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Pre-Release Metroid Prime 4: Pre-Release Discussion Thread

I wonder if a lot of the staff at Retro are just sick of Metroid now. Especially if Prime 4 isn't coming until 2025. If I remember correctly, many of the original employees got franchise fatigue after Prime 2.

Now the new (and some old) Retro employees haven't released a game in years outside of Prime Remastered and have been working on Prime 4 for 5 years. Must be tough. Even harder when you want to share your work with the world but can't.

If anyone from Retro Studios reads this, we're all rooting for you. It's going to be a masterpiece, I just know it.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Or it’s a Metroid Direct that will also announce Metroid Prime 2 + 3 pack and Samus Returns port
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TheSpaceBetween said:
Hopefully we'll get at the very least get MP2R this year.
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It must have been the other thread where I said Nintendo's going to repeat the previous Prime trilogy strategy, continuing the releases and using an improved IR-imitation on the new console for Corruption and a Trilogy release.

But I still think the Metroid Direct would be improved by not having a simple Samus Returns port and instead giving us a Metroid Classics Collection (titled simply "Metroid") -- Metroid 1-4 with the original games and also the remakes where applicable.

In my mind, this would make the original four titles Metroid and the Trilogy Metroid Prime, where Dread can start its own dreadful storyline and the Prime 4 can do similar.

Bonus if there's a rad third-persom 3D title to round it out.
 
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NateDrake said:
And being aware of only a Switch version of Prime 4 doesn't mean there isn't some other version.
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Right, one can absolutely say "I only know of [this thing]" without it indicating "[this other thing] doesn't exist." One can be used to imply the other, but it's not intrinsic to the statement.

It's different from saying, say, "I don't know of any upcoming major Nintendo titles, so they don't exist" -- which, for another example, I'm pretty sure Brazil has recently indicated a lack of knowledge regarding major upcoming titles, without saying that means there aren't any.
 
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I get the idea that even being crossgen, even being built around the Switch 1's capabilities, Prime 4 is certainly more valuable for its image than as a big seller. This means that releasing it once the Switch 2 comes out, even without any impressive upgrades, will help build a positive impression about the diversity of Nintendo's forthcoming catalogue.

However, I also think Prime 4 would complement a Pokémon game perfectly, in terms of demographics, buzz, sales profile. Releasing it before Switch 2 would have huge benefits in terms of the perception of this year, sending out a positive image and helping to defuse any potential panic or impatience about Switch 2.
 
Luggage said:
I wonder if a lot of the staff at Retro are just sick of Metroid now. Especially if Prime 4 isn't coming until 2025. If I remember correctly, many of the original employees got franchise fatigue after Prime 2.
Click to expand...
There was indeed Metroid fatigue at the time, but the Wii being underpowered relative to the PS3 and 360 was also a contributing factor. In an interview with KIWI TALKZ, Jack Mathews (lead technical engineer on the Prime trilogy) mentioned being disappointed with the Wii's lack of a notable power leap over the GameCube, and that staying with Nintendo made him feel creatively boxed in, with others at Retro feeling similarly. He cites it as one of the reasons he left the studio shortly after Prime 3's completion. It's now many years later, and Retro unfortunately finds themselves in a similar spot (the Switch is certainly no powerhouse), so I sympathize. Always amazing what they're able to achieve in spite of weak hardware, though.
 
Aurc said:
There was indeed Metroid fatigue at the time, but the Wii being underpowered relative to the PS3 and 360 was also a contributing factor. In an interview with KIWI TALKZ, Jack Mathews (lead technical engineer on the Prime trilogy) mentioned being disappointed with the Wii's lack of a notable power leap over the GameCube, and that staying with Nintendo made him feel creatively boxed in, with others at Retro feeling similarly. He cites it as one of the reasons he left the studio shortly after Prime 3's completion. It's now many years later, and Retro unfortunately finds themselves in a similar spot (the Switch is certainly no powerhouse), so I sympathize. Always amazing what they're able to achieve in spite of weak hardware, though.
Click to expand...
Hopefully the upgraded hardware of the Switch's follow-up will entice them to develop more Metroid titles, or at least more games in general.
 
Nintendo is going to release a game they believe will shift units at the launch of Switch 2. Metroid doesn't really fit that criteria, unfortunately. If Prime 4 is ready, the best play for the franchise might be to release it this year and just market the heck out of it. Treat it as THE Nintendo release of the year.
 
I think Metroid Prime 4 could work positioned as a launch window cross-gen release. It isn't huge franchise that sells a lot of copies, but not every game released in the launch year has to be that. What games in the launch year need to do is showcase the breadth and variety of software on display, and Metroid attracts such a different crowd than most Nintendo franchises that people who otherwise wouldn't bother with a Nintendo console might pick one up for Metroid Prime 4, on top of many die-hard fans who will likely opt to buy newer hardware to play the game rather than just buy it on Switch.
 
space_dragon said:
Nintendo is going to release a game they believe will shift units at the launch of Switch 2. Metroid doesn't really fit that criteria, unfortunately. If Prime 4 is ready, the best play for the franchise might be to release it this year and just market the heck out of it. Treat it as THE Nintendo release of the year.
Click to expand...

There's some merit to this line of thought, as Nintendo will want to make sure people have sufficient reason to purchase their new console when it releases (hence why they might push the release back to ensure a proper lineup to start with), and there's no end to people throwing out reminders that Metroid simply isn't that and isn't really that important at all actually and thank you very much. That said, it certainly wouldn't be the only thing being released and would stand in complimentary contrast to other titles. In addition, I think the abject unimportance of Metroid tends to get a tad overplayed, and @ammonite's note in another thread indicates similar:

ammonite said:
The VGC pod last week were talking about how, within Nintendo, Metroid is now viewed as a vital franchise because even though it doesn’t sell many copies, it shifts a totally disproportion amount of hardware for a franchise that ‘small’. The thing is niche, but to it’s niche, a total system seller.
Click to expand...
[Note: I couldn't tell you how much this podcast might know about such matters, but the reasoning seems to track.]

Basically, for as relatively minor as Metroid might seem saleswise, it punches above its weight in selling hardware, in which case it actually makes a lot of sense to time it with a hardware release. Depending on Nintendo's handling of cross-gen here* Metroid could also still benefit from the immense Switch userbase.

Of course, that still puts it up against some heavy hitters, and I can see how positioning it as the largest title in a year lacking in those could be projected to its overall benefit as well. It's really a difference in how Nintendo might highlight its importance. I think Nintendo could make a decent play for the crossgen here, personally, but that's without knowing the fulness of their plans.

*I'm still partial to my idea of a Switch+ line of games, which is marked as playing on Switch but with upgrades -- already on cartridge for ease and marketing purposes -- when played on the new console. Consolidates production and supply lines, as well as retail space, and makes decisions easier for the purchaser. There's still time, Nintendo.
 
space_dragon said:
Nintendo is going to release a game they believe will shift units at the launch of Switch 2. Metroid doesn't really fit that criteria, unfortunately. If Prime 4 is ready, the best play for the franchise might be to release it this year and just market the heck out of it. Treat it as THE Nintendo release of the year.
Click to expand...

Yup, agreed totally. Especially if they release Prime 2 and 3 in the build up to it, I think it could do really well. And give us Zero Mission and Samus Returns for Switch and just go all in on Metroid this year. And then Metroid 6 for Switch 2 in either 2025 or 2026 would be in a great position as well.
 
OctoSplattack said:
I think Metroid Prime 4 could work positioned as a launch window cross-gen release. It isn't huge franchise that sells a lot of copies, but not every game released in the launch year has to be that. What games in the launch year need to do is showcase the breadth and variety of software on display, and Metroid attracts such a different crowd than most Nintendo franchises that people who otherwise wouldn't bother with a Nintendo console might pick one up for Metroid Prime 4, on top of many die-hard fans who will likely opt to buy newer hardware to play the game rather than just buy it on Switch.
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I know I'd be there day one for Switch 2 with Prime 4 as a cross-gen title!
Supreme Overlord said:
There's some merit to this line of thought, as Nintendo will want to make sure people have sufficient reason to purchase their new console when it releases (hence why they might push the release back to ensure a proper lineup to start with), and there's no end to people throwing out reminders that Metroid simply isn't that and isn't really that important at all actually and thank you very much. That said, it certainly wouldn't be the only thing being released and would stand in complimentary contrast to other titles. In addition, I think the abject unimportance of Metroid tends to get a tad overplayed, and @ammonite's note in another thread indicates similar:


[Note: I couldn't tell you how much this podcast might know about such matters, but the reasoning seems to track.]

Basically, for as relatively minor as Metroid might seem saleswise, it punches above its weight in selling hardware, in which case it actually makes a lot of sense to time it with a hardware release. Depending on Nintendo's handling of cross-gen here* Metroid could also still benefit from the immense Switch userbase.

Of course, that still puts it up against some heavy hitters, and I can see how positioning it as the largest title in a year lacking in those could be projected to its overall benefit as well. It's really a difference in how Nintendo might highlight its importance. I think Nintendo could make a decent play for the crossgen here, personally, but that's without knowing the fulness of their plans.

*I'm still partial to my idea of a Switch+ line of games, which is marked as playing on Switch but with upgrades -- already on cartridge for ease and marketing purposes -- when played on the new console. Consolidates production and supply lines, as well as retail space, and makes decisions easier for the purchaser. There's still time, Nintendo.
Click to expand...
I honestly wasn't aware of that info about Metroid and hardware. That's pretty cool to think about, actually!
TheSpaceBetween said:
Yup, agreed totally. Especially if they release Prime 2 and 3 in the build up to it, I think it could do really well. And give us Zero Mission and Samus Returns for Switch and just go all in on Metroid this year. And then Metroid 6 for Switch 2 in either 2025 or 2026 would be in a great position as well.
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My desire to play Prime 4 is likely clouding my judgment, but I think a big lead up to its release later this year would be amazing for the series.
 
space_dragon said:
I know I'd be there day one for Switch 2 with Prime 4 as a cross-gen title!
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I'd want to be, but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to justify it just yet. But that's circumstance aside from whatever does get announced for it.
space_dragon said:
I honestly wasn't aware of that info about Metroid and hardware. That's pretty cool to think about, actually!
Click to expand...
I hadn't seen anything before now to indicate the validity of it being an actual thing, though it always made sense to me as a hypothetical. It's just one more example, though, of why pure sales numbers don't always tell the whole story.
 
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Aurc said:
There was indeed Metroid fatigue at the time, but the Wii being underpowered relative to the PS3 and 360 was also a contributing factor. In an interview with KIWI TALKZ, Jack Mathews (lead technical engineer on the Prime trilogy) mentioned being disappointed with the Wii's lack of a notable power leap over the GameCube, and that staying with Nintendo made him feel creatively boxed in, with others at Retro feeling similarly. He cites it as one of the reasons he left the studio shortly after Prime 3's completion. It's now many years later, and Retro unfortunately finds themselves in a similar spot (the Switch is certainly no powerhouse), so I sympathize. Always amazing what they're able to achieve in spite of weak hardware, though.
Click to expand...
However, the situation is not at all similar, in my opinion. When Retro was working on Prime 3, they had already worked relentlessly on Prime 1 and 2 without any real interruption, and they're being asked to start all over again on hardware that doesn't offer anything better, but on top of that adds the constraint of motion gaming. To be absolutely fed up after finishing Prime 3 is perfectly logical.

On the other hand, I don't see why the people who currently work at Retro would feel the same way, as the situation is diametrically opposed:

- There's no franchise fatigue since Metroid Prime 3 was released almost 17 years ago

- There's been a very strong turn-over of the Retro teams, with a lot of people whose first Metroid development will be here, and who wanted to be here to do exactly what they're doing.

- As a studio, Retro's last unreleased game was 10 years ago. Ensuring that Prime 4, the first episode of the saga in HD, is the greatest game possible feels like an extremely exciting challenge and an unhoped-for come-back, on hardware that is exceptionally appreciated by the industry and gamers.

And I'd add to all that that even if Prime 4 wasn't cross-gen, new hardware will be arriving which will bring a huge generational leap compared to the hardware they're working on now, so they won't be reliving either what they experienced by making a direct sequel on the Gamecube, or what they experienced by being forced to work on hardware very similar to the Gamecube, which was the Wii.

Even if it were just a matter of noting, despite all these favourable and exciting elements for the people of Retro, that the Switch is, as you say, "certainly no powerhouse", then we might as well rely on the many fascinating interviews with KIWI TALKZ to remind us that meeting technical challenges, pushing back the limits of hardware, making the most of the technical capabilities of a console, constantly inventing innovations to produce miracles is certainly very difficult, but also, according to what some of them say about their work on the Prime games, very gratifying and rewarding for developers.
 
boodream said:
However, the situation is not at all similar, in my opinion. When Retro was working on Prime 3, they had already worked relentlessly on Prime 1 and 2 without any real interruption, and they're being asked to start all over again on hardware that doesn't offer anything better, but on top of that adds the constraint of motion gaming. To be absolutely fed up after finishing Prime 3 is perfectly logical.

On the other hand, I don't see why the people who currently work at Retro would feel the same way, as the situation is diametrically opposed:

- There's no franchise fatigue since Metroid Prime 3 was released almost 17 years ago

- There's been a very strong turn-over of the Retro teams, with a lot of people whose first Metroid development will be here, and who wanted to be here to do exactly what they're doing.

- As a studio, Retro's last unreleased game was 10 years ago. Ensuring that Prime 4, the first episode of the saga in HD, is the greatest game possible feels like an extremely exciting challenge and an unhoped-for come-back, on hardware that is exceptionally appreciated by the industry and gamers.

And I'd add to all that that even if Prime 4 wasn't cross-gen, new hardware will be arriving which will bring a huge generational leap compared to the hardware they're working on now, so they won't be reliving either what they experienced by making a direct sequel on the Gamecube, or what they experienced by being forced to work on hardware very similar to the Gamecube, which was the Wii.

Even if it were just a matter of noting, despite all these favourable and exciting elements for the people of Retro, that the Switch is, as you say, "certainly no powerhouse", then we might as well rely on the many fascinating interviews with KIWI TALKZ to remind us that meeting technical challenges, pushing back the limits of hardware, making the most of the technical capabilities of a console, constantly inventing innovations to produce miracles is certainly very difficult, but also, according to what some of them say about their work on the Prime games, very gratifying and rewarding for developers.
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This right here.

This is the company who used lines of code as a static effect because adding the static texture would have used up too much memory. Getting the most out of a console is their bread and butter.
Regardless of most of the original devs leaving, I would highly doubt that ethos left with them.

MP4 will look like a 2witch game whether the successor is in our hands or not and Retro's next game, Prime 5 or otherwise, will look like a Switch 3 game.
 
Luggage said:
I wonder if a lot of the staff at Retro are just sick of Metroid now. Especially if Prime 4 isn't coming until 2025. If I remember correctly, many of the original employees got franchise fatigue after Prime 2.
Click to expand...
And to think that so many people were clowning on them for making Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze their Wii U project. Almost makes me wish Prime 4 got outright cancelled and a third Retro-developed DK took its place instead.
 
Luggage said:
I wonder if a lot of the staff at Retro are just sick of Metroid now. Especially if Prime 4 isn't coming until 2025. If I remember correctly, many of the original employees got franchise fatigue after Prime 2.
Click to expand...

There are like 25 people at Retro that worked on the Prime series, and Retro are like 150+ now. I'm sure the vast majority are thrilled to be working on Metroid, and it seems long enough that the Retro veterans are happy to go back to it after such a long time!
 
I've been having some brainstorms lately so I'll just throw them here:

Back in 2021 when the rumor about Metroid Prime Remastered spread out, Emily said that Prime 4 was aiming for a 2023 release. Metroid Prime Remastered was speculated/informed to be late 2022, 20th Anniversary of the original. With it being shadow dropped in February, I think it probably was meant for late 2022 at some point.

But let's take a broader look at what the overall plan for Nintendo was back then:

  • The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom was supposed to be a 2022 game. So the 2023 release schedule was meant to be rather different from the one we got. Super Mario Bros. Movie was supposed to come holiday 2022 back then too;
  • maybe at some point(as in when Switch released until like 2020) Switch 2 was expected to release holiday 2023? Alongside 3D Mario and MP4?
  • back at 2021, with Zelda aiming for 2022, was Super Mario Bros. Wonder supposed to be the big spring title?
  • was Switch 2 already aiming for 2024(but Q1) back then and Metroid Prime 4 was gonna be the tentpole holiday 2023 release?

Roughly what I think was the plan by 2021:
  • 2022 would have Tears of the Kingdom;
  • early 2023 would have Super Mario Bros. Wonder, late 2023 would have Metroid Prime 4;
  • Switch 2 would come in early 2024 alongside 3D Mario.

Then the plan by late 2022/2023:
  • early 2023 would have Tears of the Kingdom, late 2023 would have Super Mario Bros. Wonder;
  • late 2024 would have Switch 2, 3D Mario and Metroid Prime 4

Plan after Switch 2 delay:
  • late 2024 will have Pokémon remakes/Legends, Mario Party, Donkey Kong;
  • Metroid Prime 4 when?????
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
but prime 2 remastered and possibly 3 I feel like a near guarantee
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didnt Jeff Grubb on his podcast, he stated Nintendo is preparing a big marketing campaing for Metroid in may? a big marketing campaing for Metroid, begining with Metroid Prime 2/3 remastered this year and Metroid Prime 4 as a launch window game for Switch sucessor, i could see this happening
 
Giancarlo said:
didnt Jeff Grubb on his podcast, he stated Nintendo is preparing a big marketing campaing for Metroid in may? a big marketing campaing for Metroid, begining with Metroid Prime 2/3 remastered this year and Metroid Prime 4 as a launch window game for Switch sucessor, i could see this happening
Click to expand...
He also said it was an old rumor and had heard nothing more since
 
One thing for sure, you have to Talk about Prime 4, you have to confirm is existence

You cannot stay silent on it at the death of the switch
 
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Supreme Overlord said:
[Note: I couldn't tell you how much this podcast might know about such matters, but the reasoning seems to track.]
Click to expand...
The person who raised the point on the podcast was Andy Robinson, who has been a really solid and reliable source on Nintendo stuff in the past, having worked around the industry as well as as a journalist for years.
 
Danny said:
Anyone else thinking Prime 2 and 3 will come this year to Switch and then next year Prime 4 will come out to Switch 1 and 2?
Click to expand...
Personally I'm guessing that Prime 2 and 3 are getting the MPR treatment, and will release as individual calendar fillers in the years after MP4. With MP4 being a Switch 2/crossgen release next year. That will help keep the franchise afloat in between MP4, Metroid 6, and future new entries.

I'm really doubtful of them releasing multiple Metroid games within less than a year of each other.
 
Instro said:
Personally I'm guessing that Prime 2 and 3 are getting the MPR treatment, and will release as individual calendar fillers in the years after MP4. With MP4 being a Switch 2/crossgen release next year. That will help keep the franchise afloat in between MP4, Metroid 6, and future new entries.

I'm really doubtful of them releasing multiple Metroid games within less than a year of each other.
Click to expand...

Would Nintendo spend 2+ years each on games that weren't very popular (Prime 2 and 3).

These would be really expensive remakes as they don't really share assets with each other or Prime 1.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Would Nintendo spend 2+ years each on games that weren't very popular (Prime 2 and 3).

These would be really expensive remakes as they don't really share assets with each other or Prime 1.
Click to expand...
Well don't forget that the pretty detailed run down from Belmont was that Nintendo approved that level of effort for the entire trilogy until MP4 fell apart at Bamco and Retro had to take over. If that was already the plan, it seems reasonable to think that they will just continue down that path since they'd already sequestered part of the Retro and several support studios to make MPR.

Given the efforts Nintendo recently put towards things like Advance Wars, and Another Code, which are even less popular, it seems like they are willing to take on lower profit/revenue projects like this. It's not like Mario vs Donkey Kong or TTYD are significantly more popular either.
 
Instro said:
Well don't forget that the pretty detailed run down from Belmont was that Nintendo approved that level of effort for the entire trilogy until MP4 fell apart at Bamco and Retro had to take over. If that was already the plan, it seems reasonable to think that they will just continue down that path since they'd already sequestered part of the Retro and several support studios to make MPR.

Given the efforts Nintendo recently put towards things like Advance Wars, and Another Code, which are even less popular, it seems like they are willing to take on lower profit/revenue projects like this.
Click to expand...

Those are way lower budget than Prime 2 or 3 would be and it's not like any of these have really been... successful at all.

I'm also pretty doubtful Nintendo approved a full remake of Prime 1-3 from Retro. That probably would have been a full 5-6 year project from their most expensive dev team. Crash 1-3 and Spyro 1-3 could be quickly remade because they shared tons of assets, Prime 1-3 do not at all.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Would Nintendo spend 2+ years each on games that weren't very popular (Prime 2 and 3).

These would be really expensive remakes as they don't really share assets with each other or Prime 1.
Click to expand...
Can we guess what the strategy was with remastering Metroid Prime 1? I thought the plan was that they wanted to put the whole trilogy on Switch all before the release of Prime 4, if all these games are meant to be connected.
 
Danny said:
Can we guess what the strategy was with remastering Metroid Prime 1? I thought the plan was that they wanted to put the whole trilogy on Switch all before the release of Prime 4, if all these games are meant to be connected.
Click to expand...

My guess is that most programmers and artists had nothing to do when Retro started Prime 4 and they needed something to do while Retro did pre-production and mass hiring and Nintendo decided to have them work on a Prime remake instead of doing nothing.

Prime 1-3 have no plot threads that can or would connect to any future game. Federation Force is the only possibly plot relevant game and it will never be remade.

Calling it Prime 4 would by itself be very weird as there's nothing to continue from Prime 3 except a tease for... Federation Force and its very few plot threads.
 
Good stuff.

Push Metroid Prime 4 alongside this year's Pokemon game(s), among others, and it makes a very good case that the Switch's final holiday could be more than fine.
 
I wonder if Nintendo could try releasing it this year on Switch 1 and then will offer a free upgrade/digital copy for Switch 2 if your account recognizes owning the Switch 1 version.

Backwards compatibility probably would negate that, but I’m jumping through as many hoops as possible to play this game asap.

If anything, we should at least SEE the game this year. Right?
 
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On today's Game Mess Morning (timestamp) going over the Nintendo Direct, Jeff Grubb said that he heard about the Epic Mickey remake earlier and the same source told him that Metroid Prime 4 would be getting a CGI trailer sometime this Summer. Thought that was interesting, I'm starting to think this game is going to really be the last push for the Switch and not cross-gen.
 
ceres15 said:
On today's Game Mess Morning (timestamp) going over the Nintendo Direct, Jeff Grubb said that he heard about the Epic Mickey remake earlier and the same source told him that Metroid Prime 4 would be getting a CGI trailer sometime this Summer. Thought that was interesting, I'm starting to think this game is going to really be the last push for the Switch and not cross-gen.
Click to expand...
CGI trailer?? 🥲
 
ceres15 said:
On today's Game Mess Morning (timestamp) going over the Nintendo Direct, Jeff Grubb said that he heard about the Epic Mickey remake earlier and the same source told him that Metroid Prime 4 would be getting a CGI trailer sometime this Summer. Thought that was interesting, I'm starting to think this game is going to really be the last push for the Switch and not cross-gen.
Click to expand...

I would hope that the game would be revealed with gameplay after over 5.5 years of total silence.
 
I know Ninty always does their own thing but I will be extremely disappointed if they don't adopt the upgrade system from Sony and MS. I replayed so many games on PS5 because of it.
And it would be the best option for MP4, all the folks who know Retro will make an immaculate game regardless of hardware can play it this year and it'll get a sales boost when 2witch comes out for all the folks who refuse to play it on Switch and I'll have an excuse to replay it even more than I already will be.

Also producing two cartridges for every game available on both is a waste of money when they can just put out a next gen patch (and update box art to reflect this down the line "enhanced on 2witch" etc)
 
Aurc said:
There was indeed Metroid fatigue at the time, but the Wii being underpowered relative to the PS3 and 360 was also a contributing factor. In an interview with KIWI TALKZ, Jack Mathews (lead technical engineer on the Prime trilogy) mentioned being disappointed with the Wii's lack of a notable power leap over the GameCube, and that staying with Nintendo made him feel creatively boxed in, with others at Retro feeling similarly....
Click to expand...
This is a bit strange to me, as it's usually said that constraints and limits boost creativity. I think that more powerful hardware actually does the opposite: You only need to look at the flagship titles of the big studios and they're almost exclusively 3rd person action games made with a mold. On the other hand look at what Nintendo has been doing in their more limited hardware since forever: You can see stuff ranging from Mario Galaxy to the crazyness that TotK brought with Ultrahand and the god-tier physics engine running on a handheld, in a vast open world. We've seen nothing come close in PS5 or XBox. And if we look at indies, the most original and inventive games are at most graphically average (in terms of "power", but that's not the only way to make a good-looking game). Jumping from a Nintendo studio to another big company to make AAA that squeeze the last drop of power from the hardware is the worst thing you can do if you're looking to do more "creative" games, IMHO.
 
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