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Discussion Gameindustrybiz's Dring on Xbox:Xbox sales flatlining in Europe, majority of Xbox games coming to PS5 at some point, MS putting less focus on Gamepass

Exactly. How much is Gamepass? £150 a year or something like that? I get that that might appeal to very heavy users who otherwise play the latest games at launch every month and spend hundreds a year on video games. But for me, the idea of just renting a vast library of stuff I won’t play at such a high price makes no sense. I play half a dozen games a year, am happy to wait and buy them at steep discounts outside of 1 or 2 that are invariably rpgs. I’d rather just pick up the handful I actually want and sell them on afterwards if I’m just going to rent them.

Game Pass Core (which you need for online functionality, formerly know as Xbox Live Gold) is $10/month or $60/year.

Game Pass Ultimate (including all of Game Pass and online play) is $17/month. There's no discount for buying a full year ($204), but there is the well known "exploit" of buying three years of Core ($180) and then upgrading to Ultimate at a 3:2 rate (thereby getting 24 months for $180+$17).

So GPU doesn't wind up costing much more than base online functionality ($31 more per year).
 
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Because Sony isn't in a much better situation either, tons of layoffs, canceled projects, identity crisis, they increased price of ps plus to an amount me and many don't tolerate, they increased console price instead of cutting it or keeping it stable, they started the 80 euro games trend and kinda feel creatively bankrupt. The console will have a huge boost with GTA 6 just because for some reason Rockstar is often perceived to go along with it so that's where most Gamers™ will play it but outside that it's looking a pretty dull generation for them as well.

They're in a much better position game wise, but it's true that their market is probably really not growing and may actually be contracting.

I think they are losing customers to PC, I'll be in that boat soon too, not planning to buy a PS5 Pro or PS6. Will be on PC, I can wait a year, even two years for Playstation games to show up on PC, not going to die if I can't play the latest God of War and Ratchet & Clank immediately.
 
It is interesting that despite XBox weakness, the PS5 don't rise to new highs, quite the opposite. PS5 sales are below Sonys expectations.

The question is if some player abandoned XBox and Playstation completely and went to other places like PC, Switch or even Quest.

People on forums like these often say that Switch is no competitor for XBox and PlayStation because of power and third party games, but this argument is obviously naive. Switch makes it possible to play most new games, even has some of the most critics darlings exclusive. The enormous und unprecedented success of the Switch might show, that gamer prefer convenience before 4k, and even if the Switch has no Call of Duty or the latest Assassins Creed it has thousand of games, that may be enough for many players, so they don't need another console besides Switch.
Well said. The whole line about the Switch not being a competitor to Xbox or Playstatioj was just video game forum console warz and and highly unusual and self serving legal argument by SIE. It was also clickbait from internet based hardware enthusiast. The mass market looks at the games and whether they are fun and at an accessible price point.

The Switch has a huge library of good games, the Playstation has fewer games than the PS4 becisse of the high costs and time of developing AAA “cinematic“ games as well as the limits of the GAAS business model, and Xbox doesn’t have very many compelling games. I am still disappointed in Xbox for its now long track record of them buying studios but then never releasing games. Where is the next id FPS? Where is the next Bethesda RPG?

Anyway, the Switch has lots of good games and coninues to get more so it keeps selling. Playstation has few we games so it doesn’t sell as well. Xbox has too few games so it’s now a failed console.

Mr, Yamauchi was right back in 2001 about the video game industry going into decline due to the cost of development getting too high. He was incorrect about the time frame as he could not see at that time how Xbox‘s entry into the market would greatly increase how much risk the third parties were willing to take as well as the AAA JP third parties starting to bet on the west by following both Xbox and SIE’s pied piper routine. But here we are.

Video games are entertainment. They are not about hardware or online software services delivery models. As such, the recurring challenge in the entertainment business is coming up with new ideas to entertain while also controlling costs. That is hard. SIE and especially Xbox never understood those fundamenta business concepts. All they knew how to do was sell based off hardware specs as if they were selling a TV or stereo or sell based off better online content distribution services. Those are great selling points for consumer electronics and productivity software services. Not so much for entertainment, Just ask the movie industry how ballooning production costs and focusing on software delivery services of working for them.
 
While I agree the Swtich is a competitor to XB/PS, I think for the most part those players are moving to PC.

That is a great point. The HD twins have focused on PC games like western RPG’s and FPS’s and “cinematic” linear adventures aimed at ages 13+ boys since the PS360. They have always been dumbed down PC’s. They have always gone after “gamers” like the PC games did back before 2000’s. The gamers always looked down on Nintendo and Sega as kids toys. Sure sounds familiar to how modern gamers talk about Nintendo.

Nintendo was an arcade company and they make games based off arcade-like gameplay concepts. Their differentiation from the PS/Xbox/PC world is all the gameplay-first games.
 
Exactly. How much is Gamepass? £150 a year or something like that? I get that that might appeal to very heavy users who otherwise play the latest games at launch every month and spend hundreds a year on video games. But for me, the idea of just renting a vast library of stuff I won’t play at such a high price makes no sense. I play half a dozen games a year, am happy to wait and buy them at steep discounts outside of 1 or 2 that are invariably rpgs. I’d rather just pick up the handful I actually want and sell them on afterwards if I’m just going to rent them.
It is so much cheaper and better to buy 1 games a year full price, and you get to have them "forever", and then 130 on a ton of indies and old AAA games.

Most people only buy a few games a year(except on Switch), so it really doesn't make sense.
As a pretty vocal Xbox fan it's unsurprising. The combination of neglecting Europe since the console's inception and the recent string of small, very unique but ultimately niche title experiences just lead to overall disinterest.

I'll never rag on the releases MS has put out in the past couple of years. Pentinment, Hi-Fi Rush, Grounded, the AoE sequels and remakes, As Dusk Falls etc. are all extremely great and refreshing experiences in a sea of AAA megabudget sludge.

But, the core audiences want that megabudget sludge, no matter how much someone like me bemoans about it.

At the same time however I think MS has an understanding of where the market is going, their place in it, and they will prolly adapt faster to the shrinking investments and homogenization that's running rampant in the game rn. Bring on that Xbox handheld.
The problem is, Microsoft only has niche experiences, and not enough of them.
Nintendo typically has 2-3 bigger hit titles for the year, and then like 6 smaller niche titles a year. That business model really works.

Microsoft, just resigns themselves to 1 or 2 niche titles, and then 1 big hit a year. But the problem is, their AAA megabudget games aren't even that good.

If they wanted to pivot to smaller experiences, that would be incredible. But in order for that to work, MS would need to release games at a good cadence, like 1 game a month. And that simply isn't happening.
 
I don’t get how Phil Spenser hasn’t gotten ousted.

He’s had over a decade and bajillion dollar warchest and completely failed. Can’t blame Don Mattrick anymore.
 
It's going to be absolutely fascinating to see how the situation develops. Personally, I'm very wary of making predictions, and will refrain from doing so, because you never really know what's going to happen in the end. Remember when, according to analysts and other oracles, Nintendo was doomed to stop producing consoles and switch its business to smartphone games and third party publishing? Remember when, following the phenomenal success of the Playstation 2, Sony was bound to enjoy great success with the Playstation 3 and even go on to compete with Windows? Remember when Xbox was bound to capitalize on the success of the Xbox 360? So I'm going to avoid drawing any definitive conclusions about Microsoft's future in video games.

Since Xbox burst onto the video game market, they have never ceased to act in line with their parent company's objectives, namely to try and impose a proprietary ecosystem, a strategy that made Windows so successful, and to try and ultimately weaken the competition, even if it means losing money to do so. The means of achieving this have undoubtedly changed several times along the way, and the approach has undoubtedly evolved again recently, but the objective has always been the same and remains the same in my opinion.

Logically, the birth of Xbox was strongly influenced by Microsoft culture. The emphasis is on powerful hardware (still the case today), while the dominant PS2 is less powerful than the Game Cube. Their flagship game is Halo, FPS being one of the most emblematic of PC gaming. From the outset, they placed a strong emphasis on online gaming, showing themselves to be fairly pioneering on consoles. And their marketing is very much focused on their home market, the USA, which also hasn't really changed. While Playstation has taken the lead in the market by securing the massive support of third-party publishers, Xbox, in line with Microsoft's philosophy, adopts a logic of internal appropriation, i.e. acquisition. If you can't have Nintendo (your predecessors tried before you Phil, you know), then get Rare, because Rare is Donkey Kong (spoiler: no), which is an iconic character in the American history of video games. The first Xbox was a real success in the U.S., outperforming Nintendo and helping to establish the brand with a positive image.

They gradually learned, they made sure to emphasize creativity and commercial attractiveness, which is still one of their great qualities today, and they achieved a well-deserved success with the Xbox 360. The problem is that this success has only served to underline what has motivated them from the begining: imposing a closed, restrictive environment that users have grown accustomed to being captive to. This explains the disastrous launch of the Xbox One, undoubtedly linked to the fact that the success of the 360 had given them enough confidence to try and start realizing what Microsoft had been spending money on video games for all along.

When Xbox focused on Game Pass, it simply pursued the same objective in a different way, recognizing its difficulties in establishing itself with its hardware. Focusing its strategy on a subscription model simply means trying to do to the video game industry what Netflix has done to the film industry and cinemas. The problem is that the logic of quantity and library devalues the games and is difficult to make profitable, even with a large critical mass of customers, as shown by the economic difficulties and the adjustment of the offers of streaming platforms. And the game pass hasn't even reached a critical mass of customers to begin with, even with a commercially aggressive offer!

Given the fundamental reasons why Xbox insists so much, not to say heavily, on its Game Pass, neither Nintendo nor Sony have the slightest interest in welcoming this offer into their ecosystems. The still hypothetical withdrawal of Xbox from the hardware market in its current form would change absolutely nothing: the time you would spend using your Game Pass subscription on a Nintendo console, you would not spend playing and therefore buying Nintendo games. It would be like the Three Little Pigs offering tea and cookies to the Big Bad Wolf! And Sony also has much more money and value to extract from a commission on the sales of games at $70 than from a commission on a subscription model that would bring in less overall revenue. Not to mention that if Game Pass really become a big succes over time, then Xbox will no longer be in the annoying and ridiculous position of constantly begging its competitors to get into trouble themselves by hosting its service; it will be its competitors who need to be able to offer Game Pass on their plateforms.

Even becoming multiplatform is not the same as openness. It's the desire to become the world's leading publisher, to be indispensable to the entire industry, to make its own ecosystem dominant and its competitors dependent.

Wow, sorry that was way too long!
 
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It's going to be absolutely fascinating to see how the situation develops. Personally, I'm very wary of making predictions, and will refrain from doing so, because you never really know what's going to happen in the end. Remember when, according to analysts and other oracles, Nintendo was doomed to stop producing consoles and switch its business to smartphone games and third party publishing? Remember when, following the phenomenal success of the Playstation 2, Sony was bound to enjoy great success with the Playstation 3 and even go on to compete with Windows? Remember when Xbox was bound to capitalize on the success of the Xbox 360? So I'm going to avoid drawing any definitive conclusions about Microsoft's future in video games.

Since Xbox burst onto the video game market, they have never ceased to act in line with their parent company's objectives, namely to try and impose a proprietary ecosystem, a strategy that made Windows so successful, and to try and ultimately weaken the competition, even if it means losing money to do so. The means of achieving this have undoubtedly changed several times along the way, and the approach has undoubtedly evolved again recently, but the objective has always been the same and remains the same in my opinion.

Logically, the birth of Xbox was strongly influenced by Microsoft culture. The emphasis is on powerful hardware (still the case today), while the dominant PS2 is less powerful than the Game Cube. Their flagship game is Halo, FPS being one of the most emblematic of PC gaming. From the outset, they placed a strong emphasis on online gaming, showing themselves to be fairly pioneering on consoles. And their marketing is very much focused on their home market, the USA, which also hasn't really changed. While Playstation has taken the lead in the market by securing the massive support of third-party publishers, Xbox, in line with Microsoft's philosophy, adopts a logic of internal appropriation, i.e. acquisition. If you can't have Nintendo (your predecessors tried before you Phil, you know), then get Rare, because Rare is Donkey Kong (spoiler: no), which is an iconic character in the American history of video games. The first Xbox was a real success in the U.S., outperforming Nintendo and helping to establish the brand with a positive image.

They gradually learned, they made sure to emphasize creativity and commercial attractiveness, which is still one of their great qualities today, and they achieved a well-deserved success with the Xbox 360. The problem is that this success has only served to underline what has motivated them from the begining: imposing a closed, restrictive environment that users have grown accustomed to being captive to. This explains the disastrous launch of the Xbox One, undoubtedly linked to the fact that the success of the 360 had given them enough confidence to try and start realizing what Microsoft had been spending money on video games for all along.

When Xbox focused on Game Pass, it simply pursued the same objective in a different way, recognizing its difficulties in establishing itself with its hardware. Focusing its strategy on a subscription model simply means trying to do to the video game industry what Netflix has done to the film industry and cinemas. The problem is that the logic of quantity and library devalues the games and is difficult to make profitable, even with a large critical mass of customers, as shown by the economic difficulties and the adjustment of the offers of streaming platforms. And the game pass hasn't even reached a critical mass of customers to begin with, even with a commercially aggressive offer!

Given the fundamental reasons why Xbox insists so much, not to say heavily, on its Game Pass, neither Nintendo nor Sony have the slightest interest in welcoming this offer into their ecosystems. The still hypothetical withdrawal of Xbox from the hardware market in its current form would change absolutely nothing: the time you would spend using your Game Pass subscription on a Nintendo console, you would not spend playing and therefore buying Nintendo games. It would be like the Three Little Pigs offering tea and cookies to the Big Bad Wolf! And Sony also has much more money and value to extract from a commission on the sales of games at $70 than from a commission on a subscription model that would bring in less overall revenue. Not to mention that if Game Pass really become a big succes over time, then Xbox will no longer be in the annoying and ridiculous position of constantly begging its competitors to get into trouble themselves by hosting its service; it will be its competitors who need to be able to offer Game Pass on their plateforms.

Even becoming multiplatform is not the same as openness. It's the desire to become the world's leading publisher, to be indispensable to the entire industry, to make its own ecosystem dominant and its competitors dependent.

Wow, sorry that was way too long!
I wouldn’t say pushing gamepass explains the disastrous launch of the Xbox One, but I agree it was their attempt at capitalising on market positioning following the success of 360. It was a bold plan to make massive gains in market share in the US and ‘take over the living room’ there, MS’s long-term goal for Xbox. Problem was, the plan was an absolute confused clusterfuck of various factors, including the focus on the Kinect camera and all the ‘tier 2/3 countries’ stuff that threw any gains made towards being a multinational platform over the previous decade out of the window. Leaving it ‘that US multimedia platform bundled with a peripheral the market is no longer interested in and is suspicious of due to fears of data harvesting and mandatory online checks’ first and a global games platform a distinct second.

The issues with Gamepass and the Netflix approach are more of an issue today than it was with the disastrous XBO launch, I remember people largely being positive about the value when it launched, but time has proven their competitors correct not to devalue their own products by copying a TV approach.
 
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How about instead of worrying about growing your market (which is something you can't really control) these companies don't start spending less to develop their games?

why can't 50 million unities of consoles sold during a generation be enough? just make more concise games that need less money to make.

You can't grow your market forever. It's just impossible. This endless pursuit for growth is just stupid. Let's say Microsoft succeeds and they start growing at a 20% rate every single year for 5 years. And then what? They will stagnate and the problem will come back?

Why don't they try to make their business model fit their current size and then, and only then, maybe try to responsably expand?

I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm not American and I'm not used to this savage capitalism, or maybe I'm just stupid.
 
I like xbox, I genuinely believe they have the most pro consumer approach to backwards compatibility outside of the pc at the moment, and they put out some good games. They make great hardware and I think the industry is better off with them in it. That being said, I do also have a pc, so it’s not like it would be the end of the world if they stopped making hardware, I’d just be a bit bummed out.
 
How about instead of worrying about growing your market (which is something you can't really control) these companies don't start spending less to develop their games?

why can't 50 million unities of consoles sold during a generation be enough? just make more concise games that need less money to make.

You can't grow your market forever. It's just impossible. This endless pursuit for growth is just stupid. Let's say Microsoft succeeds and they start growing at a 20% rate every single year for 5 years. And then what? They will stagnate and the problem will come back?

Why don't they try to make their business model fit their current size and then, and only then, maybe try to responsably expand?

I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm not American and I'm not used to this savage capitalism, or maybe I'm just stupid.
This is a much broader issue with capitalism, and yes it is stupid. Personally Im fairly certain its going to doom us all (as in the human species).
 
How about instead of worrying about growing your market (which is something you can't really control) these companies don't start spending less to develop their games?

why can't 50 million unities of consoles sold during a generation be enough? just make more concise games that need less money to make.

You can't grow your market forever. It's just impossible. This endless pursuit for growth is just stupid. Let's say Microsoft succeeds and they start growing at a 20% rate every single year for 5 years. And then what? They will stagnate and the problem will come back?

Why don't they try to make their business model fit their current size and then, and only then, maybe try to responsably expand?

I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm not American and I'm not used to this savage capitalism, or maybe I'm just stupid.
I know it's easy to go "durr capitalism number go up only brrr", but there is a pragmatic reason for wanting the numbers to go up. Things get more expensive with time due to inflation including employee wages, utilities, etc. At some point you either need to make more income to offset the rising costs of existence, or reduce your expenses. Obviously a big part of the problem is the 1% hoards their wealth and aren't fairly taxed/aren't trickling down the income, though that expands a bit beyond the topic of "why can't they be content with 50 mill".
 
I know it's easy to go "durr capitalism number go up only brrr", but there is a pragmatic reason for wanting the numbers to go up. Things get more expensive with time due to inflation including employee wages, utilities, etc. At some point you either need to make more income to offset the rising costs of existence, or reduce your expenses. Obviously a big part of the problem is the 1% hoards their wealth and aren't fairly taxed/aren't trickling down the income, though that expands a bit beyond the topic of "why can't they be content with 50 mill".
marginal growth (growth to mitigate inflationary corrosion) is irrelevant in this situation.
 
How about instead of worrying about growing your market (which is something you can't really control) these companies don't start spending less to develop their games?

why can't 50 million unities of consoles sold during a generation be enough? just make more concise games that need less money to make.

You can't grow your market forever. It's just impossible. This endless pursuit for growth is just stupid. Let's say Microsoft succeeds and they start growing at a 20% rate every single year for 5 years. And then what? They will stagnate and the problem will come back?

Why don't they try to make their business model fit their current size and then, and only then, maybe try to responsably expand?

I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm not American and I'm not used to this savage capitalism, or maybe I'm just stupid.
Shareholders want constant growth.
 
It is kinda on the company to control shareholder expectations and... well tell them to pound sand if they are being unreasonable. Not literally, but we've seen Nintendo basically shrug off a lot of typical shareholder hype expectations pretty bluntly. But not every company is Nintendo there.
 
How about instead of worrying about growing your market (which is something you can't really control) these companies don't start spending less to develop their games?

why can't 50 million unities of consoles sold during a generation be enough? just make more concise games that need less money to make.

You can't grow your market forever. It's just impossible. This endless pursuit for growth is just stupid. Let's say Microsoft succeeds and they start growing at a 20% rate every single year for 5 years. And then what? They will stagnate and the problem will come back?

Why don't they try to make their business model fit their current size and then, and only then, maybe try to responsably expand?

I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm not American and I'm not used to this savage capitalism, or maybe I'm just stupid.
Well, you said it. Start spending less to develop games.
That's the reason of layoffs from the perspective of finance suits. They look at employees and see costs, not investments (as the market is not growing).
 
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It is kinda on the company to control shareholder expectations and... well tell them to pound sand if they are being unreasonable. Not literally, but we've seen Nintendo basically shrug off a lot of typical shareholder hype expectations pretty bluntly. But not every company is Nintendo there.
Nintendo is probably in their most profitable era of all time and has a ton of cash on hand. Easy to tell shareholders to piss off when you’re making money hand over fist.
 
Can’t say about flatlining as I do not have any information on sales, but looking at storeshelves, commercials on tv… its PlayStation and Nintendo. Xbox is a non entity here in the Netherlands.

PlayStation is front and center with big third party releases and that helps a lot, the Champions League marketing push. Especially this season you’ll see PlayStation as a bumper before commercial breaks or just before a match starts.

Switch is visible too; kids networks, but at mainstream networks as well.

Compare that to Xbox, you just don’t see anything in the media. Nothing. Nada. When heading towards stores (online as well) there’s very little room anymore for Xbox stuff. Some controllers, couple of small rows with games lost in a sea of PS and Switch.
 
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I know it's easy to go "durr capitalism number go up only brrr", but there is a pragmatic reason for wanting the numbers to go up. Things get more expensive with time due to inflation including employee wages, utilities, etc. At some point you either need to make more income to offset the rising costs of existence, or reduce your expenses. Obviously a big part of the problem is the 1% hoards their wealth and aren't fairly taxed/aren't trickling down the income, though that expands a bit beyond the topic of "why can't they be content with 50 mill".
The famous Xbox podcast anyway was a caricature: the most pronounced word was literally 'growth'. It looked like a cult.

This is not to say that growth is not important for companies, but we must understand that we are in a logic where companies lay off not because they have no growth, but because they don’t have as much as they planned. L

The problem is not just inflation. If prices experience inflation but wages also experience inflation, then purchasing power is not impacted. If you start laying people off in all industries because you have crazy expectations in all industries in terms of profitability, people who have lost their jobs will no longer be able to buy products, whose prices will continue to rise. This will produce even less profitability, so even more layoffs, so even less purchasing power, so even less profitability etc. It is a vicious circle based on insane projections.

Everyone is in danger. The internal culture of Sony, like that of Microsoft, like that of Nintendo, gives fes strengths and weaknesses. Producing increasingly expensive games without worrying about the release rate, focusing only on one type of cinematic game, it is both a logic of camcorder manufacturer and cinema studio.

Xbox has been influenced by what Microsoft is basically, for better or for worse.

One of the great dangers for Nintendo is not to realize the outside world, this situation, to remain the nose in their ecosystem and in their ideas. This is a strength for now, as Sony’s identity may have been a strength for Playstation, but it can quickly become a weakness too if they are not careful to take into account people’s demand and its evolution.
 
I feel as though Microsoft's largest issue is that they've made the Xbox brand obsolete themselves.
Said it before but it’s really sort of been the weirdest strategy if you take a step back for a second

Company trying to sell expensive console told people “play anywhere; you don’t even need an Xbox!” So they didn’t buy one

Company whose main objective is to sell games conditioned the user base they did have to not buy games, so they stopped buying games

Their game pass service ended up costing so much it just made more financial sense to acquire entire large studios even for tens of billions of dollars rather than license each big AAA game individually

But now after acquiring all these studios and funding these games they then wound up in a strange scenario where they themselves would rather gamers buy the games they make on their competitors consoles because on Xbox they can’t sell it

Like what an absolute clusterfuck
 
If they wanted to pivot to smaller experiences, that would be incredible. But in order for that to work, MS would need to release games at a good cadence, like 1 game a month. And that simply isn't happening.

This is an extremely unrealistic approach to game development. Just because MS is pivoting to smaller experiences doesn't automatically mean the development and release process is shortened.

These smaller games still take 2-3 years at the minimum to produce.
 
Said it before but it’s really sort of been the weirdest strategy if you take a step back for a second

Company trying to sell expensive console told people “play anywhere; you don’t even need an Xbox!” So they didn’t buy one

Company whose main objective is to sell games conditioned the user base they did have to not buy games, so they stopped buying games

Their game pass service ended up costing so much it just made more financial sense to acquire entire large studios even for tens of billions of dollars rather than license each big AAA game individually

But now after acquiring all these studios and funding these games they then wound up in a strange scenario where they themselves would rather gamers buy the games they make on their competitors consoles because on Xbox they can’t sell it

Like what an absolute clusterfuck
Well, it was a (failed) gamble of Game Pass becoming so big as a service "platform" across both Xbox and PC (and then, ideally, on even more hardware / gaming devices) that it'd make their own dedicated hardware basically less important (it did!) and at least partially replace it in terms of making money / having users stick with it (it didn't). Given that the latter part was the critical one, yeah, it's no wonder it looks like a complete clusterfuck in retrospect.

The thing I don't get is, how could no one at Xbox anticipate the huuuge issue of publishers and developers not being fully on board with the GP model? Once it was clear just how much money this project would swallow, I'd have re-thought the approach. It seems like, to me at least, the realisation that they'd need tons of first party content to really push GP instead of relying on third parties' goodwill came so late, GP at that point had been struggling already. Basically expecting the service to sell itself based only on value, but not really offering a must play selection of games, that seems like such a huge oversight to me.
 
The more and more I think about it, the more and more funny the irony behind Xbox's downfall is. They thought they could literally outspend the market in order to make Xbox competitive, but it got to a point where they spent so much money they actually had to produce results, and when they couldn't they had to start making Xbox less competitive to get their moneys worth, defeating the entire point, now it's gotten to a point where it's not even just Gamepass and PC releases but games coming to other consoles and Xbox's entire existence as a whole being extremely questionable. Microsoft turning into more of a games publisher was always the move of course, but I don't think they meant for Xbox to die this quickly and this badly, in the meantime they legitimately wanted to increase demand for their products while things like game services and streaming became more popular.

Xbox thought they could outspend and bully the market, when all they ended up outspending was themselves.
 
It is kinda on the company to control shareholder expectations and... well tell them to pound sand if they are being unreasonable. Not literally, but we've seen Nintendo basically shrug off a lot of typical shareholder hype expectations pretty bluntly. But not every company is Nintendo there.
Companies like Nintendo and Apple etc don’t hold “business meetings” or podcasts when there are rumours about their plans or projections to calm the fan base down.

Xbox is this strange company that reacts to online fanatical persons in a flash like we saw in February. It shows they are not confident in their approach.
 
Companies like Nintendo and Apple etc don’t hold “business meetings” or podcasts when there are rumours about their plans or projections to calm the fan base down.

Xbox is this strange company that reacts to online fanatical persons in a flash like we saw in February. It shows they are not confident in their approach.
Not to mention the shareholders, who in any company are only interested in their own profit, more and more often, to the detriment of any strategic and industrial coherence, the difference between Microsoft, and Apple or Nintendo is mostly that despite the fact that every company has flaws, Apple or Nintendo start by having ideas that they try to make profitable, while Microsoft, always, start by thinking about their willingness to make money before trying to improvise what idea might make it possible to do so.
 
This is an extremely unrealistic approach to game development. Just because MS is pivoting to smaller experiences doesn't automatically mean the development and release process is shortened.

These smaller games still take 2-3 years at the minimum to produce.
Microsoft literally has 22,000 Xbox employees.

Nintendo is able to release at that cadence with 7,323 employees.

There are absolutely no excuses for not releasing a game almost every month.

And yes, Nintendo also works with outside developers. But the total number of Nintendo's development force with second party studios, and outside contractors(like Good Feel) is probably less than 14,000, and Microsoft still employs a huge amount of contractors as well.

And yes, smaller games take 2-3 years to develop. But if you have smaller, more concise development teams, you can work on many more projects at once. That's how you get more than a single game every 4 months.
 
Microsoft literally has 22,000 Xbox employees.

Nintendo is able to release at that cadence with 7,323 employees.

There are absolutely no excuses for not releasing a game almost every month.

And yes, Nintendo also works with outside developers. But the total number of Nintendo's development force with second party studios, and outside contractors(like Good Feel) is probably less than 14,000, and Microsoft still employs a huge amount of contractors as well.

And yes, smaller games take 2-3 years to develop. But if you have smaller, more concise development teams, you can work on many more projects at once. That's how you get more than a single game every 4 months.
Microsoft's release schedule is getting better and I don't think it's fair to expect developers, even first party ones, to release games every month. The amount of effort that takes is insane and likely forces developers to conform to schedules that are unhealthy.

If it was 6 releases a year, that's fine... which is actually what we got last year.

Hi-Fi Rush, Minecraft Legends, Redfall, Age of Empires 4, Starfield, Forza Motorsport. Sure, I get that around half of these are controversial releases for various reasons, but it's still a good first attempt at a 6-a-year release schedule after the Bethesda acquisition, with Hi-Fi Rush and Forza Motorsport winning 3 TGA awards which is a huge improvement to previous years. Hell, that's ignoring stuff like Goldeneye 007's rerelease, Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition, Killer Instinct Anniversary Edition, Ghostwire: Tokyo's Xbox version, the Quake 2 remaster.

Then there's this year. I do think the lack of any release so far is... bad, but there's still Hellblade 2, Ara History Untold, Avowed, Indiana Jones.

Keep in mind, I still have a lot of resentment to Xbox's current state as a publisher. I think Redfall is one of the most personally insulting releases in years, the release state of Forza Motorsport was not great at all, Starfield is a game that exists, and the layoffs are blatantly unacceptable... but to pretend they're not actively trying to improve their release schedule, especially after Sony's far more egregious 2023 having 2 games (Spider-man 2 and MLB The Show 24), is a bit annoying. Nintendo has a better release schedule, sure, but Xbox's is not bad as it currently is.

Could it be better..? No shit it could be, but it's not terrible and undoubtedly better than the state of Sony's current publishing business.
 
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Microsoft literally has 22,000 Xbox employees.

Nintendo is able to release at that cadence with 7,323 employees.

There are absolutely no excuses for not releasing a game almost every month.

And yes, Nintendo also works with outside developers. But the total number of Nintendo's development force with second party studios, and outside contractors(like Good Feel) is probably less than 14,000, and Microsoft still employs a huge amount of contractors as well.

And yes, smaller games take 2-3 years to develop. But if you have smaller, more concise development teams, you can work on many more projects at once. That's how you get more than a single game every 4 months.
The difference is that Nintendo has built an ecosystem where many buy stuff like Peach, Kirby, Fire Emblem and other smaller titles. Xbox like the PS is an ecosystem for AAA blockbusters and GAAS games. Meaning that the ecosystem they have created won't accept lower budget games as being close to good enough to match the high expectations that their user base have. Xbox user base is even worse than the PS user base because the Xbox user base as of today won't even pay money to play new AAA games, they only play games that are free on gamepass. So their expectation is regular AAA games on gamepass for them to be pleased with Xbox output.
 
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Yeah, without the ABK acquisition the picture would be looking pretty grim at this point. Declining to such a degree in what should usually be one of the strongest years of a console generation is / would've been disastrous.
 
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While it already had a strong foothold on rival platforms thanks to perennial best-sellers Call of Duty and Minecraft, Xbox recently announced plans to bring more first-party games to PlayStation and Nintendo Switch, starting with Pentiment, Hi-Fi Rush, Sea of Thieves and Grounded.

And during Microsoft’s third quarter earnings call on Thursday, CEO Satya Nadella said Xbox games have been performing strongly on the PlayStation Store.

“Earlier this month, we had seven games among the top 25 on the PlayStation Store, more than any other publisher,” he said.
I think it makes sense that they'd put most of their output on more platforms go forward. You don't just buy ABK for ~$70bn to make those games exclusive anyhow.
 

I think it makes sense that they'd put most of their output on more platforms go forward. You don't just buy ABK for ~$70bn to make those games exclusive anyhow.

If they go multiplatform fully, Xbox sales will continue to collapse further, and if Xbox collapses, Game Pass collapses and Spencer bet everything on Game Pass soooooooo

The big issue with all of their purchases and plan is that there was no synergy.
 
man I dunno it really does feel like they are "growing" but by a technicality measure rather than organically
Yeah. They grew by the technical measure that Activision Blizzard titles are their titles now. But everything else is either stagnant, in decline, or collapsing.
 
If they go multiplatform fully, Xbox sales will continue to collapse further, and if Xbox collapses, Game Pass collapses and Spencer bet everything on Game Pass soooooooo

The big issue with all of their purchases and plan is that there was no synergy.

There hasn’t been a plan, long term thinking or synergy since the early 360 days.
 
man I dunno it really does feel like they are "growing" but by a technicality measure rather than organically
Yup. Microsoft are masters at spinning their financials for these investor meetings. Without the influx of ABK+Blizz they'd be relying on more weird statistics and percentages.
 
Yup. Microsoft are masters at spinning their financials for these investor meetings. Without the influx of ABK+Blizz they'd be relying on more weird statistics and percentages.
They don't just spin their own financials, they also end up spinning larger narratives about their industries. Instead of focusing the conversation on how Microsoft's post-360 offerings have been underwhelming, Phil and others have used to PR to distract from Xbox's sad reality.
 
There hasn’t been a plan, long term thinking or synergy since the early 360 days.

I’d argue they had a good strategy on paper for the Phil Spencer era - build a unified digital ecosystem that allows people pick up and play games anywhere (Xbox, pc, XCloud) while building long-term trust / goodwill in that ecosystem through strong initiatives in backwards-compatibility, accessibility (GamePass, adaptive controller), and making experiences for individual players (controller design lab, unique games like Hi-Fi Rush). Obviously some of those are much bigger parts of actually generating revenue, but they all play into a singular strategy.

The biggest problem was they needed a higher output of games AND more critically acclaimed/ GOTY-caliber games in parallel with these aspects. The last few years of promising this and still not really delivering hasn’t built up that desire for people to buy-in and grow their user base as they need.

I say this as someone who loved Starfield and is subscribing to GamePass until at least August 2025. I see potential in what they were doing, but it’s clear they need a reboot
 

I think it makes sense that they'd put most of their output on more platforms go forward. You don't just buy ABK for ~$70bn to make those games exclusive anyhow.

So as per the terms of the merger, certain titles such as COD are required to stay multiplat.

That being said: the entire model of having a walled garden ecosystem is built around the idea of having exclusives that gets people to buy into the platform you're offering.

At that moment, Microsoft doesn't have a compelling killer app as an exclusive for the Xbox, whereas Nintendo and Sony have plenty of highly rated exclusives on theirs. So the issue becomes: why buy Xbox hardware if you can still play the same games elsewhere, plus exclusives you can't get on Xbox?
 
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