Discussion Alright Fami, let's do this: What direction do you want the Paper Mario series to go in

[JazzPotatoes]

Seeing as discussion in the Arlo thread got massively off track, I figured it would probably best to have a dedicated thread for this long running and contested debate:

What direction do you want the Paper Mario series to take going forwards?

Obviously there's the rumour of a Thousand Year Door remake, which would revive the classic RPG formula many fans have been missing.

However, Origami King has become one of the most successful games in the series, and for many fans represents the series finally nailing the action adventure direction it's been heading in since Sticker Star and Colour Splash. So for the next original instalment, which direction would you like to see the series head in?

1) Head back to the classic RPG formula as per PM64 and TTYD: party members, experience points, classic turn based battles and badges

2) Carry on with the more modern spin of CS and Origami King: battles with interesting gimmicks, less focus on experience points and more focus on action adventure elements

3) Leave behind both the classic formula and the modern formula, and go for something different: please explain any ideas you would like to see explored

Let's hash this out Fami, and see where the forum consensus on this topic lies

 

[Party Sklar]

I would prefer a return to the RPG formula for the battles, but don’t mind if they take the series elsewhere. I love TOK and as long as Paper Mario keeps its tone and excellent writing, it’ll remain a great series.

 

[Vookatos]

Fine with any of them. Sticker Star was a bad step, but Color Splash and Origami King are both really good.

 

[wrowa]

I hope the series will remain a playground for creative ideas. Because looking at all the different play styles the series went through, that is really the one common thread connecting everything. So. Go crazy.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Open for anything, really. Though I was a bit sad that they completely abandoned the card-based combat from Color Splash. If they had looked more towards Baten Kaitos and Slay the Spire I think it would make for an excellent game.

I wouldn't mind a return to the "pure" RPG-style gameplay from the first two games but I hope that they look more towards PM64 rather than TTYD when it comes to level design and difficulty curve. The sequel added a lot of cool stuff and did a lot more to really carve out its own corner in the Mario universe but it was a marked step back from the original in several ways.

 

[Mekanos]

Something like the first two PMs but hopefully with level design and pacing like the first game. Didn't like Super Paper Mario and never played the other games but the original PM duology are some of my all time favorite games and the lack of traditional Mario RPGs on Switch is a sore spot. So, pretty easy answer.

 

[meatbag]

As someone who's only played the first two Paper Marios: I think Origami King was an intriguing direction for the franchise and I'd like to see Nintendo refine that formula. Then reserve the Mario RPG slot for Mario & Luigi.

 

[Earthbounder]

I am a Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door fan, so that's the option my vote will go to.

With that being said, I think that, ultimately, what needs to be done is that the series must choose whether it wants to be an RPG or an action-adventure product. This weird middle-ground on which it stands right now is very shaky, because it doesn't make sense for it to remain attached to turn-based battles when there's no level-progression system. So what we end up with is a good action-adventure game whose flow is interrupted by meaningless battles that severely hurt the experience.

So I say they must either go the Super Paper Mario way and ditch those combats altogether, or bring back experience points.

 

[Dcubed]

I want Paper Mario to become traditional pre-BOTW 3D Zelda.

And after playing Origami King? That's exactly where I expect the series to go next. They're gonna ditch turn-based battles entirely and go for 100% real-time combat (ALA the Origami King Paper Macho battles; but much more fleshed out).

Half of the reason why Paper Mario ditched RPG mechanics in the first place was because the Mario & Luigi series made it redundant (the other half being that IS were out of ideas with the original formula and were sick of making traditional RPGs). With BOTW now leaving a gaping hole in Nintendo's Action-Adventure lineup, and Origami King already being so close to traditional Zelda style gameplay? (and with that game's Ring Combat being a bit of a dud), it makes perfect sense for them to go down this route and expand on the parts of Origami King that were actually good.

The Paper Macho battles are a preview of where the series is going next.

 

[Stilt Village]

So, let me preface this by saying I never played Origami King, never finished Color Splash, and don't remember much of Sticker Star.

I definitely don't want them to keep doing their bad experimental takes on RPG gameplay that have the same fundamental problem every single time, but as much as I think the badge system was neat, it's not like bringing back that combat would really fix the series? There's still the main issue of the restrictions placed on their use of the Mario universe, and the thing is, I can't say they were entirely wrong to have restrictions, because TTYD is weirdly horny and Super Paper Mario was someone's AO3 star-crossed lovers epic that had Mario inserted into it. They probably shouldn't have been allowed to have a computer fall in love with Peach because he watched her shower. It's cool that they were allowed to have Mario die and go to hell, but at the same time, most of that game has fuck-all to do with Mario, and there's plenty of lame stuff mixed in there with the memorably crazy bits.

The paper jokes and stuff, I don't care too much either way. I remember thinking some of the writing in Color Splash was funny, and I have no idea if it would become a problem and I'd be asking for more character-based humor in a scenario where they were allowed to actually have a large cast of distinct characters, so, whatever. TBD.

And then there's their worst tendencies in game design that existed from the very beginning. You need to be really patient to enjoy classic Paper Mario, because everything takes a long time. You don't even unlock action commands in the first one for like, it's gotta be at least an hour? Even random encounters are pretty long. That's not a super uncommon sentiment with RPGs, especially older ones, though I do think these are unusually long even then. But each game got worse and worse with the walking back and forth over and over and this idea of deliberately wasting the player's time as a joke. I don't know if they're still doing that, but it got pretty horrible by Super Paper Mario, and that would be another thing that could spoil the brew.

All in all, I guess I just don't see an immediate future where I'm interested in Paper Mario? I do really like the first game and have fond memories of TTYD even though it's been a while and I'm hesitant to try replaying it with how much of a time investment it would be, but barring drastic changes of circumstance, I don't see how the series could realistically appeal to me again. I'd rather see it influence new things. It was influential for me growing up, I like to think it was influential for other people too. There's some stuff out there already, but I'd like to believe that one day the Pizza Tower of Paper Mario is gonna be made, something that can both surpass its inspiration and truly stand on its own beyond the obvious comparison. But I'd settle for like, a 2D platformer that gets the appeal of TTYD's globetrotting treasure hunt adventure story, or a game that goes all-in on the badges the same way Ikenfell went all-in on the action commands.

...This is maybe the only time you're gonna hear me say this, but if they continue with their current direction, it seems like it'd be best if Paper Mario just dropped turn-based battles entirely and went full action? That sounds like what would best play to their strengths. I dunno, ask someone who still plays it I suppose.

 

[xghost777]

I’m always going to want more in the style of the first two games the most, I love RPGs and new adventures with Mario with new groups of friends to meet in new worlds speaks to me the most, but outside of the dreadful first half of Sticker Star, I genuinely like all of the games.

But I do hope if Paper Mario is done for good on being a Mario RPG, I hope they make a new Mario RPG series or revive / revisit Super Mario RPG. I just don’t want Mario’s RPG career to ever end.

 

[Olinad]

I liked origami king for everything but the combat system. The fact that there was always an optimal solution to every fight turned the combat into more of a puzzle game, and the regular RPG fighting was used as a "punishment" for not finding the perfect set of operations. I honestly found it more frustrating than interesting.
Boss fights had less issues with that, but were also far less inventive in terms of characters.

I'd love if they kept going in the direction of origami king, but weren't afraid to have a little more rpg elements in there. They can keep the twists like the circular battlegrounds, I loved them, and steer away from overly complicated rpg stats... But having rpg battles that didn't work like such was a misdirect and I would've rather had a completely real-time system a la super paper mario at that point.

 

[Olinad]

...This is maybe the only time you're gonna hear me say this, but if they continue with their current direction, it seems like it'd be best if Paper Mario just dropped turn-based battles entirely and went full action? That sounds like what would best play to their strengths. I dunno, ask someone who still plays it I suppose.

I think you should really play origami king before giving feedback on the recent entries... But I kind of agree with the final sentence lol.
That's kind of what I've been feeling, if you really don't want to give us a proper rpg battle system, then why pretend. Origami king's combat is pretty much a puzzle game, just steer away from the format if you don't want to embrace it lol.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I think they'll keep making pairs of games in a given style and then move on to something new. So I expect the next game will be another puzzle battler where the combat is primarily some kind of puzzle to solve, and that sounds good enough to me.

At this point, I've just completely tuned out anyone who is ride or die on the battles have to be like 64/TTYD or it's garbage. When I want a game that plays like that, Indies have me covered. Paper mario should keep exploring new things.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Ditch combat and become a full on 3d adventure game.

Maybe go for a noir parody to really help facilitate that.

 

[Dcubed]

I think they'll keep making pairs of games in a given style and then move on to something new. So I expect the next game will be another puzzle battler where the combat is primarily some kind of puzzle to solve, and that sounds good enough to me.

At this point, I've just completely tuned out anyone who is ride or die on the battles have to be like 64/TTYD or it's garbage. When I want a game that plays like that, Indies have me covered. Paper mario should keep exploring new things.

Super Paper Mario was never paired with anything else though. It came out of a minigame from TTYD that IS decided to expand upon and it never received a follow-up of its own.

Origami King isn't that dissimilar really. It's built off of the skeleton of Color Splash, but I really don't think that the Ring Combat has any legs to it. Even that game's own designers gave up on it and did something totally different for the boss battles (which were much, much better than the rest of the game).

The Paper Macho real-time combat and out-of-battle exploration/puzzle solving however? Now THAT has a lot more potential.

 

[MondoMega]

I think TOK was a nice continued step back in the right direction (Color Splash already did good by not literally having NSMB level aesthetics like Sticker Star). I don’t even hate the battle system like most do, but that’s one element they should probably rethink (and preferably go back to TTYD on). More than anything though I miss the original characters and partners. People like to make “Goomba with hat” jokes but the OCs with their own little design spins on existing Mario species add so much to 64 and TTYD! Can’t say I haven’t dreamed up my own partner concepts before.

In the meantime I do still think TTYD HD is going to happen though. Hopefully it’ll be representative of where the next new game is going, and not just their attempt to appease the hardcore detractors and stop their whining, lol.

 

[Red Monster]

I want Paper Mario to become the new 3D Zelda, which Origami King essentially is but with the added ring combat. I adored TOK and don’t mind the ring combat, but the real time paper mache fights are where the series should go.

I want Paper Mario to become traditional pre-BOTW 3D Zelda.

And after playing Origami King? That's exactly where I expect the series to go next. They're gonna ditch turn-based battles entirely and go for 100% real-time combat (ALA the Origami King Paper Macho battles; but much more fleshed out).

Half of the reason why Paper Mario ditched RPG mechanics in the first place was because the Mario & Luigi series made it redundant (the other half being that IS were out of ideas with the original formula and were sick of making traditional RPGs). With BOTW now leaving a gaping hole in Nintendo's Action-Adventure lineup, and Origami King already being so close to traditional Zelda style gameplay? (and with that game's Ring Combat being a bit of a dud), it makes perfect sense for them to go down this route and expand on the parts of Origami King that were actually good.

The Paper Macho battles are a preview of where the series is going next.

Yep, exactly this!

 

[Gabev]

I want Paper Mario to become the new 3D Zelda, which Origami King essentially is but with the added ring combat. I adored TOK and don’t mind the ring combat, but the real time paper mache fights are where the series should go.


Yep, exactly this!

As a fan of the first 2 PM games I would not mind this, of the parts that I played in PM TOK the most I enjoyed were the real time battles, I would have like the turn-based battles more if it wasn't for the timer.

I know that you could spend coins to increase the time counter, but I like to take things at my own pace and not feel rushed, especially with the nature of the battles in that they were treated more as mini puzzles as to actual battles, and even with the time counter being all the way up I still felt like I needed to hurry.

 

[Enpsty]

I voted a new direction because I'm tired of the endless debate between old and new PM fans.
However a new game similar to Origami King with the same battle system, but with higher difficulty would be perfect.
TOK had fantastic story, music, graphics, exploration, bosses. The battle system was fresh, unfortunately the low difficulty didn't take advance of it. The challenges you take in the toad cinema were a perfect example of how tweaking the difficulty up required strategy and careful planning.

 

[Maronic03]

Whatever the team wants to do.

I wouldn't mind going back to turn based RPG battles, but after playing Chained Echoes and Octopath 2 almost back to back, I fear that my standard has become completely unreasonable.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

The Zelda-like level design in Origami King was great but I found the papermacho real-time combat quite bland and boring. Moreover, I think that they have other more fitting IPs that can fill the role of OoT-style Zelda and would find it a bit sad if Paper Mario was forced into it.

 

[Lord Azrael]

Both

The puzzle adventure gameplay of the newer games with the character designs and unique locales of the first two

 

[JazzPotatoes]

The Zelda-like level design in Origami King was great but I found the papermacho real-time combat quite bland and boring. Moreover, I think that they have other more fitting IPs that can fill the role of OoT-style Zelda and would find it a bit sad if Paper Mario was forced into it.

I actually think that now Kirby has gone 3D, that's a much easier series to pivot into an OoT style adventure game. You could have multiple themed dungeons, where each dungeon has an enemy that gives you a specific ability to then beat that dungeon.

That makes more sense to me than getting Paper Mario to drop the turn based combat entirely

 

[Dcubed]

The Zelda-like level design in Origami King was great but I found the papermacho real-time combat quite bland and boring. Moreover, I think that they have other more fitting IPs that can fill the role of OoT-style Zelda and would find it a bit sad if Paper Mario was forced into it.

It's already like 80% of the way there though. They might as well finish the job at this point!

Obviously the next game would heavily expand on the real-time movement mechanics and combat that's already there (because you're right, it's quite basic as it is).

Otherwise, I'd really struggle to think of an existing Nintendo IP more fitting to fill the 3D Zelda hole TBH (apart from Zelda itself, obviously). Golden Sun is the next closest thing, but that's heavily steeped in RPG mechanics that I feel would be to its detriment to take away from it.

 

[Comic Obsessed]

Super Paper Mario route or maybe go full 3D adventure game with some RPG mechanics.

Spoiler

Just don't list to the TTYD crowd.

 

[ngpdrew]

You are brave.

I prefer the first two games and liked TOK. I would be interested to see what an RPG from IS looks like in current year but I’m also cool with them experimenting.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

It's already like 80% of the way there though. They might as well finish the job at this point!

Obviously the next game would expand on the real-time movement mechanics and combat that's already there (because you're right, it's quite basic as it is).

Otherwise, I'd really struggle to think of an existing Nintendo IP more fitting to fill the 3D Zelda hole TBH (apart from Zelda itself, obviously). Golden Sun is the next closest thing, but that's heavily steeped in RPG mechanics that I feel would be to its detriment to take away from it.

the two startropics fans that are still alive are on their way to rough you up

 

[Dcubed]

the two startropics fans that are still alive are on their way to rough you up

LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!
​

Ok, I might've forgotten about Startropics... shh...

 

[WestEgg]

I’m honestly up for whatever. TTYD is still my overall favorite, but I also loved Origami King quite a bit.

 

[Maronic03]

I’m honestly up for whatever. TTYD is still my overall favorite, but I also loved Origami King quite a bit.

I could honestly copy paste your comment, I am in the exact same situation.

 

[Metroid]

I don't actively care about the series at this point, but all three options have merit. TTYD is one of my favorite games on the GameCube so a new Mario RPG would be nice since they're dead right now, but TOK wasn't bad and I think they're close to really perfecting the new style of game. I could see the next one truly being something special with a little more refinement.

As for the third option, I'm always down for experimentation and I loved SPM.

 

[The Captain]

They should both return to the series’ RPG roots and at the same time try new stuff with it. My favorite game period is TTYD, but I understand the importance of innovation. They should continue building what they started with but also add some freshness with each new iteration.

Not looking for a TTYD 2 I just want the game to be refined, expanded, and improved upon while added insteresting mixups just like the Zelda and 3D Mario series.

I really liked Super because while still being more action oriented they still had some of those RPG mechanics and creativity to really bring the game together and made it work. TOK’s macho battles and the final boss weren’t ground breaking but they were still way more engaging than the common regular battles that took place in the entire game.

I feel like there is much untapped potential in a gameplay style like the TOK macho battles. Imagine bosses that get way more interesting and creative than the Buzzy Beetle fight. Imagine Mario having a more expansive moveset in the over world macho battles than just being his hammer. Perhaps badges/partners that you find can be equipped and expand marios movement/moveset?

If the series HAS to change for whatever reason then keep some mechanics that worked, such as exp, lvl up, badges, etc. but its not a sin to take the series into new directions while still maintaining creativity and originality in story, world building, character design, and basic working gameplay fundamentals.

All this being said if they do just end up making a TTYD 2 I’d probably enjoy it a lot and be glad they went back to their roots but the series doesn't need to stay stagnant and throw innovation out the window because of it.

 

[rickyson33]

I am a Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door fan, so that's the option my vote will go to.

With that being said, I think that, ultimately, what needs to be done is that the series must choose whether it wants to be an RPG or an action-adventure product. This weird middle-ground on which it stands right now is very shaky, because it doesn't make sense for it to remain attached to turn-based battles when there's no level-progression system. So what we end up with is a good action-adventure game whose flow is interrupted by meaningless battles that severely hurt the experience.

So I say they must either go the Super Paper Mario way and ditch those combats altogether, or bring back experience points.

yeah this is pretty much how I feel

this weird in between approach they try and do just strikes me as bad game design

I do miss the RPG stuff but if they don't want that the least they could do is sever things entirely and make it more coherent

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!
​

Ok, I might've forgotten about Startropics... shh...

In all seriousness, I think my issue with Paper Mario becoming a "replacement" for OoT-style Zelda is that it feels more like isometric 2D Zelda. OoT was revolutionary for its time because it used 3D space in interesting ways, both in exploration and combat. Paper Mario feels very limited in that area. There's no way to make a Paper Mario game with Z-targeting for example.

 

[Dcubed]

In all seriousness, I think my issue with Paper Mario becoming a "replacement" for OoT-style Zelda is that it feels more like isometric 2D Zelda. OoT was revolutionary for its time because it used 3D space in interesting ways, both in exploration and combat. Paper Mario feels very limited in that area. There's no way to make a Paper Mario game with Z-targeting for example.

And the last traditional 2D Zelda game we had was... 10 years ago?

There's a big gaping hole to fill there too. Hell, Paper Mario would essentially be a hybrid of 2D and 3D Zelda in that regard (an isometric perspective with true height & elevation), which is pretty unique even amongst Zelda games.

It doesn't have to be exactly like 3D or 2D Zelda. Being a blend of the two is just fine.

And it's pretty easy to see how they could integrate more real-time combat mechanics within Paper Mario... Throughout the game, Mario could gain the ability use bob-ombs to fight and blow up walls/objects, use Koopa Shells to attack enemies and hit distant switches and objects, steal a boomerang from a Boomerang Bro and use it like... well... a boomerang from Zelda! And that's just stuff I've nicked from previous PM and Zelda games; even if they didn't invent completely new items, they could easily draw from the wider Mario universe's array of items & powerups (easy to see how finding a Cat Suit could allow Mario to climb up to reach places he couldn't before...).

His Hammer could also get augmented with different abilities like Quake Hammer (causing shockwaves that damage enemies and can knock down objects & items that are high up), Ice/Fire Hammer etc (hell, they could even use Badges for this!).

There's plenty of scope here for puzzle & dungeon design in the traditional Zelda mold, as well as engaging and interesting combat mechanics.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

And the last traditional 2D Zelda game we had was... 11 years ago?

There's a big gaping hole to fill there too. Hell, Paper Mario would essentially be a hybrid of 2D and 3D Zelda in that regard (an isometric perspective with true height & elevation), which is pretty unique even amongst Zelda games.

It doesn't have to be exactly like 3D or 2D Zelda. Being a blend of the two is just fine.

And it's pretty easy to see how they could integrate more real-time combat mechanics within Paper Mario... Throughout the game, Mario could gain the ability use bob-ombs to fight and blow up walls/objects, use Koopa Shells to attack enemies and hit distant switches and objects, steal a boomerang from a Boomerang Bro and use it like... well... a boomerang from Zelda! And that's just stuff I've nicked from previous PM and Zelda games; even if they didn't invent completely new items, they could easily draw from the wider Mario universe's array of items & powerups (easy to see how finding a Cat Suit could allow Mario to climb up to reach places he couldn't before...).

His Hammer could also get augmented with different abilities like Quake Hammer (causing shockwaves that damage enemies and can knock down objects & items that are high up), Ice/Fire Hammer etc (hell, they could even use Badges for this!).

There's plenty of scope here for puzzle & dungeon design in the traditional Zelda mold, as well as engaging and interesting combat mechanics.

But again, this doesn't make it 3D Zelda, it just makes it 2D Zelda with extra bells and whistles.

 

[The Captain]

I want Paper Mario to become traditional pre-BOTW 3D Zelda.

And after playing Origami King? That's exactly where I expect the series to go next. They're gonna ditch turn-based battles entirely and go for 100% real-time combat (ALA the Origami King Paper Macho battles; but much more fleshed out).

Half of the reason why Paper Mario ditched RPG mechanics in the first place was because the Mario & Luigi series made it redundant (the other half being that IS were out of ideas with the original formula and were sick of making traditional RPGs). With BOTW now leaving a gaping hole in Nintendo's Action-Adventure lineup, and Origami King already being so close to traditional Zelda style gameplay? (and with that game's Ring Combat being a bit of a dud), it makes perfect sense for them to go down this route and expand on the parts of Origami King that were actually good.

The Paper Macho battles are a preview of where the series is going next.

It would be great! They could do so many things with it. If you add exp or another form of a progression reward system (that’s meaningful) for defeating enemies and bosses or have badges/partner alter how you can control Mario or alter how Mario attacks (in real time) they could have a winner in their hands.

 

[Pierceyonder]

The original Paper Mario is my favourite game ever, so I am biased in wanting a return to that style. However, I also really ended up enjoying Origami King (I even like the puzzle style combat and think that's what we should be expanding on instead of the real-time action stuff) and I wouldn't dislike something similar to it that harkened back to the aesthetic of the older games with new locales, character designs, etc. TOK kind of heeds back to that in moments, but there's still a scent of meddling to it.

Here's the caveat though: I do not want this to happen if we're going to have no Mario RPGs at all like we do now. I love PM and M&L, and knowing that neither of them exist to fill a Mario RPG gap really bums me out. I wasn't the biggest fan of the most recent M&L games (I did still like them but Superstar Saga is still the best for my money), but knowing that we had a time period where they were releasing two Mario RPG series that were really quite good makes me miss those games immensely.

 

[ZephyrPhoenix]

just as long as its not Sticker Star or Color Splash. And I guess Origami King but only in terms of gameplay, everything else about OK was fine.

 

[Brofield]

I've played PM64 (currently on my second playthrough now), TTYD (countless times), SPM (once), and TOK (once)

Completely selfish and indulgent wish? Go back to further expand on TTYD. Sidequests, more partner abilities and battle options, post-game content, witty dialogue and characters that riff on existing Mario universe citizens. Hell, even throw in a playable Luigi chapter that expands on the adventure shenanigans he gets involved in.

Next best alternative? IntSys does whatever they feel like, and somehow Mario & Luigi returns to carry on the RPG spirit. I've already washed my hands of Paper Mario after TOK and I've accepted the series has moved on without me. I'll contentedly skip all future games unless they're on a steep discount and/or multiple reviews from other 64/TTYD fans specifically quote verbatim, "the combat system is a return to form."

 

[GamerJM]

RPG gameplay should come back. I'm a pretty basic online-Nintendo fan who thinks tTYD was the peak of the series and that everything after SPM has been bad. Progression mechanics like the paint and confetti that incentivize battles are worse than just standard RPG mechanics. Additionally it feels like the newer games have an assload of annoying backtracking and poorly designed point-and-click adventure game style puzzles in place of a more traditional RPG structure.

A new RPG game wouldn't be super original, no, but neither will Mario Kart 9. Not every game has to be. I would enjoy a standard RPG that plays like the first two games. And all we have is Bug Fables, which doesn't cut it for me.

 

[freedomseekr]

Honestly, I don't care that much about Paper Mario, but if I had to put my 0.02€ in a basket, I'd choose a return to the first two games.

Using the series to "revive" ALttP/OoT style Zelda games would be fine too, but it'd have to be oriented more towards ALttP/OoT/MM and less the stuff that Zelda gave us with Wind Waker and beyond leading up to BotW.

 

[souio]

I agree with the Paper Macho route. Since they're calling Paper Mario an "Adventure Game" now, I think it'd be best if they just ditched all the turn-based combat and made it into real time. With modern PM based so much on exploring, adventure and environments, having gimmicky slow turn-based battles really destroys the pace for me. If they combine modern Paper Mario's environmental interaction with Super Paper Mario's real-time combat, I think it'd be the best of both worlds.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

RPG gameplay should come back. I'm a pretty basic online-Nintendo fan who thinks tTYD was the peak of the series and that everything after SPM has been bad. Progression mechanics like the paint and confetti that incentivize battles are worse than just standard RPG mechanics. Additionally it feels like the newer games have an assload of annoying backtracking and poorly designed point-and-click adventure game style puzzles in place of a more traditional RPG structure.

A new RPG game wouldn't be super original, no, but neither will Mario Kart 9. Not every game has to be. I would enjoy a standard RPG that plays like the first two games. And all we have is Bug Fables, which doesn't cut it for me.

Nobody who dislikes backtracking should ever defend TTYD, lol. That has infinitely more backtracking than origami king.

 

[Hailinel]

I voted Modern, but honestly I just say let IS cook.

 

[WestEgg]

Nobody who dislikes backtracking should ever defend TTYD, lol. That has infinitely more backtracking than origami king.

It’s kind of funny that the Creepy Steeple is usually cited as the big example of poor backtracking, but the setting and characters make it still probably my favorite part of the game. Boggly Woods on the other hand is rather straightforward and linear and is an absolute slog to get through. I think the latter half of the game (not even counting the infamous general white search) gets pretty padded with backtracking though.

 

[Thunder84]

They need to quit it with the experimental combat. I'm fine with the current direction if they go to realtime combat.

But I'd rather have old-school Paper Mario back.

 

[Cubs017]

I actually would be fine with Paper Mario being a bit more experimental. Origami King was fun.

I do think that there should be a separate series that does more traditional RPG type of stuff with Mario though. Whether that's Mario & Luigi, Mario RPG, or something new.

 

[Yoshifan31]

I want Paper Mario to become traditional pre-BOTW 3D Zelda.

And after playing Origami King? That's exactly where I expect the series to go next. They're gonna ditch turn-based battles entirely and go for 100% real-time combat (ALA the Origami King Paper Macho battles; but much more fleshed out).

Half of the reason why Paper Mario ditched RPG mechanics in the first place was because the Mario & Luigi series made it redundant (the other half being that IS were out of ideas with the original formula and were sick of making traditional RPGs). With BOTW now leaving a gaping hole in Nintendo's Action-Adventure lineup, and Origami King already being so close to traditional Zelda style gameplay? (and with that game's Ring Combat being a bit of a dud), it makes perfect sense for them to go down this route and expand on the parts of Origami King that were actually good.

The Paper Macho battles are a preview of where the series is going next.

Nah this really doesn’t work for multiple reasons

I always thought this sentiment was cope and cognitive dissonance. I remember when Odyssey came out people were saying stuff like “the Sea Kingdom kinda feels like a Zelda dungeon”. It’s like they resigned to the idea that Zelda is now stuck to chase open world design trends and having dungeons is impossible because it conflicts with total freedom or something (it doesn’t). Having dungeons, having focused level design isn’t exclusive to Zelda. Paper Mario was always good about this, it always had noteworthy level design. It’s just that Origami King is way more explicit about it with its themed elemental temples and that one very obvious reference

Even then, it’s missing way too much before it can even be directly compared to 3D Zelda, which is an action-adventure series. The keyword here is action. Paper Mario could become a pure adventure game but I doubt it since Mario is at its core a very kinetic series, it’s a platformer, its RPG spinoffs have some sort of timing element. If Paper Mario was purely an adventure/puzzle game akin to point and click ones it would miss the point of Mario, like you need a way to interact with enemies and such. I really don’t think the Macho battles are anything to build on, I mean you can barely gauge your hammer’s range. If you want Paper Mario to have real time action combat it would just become another isometric action game, meanwhile the series is notable for its unique 2,5 D perspective. The one game that actually managed to have real time combat is Super Paper Mario really so if you want real time in that series they would just need to make it a sidescroller. Other than that I feel like it’s unevitable that they just go back on making it an RPG. Dunno about Sticker Star but Color Splash would have been a perfectly serviceable RPG if its combat just ripped off Baten Kaitos’ battle system instead of having breakable cards that you fill with paint and such. It’s understandable to streamline RPG mechanics (even the first two Paper Mario games were very simple on that regard, much less complex than the vast majority of games in the genre), but the problem with the last two battle systems is that while they are very explicit in terms of being “puzzle battles”, while they have certain sensible design decisions to them, they are simply too slow and not as fun as the rest of the game. The ring system is a prime example, the bosses are alright but the regular enemies… every encounter basically has you solve the ring puzzle, then defeat all enemies in a set amount of actions to then receive coin bonuses at the end. You can beat enemy groups in one attack if you actually use your many breakable weapons, so it encourages you to use those and battle items. You can practice ring puzzle patterns in-game. This all sounds fine in theory, but in practice it just makes encounters so slow. On top of that, while the game has damage values (you also level up when you increase your max HP), you never really know how much damage you’re making, so it basically hides information that would otherwise help you choosing the right weapon to make these already slow encounters end quicker. That’s a pretty noticeable flaw in a game with otherwise impeccable pacing. Every type of Paper Mario game delivered on what the series does best, being a memorable adventure with good pacing and unique scenarios. The modern ones just get more flack due to the battle systems and the generic Toads really. Just go back to a basic RPG system (or just make a game like Super Paper Mario. Basically just don’t make enemy encounters ruin the pacing) and stop overusing Toads, that would make everyone shut up