StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[BingBong43]

I believe that Nintendo will deliver a graphical leap, but not as high as some expect, instead they will focus on running everything in 4K@60. While at least in the first few years, third parties will show the real potential of the Switch 2.
What I'm most looking forward to is seeing what Nintendo will deliver to us in terms of Ray Tracing, even though the power of the Hardware itself is not very great in this aspect, I believe that the classic Nintendo optimization will extract a lot from the T239's dedicated cores.

Totally agree with you. I bet RDR2 and other third party heavy hitters are the titles Nintendo lets shine the most at the outset. After all, the Switch concept is long established and teetering on ancient. Nintendo needs to disrupt the perception of the Switch brand if they intend on marketing a Switch 2 to actually sell devices. A shiny new Mario or Zelda both won't do that and will alienate folks who still have plenty to play on in their Switch library.

Instead they need to let third parties take the mantle and show off the fact that the Switch 2 really is the next generation of handheld gaming. Nintendo can coast out the next few years by patching their existing games and releasing crossgen games that both run on Switch 1 and look gorgeous on Switch 2.

Mark my words we won't see Nintendo themselves release a true Switch 2 exclusive until at least late 2025/2026.

 

[Lancelot]

It has already been proven in the group that it would be possible to run DLSS in parallel to normal rendering, increasing only the input lag but keeping the frame rate high, and even so we have no real data on the rendering time of DLSS on the T239, only estimates which have already proven to be quite flawed. I really think it's very difficult for NVidia to build a SoC whose biggest asset is to use its proprietary upscale technology and still do it in such a way that it doesn't reach 4K@60.

Concurrency still has its limits. Unless we're literally talking about the same old Switch baseline with zero improvements, 4K won't be a thing period. Even light improvements like raytracing are going to keep it from hitting that resolution at 60s consistently, you'd need an untouched Switch game for it to happen.

 

[Estew]

Oh of course with game patches sure. I just meant it would be capable of running games at much better graphical fidelity.

And I'm not saying that Switch 2 will just be a pro. I'm saying that Nintendo's strategy will be to essentially treat it like a pro and drip feed us content that works on both Switch and Switch 2 until they're ready to phase out Switch 1 completely. Only then will Nintendo themselves start releasing games that take full advantage of the Switch 2 hardware.

I fully think Nintendo will let third parties take the reigns on getting folks drawn to the device by making sure more upcoming releases also get their moment on Switch 2, but I also think Nintendo will still back support Switch 1 with all their major titles until at least 2026. I can see a major new Zelda, Mario, or Pokemon title in 2026/2027 being the first game to truly show us what Switch 2 can be done when Nintendo uses it to its full capability. I just don't expect Nintendo to launch the device with those experiences ready to go. I think they mean it when it will be a smooth transition.

Again, I bet crossgen games still have plenty of compelling features and graphical improvements to make them exciting enough as Switch 2 games. I just think Nintendo will fully offer Switch 1 versions of these games for at least the next three years.

Just to clarify, you're saying they should release a new $400 machine, give it only crossgen titles for 3 years which will inevitably either be smaller titles or held back significantly by Switch 1, try to market the Switch 2 by saying "hey, we're updating all of our old games! you know, the uh... the ones you already played? they'll look better now!" and then release the big hitters exclusively for Switch 2? Am I accurately summarizing it? What exactly do you think the Switch 2 versions are going to do? It sounds like you think they'll be completely different games, like DS versions compared to home console versions.

I don't mean this to be rude, because you seem like a genuinely nice and reasonable person so I really hope this doesn't come across that way, but that sounds kind of miserable. Nintendo has certainly shown that the Switch is capable of running some truly stellar games, but they've also shown the console's limitations pretty thoroughly. Three years of it holding back every single Nintendo release - either by design, or by the games literally being held to release as exclusives three years later - would really, really suck.

Totally agree with you. I bet RDR2 and other third party heavy hitters are the titles Nintendo lets shine the most at the outset. After all, the Switch concept is long established and teetering on ancient. Nintendo needs to disrupt the perception of the Switch brand if the intend on marketing a Switch 2 to actually sell devices. A shiny new Mario or Zelda both won't do that and will alienate folks who still have plenty to play on in their Switch library.

Instead they need to let third parties take the mantle and show off the fact that the Switch 2 really is the next generation of handheld gaming. Nintendo can coast out the next few years by patching their existing games and releasing crossgen games that both run on Switch 1 and look gorgeous on Switch 2.

Mark my words we won't see Nintendo themselves release a true Switch 2 exclusive until at least 2026.

...A new exclusive game in series known to push console sales wouldn't push console sales? Right. Yeah. I think that's my cue to bow out. This has gotten a little bit nonsensical.

 

[OctoSplattack]

Have you seen the state of Pokemon lately? Mario Wonder wasn't any more graphically impressive than NSMBU. And TotK is no more beautiful than a 7 almost 8 year old game running on dated hardware. Nintendo has absolutely no time letting graphics take a back seat. I think y'all are severely underestimating the wow factor that will happen once the entire Switch library gets brought up to modern standards and I bet Nintendo doesn't intend to charge as much for this as folks as suggesting. It will likely be THE primary draw to the new device.

Also yes, this device will absolutely be capable of experiences that aren't at all possible on the OG Switch. I'm not saying it won't be. I'm just saying, from a marketing, development, resource, and precedence sense...its likely Nintendo will lean hard on this whole crossgen situation until they are truly ready to retire the Switch 1. Those years will be spent making all the Switch 1 versions of games looks super unappealing compared to their Switch 2 counterparts while also included stuff like online or camera junk or whatever that Switch 1 simply can't do.

I'm just also saying Nintendo is saving the face melting 4k Mario Switch 2 exclusive for a few years yet. I'll happily be wrong but I don't think I am.

I just... don't see why they'd do that. It feels like an easy way to kneecap sales if they just treat it as a Pro for the first two-to-three years. Such a strategy will just tell everyone but the most die-hard fans to just... wait. At the end of the day, Nintendo's own software is the biggest draw to their hardware, and if you tell people that they can still get all the Nintendo experiences they want without having to drop an extra $400-450 for the privilege, then it doesn't matter how many fancy bells and whistles the Switch 2 version has. They'll be content to just chill until a game they really want can only be played on the Switch 2. We're absolutely going to see quite a few crossgen releases for a year or so, but I can't believe in the idea that we won't see any Switch 2 exclusives from Nintendo themselves until 2026 or whatever. You want to have as many reasons as possible for people to buy your new hardware at the jump.

 

[Hermii]

Have you seen the state of Pokemon lately? Mario Wonder wasn't any more graphically impressive than NSMBU. And TotK is no more beautiful than a 7 almost 8 year old game running on dated hardware.

Pokemon shouldn't be taken as a benchmark of anything.

Mario Wonder is definitely more impressive than NSMBU visually, and not just art style. Far more detailed backgrounds and much better animations.

TOTK has some slight visual upgrades, but the real upgrades lie in physics and interactivity.

That's only because the Switch wasn't a jump over the Wii U as it is. They're both in the same ballpark, there isn't any more room to push visuals over the Wii U (and even then, games like Pikmin 4 definitely did). Nintendo platforms have been running at Wii U's ballpark for over a decade now, this will not be the case for the Switch 2, which is the jump that should matter to us right now.

Not entirely true, the Switch is significantly more capable. A generational gap it wasn't though.

 

[LinkURL]

Concurrency still has its limits. Unless we're literally talking about the same old Switch baseline with zero improvements, 4K won't be a thing period. Even light improvements like raytracing are going to keep it from hitting that resolution at 60s consistently, you'd need an untouched Switch game for it to happen.

I disagree with respect.

 

[Lancelot]

Not entirely true, the Switch is significantly more capable. A generational gap it wasn't though.

It was still basically the same thing at raster, features is where it managed to shine. Unlike today, raster used to be everything that matters to the performance of a console, Switch barely registers on there.

 

[Dark Cloud]

If Nintendo wants to wait 3 years before putting their first exclusive on the Switch 2 then they can kiss having a good Gen goodbye. The system will fail.

 

[Goodtwin]

It has already been proven in the group that it would be possible to run DLSS in parallel to normal rendering, increasing only the input lag but keeping the frame rate high, and even so we have no real data on the rendering time of DLSS on the T239, only estimates which have already proven to be quite flawed. I really think it's very difficult for NVidia to build a SoC whose biggest asset is to use its proprietary upscale technology and still do it in such a way that it doesn't reach 4K@60.

I mostly agree, but I am not completely convinced that 4K is a requirement, especially at 60fps. I could see Nintendo being completely fine with 1440p 60fps since that will scale rather well to a 4K TV. It will be a little soft compared to native 4K but still leaps and bounds better image quality than we have gotten with Switch. 4K 30fps is still on the table. With all that said, we did hear that the Zelda BotW demo was 4K 60fps, and if that is true, then we are certainly missing some pertinent information on how DLSS will work with SNG. Whether it be DLSS is running in parallel or simply the DLSS implementation differs in some way allowing it to run faster than it does in the RTX2050 testing that DF did.

 

[LinkURL]

Totally agree with you. I bet RDR2 and other third party heavy hitters are the titles Nintendo lets shine the most at the outset. After all, the Switch concept is long established and teetering on ancient. Nintendo needs to disrupt the perception of the Switch brand if they intend on marketing a Switch 2 to actually sell devices. A shiny new Mario or Zelda both won't do that and will alienate folks who still have plenty to play on in their Switch library.

Instead they need to let third parties take the mantle and show off the fact that the Switch 2 really is the next generation of handheld gaming. Nintendo can coast out the next few years by patching their existing games and releasing crossgen games that both run on Switch 1 and look gorgeous on Switch 2.

Mark my words we won't see Nintendo themselves release a true Switch 2 exclusive until at least late 2025/2026.

I agree with you in parts. I believe that 80% of the catalog from the first years will be crossgen, but Nintendo will keep some specific titles like New Mario 3D, New Mario Kart and the new Monolith game as exclusive to the new gen, a PS5-like strategy.

 

[BingBong43]

That's only because the Switch wasn't a jump over the Wii U as it is. They're both in the same ballpark, there isn't any more room to push visuals over the Wii U (and even then, games like Pikmin 4 definitely did). Nintendo platforms have been running at Wii U's ballpark for over a decade now, this will not be the case for the Switch 2, which is the jump that should matter to us right now.

I'll eat a cookie if I'm wrong.

Just to clarify, you're saying they should release a new $400 machine, give it only crossgen titles for 3 years which will inevitably either be smaller titles or held back significantly by Switch 1, try to market the Switch 2 by saying "hey, we're updating all of our old games! you know, the uh... the ones you already played? they'll look better now!" and then release the big hitters exclusively for Switch 2? Am I accurately summarizing it? What exactly do you think the Switch 2 versions are going to do? It sounds like you think they'll be completely different games, like DS versions compared to home console versions.

I don't mean this to be rude, because you seem like a genuinely nice and reasonable person so I really hope this doesn't come across that way, but that sounds kind of miserable. Nintendo has certainly shown that the Switch is capable of running some truly stellar games, but they've also shown the console's limitations pretty thoroughly. Three years of it holding back every single Nintendo release - either by design, or by the games literally being held to release as exclusives three years later - would really, really suck.

...A new exclusive game in series known to push console sales wouldn't push console sales? Right. Yeah. I think that's my cue to bow out. This has gotten a little bit nonsensical.

I think you're underestimating just how much better Switch 1 games will look on Switch 2.

Also I think you're underestimating the amount of difference I expect there to be in these hypothetical crossgen games. I don't expect Nintendo to necessarily "hold back" on Switch 2 titles just to keep Switch 1 owners happy. I just fully expect to play all sides so they come out on top.

I bet all their major releases come out on both devices. I bet Switch 2 versions are far superior to the Switch 1 versions almost to the point that they might as well be different games. They game I referenced as an example of that isn't allowed to be discussed here but surely you can imagine the differences between Switch versions and PS5 versions of games and see that Nintendo releasing the next Mario on both Switch 1 and 2 could come with similar differences and drawbacks. That's all I meant. I could also see Nintendo implementing some sort of Miiverse sequel in the Switch 2 UI and any Switch 1 version simply wouldn't be able to take advantage of stuff like that.

Then yes, I'm saying that when Nintendo fully intends to retire the Switch 1 somewhere in 2026/27 they will fully lean into the entire capabilities of the Switch 2 hardware. I'm not necessarily saying they won't for the Switch 2 versions of some of those crossgen games, but at that point maybe Nintendo develops games that exclusively center themselves around the gimmick or whatever. At that point making games with the OG Switch in mind won't be a concern and the games coming out will truly feel like Switch 2 exclusives.

 

[Hermii]

Until we seen a real world example of DLSS concurrency running, we should probably pretend it doesn't exist imo.

 

[BingBong43]

I agree with you in parts. I believe that 80% of the catalog from the first years will be crossgen, but Nintendo will keep some specific titles like New Mario 3D, New Mario Kart and the new Monolith game as exclusive to the new gen, a PS5-like strategy.

I think new Mario will be cross gen with the Switch 2 version being overwhelmingly more appealing and enticing. It'll absolutely be a major draw for the system but I feel Nintendo will also play it safe and release a Switch 1 version as well. There's just not enough of an install base on the new device for a new 3D Mario in 2024.

New Mario Kart will be Switch 2 exclusive and its one of the first titles I expect to hear about in 2025. I bet we could see a new Monolith Soft game teased in late 2024 for release in 2025 and it will not be crossgen.

All other games like Peach, Pokemon, Metroid, Kirby, 2D Zelda, that rumored 3D DK, and just about anything else first party I fully expect to see Switch 1 versions until summer 2025. In fact I bet the B/W remakes we're due to get around that time will be the last major crossgen Nintendo title.

 

[Lancelot]

I'll eat a cookie if I'm wrong.

I think you're underestimating just how much better Switch 1 games will look on Switch 2.

Also I think you're underestimating the amount of difference I expect their to be in these hypothetical crossgen games. I don't expect Nintendo to necessarily "hold back" on Switch 2 titles just to keep Switch 1 owners happy. I just fully expect to play all sides so they come out on top.

I bet all their major releases come out on both devices. I bet Switch 2 versions are far superior to the Switch 1 versions almost to the point that they might as well be different games. They game I referenced as an example of that isn't allowed to be discussed here but surely you can imagine the differences between Switch versions and PS5 versions of games and see that Nintendo releasing the next Mario on both Switch 1 and 2 could come with similar differences and drawbacks. That's all I meant. I could also see Nintendo implementing some sort of Miiverse sequel in the Switch 2 UI and any Switch 1 version simply wouldn't be able to take advantage of stuff like that.

Then yes, I'm saying that when Nintendo fully intends to retire the Switch 1 somewhere in 2026/27 they will fully lean into the entire capabilities of the Switch 2 hardware. I'm not necessarily saying they won't for the Switch 2 versions of some of those crossgen games, but at that point maybe Nintendo develops games that exclusively center themselves around the gimmick or whatever. At that point making games with the OG Switch in mind won't be a concern and the games coming out will truly feel like Switch 2 exclusives.

If Nintendo first party go on with it, i'm afraid mesh shaders alone will make your idea of two different versions impossible.

 

[Hocot8]

when people talk about cross-gen I feel like they forget that the next switch is Nintendo's money maker for the rest of the decade. That's a long term thing. The goal going into the launch of the switch 2 is to make the switch 2 more successful. At the end of the day Nintendo's mindset should be to get those 130M switch owners to buy their new console to play THEIR games.

Some of their low tier games or games meant for the Switch, like MP4, will be cross-gen but something like the next Mario game is going to be (and should be) exclusive to the switch 2.

People ain't buying Nintendo consoles for 3rd party games. 3rd party games are just the icing on the cake. Doom, The Witcher 3, Skyrim were icing on the wonderful cake that was the Switch early in it's life. It did not make the switch good, it just made it a little bit better. Nintendo is not like Sony where they can ride on the coattails of 3rd party games. Massive difference in the 2 brands.

I think new Mario will be cross gen with the Switch 2 version being overwhelmingly more appealing and enticing. It'll absolutely be a major draw for the system but I feel Nintendo will also play it safe and release a Switch 1 version as well. There's just not enough of an install base for a new 3D Mario in 2024.

New Mario Kart will be Switch 2 exclusive and its one of the first titles I expect to hear about in 2025. I bet we could see a new Monolith Soft game teased in late 2024 for release in 2025 and it will not be crossgen.

All other games like Peach, Pokemon, Metroid, Kirby, 2D Zelda, that rumored 3D DK, and just about anything else first party I fully expect to see Switch 1 versions until summer 2025. In fact I bet the B/W remakes we're due to get around that time will be the last major crossgen Nintendo title.

bruh install base doesn't matter when you have a evergreen title lmao. Did BoTW have a big install base lol? And last I checked Pokemon leaks the B/W remakes are due this year but we'll see in February.

 

[yusufied]

This won't be an all or nothing thing for Nintendo. They already confirmed we're going to get new games for the original Switch. There will be a handful of less demanding titles and titles that were already far enough along in development that will release for Switch. I almost guarantee the next Pokémon game will release on last gen hardware just like B/W 2 and Ultra Sun/Moon did at the time. But I do think the vast majority of games will move over to the next generation hardware.

 

[Giancarlo]

Corporations don't think in such whimsical ways. They aren't gonna worry about it seeming too light or too cheap.

Still, doesn't make sense why you would think Nintendo would make it heavier and bigger than a regular Switch with screen, which sounds exactly like what you were suggesting. I'm sorry, but there was barely any logic used.

please Nintendo dont make Switch sucessor heavier to hold, even Switch hurt my hands after playing for extended period of time

 

[LinkURL]

I think new Mario will be cross gen with the Switch 2 version being overwhelmingly more appealing and enticing. It'll absolutely be a major draw for the system but I feel Nintendo will also play it safe and release a Switch 1 version as well. There's just not enough of an install base on the new device for a new 3D Mario in 2024.

New Mario Kart will be Switch 2 exclusive and its one of the first titles I expect to hear about in 2025. I bet we could see a new Monolith Soft game teased in late 2024 for release in 2025 and it will not be crossgen.

All other games like Peach, Pokemon, Metroid, Kirby, 2D Zelda, that rumored 3D DK, and just about anything else first party I fully expect to see Switch 1 versions until summer 2025. In fact I bet the B/W remakes we're due to get around that time will be the last major crossgen Nintendo title.

I believe that the new 3D Mario would be exclusive, I agree with the argument that the installed base will be low in the first year, but 3D Marios always have a long sales life. I'm more inclined to believe that Nintendo will prefer to tank the not-so-high sales at the beginning, to create more demand for the new console in the long term, in addition to preventing most players' first experience from being frustrating playing on outdated hardware. .
I also think that all the other games you mentioned will be crossplay, with the main ones being DK 2D, Princess Peach, Metroid Prime 4 and Pokémon Lets Go Johto (BW remake should only come in the next generation of Pokémon).

 

[dsm]

Have you seen the state of Pokemon lately? Mario Wonder wasn't any more graphically impressive than NSMBU. And TotK is no more beautiful than a 7 almost 8 year old game running on dated hardware. Nintendo has absolutely no problem letting graphics take a back seat. I think y'all are severely underestimating the wow factor that will happen once the entire Switch library gets brought up to modern standards and I bet Nintendo doesn't intend to charge as much for this as folks as suggesting. It will likely be THE primary draw to the new device.

Also yes, this device will absolutely be capable of experiences that aren't at all possible on the OG Switch. I'm not saying it won't be. I'm just saying, from a marketing, development, resource, and precedence sense...its likely Nintendo will lean hard on this whole crossgen situation until they are truly ready to retire the Switch 1. Those years will be spent making all the Switch 1 versions of games looks super unappealing compared to their Switch 2 counterparts while also including stuff like online or camera junk or whatever that Switch 1 simply can't do.

I'm just also saying Nintendo is saving the face melting 4k Mario Switch 2 exclusive for a few years yet. I'll happily be wrong but I don't think I am.

The switch 1 to switch 2 power/tech jump will be much higher that wii u to switch.

It doesn't make any kind of sense to release a new console and just treat it like a slightly better switch for a couple years. Who would buy this? Why would I spend 400$ just for slightly higher fps and resolution? Why, if I can play the same games on my original switch without spending that money? It doesn't make sense to release a pro model this late in the switch's lifespan (and that's why Nintendo backtracked on that).

 

[BingBong43]

If Nintendo first party go on with it, i'm afraid mesh shaders alone will make your idea of two different versions impossible.

We've already seen vast improvements that Nintendo can produce with using Switch titles as the baseline.

If all Nintendo continued to do for the next three years (and this is fully what I expect) is develop Nintendo Switch games and then take the Switch games and optimize and improve them for new hardware, I think we're still in for some gorgeous games that will more than satisfy the next two to three years of customers. And then yeah, it'll be more powerful than a Steam Deck so third parties will be able to really shine over that time period too.

I may be wrong and perhaps Nintendo does have some awesome new Mario up their sleeve that will only be possible on Switch 2, but I just have a feeling I can totally see them developing Odyssey 2 for Switch and then releasing a gorgeous Switch 2 version that is just a ported and improved version of the Switch title.

 

[Goodtwin]

Too mech emphasis is being put on how SNG will stack up against the current gen consoles despite the fact that Switch really didn't stack up that well against the PS4/X1 and still went on to sell over 130 million units to date. The next Mario Kart will be insanely popular regardless if its 4K, 1440p or even a somewhat disappointing 1080p (very unlikely). SNG is a successor to Switch and as long as the upgrade over Switch is significant that is what matters the most. Not many consumers will look at SNG as a replacement/alternative to the PS5 or Series consoles. What makes Switch a desirable product is different from the other consoles. Switch never had anything close to third party software parity with PS4/X1, and yet it is on pace to be in one of the top three best selling consoles of all time, with a shot at taking the top spot.

 

[Giancarlo]

This won't be an all or nothing thing for Nintendo. They already confirmed we're going to get new games for the original Switch. There will be a handful of less demanding titles and titles that were already far enough along in development that will release for Switch. I almost guarantee the next Pokémon game will release on last gen hardware just like B/W 2 and Ultra Sun/Moon did at the time. But I do think the vast majority of games will move over to the next generation hardware.

as indicated by the dry barren septembre Direct, most of Nintendo major internal teams/subsidiaries, is already working on games for the Switch sucessor.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I believe that the new 3D Mario would be exclusive, I agree with the argument that the installed base will be low in the first year, but 3D Marios always have a long sales life. I'm more inclined to believe that Nintendo will prefer to tank the not-so-high sales at the beginning, to create more demand for the new console in the long term, in addition to preventing most players' first experience from being frustrating playing on outdated hardware. .
I also think that all the other games you mentioned will be crossplay, with the main ones being DK 2D, Princess Peach, Metroid Prime 4 and Pokémon Lets Go Johto (BW remake should only come in the next generation of Pokémon).

I’m hoping I’m misunderstanding this part.

 

[LinkURL]

The switch 1 to switch 2 power/tech jump will be much higher that wii u to switch.

It doesn't make any kind of sense to release a new console and just treat it like a slightly better switch for a couple years. Who would buy this? Why would I spend 400$ just for slightly higher fps and resolution? Why, if I can play the same games on my original switch without spending that money? It doesn't make sense to release a pro model this late in the switch's lifespan (and that's why Nintendo backtracked on that).

Ask the same to all PS5 and XBox Series owners.

 

[ILikeFeet]

how about something more relevant, la?

 

[LinkURL]

I’m hoping I’m misunderstanding this part.

What is your interpretation?

 

[BingBong43]

The switch 1 to switch 2 power/tech jump will be much higher that wii u to switch.

It doesn't make any kind of sense to release a new console and just treat it like a slightly better switch for a couple years. Who would buy this? Why would I spend 400$ just for slightly higher fps and resolution? Why, if I can play the same games on my original switch without spending that money? It doesn't make sense to release a pro model this late in the switch's lifespan (and that's why Nintendo backtracked on that).

I think you're underestimating the amount of people clamoring for a Switch that runs their games more capably. Even BotW, a launch title, still stutters and isn't fully smooth to play over 7 years later. We never got a mid life refresh of Switch hardware that ran games better and that's both out of character for Nintendo and a damn shame. It's borderline an embarrassment at this point.

If the Switch 2 is out of the box a device that plays all of the Switch library in its best performance, most Switch 1 games get free graphical upgrades to run at much higher resolutions with better textures and possibly even lighting effects, and a steady pipeline of crossgen games continues to come out for it as if its just as supported as the current Switch, and it possibly comes with gimmicks and features simply not possible on the Switch 1, AND eventually even better games that really take full advantage of its hardware are just a few short years out meanwhile tons of third party games that DO take advantage of the legroom are constantly releasing.....where again is the problem?

I think some of y'all really don't consider the full scope of your expectations within the context of the industry and historical precedent. Top of the line graphics have almost never been Nintendo's priority. DLSS, variable resolution and framerate improvements, and better textures alone are going to let Nintendo coast even further on this philosophy meanwhile Switch 2 will finally satisfy third parties that need more headroom. That and Nintendo still has an 132 million user install base to contend with and sell to in an ever unstable world market. Courting and maintaining current Switch owners will be Nintendo's primary goal and I expect their newest device and strategy to demonstrate that completely.

 

[darthdiablo]

What is your interpretation?

You might have a typo in your other comment. Did you mean to say you are more inclined to believe Nintendo would prefer to NOT tank not-so-high sales at the beginning?

 

[Lancelot]

We've already seen vast improvements that Nintendo can produce with using Switch titles as the baseline.

If all Nintendo continued to do for the next three years (and this is fully what I expect) is develop Nintendo Switch games and then take the Switch games and optimize and improve them for new hardware, I think we're still in for some gorgeous games that will more than satisfy the next two to three years of customers. And then yeah, it'll be more powerful than a Steam Deck so third parties will be able to really shine over that time period too.

I may be wrong and perhaps Nintendo does have some awesome new Mario up their sleeve that will only be possible on Switch 2, but I just have a feeling I can totally see them developing Odyssey 2 for Switch and then releasing a gorgeous Switch 2 version that is just a ported and improved version of the Switch title.

I don't think you understand the inner workings for this to work in particular, but basically... The moment their first party studios embrace mesh shaders (which they will, it's free performance), the amount of work to get these games working on Switch 1 hardware gets significantly higher and beyond the specs themselves. Switch 2 (T239) isn't just a more powerful Switch, it's more of a paradigm shift for Nintendo's development pipeline in presumably the same form factor. They still didn't go on with this SoC because Nvidia imposed it on them, but because they literally wanted to keep in mind... Hence, a custom chip. All of the impediments you're seeing here (backwards compatibility included) aren't a byproduct of it merely being a generational leap, Nintendo explicitly wanted everything this chip is currently known to have and everything it can do. Again, you just don't approve to develop a chip this fundamentally different to your predecessor only to hold it back with inefficiencies and incompatibilities, this is not how a hardware manufacturer thinks.

 

[Giancarlo]

If Nintendo wants to wait 3 years before putting their first exclusive on the Switch 2 then they can kiss having a good Gen goodbye. The system will fail.

PS5 did this and yet the console is a success

 

[BingBong43]

I don't think you understand the inner workings for this to work in particular, but basically... The moment their first party studios embrace mesh shaders (which they will, it's free performance), the amount of work to get these games working on Switch 1 hardware gets significantly higher and beyond the specs themselves. Switch 2 (T239) isn't just a more powerful Switch, it's more of a paradigm shift for Nintendo's development pipeline in presumably the same form factor. They still didn't go on with this SoC because Nvidia imposed it on them, but because they literally wanted to keep in mind... Hence, a custom chip. All of the impediments you're seeing here (backwards compatibility included) aren't a byproduct of it merely being a generational leap, Nintendo explicitly wanted everything this chip is currently known to have and everything it can do. Again, you just don't approve to develop a chip this fundamentally different to your predecessor only to hold it back with inefficiencies and incompatibilities, this is not a hardware manufacturer thinks.

Whose to say Nintendo couldn't release a version of the next 3D Mario on Switch 1 and a version with mesh shaders on Switch 2?

Why couldn't fully complete and release ready Switch games be then further improved with features exclusive to Switch 2 to show off what Switch 2 can do?

 

[ILikeFeet]

PS5 did this and yet the console is a success

but that also means expecting Nintendo to use Sony's playbook

 

[BingBong43]

but that also means expecting Nintendo to use Sony's playbook

I think it's less of a playbook and more just the state of the industry post-COVID. Better to refresh hardware in waves to maintain demand and grapple with chip shortage meanwhile your software can take its time playing catch up because lots of folks really are satisfied with souped-up current-gen games with shinier graphics and smoother performance.

 

[Switcharoo]

I think it's less of a playbook and more just the state of the industry post-COVID. Better to refresh hardware in waves to maintain demand and grapple with chip shortage meanwhile your software can take its time playing catch up because lots of folks really are satisfied with souped up current gen games with shinier graphics and smoother performance.

Chip shortage? What chip shortage?

 

[Lancelot]

Whose to say Nintendo couldn't release a version of the next 3D Mario on Switch 1 and a version with mesh shaders on Switch 2?

Why couldn't fully complete and release ready Switch games be then further improved with features exclusive to Switch 2 to show off what Switch 2 can do?

Cuz it's not cost effective when the power gap is literally this huge, mesh shaders will just make it even bigger. Developing two different games, not versions are you saying, is not a good idea in this day and age. There's a reason no one else does it, and why they magically left the scene last gen. Like it or not, you're going to hold back those Switch 2 games like hell if they're still supporting the original Switch, that's just how game development works... Not how you want it to work like.

 

[bloopland33]

PS5 did this and yet the console is a success

Nah, they had Demon's Souls day one, Returnal six months later, and Rift Apart seven months later, as far as exclusives go.

 

[BDGAME]

Nintendo Direct - Archive - Nintendo Official Site

The online home for exclusive Nintendo news — broadcast directly to you, the player.

www.nintendo.com

The first Nintendo direct in 2021, 2022 and 2023 is in February. I can't imagine they doing a Direct that month and don't talk nothing about switch 2. So, I can imagine 4 possibilities:

1 - They pre-announce the Switch 2 in January with a full blow revelation in February
2 - They will make a pre-announce that the console will be reveled soon in that Direct, show some crossgen games, but not the console, that will be full reveal next month.
3 - They will not do a Direct in February for the first time and make a full announce and Direct in Mach.
4 - They will do a normal Direct in February, Switch 1 only, what indicate that Switch 2 will probably be revealed only months away, maybe even on second half of the year.

 

[Jake]

Too mech emphasis is being put on how SNG will stack up against the current gen consoles despite the fact that Switch really didn't stack up that well against the PS4/X1 and still went on to sell over 130 million units to date. The next Mario Kart will be insanely popular regardless if its 4K, 1440p or even a somewhat disappointing 1080p (very unlikely). SNG is a successor to Switch and as long as the upgrade over Switch is significant that is what matters the most. Not many consumers will look at SNG as a replacement/alternative to the PS5 or Series consoles. What makes Switch a desirable product is different from the other consoles. Switch never had anything close to third party software parity with PS4/X1, and yet it is on pace to be in one of the top three best selling consoles of all time, with a shot at taking the top spot.

Right, I‘m one of those people who believes Nintendo consoles should be seen as companions/secondary consoles for PlayStation and Xbox owners. I have a Switch and an Xbox Series X. I use my Switch for Nintendo exclusives like Mario and Splatoon and some third party games if they run well on there like Sonic Superstars for example. I use my Xbox for Microsoft exclusives like Forza Motorsport and any third party games that either don’t run that well on Switch or are not on Switch. As far as sales go, the Switch is currently the third best selling gaming system ever and has a good chance of catching up to the DS and PS2 if Nintendo continues to support it for 2-3 years alongside Switch 2.

 

[Hosermess]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

Gave you a Yeah! solely because you included the patent link - but it deserves two because of the connection you made - which has potential. If that facecover isn't just flatly rounded like those patent illustrations, but has ergonomic curves so when it's attached to the back it's makes the Switch 2 more comfortable to hold, that's a win (drawback is it would not look as sleek - and the shoulder buttons would be need to be different than current Switch). It could even have tabs/slots on the interior to hold game cartridges etc. Like I said, there's potential.

I’m hoping I’m misunderstanding this part.

is it considered a smooth transition if it continues the downward slide? lol

 

[Langstonboy]

PS5 did this and yet the console is a success

No there were a few exclusive games for Ps5 in 2020-2022.

 

[Giancarlo]

but that also means expecting Nintendo to use Sony's playbook

partly yes, but i think Nintendo should keeping suporting Nintendo Switch and slowy kill it software output, so in a way, have a slowy gradual shift for ir next console, not kill Switch suport

 

[Jake]

Nintendo Direct - Archive - Nintendo Official Site

The online home for exclusive Nintendo news — broadcast directly to you, the player.

www.nintendo.com

The first Nintendo direct in 2021, 2022 and 2023 is in February. I can't imagine they doing a Direct that month and don't talk nothing about switch 2. So, I can imagine 4 possibilities:

1 - They pre-announce the Switch 2 in January with a full blow revelation in February
2 - They will make a pre-announce that the console will be reveled soon in that Direct, show some crossgen games, but not the console, that will be full reveal next month.
3 - They will not do a Direct in February for the first time and make a full announce and Direct in Mach.
4 - They will do a normal Direct in February, Switch 1 only, what indicate that Switch 2 will probably be revealed only months away, maybe even on second half of the year.

I’m on Team Q1 announcement, Q2 launch.

 

[Tulipe]

PS5 did this and yet the console is a success

Until now, the success of Sony's consoles has always been due to third parties like Rockstar, EA and Activision, coupled with the "Playstation" brand, which is why the console sells even without exclusivity.

It's a shame that at the moment there's absolutely no reason to buy a PS5 or a series X, given that even 3 years after release there really isn't even 1 big exclusive that makes you say "Ok now we're on next gen".

Nintendo, because of their limited power on the console, can't rely on third parties to feed their console with their big exclusives, so Nintendo has to rely first and foremost on their exclusives.
Nintendo has to show third parties that it's worth porting first.
That's why I'm delighted at the idea of Nintendo catching up a little in terms of power.

 

[Dark Cloud]

partly yes, but i think Nintendo should keeping suporting Nintendo Switch and slowy kill it software output, so in a way, have a slowy gradual shift for ir next console, not kill Switch suport

Not a single person has said Switch support should die. Everyone believes it will get games from Nintendo for a couple more years

 

[BingBong43]

Cuz it's not cost effective when the power gap is literally this huge. Developing two different games, not versions are you saying, is not a good idea in this day and age. There's a reason no one else does it, and why they magically left the scene last gen. Like it or not, you're going to hold back those Switch 2 games like hell if they're still supporting the original Switch, that's just how game development works... Not how you want it to work like.

Again, I'm not saying this period of having two different version will last very long. Two to three years tops. And I bet the Switch 1 simply just keeps getting games released for it that just automatically run on Switch 2 until 2027 or so.

So basically I think the crossgen period starts when Switch 2 releases this year. I bet all of Nintendo's major first party titles get a Switch 1 version until at least holiday 2025. I fully think in that meantime that all these crossgen games will absolutely get graphics and features that otherwise won't be possible on Switch 1. They will be fully better games on Switch 2. Somewhere around 2025ish is when Nintendo will stop releasing major games for Switch 1 but I imagine indies and third parties will still be releasing for it here or there.

 

[gnetc]

Did Nate say he was uploading this week or next week?

 

[Langstonboy]

Again, I'm not saying this period of having two different version will last very long. Two to three years tops. And I bet the Switch 1 simply just keeps getting games released for it that just automatically run on Switch 2 until 2027 or so.

So basically I think the crossgen period starts when Switch 2 releases this year. I bet all of Nintendo's major first party titles get a Switch 1 version until at least holiday 2025. I fully think in that meantime that all these crossgen games will absolutely get graphics and features that otherwise won't be possible on Switch 1. They will be fully better games on Switch 2. Somewhere around 2025ish is when Nintendo will stop releasing major games for Switch 1 but I imagine indies and third parties will still be releasing for it here or there.

Still too much for anything that isn’t a aa game like Peach or Pokémon that isn’t gen 10.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Did Nate say he was uploading this week or next week?

 

[Pokemaniac]

I'll eat a cookie if I'm wrong.

I think you're underestimating just how much better Switch 1 games will look on Switch 2.

Also I think you're underestimating the amount of difference I expect there to be in these hypothetical crossgen games. I don't expect Nintendo to necessarily "hold back" on Switch 2 titles just to keep Switch 1 owners happy. I just fully expect to play all sides so they come out on top.

I bet all their major releases come out on both devices. I bet Switch 2 versions are far superior to the Switch 1 versions almost to the point that they might as well be different games. They game I referenced as an example of that isn't allowed to be discussed here but surely you can imagine the differences between Switch versions and PS5 versions of games and see that Nintendo releasing the next Mario on both Switch 1 and 2 could come with similar differences and drawbacks. That's all I meant. I could also see Nintendo implementing some sort of Miiverse sequel in the Switch 2 UI and any Switch 1 version simply wouldn't be able to take advantage of stuff like that.

Then yes, I'm saying that when Nintendo fully intends to retire the Switch 1 somewhere in 2026/27 they will fully lean into the entire capabilities of the Switch 2 hardware. I'm not necessarily saying they won't for the Switch 2 versions of some of those crossgen games, but at that point maybe Nintendo develops games that exclusively center themselves around the gimmick or whatever. At that point making games with the OG Switch in mind won't be a concern and the games coming out will truly feel like Switch 2 exclusives.

I think you're vastly overestimating what the new hardware is going to be able to do for Switch 1 games. Nintendo is not going to heavily compromise the experience in the Switch 1 version of a game just to try to make the Switch 2 version look better. There's unlikely to be much difference beyond higher resolution/performance and nonessential use of new hardware features in the vast majority of cases.

Nintendo will definitely keep publishing Switch 1 games for a while longer, but that's not the only stuff they'll be publishing.

 

[BingBong43]

If Nintendo wants to wait 3 years before putting their first exclusive on the Switch 2 then they can kiss having a good Gen goodbye. The system will fail.

But that's the thing, all the crossgen games will still feel like Switch 2 exclusives. Hell, with the fact that Switch games can finally properly run in 4K and 60FPS it'll feel like the Switch 2 is the answer we've been waiting for for so long.

It's already well documented that running Switch games on better, more capable hardware can quickly lead to 4K output at stable 60FPS. If all the crossgen game automatically do that and have other tricks to look even better, what would be the problem? Also you'd be getting games like RDR2 and possibly Yakuza alongside these beautiful crossgens. Also all your old Switch games that used to run like ass are suddenly gorgeous and butter smooth.

Also Nintendo managed to keep the device to only $50 MSRP more than the current Switch OLED.

Tell me again how these won't sell like hotcakes? You'll still get your new Zeldas and Marios, I just don't think they'll be made without Switch 1 in mind for just a few more years and honestly for the reasons I stated above that is fine.