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Discussion Happy Pride Month, Fami! 🏳️‍🌈 🏳️‍⚧️

totofogo

totofogo

thinkin bt pkmn 4
Pronouns
he/him 🏳️‍🌈
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The title speaks for itself, happy Pride Month!

I figured we could use a space to both be a little analytical of Nintendo’s relationship with LGBTQIA+ themes in their games, and celebrate those games that do embrace them and might be worth giving some extra attention and love to this month.

So fami, what’s your answer to either or both of the following? Feel free to toss further questions into the ring and I’ll update OP to include ‘em - this is a shared space!

  1. How would you like to see Nintendo better represent / support the LGBTQIA+ community in their line-up?
  2. What are some games that well embrace LGBTQIA+ themes that are worth playing this month?
 
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Starting off with number 2…

I’d like to finally dive into one of two long-awaited games their month… either
  • Spiritfarer, which apparently touches on many analogies to the LGBTQ+ community and features some queer characters. I have it on Game Pass but will probably grab on Switch too if I enjoy because it seems like a cozy handheld game.
  • Life Is Strange: True Colors, which has a bisexual lead. Loved the original game, have been waiting to dive into this one at long last! The Switch port looks great, but I got it free on Game Pass.
 
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I recommend Night in the Woods. It touches on Mental Health and there are LGBTQIA+ characters (but thankfully, their identity is not the reason of their problems, which is good to see).

About Nintendo: we see a little representation in Fire Emblem, but it’s still very far from ideal because it’s more like “some characters are bi for you”. We also see Nintendo being more flexible in letting their fans express themselves with main characters in franchises like Animal Crossing, Splatoon, or their Miis/Sportsmates.

But there’s a lot they could be doing. Not only the existence of LGBTQIA+ characters, but also stories about them (sidequests in Fire Emblem or Zelda could be a start). Show more support for their LGBTQIA+ employees (not only full-time, contractors too), and no need to be hush-hush about it with corporate e-mails or answers to journalists in news: I don’t remember them acknowledging us on their main social media channels (maybe they had one gay couple in an YouTube ad?). They need to be more vocal about it, and we know why they’re not: because they try to be a “family-friendly” company, which means conservative.

I’m not very good at articulating things, but I feel they’re pretty far behind in representation compared to most of the big software companies. I hope they improve on it, and I don’t have hard data, but I’m pretty sure the proportion of LGBTQIA+ fans they have is higher than Sony, Microsoft, EA, Activision… so they should be better for us.
 
Heruderu said:
About Nintendo: we see a little representation in Fire Emblem, but it’s still very far from ideal because it’s more like “some characters are bi for you”. We also see Nintendo being more flexible in letting their fans express themselves with main characters in franchises like Animal Crossing, Splatoon, or their Miis/Sportsmates.
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I’m also finally hoping to dive into FE: TH a bit this month and almost listed it as one of my titles here but didn’t feel it was worth the mention from what I’ve heard about it. Would you say the queer relationships are treated any differently from straight ones in the game? Or is the issue more just that the queer options are exclusively bi characters making all options either bi or straight?
 
The "asexuals in video games" section of the Wikipedia page on asexuals in media having only two games mentioned is sad. The Outer Worlds and Danganronpa 3. Considering people think we don't exist, I suppose two games is pretty good!
 
This video essay has a thorough look on Nintendo's queer themes throughout the years. TLDW: It's certainly not a spotless record but there is some positive stuff albeit very little and understated.



Overall more is always better and there's plenty of room for more. What I'd like to see is more upfront rep in new series' and more inclusion on old ones. You don't have to turn, reveal, discover queerness in the older stuff Mario can go to a neighboring kingdom and have characters there be out in who they are their relationships. Like you can have Mario save a wedding between two princesses/princes etc. Queer stuff is a part of the world it's extraordinary and ordinary and the more representation the better.
 
As for question 1, admittedly, I'd have to do some thinking to figure out what NIntendo could do better, because well: a.) there's a lot, b.) I've been at the "you need to go indie for LGBTQIA+ rep" acceptance stage for a long time now, and c.) I'm a very tired queer in year 2022 of our lord arcues please understand. Above all else, I'd want to see Nintendo hire more LGBTQIA+ folks, make LGBTQIA+ staff feel comfortable being themselves in at their company, and give LGBTQIA+ folks leadership positions--the same I'd ask of any company. While I could bring up specific grievances, like Three House's disappointed handling of queer themes (fantastic article btw) or how certain characters, like Breath of the Wild's Vilia, show a lack of mindfulness for LGBTQIA+ folks, part of me feels that focusing too much on who's on the screen while neglecting who's behind the screen only leads to Monkey Paw-esque representation. And moreover, I don't actually know where Nintendo stands presently. Have they hired LGBTQIA+ staff? Do they feel comfortable there? Have they been given leadership positions? I just don't know.
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As for question two, while it's an 18+ game on Steam (but just M on Switch), Hashihime of the Old Book town has definitely left an impression on me. Basically, imagine Steins;Gate-esque thriller--complete with timeloop travel and all--meeting a murder mystery with a slowburn gay romance burning the back. It's a kinetic visual novel, so if just reading ain't your thing, probably best to pass. And the art is just. Great. It's very great. Mind, since it's a BL, being a thriller x romance takes priority over authentically capturing the 1920s LGBT experience, so make of that as you will. The developer, ADELTA, had their recent effort, Uuultra C localized; I haven't read it yet, but it's probably worth checking out too.
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Thirdly, these are just some helpful that aren't related to your question per se but about queerness and gaming broadly, so, you know, figured I'd post them.

Lastly, despite being a year-old post, I find this interview just generally very good information about gaming broadly: https://blerdyotome.com/2021/06/23/...y-game-devs-on-lgbtq-representation-in-games/

And recommendations, again, from 2021: https://blerdyotome.com/2021/06/03/pride-month-2021-loads-more-lgbtq-positive-visual-novels/

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As for my own gaming this Pride, I'll be playing Animal Crossing and Pirate Warriors 3 for the time being. I'm basically stuck on Switch because me and the boyfriend are about to move halfway across the country to where my parents live, and I won't have a dedicated place for TV there so rip PS4 games for now. Might start up Bustafellows if I need a husbando fix, but that is very much a straight (i.e. otome) game. Still prettyboys though.
 
totofogo said:
I’m also finally hoping to dive into FE: TH a bit this month and almost listed it as one of my titles here but didn’t feel it was worth the mention from what I’ve heard about it. Would you say the queer relationships are treated any differently from straight ones in the game? Or is the issue more just that the queer options are exclusively bi characters making all options either bi or straight?
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You have 3 bisexual women and 3 bisexual man (one of then retroactively turned bi in a free update and another is from the paid DLC). The other characters are all straight. And I believe only one of the bisexual characters shows interest in people of the same gender that are not you, the protagonist.

The main problem was that at launch, there was only one male option, and a character that could very easily be an option (Claude) was straight.

And romantic relationship comes very endgame so be they straight or queer, they’re treated the same by the game.

EDIT: I’m not sure if the male character that was added as a queer option in a free update was straight before the update or just wasn’t an option.
 
I did a write up on some examples of LGBT rep in Nintendo games awhile back that i’d like to revisit and revise a little bit; but mostly want to repost because it didn’t get many eyes I think. Here goes!

Starting with sexualities; Fire Emblem has been slowly getting there with queer relationships. Most notable pre-Fates is Ike, who is bi (if not gay); his relationship with Soren is made clear in multiple lines of dialogue and material outside of their games. Three Houses has a few queer relationship outcomes, not exclusive to Byleth either; though most of the non-Byleth relationships are only implied, Petra and Dorothea being a notably explicit exception.

I don't think there's any way to read certain dialogue in Splatoon 2, especially during the wrap-up of the final Splatfest, that doesn't imply Pearl and Marina are in a closer relationship than simply being an idol duo. The same can apply for C.J. and Flick in New Horizons; with the 2.0 update only stoking the flames with the interactions they and their parents can have in The Roost.

We have two trans women in the Mario series with Birdo and Vivian. Birdo’s portrayal hasn't been particularly great over the years, with some intentional misgendering in older manuals and even newer UK English localisations of games like Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party. Vivian meanwhile is a mixed bag mostly dependent on the version; the English localization erases her trans identity entirely, while the original Japanese text and some EU localizations depicts her story as a trans woman rejected by her sisters but ultimately accepted in the end. Some of the dialogue surrounding this like Goombella’s tattle for Vivian is iffy but I mostly see her as positive rep. Gracie from Animal Crossing is a mix of those two cases; the Japanese versions treat it like "she is actually a he! surprise!" trope, while the English localisation eliminates this aspect of the character entirely.

I mentioned FE Fates earlier, and the Japanese version of that game treats an explictly lesbian character terribly (English localisation tried to alter text to make it not as terrible, but still not great). Three Houses is far from perfect too; one of Female Byleth's queer options is the '1,000 years old but looks like a kid' trope, and Male Byleth is cheated out of half of his S Rank supports with "they lived together but definitely weren't gay" endings. There was a massive imbalance between MM and FF relationships at launch too, leaning towards the latter, but post-launch updates and DLC tried to rectify this a little bit with Jeritza and Yuri.

What has been great, though, are the character creators for series like Animal Crossing, Splatoon and Pokemon recontextualising outside of Japan to remove reference to gender (though Legends Arceus has disappointingly gone back to your trainer being referred to with gendered pronouns). Nintendo still have a long way to go in this regard, so I can only hope that the more recent examples here are a sign of progress. They promised back in 2014 that if a new Tomodachi title was made it would include queer relationships, and Miitopia somewhat provides this (same-sex relationships can happen but there’s no marriage mechanic in the game so it isn’t as emphasized) so we'll just have to see if they stay true to that.
 
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MondoMega said:
They promised back in 2014 that if a new Tomodachi title was made it would include queer relationships, and Miitopia somewhat provides this (same-sex relationships can happen but there’s no marriage mechanic in the game so it isn’t as emphasized) so we'll just have to see if they stay true to that.
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I was gonna reply to this and mention Miitopia but when I refreshed the page I saw you had already beaten me to it with your edit! lol

Also, fun fact—I’m actually the person who did the #Miiquality video and social media campaign that got the issue picked up by the media and snowballed from there, lol.
 
Tye said:
I was gonna reply to this and mention Miitopia but when I refreshed the page I saw you had already beaten me to it with your edit! lol

Also, fun fact—I’m actually the person who did the #Miiquality video and social media campaign that got the issue picked up by the media and snowballed from there, lol.
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Yeah, I meant to edit it in from the original post but pressed send too early! Really rushed to type it up quick, lol.
 
Outside of Smash Nintendo has done better in recent years when it comes to binary gender and non-white representation, but they still have a very long way to go when it comes to anything outside of the heteronormative.

Maybe we'll see some better and more pronounced queer representation in Splatoon 3.
 
I'm not a huge fan of Gerudo Link being upheld as some sort of win for queer representation when the portrayal of Gerudo and their culture in the Zelda series is very racist and orientalist, but maybe that's better for another topic.

Anyway, I don't expect Nintendo to do much in this field in the near future until social standards change in general.
 
I've always felt that alphys and undyne's relationship in Undertale feels very heartwarming and greatly written. The game itself feels like a reminder of how we must overcome differences and realize that although we are different on the surface, our hearts beat as one, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a very poignant message.
 
gear.xbox.com

Xbox Pride Shop

Shop for Xbox merchandise on the Xbox Gear Shop and gear up with your favorite Xbox franchises like Halo, Gears of War, Age of Empires, Grounded and more!
gear.xbox.com gear.xbox.com

78 different pride merch items on the Xbox store, plus a controller. Even cooler, they all represent different divisions and subsidaries of Microsoft so you can get one to flex your favorite series/devs.

Unfortunately it doesn’t look like any direct profits for these are being donated, but rather “Microsoft is donating a total of $170,000 to LGBTQIA+ nonprofits” which is… something, but they just spent 70 billion on Activision so lol

Imagine a world where we have merch (let alone pride merch) for the different EPD divisions and subsidaries…
 
Happy pride month to my fellow queer Fami!

When it comes to the first question, "How would you like to see Nintendo better represent / support the LGBTQIA+ community in their line-up," how about...well, actually doing it? Nintendo's queer representation is a drop in the bucket. Fire Emblem is the only Nintendo franchise with explicit queer relationships. We got three trans characters, one of whom is a one-off character, another of whom is an extremely minor NPC buried deep behind optional content, and the last who is a franchise mainstay but who has a very mixed history and who is currently misgendered in UK localizations for some baffling reason. To put it simply, there is a long way to go here. Even just having more would be a good start. Take the hints at CJ/Flick and Pearl/Marina and make them canon couples beyond just the suggestions! Do good on that Tomodachi promise and make the next game have queer relationships! Continue de-gendering the custom characters across the different IPs! There's good steps that can be taken. This isn't to say that supporting queer developers shouldn't be a bigger priority, as the people making the games are just as important as their work, but hey, big business, my expectations are low.

As for queer games, go play Hades, the game that makes my bi heart soar, both for its character designs and for how it handles the potential relationships involving its main character, Zagreus. And if we're going for queer themes, go play Celeste, a touching game about working with mental illness that inadvertently trans-allegoried so hard that it helped director and designer Maddy Thorson work through her own gender identity. And that's on top of it being one of the best precision platformers out there.
 
For question 1, there's all sorts of things Nintendo could do. The sky's the limit! Continue adding queer characters to games like Fire Emblem, and next time allow more MLM romance; the queer women of Three Houses were treated well, but male characters ended up with less options. Add some trans characters too while we're at it; Fates brought in a GNC character with Forrest, which was a nice first step! Let's see them take that further. Asides from FE, you could do similar things for franchises like Xenoblade. There's also stuff like Tomodachi Life, where allowing any character to romance one another regardless of gender is an obvious solution.

For games that focus less on the romance side of things, there's still plenty that can be done! No reason why a playable girl in a Mario game can't rescue a princess and get a kiss... in fact, you could already do that by playing as Toadette in NSMBU! No reason why you couldn't visit a kingdom in a Zelda game ruled by two queens. No reason you shouldn't be able to change your character's name in Animal Crossing at any point in time; a little thing that would be a big deal to trans people still in the process of coming out. While we're at it, why not do the same for Pokemon? That shouldn't be very difficult. Speaking of Pokemon, that seems like another place where you could easily just add trans characters. We already got one with the lady who used to be a black belt!

There's tons of tons of ways Nintendo could make their games more LGBT friendly, and I hope that they do!

For question 2, there's lots of great LGBT games to play! I'd highly recommend everyone play:

Celeste, a great platformer with a transgender protagonist!
Get in the Car, Loser!, a road trip RPG by Christine Love, with an almost entirely queer cast!
A Year of Springs, a set of three visual novels. A transgender woman is the main character of one, and she appears in the others.
VA-11 HALL-A, a cyberpunk bartending game with a bisexual main character, and a few other queer characters too!

There's also one of my most anticipated games; the lesbian visual novel, "I Became Gay from Translating My New Roommate's Short Story", which has a demo out now. Really excited to read that one!
 
Wanna give a special shout-out to Mercedes from FE: Three Houses being bisexual because the super religious character is hardly ever the LGBT+ one in an RPG. I was pleasantly surprised to see the character who puts emphasis on faith and religious charity work can romance ladies.

b7f30a8abd55e2921740f9f5d0047609d29dc754.jpg

(credit)
 
What can Nintendo do? A lot. What will they do? Take baby steps that won't harm their profit margins. This is rainbow capitalism, where queer rep is a money-making tool just like everything else. You're probably better off looking to indies to blaze the trail, and to working towards greater societal change for the moneyhounds to jump on board.

As for games - Celeste is just a delight. What's really beautiful about is it that is was essentially a trans journey for Maddy Thorson as much as for her trans protagonist, Madeleine. And it has assist modes if the (admittedly sometimes quite tricky) platforming gives you trouble. But the game is open-ended enough in its general theme of facing and finding yourself that I'm sure even cis people can find much to relate to.
 
MondoMega said:
How could I forget to mention Kirby being non-binary in Japan in my above post? I’ll make up for that with this adorable fanart.

Click to expand...

How could I forget my beautiful child Kirby??? I really appreciate how the Japanese depiction of the Kirby franchise is way less gendered than the international version.
 
I hope the next FE entry has more same sex options. I ended up just making a female Byleth for 3 play through so I could marry the guys I wanted to.
But anyway. Happy Pride! 🏳️‍🌈🥳
 
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Two gay updates from me!

First a quote from general…

totofogo said:
Spiritfarer is 67% off too! I have it on game pass and haven’t played yet, but it seems like a handheld experience and a game I’ll want to keep around in case it leaves GP any time soon. I’ll give the Switch demo a whirl, it’s on my must play list for pride anyhow.
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…and second, I got a book from a local bookstore today called Video Games Have Always Been Queer that I’m excited to dive into!

nyupress.org

Video Games Have Always Been Queer

Argues for the queer potential of video gamesWhile popular discussions about queerness in video games often focus on big-name, mainstream games that feature ...
nyupress.org nyupress.org
 
Loving the logo change. Happy Pride, all. I'm really glad to see this thread and I'm enjoying learning about different games that embrace queerness. I am as plain Jim as it gets but I'm sending you all good vibes.
 
Alright I’ve started to make good on my promise to play Spiritfarer this month! Sure won’t be beating it but I want to get deep into it

totofogo said:
Any Spiritfarer fans out there? The demo has me smitten and it’s on sale for $9 on the eshop

do i play at 900p on Switch with option for handheld or enjoy 4K for free on my Xbox with gamepass…

im leaning towards the former with the kind of game it is tbh, nice to take handheld. 30fps vs 60fps is the real killer.
Click to expand...
 
Celeste, Hades and Stardew Valley have LGBTQ+ themes/representation/options and they are some of the best games I've played in the last decade!

And I'm happy this thread reminded me I need to play Spiritfarer
 
Happy pride month specifcally to our favourite Splatoon couple, back and still together in Splatoon 3. Happy for them!

 
I went to my City's pride parade over the weekend and it was cool to see local developers from a company that handles many a Switch port marching!
 
Well, i'm 15 days late but i thought i'd try and revive this thread :)

Happy pride month 2023, Fami!
 
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  1. How would you like to see Nintendo better represent / support the LGBTQIA+ community in their line-up?
  2. What are some games that well embrace LGBTQIA+ themes that are worth playing this month?

1. I want a nonbinary Animal Crossing character creation option and everything in between, created with consultation from respective communities- they have enough cash to make this proper now. I want Link in every gender flavor possible, with canon faces like Sheps in Mass Effect. I want them all to be able to send love notes to whomever they want during events mimicking Valentines Day.

2. Nothing is perfect, but even considering the source material I loved the secret relationship options in Hades and thought it was clever and fun compared to 99% of what I've found in game romance fare.

BombChorizo said:
Celeste, Hades and Stardew Valley have LGBTQ+ themes/representation/options and they are some of the best games I've played in the last decade!
Click to expand...
iu
 
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I was in Japan for work a few years ago and was amazed to realise how legitimately big Splatoon is as a franchise. But when I spoke to someone about it, they mentioned how it had become a huge beacon for young LGBTQ+ folk in Japan. The series is a kinda queer cultural phenomenon, and something about the genderless characters and aesthetics was really speaking to a community that didn’t get much outright representation in Japan. Made the whole series feel so much more special to me since.
 
ammonite said:
I was in Japan for work a few years ago and was amazed to realise how legitimately big Splatoon is as a franchise. But when I spoke to someone about it, they mentioned how it had become a huge beacon for young LGBTQ+ folk in Japan. The series is a kinda queer cultural phenomenon, and something about the genderless characters and aesthetics was really speaking to a community that didn’t get much outright representation in Japan. Made the whole series feel so much more special to me since.
Click to expand...
Wow, thats pretty cool!

On the topic of pride...Thoughts on this?
 
Happy pride! I'm not the best with my thoughts here, so sorry if this comes out weird.

Id love Toad's ambiguous gender to be more explicit in the future, if the idea is that they choose their own identities, id really love to see that emphasized than just the hints Miyamoto gave.

I don't know how id want that done, but its something id like to see. Especially in the RPGs which could have the potential for more fleshed out Toad roles even in the current restrictions.
 
Happy Pride!

Now would have been a good time to come out, but eh. I started Hormone Blockers though, so that's good enough for me d:
 
Personally, I would enjoy gay characters in games like FE and Xenoblade. Which is already a thing for FE but it needs hotter ones lol. Not really looking for gay characters in other Nintendo series. I think Nintendo is doing an all right job.
 
There's always more for me to learn about queer representation, but anecdotal, as far as Nintendo goes, I'm glad the Zelda series has moved past flamboyant gay clowns (TP, SS) to people of different gender expressions in Totk (and treating them matter-of-factly). Not that there's anything wrong with being a flamboyant gay clown, but when that's the extent of your queer representation, it raises an eyebrow (or both)
 
One thing I'd like Nintendo to do is to let me enter my own pronouns in games like Pokemon and Animal Crossing. As a transgender woman, I don't really feel represented by them removing pronouns altogether, it feels more like erasure, like they're trying to kill as many birds as possible with one stone, and I just don't like it.

Other than that I think it'd be cool to see like a gay king and king in a new kingdom in Mario or something. I'm not too keen on the ideas of changing characters wholesale, like the idea of changing Link (I'm especially against Link being changed in fact.) I'd rather they just create new characters like the Sages and champions or new princess in Mario or something. Zelda just needs to start experimenting with multiples different playable characters.
 
The only unambiguously bisexual game character I even knew of before this thread is Olivier in Trails in the Sky, who, like a lot of that game's writing ideas, should have been horrible but was miraculously not. It's a weirdly interesting game from a LGBT perspective, because the whole thing feels like it's doing constant commentary on gender roles, and I don't know how much of this was actually trying to say something or just a run-on consequence of deciding to switch the roles of Estelle and Joshua. I've never played the second part, so I wonder if it continues or ever arrives at a point with that.

Anyway, it'd be nice to have more bisexual characters that aren't limited to Schrodinger's dating choices, I guess.
 
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