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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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brainchild said:
Since you all love to talk about Orin so much, did you ever consider getting a kit?

You can get one here:

developer.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Jetson Orin

Next-level AI performance for next-gen robotics.
developer.nvidia.com

I think it would be great if most of you participating in this thread registered as NVIDIA developers and start working with actual hardware, even if you don't plan on actually publishing anything. You will have comprehensive exposure to a legitimate development environment and gain useful experience.
Click to expand...
My main problem is getting the money to buy one XD
 
barruma said:
Hi gents,
Long time lurking but first time posting. I dont believe this has been discussed before, apologies if it did, but do we have any indication that nvn or nvn2 are exclusive to Nintendo? Is it possible that Nvidia builds these API's for a broader use than just Nintendo games?
Love reading your posts btw, Switch 2/Pro/Advance cant be here soon enough :)
Click to expand...
Nvn (in my headcanon it means Nvidia Nintendo ) is an exclusive API for Nintendo, no doubt.

Vulcan and directx are going perfectly good alternatives.
 
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Dakhil said:
Click to expand...

Excited for this, but confused on the timing. Nate seemed to imply yesterday that no new podcast had been recorded because he needed to verify some things first.

Maybe he was able to quickly verify that information and they're recording today?
 
brainchild said:
Since you all love to talk about Orin so much, did you ever consider getting a kit?

You can get one here:

developer.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Jetson Orin

Next-level AI performance for next-gen robotics.
developer.nvidia.com

I think it would be great if most of you participating in this thread registered as NVIDIA developers and start working with actual hardware, even if you don't plan on actually publishing anything. You will have comprehensive exposure to a legitimate development environment and gain useful experience.
Click to expand...
I would, but at my skill level, it's quite an expensive piece of kit, and I'd be better served with a used phone. I want to try my hand at some mobile oriented game development and I'd love to try that out using a Jetson board, but I'm just not there yet
 
Sol said:
Excited for this, but confused on the timing. Nate seemed to imply yesterday that no new podcast had been recorded because he needed to verify some things first.

Maybe he was able to quickly verify that information and they're recording today?
Click to expand...
I think it’s more likely the new podcast will not dicuss whatever new information Nate is digging up.

Will probably just be a recap of the nvidia leak, and other general news.
 
brainchild said:
Since you all love to talk about Orin so much, did you ever consider getting a kit?

You can get one here:

developer.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Jetson Orin

Next-level AI performance for next-gen robotics.
developer.nvidia.com

I think it would be great if most of you participating in this thread registered as NVIDIA developers and start working with actual hardware, even if you don't plan on actually publishing anything. You will have comprehensive exposure to a legitimate development environment and gain useful experience.
Click to expand...
Honestly I've been tempted to pick one up, but I can't really justify spending that kind of money on what's functionally a hobby. Besides, I already have a desktop with an Ampere GPU, and a Linux install with everything set up for hobbyist ML development, so I should really make more use of that before I buy any more hardware I don't need.
 
barruma said:
Hi gents,
Long time lurking but first time posting. I dont believe this has been discussed before, apologies if it did, but do we have any indication that nvn or nvn2 are exclusive to Nintendo? Is it possible that Nvidia builds these API's for a broader use than just Nintendo games?
Love reading your posts btw, Switch 2/Pro/Advance cant be here soon enough :)
Click to expand...
Hi same as you long time lurker since the old place.
Are you coming from the Supermetaldave video?
Because if you listen correctly I think he is contradicting himself without knowing. He says Nvidia has provided Orin SDK and that NVN files were discovered in it but we already know Orin and Drake are very related. So Orin having NVN files is not that bizarre or implying NVN is not only used Nintendo products. Since Orin could be some kind of Drake prototype and support NVN/NVN2. So he is rooting for the Orin/Drake narrative without knowing while for some reason is still very tied to AMD/FSR.
Apart from this Orin SDK and Nintendo products I dont know if NVN/NVN2 has been discovered elsewhere.
 
Dakhil said:
Click to expand...


The Steam Deck is an awesome piece of kit. I am in the order que with the 512gb model but this makes me even more sad that Nintendo won't budge with new hardware at all and I still believe we could be multiple years from new Nintendo hardware. I hope I'm wrong but I read this thread every day and the evidence is sketchy at best. Mostly just details on Nvidia's next mobile set and insiders claiming it's coming. Not enough evidence for me. Especially since we've all been having this conversation since 2018. It's always just "Believe me it's coming" every single year. I guess one of these years it will be right just as a clock always eventually hits 12. I want new Nintendo hardware badly though lol. Switch is such a mediocre experience on my 65' 4K OLED LG C9 TV.
 
barruma said:
Hi gents,
Long time lurking but first time posting. I dont believe this has been discussed before, apologies if it did, but do we have any indication that nvn or nvn2 are exclusive to Nintendo? Is it possible that Nvidia builds these API's for a broader use than just Nintendo games?
Love reading your posts btw, Switch 2/Pro/Advance cant be here soon enough :)
Click to expand...
NVN is designed to run on the Switch (and NVN2 specifically on Drake). It only runs on other platforms to the extent they can be made to behave like the target NX hardware. Even when running on other platforms, the hardware constants from TX1/Drake are expected to be met.

"NVN is a 3D graphics API that can be used to develop applications that run on the NX platform."

"Reference implementation on non-NX platforms: Provide a reference implementation that can be used on Microsoft Windows with NVIDIA GPUs and behaves as closely as possible to the NX implementation."

"A second-generation Maxwell GPU (e.g., GeForce GTX 960, 970, 980) is recommended, because it provides nearly all the NVN API functionality supported by the NX processor." (NVN1) / "Ampere-based GPUs are more preferable since they are more compatible with the NX implementation." (NVN2)
 
Hermii said:
I think it’s more likely the new podcast will not dicuss whatever new information Nate is digging up.

Will probably just be a recap of the nvidia leak, and other general news.
Click to expand...

He said though that such a discussion would be "ill-advised" without investigating this new information, which apparently relates to the leak.
 
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LiC said:
dog-chasing-tail-19.gif
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Got it!
 
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Sol said:
Excited for this, but confused on the timing. Nate seemed to imply yesterday that no new podcast had been recorded because he needed to verify some things first.

Maybe he was able to quickly verify that information and they're recording today?
Click to expand...
He can record a podcast and have it not contain Drake info. There’s other stuff to talk about, right? @NateDrake
 
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LiC said:
NVN is designed to run on the Switch (and NVN2 specifically on Drake). It only runs on other platforms to the extent they can be made to behave like the target NX hardware. Even when running on other platforms, the hardware constants from TX1/Drake are expected to be met.

"NVN is a 3D graphics API that can be used to develop applications that run on the NX platform."

"Reference implementation on non-NX platforms: Provide a reference implementation that can be used on Microsoft Windows with NVIDIA GPUs and behaves as closely as possible to the NX implementation."

"A second-generation Maxwell GPU (e.g., GeForce GTX 960, 970, 980) is recommended, because it provides nearly all the NVN API functionality supported by the NX processor." (NVN1) / "Ampere-based GPUs are more preferable since they are more compatible with the NX implementation." (NVN2)
Click to expand...
This is correct.

NVN is a proprietary API exclusive to Nintendo. The mention of NVN/NVN2 for Windows/PC is referring to a development tool which essentially acts as a 'Virtual Switch'. Any implication that NVN is for non-Nintendo hardware is wrong.

And to be clear: I'm not running anything on NVN2/Pro/Switch2/Switch4K or whatever you want to call it until I complete an investigation concerning this recent information.
 
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KMStwo said:
He says Nvidia has provided Orin SDK and that NVN files were discovered in it
Click to expand...
Where's this coming from?

Regardless though, NVN2 is targeting HOS (Switch's Horizon OS) and GA10F. There are numerous code comments explicitly about how features need to be implemented in order to work on the NX hardware; sections that are spelled out like "Windows/Linux can get away with doing X, but we'll need to do Y for HOS." And plenty of references to "Hovi," aka Nintendo.

The intent behind NVN2's development is crystal clear.
 
What we know for sure:

T239 “Drake” has the NVN2 API which is for Nintendo only. It has 12SM’s (1536 CUDA Cores) and DLSS.

I think some have speculated that based on some of the calls the api made in the leak, the product is near complete or ready for tape out.

Speculation is holiday 2022 or Q1 2023.
 
10k said:
What we know for sure:

T239 “Drake” has the NVN2 API which is for Nintendo only. It has 12SM’s (1536 CUDA Cores) and DLSS.

I think some have speculated that based on some of the calls the api made in the leak, the product is near complete or ready for tape out.

Speculation is holiday 2022 or Q1 2023.
Click to expand...
Exactly this.

I believe it will be Holiday 2022.

Remember obly Hardcore fans will get a Switch Pro for Zelda BOTW2, and Nintendo knows this. So it will be brought to market asap, no waiting for specific games…
 
I wonder how the next Switch will compare versus Steam Deck because that DF video is incredibly impressive. I imagine if there’s optimisation on both UE5 and Steam Deck it could run downscaled current gen AAA UE5 games.
 
Polygon said:
I wonder how the next Switch will compare versus Steam Deck because that DF video is incredibly impressive. I imagine if there’s optimisation on both UE5 and Steam Deck it could run downscaled current gen AAA UE5 games.
Click to expand...
I'm expcting docked to be on par with an uncapped Steam Deck. though games should run better than the video since Drake will have dedicated development and better RT
 
Polygon said:
I wonder how the next Switch will compare versus Steam Deck because that DF video is incredibly impressive. I imagine if there’s optimisation on both UE5 and Steam Deck it could run downscaled current gen AAA UE5 games.
Click to expand...
1536 CUDA cores of ampere is gonna make it better than steam deck docked when you apply dlss. Even undocked might surpass it. Will definitely have better battery life. What remains to be seen is what node it will be on. I speculate 5nm cause 12 SM’s on 8nm is big.
 
LiC said:
Where's this coming from?
Click to expand...

He says "it is a couple of screenshots from the SDK that Nvidia recently sent out to developers back when they were sharing that information online on their servers and for obvious reasons i'm not gonna be sharing any links in the description for anything here..." and he says "this information comes from their latest Orin development SDK that they've been sending out and testing to various partners that they have"

So he didnt provide any source for this but it is better to look at the video, he says the above from 5:51. Also may be I'm misunderstanding but I really dont know how he got into the conclusion, that Nvidia uses NVN in turing or Ampere architectures from an Orin SDK.
 
Internet is full of news today about "botw 2 is not possible on Switch". I hate this. Botw 1 is still one of the most impressive open world games ever created. Interaction with the world is still ahead of PS5/XS games. That game was made for 3 overclocked wii cores and wii cores are overclocked gamecube cores (not 100% true, but you get the point). If Nintendo can't squeeze every last drop of gpu/cpu juice, then nobody can.
 
NeonRed said:
Internet is full of news today about "botw 2 is not possible on Switch". I hate this. Botw 1 is still one of the most impressive open world games ever created. Interaction with the world is still ahead of PS5/XS games. That game was made for 3 overclocked wii cores and wii cores are overclocked gamecube cores (not 100% true, but you get the point). If Nintendo can't squeeze every last drop of gpu/cpu juice, then nobody can.
Click to expand...
Yeah I noticed a few YouTube channels ran with that. So silly considering the game is designed around the current Switch hardware. They were also a few days late on those quotes lol.
 
KMStwo said:
He says "it is a couple of screenshots from the SDK that Nvidia recently sent out to developers back when they were sharing that information online on their servers and for obvious reasons i'm not gonna be sharing any links in the description for anything here..." and he says "this information comes from their latest Orin development SDK that they've been sending out and testing to various partners that they have"

So he didnt provide any source for this but it is better to look at the video, he says the above from 5:51. Also may be I'm misunderstanding but I really dont know how he got into the conclusion, that Nvidia uses NVN in turing or Ampere architectures from an Orin SDK.
Click to expand...
This may be a misunderstanding of the Nvidia leak situation, where it was originally identifed that it might have interesting Nintendo info because one of the screenshots that was circulated to prove they had Nvidia source code just happened to include exclusively NVN files.

Specifically this screenshot from TechPowerUp:
HFoRTgUz8JlMKQ5j.jpg


www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA DLSS Source Code Leaked

The mother of all cyberattacks hit NVIDIA over the weekend, putting out critical driver source-code, the ability to disable LHR for mining, and even insights into future NVIDIA hardware, such as the Blackwell architecture. An anonymous tipster sent us this screenshot showing a list of files they...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
 
Future Boy Nemo said:
If WW and TP are separate $60 releases I'd expect Nintendo to add or change something about them. Maybe a toggle between the original and Wii U art styles for Wind Waker, and bundling Link's Crossbow Training for Twilight Princess. Otherwise I think they'll be $50 each.

But how cool would it be if they each got something like Bowser's Fury? Or the GBA Four Swords game for an in-franchise example.

On topic: I remember a few weeks ago a common strain in the discussion was people explaining that any leaks from GDC would take a few weeks to percolate out onto the internet. Would it be reasonable to assume there's a good chance that's responsible for Nate hearing new information recently?
Click to expand...
Gamecube and Wii versions included (remember they had the map mirrored :p)
 
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BlueManifest said:
Nate said there was no need to do a recap and it would be all new
Click to expand...

Due to the nature of the topic, there will be some recap, but my goal is to present mostly new or up to date information. As said before: I don't want to speculate over clocks and hypothetical maximums. Such info is of little interest to me when it comes to discussing the topic.

Polygon said:
Yeah I noticed a few YouTube channels ran with that. So silly considering the game is designed around the current Switch hardware. They were also a few days late on those quotes lol.
Click to expand...

People seem to be twisting the Digital Foundry analysis to force a narrative that makes little to no sense. Don't people remember the Wii U Breath of the Wild "footage" from E3 2014?
 
NeonRed said:
Internet is full of news today about "botw 2 is not possible on Switch". I hate this. Botw 1 is still one of the most impressive open world games ever created. Interaction with the world is still ahead of PS5/XS games. That game was made for 3 overclocked wii cores and wii cores are overclocked gamecube cores (not 100% true, but you get the point). If Nintendo can't squeeze every last drop of gpu/cpu juice, then nobody can.
Click to expand...
I don't see what's so different between the E3 2021 footage and the previous big BotW trailers with regards to IQ, that has some people so convinced that the sequel trailer must be Switch 2 footage. I think most of the sequel footage has been in-engine cutscenes or cleaned up gameplay footage made just for the trailer (the initial shot of Link skydiving, paragliding in the sky, the shot of him phasing directly up through an island, etc.)



These all are cleaned up gameplay footage or cutscenes. I've been straining my eyes to find aliasing. I obviously expect engine improvements between the two games in the past six years, but I always believed the original title had good IQ for an early Switch game.
 
NateDrake said:
People seem to be twisting the Digital Foundry analysis to force a narrative that makes little to no sense. Don't people remember the Wii U Breath of the Wild "footage" from E3 2014?
Click to expand...
Yeah I’d still like to know what the hell that 2014 reveal was running on be it a super charged devkit, high end pc or even if it was cgi. It looked ridiculous like BotW turned up to 11.

Nintendo don’t do bullshot footage often but when it comes to Zelda I’ll believe the footage when I see someone play it in the tree house although tbh I’d be happy with BotW level visuals at 4k DLSS at 60fps on Drake.

The volumetric clouds that DF’s Alex said was difficult to believe could run on Switch could just be an incredibly well done custom tech solution they’ve created. The clouds in Xenoblade 2 are amazing and Monolith Soft help with Zelda so could even be an evolution of that same tech.
 
Polygon said:
Yeah I’d still like to know what the hell that 2014 reveal was running on be it a devkit, high end pc or even if it was cgi. It looked ridiculous like BotW turned up to 11.

Nintendo don’t do bullshot footage often but when it comes to Zelda I’ll believe the footage when I see someone play it in the tree house although tbh I’d be happy with BotW at 4k DLSS at 60fps. The volumetric clouds that Alex said was difficult to believe could just be an incredibly well done custom tech solution they’ve created.
Click to expand...

As I understood it, that trailer actually helped the game take form in some ways - I think it was the slow motion arrow firing at the end that they said came about because of that trailer? This is from memory, so could be way off.

Anyway I'm guessing that footage was still Wii U, but was far too ambitious visually for all that they packed into the final product - scope, physics, etc. It definitely is a bit out of character for them to shoot so high in a trailer for sure.
 
Polygon said:
Yeah I’d still like to know what the hell that 2014 reveal was running on be it a super charged devkit, high end pc or even if it was cgi. It looked ridiculous like BotW turned up to 11.

Nintendo don’t do bullshot footage often but when it comes to Zelda I’ll believe the footage when I see someone play it in the tree house although tbh I’d be happy with BotW level visuals at 4k DLSS at 60fps on Drake.

The volumetric clouds that DF’s Alex said was difficult to believe could run on Switch could just be an incredibly well done custom tech solution they’ve created. The clouds in Xenoblade 2 are amazing and Monolith Soft help with Zelda so could even be an evolution of that same tech.
Click to expand...
it was either a scene made specifically for that video and dedicated all the wii u's horsepower to it, or they ran the video from the dev environment on PC
 
Polygon said:
Yeah I’d still like to know what the hell that 2014 reveal was running on be it a super charged devkit, high end pc or even if it was cgi. It looked ridiculous like BotW turned up to 11.

Nintendo don’t do bullshot footage often but when it comes to Zelda I’ll believe the footage when I see someone play it in the tree house although tbh I’d be happy with BotW level visuals at 4k DLSS at 60fps on Drake.

The volumetric clouds that DF’s Alex said was difficult to believe could run on Switch could just be an incredibly well done custom tech solution they’ve created. The clouds in Xenoblade 2 are amazing and Monolith Soft help with Zelda so could even be an evolution of that same tech.
Click to expand...
I'd say it is similar to what we are seeing with BotW2: In-engine footage ala what we have seen before from studios like Sony with Uncharted or MS with Hellblade 2. It's the game running on the hardware, but it's an in-engine sequence and not true gameplay -- but for BotW2 we have seen gameplay sequences back at E3. A curated trailer using in-engine assets is commonplace for the industry when in comes to marketing.
 
Yep saw the 10min Digital Foundry convo and the reporting seems a bit off

Also there's a leap in logic there to say that they usually only use real footage to then suggest it's real footage for something else :p it would not be real footage then, and so it might as well be a dev computer

Still, nothing too crazy is happening so it could just be a controlled scenario. BotW 1 in-game cutscenes look pretty clean too, so it could be something like that
 
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NateDrake said:
I'd say it is similar to what we are seeing with BotW2: In-engine footage ala what we have seen before from studios like Sony with Uncharted or MS with Hellblade 2. It's the game running on the hardware, but it's an in-engine sequence and not true gameplay -- but for BotW2 we have seen gameplay sequences back at E3. A curated trailer using in-engine assets is commonplace for the industry when in comes to marketing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the original Breath of the Wild trailer was originally planned to be a memory or made by the team making the memories.
 
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Polygon said:
I wonder how the next Switch will compare versus Steam Deck because that DF video is incredibly impressive. I imagine if there’s optimisation on both UE5 and Steam Deck it could run downscaled current gen AAA UE5 games.
Click to expand...
This thing is much stronger than the steam deck, zero doubt about that. This should not be surprising when you consider
-It's going to be using newer hardware (steam deck GPU is modified 2021 hardware, drake gpu will be using modified 2022 hardware)
-It can connect to the wall
-Nintendo can order parts in massive bulk to drive down price and acquire better hardware for the price
-Drake has DLSS while the Steam Deck does not
-Games will be designed specifically for Drake leading to them being much more optimized

Without DLSS the Drake would still be substantially better, but not hugely, but DLSS is a game changer here.
 
SirArthur said:
I opened my social media and all I see is everyone running with the "BOTW2 is too powerful for the switch" narrative lol. The DF guys will probably have a respond on their next podcast.
Click to expand...
I don't understand how people keep falling for this stuff. Nintendo isn't going to leak the existence of new hardware by showing game footage on it before its announcement.
 
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SirArthur said:
I opened my social media and all I see is everyone running with the "BOTW2 is too powerful for the switch" narrative lol. The DF guys will probably have a respond on their next podcast.
Click to expand...
“Everyone” aka a dozen people on Twitter

I think it’s best not to let the “internet opinion”, which is typically a vocal minority, sway your perspective on the game. They certainly don’t speak for the mass market.
 
SirArthur said:
I opened my social media and all I see is everyone running with the "BOTW2 is too powerful for the switch" narrative lol. The DF guys will probably have a respond on their next podcast.
Click to expand...
I think someone should clarify to them about this information and they have to be notified on this.

Morpeko said:
A rumor from China: The Chinese ns factory is testing a new part, a modified version of a previous part. Insiders confirmed that it should be part of the back shell of the ns
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Can you at least provide a link :p

It’s the least you can do

This just sounds like the Switch Lite rumor that I heard about ages ago. Could simply be regurgitated old rumors that are about 3 years old now.
 
mariodk18 said:
“Everyone” aka a dozen people on Twitter

I think it’s best not to let the “internet opinion”, which is typically a vocal minority, sway your perspective on the game. They certainly don’t speak for the mass market.
Click to expand...
Obviously "everyone" is hyperbolic.

As for my perpespective, I dont really care what people say. As you said its a vocal minority
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
I think someone should clarify to them about this information and they have to be notified on this.


Can you at least provide a link :p

It’s the least you can do

This just sounds like the Switch Lite rumor that I heard about ages ago. Could simply be regurgitated old rumors that are about 3 years old now.
Click to expand...
The rumor came from a Nintendo fan forum in China, and the leaker has since deleted the message (for confidentiality reasons). So sorry I can't provide a link.
But forum members are convinced he is indeed a factory insider
 
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