the dying Wii U… it was still a good game on its own. It has better level design than TTYD, which isn’t saying that much but still. If it had just ripped off Baten Kaitos’ battle system instead of ruining the pacing by painting the cards and such, it would have been a perfectly functional turn based battle system for the series going forward. Either way it still had the varied and interesting scenarios the series is known for.
So, on to Origami King now. My first impression was that Color Splash kind of had a better “gameplay loop”: the paint was better than the confettis I feel. The battle system was a total cakewalk early game, I basically did the whole first “chapter” (which was pretty standard Paper Mario fare) with no damage. Turns out the battle system is basically the epitome of “puzzle battles”. You’re supposed to solve the ring puzzles, beat all enemies in one turn using your breakable weapons and getting the no damage coin bonus. It’s different from normal RPG battles where dungeons are basically this war of attrition between your healing resources and the enemy encounters you get along the way, so in TOK you rarely worry about your HP. You also have the boss battles that work a bit differently and basically doubles down on the puzzle aspect. That battle system is honestly pretty sound in terms of game design, you can even practice some ring puzzle lining up patterns in-game, that gave me chess puzzle vibes. It also has the Earthbound thing going on, you “level up” by collecting max HP upgrades, when you’re at a certain level you can instantly defeat weaker enemies. However, when you don’t really have a character progression system associated with your separate, turn based battle system, when the only incentive to fight enemies besides confettis is to grab coins to buy stuff except that once you buy everything the only use of your coins is to essentially skip the ring puzzles… well this highlights the main issue with this battle system, which is that it’s too slow and basically takes you out of the best parts of the game.
Speaking of the best parts of the game, well its biggest strength is how it constantly escalates. After the first chapter (streamer), I thought I had an idea of how the game would go. I kinda had the same idea by the start of the second streamer but by the end of it, I was surprised how it already mixed things up. Now I won’t talk about the whole game without spoiler tags but just to prove that point, you know how people hype up that game by saying that there’s a part where it’s basically a mini Wind Waker? It’s honestly true, that map has legit more exploration and islands than Phantom Hourglass.
Now there’s another topic about this game, I really don’t want to derail the thread and make it about it but there’s this sentiment that Paper Mario, as it’s an adventure game, could replace traditional 3D Zelda. This idea comes from the fact that in this game, you have legit puzzle dungeons with elemental themes, some of them are called temples and everything. You unlock a new elemental power by the end of them (honestly the powers part of the game is kind of undercooked, you won’t really use your new abilities in the same way that you do in Zelda, Metroid or even some older Paper Mario games but it’s still fine). I have another long post about this but essentially the point is that I really don’t think it can fully fill that itch at all. I know the dungeons gave a strong Zelda vibe but the thing is, Paper Mario always had much more involving level design than most RPGs. Let’s not forget that Ocarina of Time is a game that basically shaped 3D gaming in general, games take notes from it to this day and that includes this one
So overall, I think it’s a great game and I highly recommend it, if you can accept that some Paper Mario games have less RPG elements, well there’s a lot of fun to have here. Now for the future of the series, I think that this one is a fine conclusion for the “arts and crafts trilogy”. In terms of combat, they should either commit to turn based combat with RPG structure (it’s not like the first two are particularly convoluted on that aspect. The adventure part of Paper Mario was always the best part regardless) or real time but sidescrolling like Super (I don’t imagine Paper Mario becoming another isometric action game, don’t see it being pure adventure with no combat at all either). Now about the Shadow Council thing, I don’t know what exactly are the limitations there but it honestly really hurts Mario spinoffs. The biggest issue with the game, which undermines a lot of its best parts, it that there are TOO MANY TOADS. Let’s look at why behind spoiler tags
First off, a bit of my history with the series. My first game was Super Paper Mario, I rented that from my local library. Everyone online was insufferable about how it was the worst game in the series because it’s not a RPG, so I figured it could only go up after starting with that one. Turns out it’s a pretty cool game
After that I played 64 which is the best one imo, perfect successor to SMRPG, great game, not much else to say. TTYD was good too but vastly overrated tbh, in order to get to the parts that actually surpass 64 you need to either do a bunch of back and forth or go through something that is obviously a rehash of some 64 chapter.
I skipped Sticker Star because on top of never being a Nintendo Selects, it’s simply super unappealing to me how it has the SMB3 level structure, another victim of the NSMBisation of Mario at the time. I did play Color Splash though. While it was a victim of the “Mario Shadow Council” or whatever you want to call it, while it wasn’t the most ambitious game as it released on the dying Wii U… it was still a good game on its own. It has better level design than TTYD, which isn’t saying that much but still. If it had just ripped off Baten Kaitos’ battle system instead of ruining the pacing by painting the cards and such, it would have been a perfectly functional turn based battle system for the series going forward. Either way it still had the varied and interesting scenarios the series is known for.
So, on to Origami King now. My first impression was that Color Splash kind of had a better “gameplay loop”: the paint was better than the confettis I feel. The battle system was a total cakewalk early game, I basically did the whole first “chapter” (which was pretty standard Paper Mario fare) with no damage. Turns out the battle system is basically the epitome of “puzzle battles”. You’re supposed to solve the ring puzzles, beat all enemies in one turn using your breakable weapons and getting the no damage coin bonus. It’s different from normal RPG battles where dungeons are basically this war of attrition between your healing resources and the enemy encounters you get along the way, so in TOK you rarely worry about your HP. You also have the boss battles that work a bit differently and basically doubles down on the puzzle aspect. That battle system is honestly pretty sound in terms of game design, you can even practice some ring puzzle lining up patterns in-game, that gave me chess puzzle vibes. It also has the Earthbound thing going on, you “level up” by collecting max HP upgrades, when you’re at a certain level you can instantly defeat weaker enemies. However, when you don’t really have a character progression system associated with your separate, turn based battle system, when the only incentive to fight enemies besides confettis is to grab coins to buy stuff except that once you buy everything the only use of your coins is to essentially skip the ring puzzles… well this highlights the main issue with this battle system, which is that it’s too slow and basically takes you out of the best parts of the game.
Speaking of the best parts of the game, well its biggest strength is how it constantly escalates. After the first chapter (streamer), I thought I had an idea of how the game would go. I kinda had the same idea by the start of the second streamer but by the end of it, I was surprised how it already mixed things up. Now I won’t talk about the whole game without spoiler tags but just to prove that point, you know how people hype up that game by saying that there’s a part where it’s basically a mini Wind Waker? It’s honestly true, that map has legit more exploration and islands than Phantom Hourglass.
Now there’s another topic about this game, I really don’t want to derail the thread and make it about it but there’s this sentiment that Paper Mario, as it’s an adventure game, could replace traditional 3D Zelda. This idea comes from the fact that in this game, you have legit puzzle dungeons with elemental themes, some of them are called temples and everything. You unlock a new elemental power by the end of them (honestly the powers part of the game is kind of undercooked, you won’t really use your new abilities in the same way that you do in Zelda, Metroid or even some older Paper Mario games but it’s still fine). I have another long post about this but essentially the point is that I really don’t think it can fully fill that itch at all. I know the dungeons gave a strong Zelda vibe but the thing is, Paper Mario always had much more involving level design than most RPGs. Let’s not forget that Ocarina of Time is a game that basically shaped 3D gaming in general, games take notes from it to this day and that includes this one
So overall, I think it’s a great game and I highly recommend it, if you can accept that some Paper Mario games have less RPG elements, well there’s a lot of fun to have here. Now for the future of the series, I think that this one is a fine conclusion for the “arts and crafts trilogy”. In terms of combat, they should either commit to turn based combat with RPG structure (it’s not like the first two are particularly convoluted on that aspect. The adventure part of Paper Mario was always the best part regardless) or real time but sidescrolling like Super (I don’t imagine Paper Mario becoming another isometric action game, don’t see it being pure adventure with no combat at all either). Now about the Shadow Council thing, I don’t know what exactly are the limitations there but it honestly really hurts Mario spinoffs. The biggest issue with the game, which undermines a lot of its best parts, it that there are TOO MANY TOADS. Let’s look at why behind spoiler tags
So the game is really cool because it constantly escalates right, there’s always some kind of new worldbuilding aspect being introduced in each chapter. However, the Toads undermine everything. Chapter 2 Climax is in some Japanese theme park? The employees are Toads, not Ninji or Gaijin Goombas or Koopas. Chapter 3 is really cool, it’s more open and it’s in a desert, you drive a buggy (which has 150 Yoshi power. Only reference to Yoshi in the game sadly). The chapter is basically about investigating ancient ruins, your partner is a Toad in Indiana Jones cosplay which is fine. However… the ancient civilisation you’re investigating are ANCIENT TOADS. After that you save a frozen Ancient Toad who has a Captain Harlock cosplay this time, he helps you for the very cool chapter 4 in the sea. That chapter is even more exploration focused than the previous one, you solve a mystery that spans multiple islands, which is conveyed to you by ANGEL TOAD STATUES. In this chapter you meet the character that created the origami, the villain and main partner. Who did this? A RANDOM TOAD. You reach heaven, the sky, what is there? WHITE TOADS. What’s ironic is when you confront the villain, when he gives his speech about turning the world into origami, what is his motivation? HE SAYS HE HATES TOADS, ESPECIALLY THE ONE THAT CREATED HIM, THAT THEY ARE BLAND AND THEY SHOULD JUST BECOME PLAIN WHITE PAPER. Is this ironic, did the Youtube dislikes get into the writers’ heads? Either way while I dunno how much the Shadow Council limits them in terms of making original characters out of established species, they can at least use the other species more and keep the Toads for Toadville
