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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Personally, for most turn based games, I'd rather pump the graphics and take 30fps

Edit: I guess that's why quality/performance mode toggles are nice :p
 
Not sure how to embed a Mastodon post here but...

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https://fedi.rib.gay/notes/9tlrdbv9bckd5711

Crossgen confirmed!

(Kidding but for real could we be seeing a few more of this from upcoming Switch 1 games until we are fully rolled out with Switch 2?)
 
I hate how every surface looks really glossy and reflective even the ones that aren't supposed to.

This has more to do with the camera angle than SSR or the materials. While some materials are more reflective than others, it's the Fresnel coefficient that's triggering the SSR in the first place. If the camera was overhead, the reflections would disappear, which is why the walls perpendicular to the camera aren't very reflective as they meet the camera more head on. This is similar to how Fresnel works in real life. Of course, an argument against realism can certainly be made, but that's the direction the devs chose to go in.
 
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Okay, as someone who has almost 1000 hours in Splatoon 3....what the heck is Nintendo doing to improve the internet capability? and how the heck did that get so screwed up in the Switch?! :ROFLMAO:

I literally just played a game where three of my team members disconnected and two on the enemy team. I obviously lost because I was by myself, but I was cracking up at how ridiculous it was. It's a great game, but "a connection error has occurred" deserves to be a meme.

In this 5G era we live in, surely Nintendo can do better with the Switch 2?

Same. Splatoon 3 is what forced me into looking for dumb Wi-Fi workarounds due to all the disconnections (my Switch's location isn't near an Ethernet port). As it's P2P, me being in a region with Japan but being nowhere near Japan doesn't help.

I noticed sellers in another country were selling plain range extenders marketed as "Switch Internet Boosters", so I copied the setup.

I plug a TP-Link USB-to-Ethernet adapter into the Switch (I'm no tech expert, but it performed better than my official Hori adapters). Then connect it via an Ethernet cable to a Wi-Fi range extender of the same brand. Significantly less dropouts immediately. Turns out, it was mostly me being disconnected from other people (mostly Japanese players), even though the game presented the disconnections as "other people" DCing.

The Wi-Fi card is a terror. Sidenote, got a new expensive PC motherboard recently, which has a horrendous built-in Wi-Fi module (AMD/Mediatek RZ616 Wi-Fi 6E) featuring dropouts galore, too. Fixed by buying a separate Wi-Fi module (which uses a Qualcomm one). Clearly price isn't the only issue with these things.
 
This has more to do with the camera angle than SSR or the materials. While some materials are more reflective than others, it's the Fresnel coefficient that's triggering the SSR in the first place. If the camera was overhead, the reflections would disappear, which is why the walls aren't very reflective as the meet the camera more head on. This is similar to how Fresnel works in real life. Of course, an argument against realism can certainly be made, but that's the direction the devs chose to go in.
The surface thing is just what they chose to make reflective, the technique they used doesn't decide that for them.
I worded that badly, I know that it was an intentional decision to make all surfaces reflective (probably to accentuate the paper aesthetic), I just think it was bad decision.
 
At this point, I think it is safe to say that devs are taking into account the successor when developing games. Basically cross-platform with forward thinking. As much as people may want 1080p60fps (or one of the two) with TTYD remake/remaster/whatever, to achieve that would require cutting out features and effects that make it look so good even on limited hardware. Features and effects that may be a lot harder to re-add in a theoretical successor upgrade than to boost resolution/fps (which in resolution would already be a thing if going above 1080p).
If I may, this is part why I think the idea of paid patches is a non-starter. Not only do these games not seem to have any DRM checks on their resolution, the resolution cap's 4K support is baked in. In some games it would be more work to charge for a patch than simply provide them. Beyond that, of course, charging people to use sections of code they already own a copy of is, in my view, unethical, like on-disk DLC or manipulative in-app purchases.
 
Ohh I know about that. I just want more lol.
Your last post was awhile back, so I wasn’t sure. But you may haven’t read this yet:

 
here's a tip, if someone is saying they have inside deets about acquisitions, they're automatically bullshit.



Epic posted an interview about the mobile/pc/ps open world gacha game, Wuthering Waves. pointing out this interview because it shows that even when you target low end devices like mobile, you can still stand with some of the best looking games. also gives a bit of insight about some limitations that Switch/Drake would run into, namely bandwidth constraints

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Which is such a change. Because either remember when Unreal engine 3 wouldn't even touch the Wii. Then again Wii didn't have programmable shaders.... or multicore.... or over 100 MB of ram.
 
Doesn't look very meaningful. It's clearly not code handling actual render resolutions, since the game doesn't render at native 1080p or 720p either, and the first condition is an explicit resolution override of some kind, not code that's intended to change the resolution through the proper means on another platform. Who knows if this code is even used? Fishing something out of an engine that has resolution numbers in it with zero context and making people speculate about it is silly.
 
At this point, I think it is safe to say that devs are taking into account the successor when developing games. Basically cross-platform with forward thinking. As much as people may want 1080p60fps (or one of the two) with TTYD remake/remaster/whatever, to achieve that would require cutting out features and effects that make it look so good even on limited hardware. Features and effects that may be a lot harder to re-add in a theoretical successor upgrade than to boost resolution/fps (which in resolution would already be a thing if going above 1080p).
Well, this great. So I will try and get this game around rhe Switch 2 launch.
 
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Doesn't look very meaningful. It's clearly not code handling actual render resolutions, since the game doesn't render at native 1080p or 720p either, and the first condition is an explicit resolution override of some kind, not code that's intended to change the resolution through the proper means on another platform. Who knows if this code is even used? Fishing something out of an engine that has resolution numbers in it with zero context and making people speculate about it is silly.
I know it's sort of a long shot, but is there a chance the engine is handling its resolution in terms of percentages instead of a hard-coded value? Like right now at a 1080p/docked output, it internally renders at 83% so 900p, while a 720p/portable output, it renders at 88% so 640p. Maybe if it recognizes a higher value from the OS, say 2160p/docked, it could adjust its target to 83% so 1800p, while 1080p/portable could adjust to 88% so 960p? Sort of like an automatic upgrade without needing a dedicated patch?

Truthfully I really don't think this is it, but it's something that came to mind.
 
I worded that badly, I know that it was an intentional decision to make all surfaces reflective (probably to accentuate the paper aesthetic), I just think it was bad decision.

If your argument is that they shouldn't have used a rendering approach that adheres so closely to how light behaves in real life, I think that's fair. The game's style isn't that realistic after all. I don't think they can satisfy everyone with the direction they took, and it's understandable that some people simply won't like it.
 
If I may, this is part why I think the idea of paid patches is a non-starter. Not only do these games not seem to have any DRM checks on their resolution, the resolution cap's 4K support is baked in. In some games it would be more work to charge for a patch than simply provide them. Beyond that, of course, charging people to use sections of code they already own a copy of is, in my view, unethical, like on-disk DLC or manipulative in-app purchases.
Sure, for some games like TTYD you can easily have it run at 4K60 out of the box on T239, but for more demanding games like TotK, Doom Eternal, and MK1, I imagine that more work is needed to get them over the hump, probably through DLSS. That's the kind of thing you can charge for.
 
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I'm thinking that we should see the Switch 2 and the launch games pretty soon. I mean if Switch 2 is planned to launch in march 2025 then Nintendo probably needs to showcase a new 3D Mario game at least 6 months before it is released. Breath of the wild which was the launch game for Switch was already revealed so that is why Nintendo could wait until january 2017 before a huge showcase. But now the 3D Mario launch game is entirely unknown, meaning that Nintendo needs to put the huge showcase this summer or fall at the latest to hit that march 2025 release date for Switch 2.
 
Sure, for some games like TTYD you can easily have it run at 4K60 out of the box on T239, but for more demanding games like TotK, Doom Eternal, and MK1, I imagine that more work is needed to get them over the hump, probably through DLSS. That's the kind of thing you can charge for.
And the market would react with such understanding, kindness, and generosity when little Timmy doesn't understand why he's being nickle and dimed when he boots up Tears of the Kingdom for the first time on his new console when all his other games just look better "like magic". 😅

As a general rule, publishers on Xbox either charge for all their next gen upgrades, or none of them, pretty much for that reason alone. Really... Really poor market reaction. Doom Eternal and MK1 are outside Nintendo's remit, that'll be up to their developers to figure out if they want to or not, and whether to charge or not. But I wouldn't hastily assume that Tears of the Kingdom doesn't have work done on its resolution cap; tough I personally wouldn't expect 4K60 out of it.

You think Microsoft provided free upgrades for Skyrim on Xbox Series X out of the kindness of their hearts?
😆

Just because you "can" charge for something, and you can charge for anything if you're brave, or unwise, doesn't mean you should, doesn't mean it'll help, it doesn't even mean that it will make money.

Edit: to summarise, if one Nintendo published game gets a free patch, it's a bad look if others charge for it, so I don't see them doing that when it's an effective marketing tool with proven financial rewards to do them for free.
 
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I know it's sort of a long shot, but is there a chance the engine is handling its resolution in terms of percentages instead of a hard-coded value? Like right now at a 1080p/docked output, it internally renders at 83% so 900p, while a 720p/portable output, it renders at 88% so 640p. Maybe if it recognizes a higher value from the OS, say 2160p/docked, it could adjust its target to 83% so 1800p, while 1080p/portable could adjust to 88% so 960p? Sort of like an automatic upgrade without needing a dedicated patch?

Truthfully I really don't think this is it, but it's something that came to mind.
These would be good things for someone to look into before posting a screenshot of 10 lines of code and claiming the game is "handling 4K resolutions."

There are several reasons why I think this code is likely not meaningful, though, and the mismatch from the native resolution is just one of them. The mismatch could be because this is just sizing an output buffer and not actually controlling the render resolution. But the fact that the "4K" is an explicit resolution override means this is almost certainly a debug setting, compared to the 720p/1008p check which is likely just checking the performance mode (where 0 = normal/handheld and 1 = boost/docked) and choosing the resolution based on that. Maybe they use the override to capture 4K screenshots for marketing.
 
If your argument is that they shouldn't have used a rendering approach that adheres so closely to how light behaves in real life, I think that's fair. The game's style isn't that realistic after all. I don't think they can satisfy everyone with the direction they took, and it's understandable that some people simply won't like it.
Nah It's just me being mad about how in the modern Paper Mario games they put much more emphasis on the paper aesthetic.
Like grass or stone shouldn't be reflective, but because it's ackshually not grass or stone, but paper that's shaped (folded?) to look like grass or stone it totally makes sense that it should be reflective.
Instead of paper being just art style, in the new games the world is made out of actual literal paper.

I don't like it because it makes the world of the game feel less real to me, as silly as it sounds.
 
Doesn't look very meaningful. It's clearly not code handling actual render resolutions, since the game doesn't render at native 1080p or 720p either, and the first condition is an explicit resolution override of some kind, not code that's intended to change the resolution through the proper means on another platform. Who knows if this code is even used? Fishing something out of an engine that has resolution numbers in it with zero context and making people speculate about it is silly.

I agree to keep the speculation in check, but the snippet didn't just magically show up there and arbitrarily choose 4K as a resolution for itself. The If condition explicitly checks for a 4K resolution (3840x2160) and sets values accordingly, while the Else conditions handle 1080p and 720p, if necessary. This indicates some level of intentionality behind handling these specific resolutions. It may not be related to the internal rendering resolution but could be for setting the output resolution, perhaps for compatibility with different displays or future-proofing. Again, I agree it's important that people don't wildly extrapolate from this info, but the inclusion of such specific resolution handling suggests it has a defined purpose for something, even if its inclusion here is merely incidental. So I wouldn't exactly call it meaningless either. Could be for testing, though for what is anyone's guess.
 
I'm thinking that we should see the Switch 2 and the launch games pretty soon. I mean if Switch 2 is planned to launch in march 2025 then Nintendo probably needs to showcase a new 3D Mario game at least 6 months before it is released. Breath of the wild which was the launch game for Switch was already revealed so that is why Nintendo could wait until january 2017 before a huge showcase. But now the 3D Mario launch game is entirely unknown, meaning that Nintendo needs to put the huge showcase this summer or fall at the latest to hit that march 2025 release date for Switch 2.
I don't think a 3D Mario game needs  that much buildup from reveal to release, especially if it's a launch title. It'll be fine being announced alongside the console itself.
 
Nah It's just me being mad about how in the modern Paper Mario games they put much more emphasis on the paper aesthetic.
Like grass or stone shouldn't be reflective, but because it's ackshually not grass or stone, but paper that's shaped (folded?) to look like grass or stone it totally makes sense that it should be reflective.
Instead of paper being just art style, in the new games the world is made out of actual literal paper.

I don't like it because it makes the world of the game feel less real to me, as silly as it sounds.

Well here's the thing about real life light transport, everything, including real grass, is specularly reflective at grazing angles. The difference in real life is that we don't look most surfaces from sufficient angles for them to produce Fresnel reflections in a very obvious way. But if you were to take a blade of grass, and hold it flat and horizontally right under your eyes, you would see a reflection.

More to your point though, I completely understand if you don't want the world to seem like it's literally made out of paper.
 
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I agree to keep the speculation in check, but the snippet didn't just magically show up there and arbitrarily choose 4K as a resolution for itself. The If condition explicitly checks for a 4K resolution (3840x2160) and sets values accordingly, while the Else conditions handle 1080p and 720p, if necessary. This indicates some level of intentionality behind handling these specific resolutions. It may not be related to the internal rendering resolution but could be for setting the output resolution, perhaps for compatibility with different displays or future-proofing. Again, I agree it's important that people don't wildly extrapolate from this info, but the inclusion of such specific resolution handling suggests it has a defined purpose for something, even if its inclusion here is merely incidental. So I wouldn't exactly call it meaningless either. Could be for testing, though for what is anyone's guess.
Well, I meant meaningful for us as people who are constantly speculating whether and how "cross-gen" or "enhancement" might be on the table for the next console. The code is probably there for a reason, I just think it's highly unlikely that reason has anything to do with the new console.
 
1) Gabe wouldn't allow it.
2) Regulators absolutely would not approve it.
The Community Notes got their ass.
"While last year there was discussions about a buyout in 2020, nothing has come of it. No credible evidence/publications have come out this year either about Microsoft wanting to attempt to buy Valve either."
 
Is this game the same engine as Origami King, and are those lines of code in there? Just curious.
 
As excitable as I am, Animal Crossing New Horizons had 5K screenshots used for marketing purposes, and obviously nothing has come of that. So even if this code is functional, it could well be for, well, that.
It used 5K screenshots? Were they using the Mac Pro Display by any chance lol
 
Okay, as someone who has almost 1000 hours in Splatoon 3....what the heck is Nintendo doing to improve the internet capability? and how the heck did that get so screwed up in the Switch?! :ROFLMAO:

I literally just played a game where three of my team members disconnected and two on the enemy team. I obviously lost because I was by myself, but I was cracking up at how ridiculous it was. It's a great game, but "a connection error has occurred" deserves to be a meme.

In this 5G era we live in, surely Nintendo can do better with the Switch 2?
This isn't anything to do with the Switch itself and rather just the implementation of multiplayer in these games. Netcode is very hard, even for the most experienced developers, and Nintendo's first party developers especially seem to struggle with it.
 
Guys, hand me some copium here. Do you guys think Bayonetta 3 will get a next gen patch?
No game makes me feel like it needs some fixing, especially texture wise, as bad as Bayonetta 3.

I know the game is like a blip in the radar to Nintendo and the general audience but I need that copium.
 
My naive guess is that this is related to display output considering the three mods (2160p, 1080p, 720p) present in this code snippet, the former two being the projected resolutions for the Switch 2 docked/handheld modes and the latter two the current Switch's. Hence why no other presets like 1440p are present since that is not a commonly supported signal for most televisions.

But that's assuming this is related to new hardware which we have no additional context to be sure of.
 
These would be good things for someone to look into before posting a screenshot of 10 lines of code and claiming the game is "handling 4K resolutions."

There are several reasons why I think this code is likely not meaningful, though, and the mismatch from the native resolution is just one of them. The mismatch could be because this is just sizing an output buffer and not actually controlling the render resolution. But the fact that the "4K" is an explicit resolution override means this is almost certainly a debug setting, compared to the 720p/1008p check which is likely just checking the performance mode (where 0 = normal/handheld and 1 = boost/docked) and choosing the resolution based on that. Maybe they use the override to capture 4K screenshots for marketing.

I didn't make any claim about the game engine, just that I saw the post.

It's true I don't know what the snippet of code shared does, but it could be an output option in the game buffer. If the game renders at 900p docked but outputs at 1080p through simple buffer upscaling, then this -- if real -- could just mean 4K output has been added to the underlying engine. An engine that was reused, after all.

It was a neat find that I shared. I didn't speculate (until now!) -- that's for you all. ;)
 
CPU-wise, Switch 2 out performs the BG3 minimum spec in benchmarks, and the game runs on Steam Deck. No question about a port being possible.

Series S and Series X have very comparable visual settings, and have comparable frame rates in the worst areas. This is a sure sign of the game being CPU limited. That is both good and bad news for a port. Series S has a 1080p image with zero upscaling, and its other settings downgrades seem entirely related to memory usage, not GPU power. So a good looking version of the game should be possible.

The bad news is that you can't just lower the visual settings and get a good frame rate. CPU-wise, Switch 2 simply won't be clocked at 3.8GHz. IPC being the same between Zen 2 and A78 won't eliminate the overall clock difference. The game struggles because of "legitimate" CPU load, it just has a lot of NPCs, each running different AI code, decisions trees and animations.

Whether the third act can be brought up to acceptable performance, I don't know. And it's entirely possible that the only option is to aggressively downgrade the visuals to (very inefficiently) claw back room in the frame budget to for the CPU, which they can't as easily cut back. Blech.
Theoretically speaking, could NX2 provide a mode where somehow CPU clocks are increased and (I guess) GPU clocks are decreased? This would allow to keep Switch temps and battery comsuption in check while increasing the chances of these CPU demanding/limited games to be ported. Obviously this would be at the cost of visual fidelity but might be worth it?
 
Guys, hand me some copium here. Do you guys think Bayonetta 3 will get a next gen patch?
No game makes me feel like it needs some fixing, especially texture wise, as bad as Bayonetta 3.

I know the game is like a blip in the radar to Nintendo and the general audience but I need that copium.

As a big Bayo fan and with 3 being my favorite to run through, I doubt it.

Though I think if they have it to run at its highest resolution and framerate I think that'll be enough to look and play better.
 
As a big Bayo fan and with 3 being my favorite to run through, I doubt it.

Though I think if they have it to run at its highest resolution and framerate I think that'll be enough to look and play better.
That would certainly help but the crappy textures would need some actual work. Look at how it looks on yuzu at 4K. Yes, it's certainly more pleasant to watch but, ugh, the grayish colors, the crappy coloring, weird lighting, muddy textures, etc. are all still there.

But hey, I'd be happy with 4K60. I just need to that game to be at least a bit better.
 
That would certainly help but the crappy textures would need some actual work. Look at how it looks on yuzu at 4K. Yes, it's certainly more pleasant to watch but, ugh, the grayish colors, the crappy coloring, weird lighting, muddy textures, etc. are all still there.

But hey, I'd be happy with 4K60. I just need to that game to be at least a bit better.
wasn't there a rumor surrounding a remaster of the bayonetta games on switch 2? probably best to ask here about its validity

if it's any consolation, with how much bayonetta 3 feels like a ps4 game cheesegrated into a switch one, i imagine a version of 3 that looks as originally intended isn't far off
 
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I didn't make any claim about the game engine, just that I saw the post.

It's true I don't know what the snippet of code shared does, but it could be an output option in the game buffer. If the game renders at 900p docked but outputs at 1080p through simple buffer upscaling, then this -- if real -- could just mean 4K output has been added to the underlying engine. An engine that was reused, after all.

It was a neat find that I shared. I didn't speculate (until now!) -- that's for you all. ;)
I was referring to the original poster, not to you.
 
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