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StarTopic Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack |ST| New 2024 Poll Up

How will Nintendo handle the NSO with the launch of the Switch 2

  • Everything on the service becomes playable on launch day of the new system.

    Votes: 148 76.7%
  • A slow roll out with a promise to move everything over within 12 months from launch day

    Votes: 25 13.0%
  • LOL Nintendo is going to start all over with just NES games in late 2025

    Votes: 18 9.3%
  • Nothing will transfer over because the Switch 2 won't be backwards compatible with the Switch 1

    Votes: 2 1.0%

  • Total voters
    193
Or maybe there's an official and never released english translation

I would play the fuck out of N64 Animal Crossing back to back with New Horizons.

EDIT: By the way, i remember Pokémon Stadium 2 also using the rtc, right? Unless it depended on the Game Boy cart connected in the transfer pack, but i don't think so.
Animal Crossing 64 wasn't released in the west due to the difficulty of translating all the references to Japanese holidays IIRC. I don't think that's a game you localize without a plan to release, even back then.
This is interesting. It looks like they've experimented with features which aren't being used for anything right now - including the expansion pak.
We do know the expansion pak is going to be used sometime shortly for Majora's Mask. It doesn't strike me as odd that that's here.

The controller pak and transfer pak are still intriguing to me.
 
This is interesting. It looks like they've experimented with features which aren't being used for anything right now - including the expansion pak. MVG has a new video out which I'm not able to watch/listen to yet, but it sounds like his argument/analysis is that the reason we have issues with N64 emulation now is because Nintendo are using an over-arching emulator for all the games rather than packaging an emulator with each ROM. I need to watch the video, like I said, but I'm curious as to how much difference that would make - unless Nintendo manually adjusted the releases in the Wii era? Or manually adjusted some releases? Given the volume of VC games released, I find it hard to believe they did more than tweak individual games.
That argument (if that is what MVG is saying, haven't watched the video myself either) lacks a bit of perspective. Using an overarching emulator isn't the real problem; each game is still manually adjusted via config files on Wii U and now Switch. Even if the process is more externalised compared to the native codes / hacks set to run for each game on Wii, you can't say there was no care or thought put into how each individual game runs, because there was. I say the problems come down to optimisation and thoroughness, which is where I think they've faltered so far in comparison to NST's efforts on Wii.

It feels like the app was rushed out before ironing out all the kinks, and I hope the team behind it get the chance to rectify the errors as soon as they can.

Isn’t the GameCube game basically the exact same game? Couldn’t they patch in the translation from that?
Animal Crossing might be one of NoA's most expansive localisation efforts ever; it added so much new content that the game was rereleased a second time in Japan as Doubutsu no Mori e+ to give Japan some of those new features (and even more).

Part of that localisation process was replacing Japanese holidays with American ones, which complicates backporting the GameCube localisation to the original N64 release.
 
Or maybe there's an official and never released english translation

I would play the fuck out of N64 Animal Crossing back to back with New Horizons.

EDIT: By the way, i remember Pokémon Stadium 2 also using the rtc, right? Unless it depended on the Game Boy cart connected in the transfer pack, but i don't think so.

Nah, only Animal Crossing had an actual RTC chip in it. PS2 did have Expansion Pak support, though.
 
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Animal Crossing 64 wasn't released in the west due to the difficulty of translating all the references to Japanese holidays IIRC. I don't think that's a game you localize without a plan to release, even back then.

We do know the expansion pak is going to be used sometime shortly for Majora's Mask. It doesn't strike me as odd that that's here.

The controller pak and transfer pak are still intriguing to me.
Yes, sorry - I keep getting the various 'paks' mixed up! I mean controller pak - there are games out right now which could use that, but the feature isn't available yet. It strengthens what MondoMega is saying:
That argument (if that is what MVG is saying, haven't watched the video myself either) lacks a bit of perspective. Using an overarching emulator isn't the real problem; each game is still manually adjusted via config files on Wii U and now Switch. Even if the process is more externalised compared to the native codes / hacks set to run for each game on Wii, you can't say there was no care or thought put into how each individual game runs, because there was. I say the problems come down to optimisation and thoroughness, which is where I think they've faltered so far in comparison to NST's efforts on Wii.

It feels like the app was rushed out before ironing out all the kinks, and I hope the team behind it get the chance to rectify the errors as soon as they can.
On the first bolded part, I'm going off of Nintendo Life's summary of the video which, let's face it, might be misleading and not representative of what MVG says. From Nintendo Life:
The Wii era of N64 emulation is still considered to be "the best" because each game ran its own version of the existing emulator designed for GC. For the Wii U generation though, Nintendo decided to introduce an "overarching emulator" it had built to power all 21 N64 games available on the platform. This supposedly resulted in all sorts of issues. In addition to this was the use of a darker filter - washing out all of the games.

N64 titles on Switch also make use of an overarching emulator, which explains why the emulation might not match past efforts.
I have to edit video material and do videocalls in work today or I'd have MVG on my second screen as I worked so I could see for myself. I'll aim to take a look tonight, but a huge red flag with the words 'Nintendo Life's summary might be misleading' is what I'll wave for current and future posters who see this discussion. I don't want to misrepresent what MVG actually says in the video.

But yes, right now, given the presence of different features which aren't yet in use (even in cases where it makes sense to use them, like Mario Kart 64 and WinBack), I'm assuming that N64 games were rolled out with issues that will be patched. Some of the things I want to be patched - like the border options and button remapping - haven't happened at all on the other emulators, so I'm cautious on that front, but they should at least aim to minimise input lag, fix the particular issues in Ocarina, and introduce some of the features which are missing (like controller pak support).
 
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Not trusting a video called "Nintendo used to be good at N64 emulation" even if it comes from MVG. Sorry

First, the title is sensationalist
Second, the thumbnail is ONCE AGAIN Ocarina of Time
Third, he's obviously capitalising. He released another video on the same theme last week for fucks sake.
 
They opted for a generalized layout that lets you hit all the C buttons without touching the stick if you want. Wii and Wii U mapped at most three C buttons to modern buttons, leaving at least one button stranded on the stick.

Giving the hold button for all four so you could press C-up without the stick took away C-right as a standard binding.
Yeah and that's the problem with a generalized layout. Like, the D-pad literally does nothing in OoT, there's no reason the minimap toggle has to be taking up a shoulder button.

It's weird that OoT has so many issues, you'd think Zelda is the one game on the service they'd really want to get right.
 
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That argument (if that is what MVG is saying, haven't watched the video myself either) lacks a bit of perspective. Using an overarching emulator isn't the real problem; each game is still manually adjusted via config files on Wii U and now Switch. Even if the process is more externalised compared to the native codes / hacks set to run for each game on Wii, you can't say there was no care or thought put into how each individual game runs, because there was. I say the problems come down to optimisation and thoroughness, which is where I think they've faltered so far in comparison to NST's efforts on Wii.

It feels like the app was rushed out before ironing out all the kinks, and I hope the team behind it get the chance to rectify the errors as soon as they can.
Lmao wtf that is such a misleading take on the actual issue at hand here. Agreed, how the emulator is packaged and bundled does not signify anything about the time they took for each game. Yes, that time was clearly lacking / misguided, but it's not the core issue. Surprising coming from MVG, tho I haven't watched the video myself either... either (yay telephone).
 
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Isn’t the GameCube game basically the exact same game? Couldn’t they patch in the translation from that?
The GameCube game is a heavily expanded version of the n64 game with a ton of new features, items, dialogue, etc. NoA did such a great job with it that NoJ retranslated it back into Japanese and re-released it Japan as Dōbutsu no Mori e+
 
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The per game emulator vs overarching emulator is IMO chasing a red herring to explain the current emulation issues. I will say that it made sense to do it on Wii because of how weak the hardware was for it’s time and the overall memory limitations of that era. And I also don’t think that approach makes much sense these days given how much stronger hardware is these days. Remember a huge drawback of per game emulation was launching each game individually on the Wii and treating it as its own unique game. Swapping back and forth took time.

It’s simply more efficient to have a strong core emulator with per game hacks and tweaks. Which is the approach that literally every PC emulator uses. One benefit of an overarching emulator is that you have a quicker UI for navigating games, you can implement system wide features (like the controller pack) instead of implementing it for every single game individually. If you figure out a proper way to emulate a graphical effect you can apply that to all games and eliminate scripts and hacks in the individual games.

That isn’t why the emulation is “worse” IMO. I personally think it comes down to lack of dev time and optimization. The approach on Wii made sense for it’s time, but emulation development has advanced a lot in 15 years and per game emulation makes little sense to do anymore.
 
Not sure if this was shared here earlier, but someone did a teardown of the N64 controller. I think the relevant parts here are A) it is possible a shell swap could be done in the foreseeable future if Nintendo doesn't want to provide their own colour options, and B) the analog stick has been updated to a 4pin connection compared to the original's 6pin connection. What else this means for other improvements to strengthen its durability remains to be seen, but hopefully a good sign regardless.

 
Finally got the controller today and I love it! I was waiting for it to arrive before I properly tried Sin and Punishment...

And wow, Sin and Punishment owns. Like, what a fun game. Can't wait to play through all of it over the next few days when I have a bit of free time.

Overall I don't personally have a single issue with any of the games. NOTE: I acknowledge there are issues and people are justified in talking about it if they want improvements.

I'm just saying that personally none of them are noticeable when I play and I'm having a great time revisiting the N64 library. Can't wait for F-Zero, Kirby and Paper Mario 😁
 
0
All this talk about controller pack emulation (which they should totally have added for the price they're charging), was it implemented in the VC versions?
Not sure if this was shared here earlier, but someone did a teardown of the N64 controller. I think the relevant parts here are A) it is possible a shell swap could be done in the foreseeable future if Nintendo doesn't want to provide their own colour options, and B) the analog stick has been updated to a 4pin connection compared to the original's 6pin connection. What else this means for other improvements to strengthen its durability remains to be seen, but hopefully a good sign regardless.



So, good overall?

The true reason they half-assed OoT emulation is to make people buy OoT HD next year.

If that's why they did it then it's acceptable losses. I would love to see the N64 games get a proper HD treatment. The 3DS remakes look great but that's on a teeny weeny screen. Not sure blowing that up would do it any favours.
 
All this talk about controller pack emulation (which they should totally have added for the price they're charging), was it implemented in the VC versions?


So, good overall?



If that's why they did it then it's acceptable losses. I would love to see the N64 games get a proper HD treatment. The 3DS remakes look great but that's on a teeny weeny screen. Not sure blowing that up would do it any favours.
No VC did not have controller memory Pak support
 
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All this talk about controller pack emulation (which they should totally have added for the price they're charging), was it implemented in the VC versions?


So, good overall?



If that's why they did it then it's acceptable losses. I would love to see the N64 games get a proper HD treatment. The 3DS remakes look great but that's on a teeny weeny screen. Not sure blowing that up would do it any favours.
Looked it up, turns out the lack of ghost saves in MK64 emulation is not new. That being said, it's still ridiculous that it hasn't been turned on when the controller features the option in the code according to OatmealDome.

And I want to believe good overall. Granted, I'm still waiting on my N64 controller to be delivered and I have yet to hold one myself haha
 
All this talk about controller pack emulation (which they should totally have added for the price they're charging), was it implemented in the VC versions?


So, good overall?



If that's why they did it then it's acceptable losses. I would love to see the N64 games get a proper HD treatment. The 3DS remakes look great but that's on a teeny weeny screen. Not sure blowing that up would do it any favours.
Nah, OoT 3D looks pretty nice in HD, ground textures are just low res.
zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-uhd-52.jpg
zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-uhd-03.jpg
zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-uhd-14.jpg
zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-uhd-05.jpg

A simple remaster that just improves the textures would be enough in my opinion. That being said I’d love to see OoT get a full graphical makeover with modern visuals.
 
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If that's why they did it then it's acceptable losses. I would love to see the N64 games get a proper HD treatment. The 3DS remakes look great but that's on a teeny weeny screen. Not sure blowing that up would do it any favours.
The 3DS top screen is 400x240 in 2D mode. Most N64 games, including OoT and MM, originally ran at 320x240.

Just rendering the 3DS remakes at 720p-1080p wouldn't be as good as a dedicated new effort with new assets (which I do realize is your whole point lol), but with the increased model detail, framerate, and texture detail over the N64 originals I think they'd look way better than you'd expect; despite being designed for a small screen it'd still be a straight upgrade (minus the whole lighting debate) over what we have on NSO now.

I'd love to get Star Fox 64 3D in HD as well as the Zeldas.
 
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MVG's position on this doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. Aside from maybe the input lag (and even that I find doubtful), how the configuration is supplied shouldn't affect the emulation accuracy. I think it's pretty clear that Nintendo has had trouble upgrading their N64 emulation for a more modern programmable GPU, and their inclination to uprez their old 3D games is exacerbating things a bit (I've seen some evidence the texture seaming issue is a general problem with boosting N64 resolution that other emulators have had to deal with).
All this talk about controller pack emulation (which they should totally have added for the price they're charging), was it implemented in the VC versions?
Nintendo has never supported it, but that's really never been okay. It should not be a difficult peripheral to emulate.
 
Well I finally bit the bullet and upgraded. $70 (including tax) isn't terrible for a Family Membership.
 
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Interesting. I might have to dig out my adaptor and see what it's like with the current mapping.

edit - can we remap GameCube controllers on Switch?

I don't know, but if you can't I know you can remap a GC controller with an 8Bitdo Gbros adapter.
 
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That's how ZFG was playing, so yeah, it works.
ZFG was using a third party adapter that lets you remap stuff.
Interesting. I might have to dig out my adaptor and see what it's like with the current mapping.

edit - can we remap GameCube controllers on Switch?
No, and I believe Z on the GCN controller maps to ZR, so you'll be left without a Z button.
 
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I played through Water Temple in OoT last night, and it has to be one of my favourite Zelda dungeons. Making the Iron Boots a normal item in the 3DS version was the right choice, but it isn't really as bad in this version as it's often made to seem.
 
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Guys I don't know if this is allowed, I will remove the comment if it isn't

I have 3 spaces on my family plan (+ expansion pack), if anyone wants to join. $10.50 for the year (via paypal) it expires november 4th 2022

I can add you before you pay, so you can see it's not a scam :ROFLMAO:
 
Chiming in to say I'm up to 60 stars now on Mario 64. Between long hours at work and making progress in Deadly Prem I haven't been playing as much this week. I had totally forgot about the special stars you get for collecting 100 coins in each stage until I read about it on an in-game signpost. So going back and revisiting earlier stages.

Nintendo, please fix the weird texture seams that keep popping up.

Hope we have some fixes patched in before Xmas along with announcements about future games.
 
Guys I don't know if this is allowed, I will remove the comment if it isn't

I have 3 spaces on my family plan (+ expansion pack), if anyone wants to join. $10.50 for the year (via paypal) it expires november 4th 2022

I can add you before you pay, so you can see it's not a scam :ROFLMAO:
There’s a thread actually
Chiming in to say I'm up to 60 stars now on Mario 64. Between long hours at work and making progress in Deadly Prem I haven't been playing as much this week. I had totally forgot about the special stars you get for collecting 100 coins in each stage until I read about it on an in-game signpost. So going back and revisiting earlier stages.

Nintendo, please fix the weird texture seams that keep popping up.

Hope we have some fixes patched in before Xmas along with announcements about future games.
It’s the cost of performance and resolution, most emulators use this rendering method as well
 
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I can live with the boarders, even if they suck. Not having button mapping as an option sucks. It makes the og N64 controller practically a must.
I did end up ordering the N64 NSO controller in large part because of the lack of button remapping (though that’s not going to help when trying to play in handheld mode). I do still hope that gets implemented in the future.
 
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Just got the N64 controller today, and in addition to it working great and really improving the experience with the N64 games, I was surprised to see the menu changes — both visual and audio — when the controller is connected. Neat!
 
0
I'm really bummed the genesis controller can't be remapped for the classics collection. Hopefully it either gets patched or most games end up in the expansion pack. Works great in retroarch though!
 
I wish we'd get more news on when to expect the next wave of games. Practically foaming at the mouth waiting for Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie.
 
I wish we'd get more news on when to expect the next wave of games. Practically foaming at the mouth waiting for Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie.
I feel like Banjo-Kazooie is something they will almost certainly add by Christmas, maybe even on that exact day. Nintendo is gonna push the game heavily to encourage new Switch owners to get the Expansion Pack.
 
I feel like Banjo-Kazooie is something they will almost certainly add by Christmas, maybe even on that exact day. Nintendo is gonna push the game heavily to encourage new Switch owners to get the Expansion Pack.
I expect the December update to be bigger than people think
 
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I feel like Banjo-Kazooie is something they will almost certainly add by Christmas, maybe even on that exact day. Nintendo is gonna push the game heavily to encourage new Switch owners to get the Expansion Pack.
That'd be pretty magical me considering I got that game as a Christmas present along with my N64.
 
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I think a December update is quite likely. I really want a patch for Ocarina, and I really, really want F Zero X before too long.

Relatedly: it's super foggy in my neck of the woods today. Maybe NERD did something...
 
I'm really bummed the genesis controller can't be remapped for the classics collection. Hopefully it either gets patched or most games end up in the expansion pack. Works great in retroarch though!
That bums me out too. They haven't been made available in the UK yet, but no remapping really puts me off. I wonder if they don't allow remapping to prevent somebody from effectively locking themselves out of their controller? IIRC you have to have access to the A and B buttons, right? There wouldn't be much more to remap on a 3 button controller. Does the Classics Collection not allow for remapping within the game?
 
That bums me out too. They haven't been made available in the UK yet, but no remapping really puts me off. I wonder if they don't allow remapping to prevent somebody from effectively locking themselves out of their controller? IIRC you have to have access to the A and B buttons, right? There wouldn't be much more to remap on a 3 button controller. Does the Classics Collection not allow for remapping within the game?
It doesn’t. It displays two layout options but you don’t get to make any changes. Seems like a big missed opportunity. For some reason the c button is mapped to r by the switch system. Weird choice.
 
I beat Sin and Punishment last night with my N64 controller.

Such an interesting game.

I struggled with the last boss big time using the left side of the controller grip. My right thumb just wasn’t nimble enough to let me move the target quickly enough. When I eventually switch to the right hand grip and got my left thumb on the stick I got it straight away. (Switching quickly back to the left hand grip for moving to hit the big fireballs back).

Not sure how the mapping is to the Joycon, but can’t imagine it would be much fun without the N64 controller.

On a side note, I tried playing Castlevania 3 with the N64 controller! It felt pretty good! Is the dpad on the N64 considered better than the Pro Controller?
 


I think it's mostly fair. But I do have an issue with his meta commentary about those defending the service. It's a straw man to say people are attacking those who point out the shortcomings. The "defending" is more against hyperbole and outrage merchants.
 
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Came across this story on Nintendo Life, about a games preservationist offering a cash reward for 'lost' tracks from the Satellaview sequel to the original F Zero.

These are the kinds of things Nintendo could make available through NSO to help add more value to the service and to make it a bit more special. How feasible is it to emulate this stuff, assuming Nintendo still have the original files?
 
Do we know when we can expect more games??

On a side note, I tried playing Castlevania 3 with the N64 controller! It felt pretty good! Is the dpad on the N64 considered better than the Pro Controller?
Pro Controller is the worst d-pad Nintendo has ever put out, any of the old controllers they put out for NSO will have better d-pads more or less.
 


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