StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[JoshuaJSlone]

yes, but how does this work for docked play? this would also be a point of contention since not everyone plays only in handheld mode.

If it was something that could only help one mode, that might not necessarily be bad... but it's come up again and again that handheld already probably has a big advantage in per-pixel power compared to docked with a 4K TV, so handheld isn't the side that really needs the extra juice. Unless their new idea of parity is everything handheld having twice the frame rate.

Idk sounds kind of believable to me, switch was doing very well the before the pandemic but you could always find one on the shelf. once the pandemic hit you would be hard pressed to find one on the store shelves because everything was being scalped

The first year of the pandemic was Switch's biggest year period, yes. But it was only up by about a third from the previous year. If that was thanks to a +143% pandemic boost, then Switch was otherwise on the verge of crashing.

Putting on the Switch 2 a screen worse than the OLED would feel like a downgrade to most people.
Side-by-side comparisons for back-compat games wouldn't go well.

FWIW, Quest 2 ditched the OLED of the Quest 1. Most people still prefer the newer screen, though that is largely thanks to other improvements that aren't really applicable to Switch, like higher refresh rate and lessened screen door effect.

 

[ziggyrivers]

I play so little TV mode that I’ve had my dock in a bag from a vacation I took a year ago and never unpacked, but you better believe I’m sweating over the docked performance

To me it’s ironic. I mostly use it docked, but recently, I’ve been going undocked xD

 

[hologram]

Aww man I missed page 1000

 

[Bosintang]

Where does this graph come from?

 

[epicmartin7]

https://patents.google.com/patent/U...nee=Nintendo&oq=Nintendo+thunderbolt&sort=new

The patent for Thunderbolt Switch dock back from 2021

Oh hey, that's pretty interesting. iirc, thunderbolt has data speeds fast enough to hook up external gpus too. So maybe Nintendo are looking to future-proof their next-gen successor/next revision? (provided this thing is adapted for that of course.)

 

[Erathix]

Aww man I missed page 1000

Don't worry, friend. The real page 1000 was the friends we made along the way...and the Switch 2. The Switch 2 that was made along the way.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Oh hey, that's pretty interesting. iirc, thunderbolt has data speeds fast enough to hook up external gpus too. So maybe Nintendo are looking to future-proof their next-gen successor/next revision? (provided this thing is adapted for that of course.)

Future proof how? Have a dock that can turn the Switch 2 into a Pro?

 

[epicmartin7]

Future proof how? Have a dock that can turn the Switch 2 into a Pro?

iirc, thunderbolt specifications allow external gpus to run without significant delay between it and the cpu.
so because of that, makes me wonder if nintendo tinkered with the thunderbolt idea to include actual hardware in the dock to enhance games instead of just different clock speeds

 

[Cybergatuno]

Where does this graph come from?

From here.
The graphs look like they came from Nintendo but I can't find them.
It does check out with Nintendo's data.

 

[ziggyrivers]

iirc, thunderbolt specifications allow external gpus to run without significant delay between it and the cpu.
so because of that, makes me wonder if nintendo tinkered with the thunderbolt idea to include actual hardware in the dock to enhance games instead of just different clock speeds

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing.

Do you think Nintendo would do this for a Switch 2 Pro or just release a different version of the console and not an external GPU?

 

[Kazuyamishima]

Do you think Nintendo would do this for a Switch 2 Pro or just release a different version of the console and not an external GPU?

Probably just release a successor

 

[notcoolest]

FWIW, Quest 2 ditched the OLED of the Quest 1. Most people still prefer the newer screen, though that is largely thanks to other improvements that aren't really applicable to Switch, like higher refresh rate and lessened screen door effect.

Higher refresh rate is applicable to switch... I'd take a smaller 720p non-oled 120hz screen over a bigger 1080p oled 60hz screen.

If nothing else, it would allow some games to target 40fps in handheld mode. Either that or it could be a vrr screen, so games can have variable frame rates and it will still feel good

 

[notcoolest]

I’m sad for the people making up a Super Smash Bros. Cinematic Universe. I feel like Nintendo is gonna treat the movies like they treat the Pokemon Anime: marketing for the games and merch

I don't even expect them to have a consistent output of films... we'll probably have to wait a few years for mario 2, and then we might get zelda a while after that.

 

[notcoolest]

With all that said, the most likely candidates for Drake's CPU don't have this problem, so this is a Switch 3 concern.

By the time the switch 3 comes out it will be trivial to completely emulate the switch even on a super low-end device, so that isn't really going to be a concern anyway

 

[Cybergatuno]

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing.

Do you think Nintendo would do this for a Switch 2 Pro or just release a different version of the console and not an external GPU?

That's never gonna happen.

eGPU over thunderbolt was mostly a way for manufacturers to sell their overpriced plug-n-play GPUs with tons of RAM to people who couldn't figure out how to open their own PCs and plug a PCIe card.

Any kind of external GPU prevents the Switch from "switching". All the graphical context, 3D models, textures, commands, everything must be reloaded, which is probably very close to a full game reboot.

 

[ziggyrivers]

I don't even expect them to have a consistent output of films... we'll probably have to wait a few years for mario 2, and then we might get zelda a while after that.

I concur with you, but with the Super Mario Bros. Movie’s number, I’m sure Nintendo is gonna green light a sequel. As to Zelda material, I think they’ll be convinced after seeing TOTK’s massive performance.

—————

By the by, could the Drake manage with a Persona 3 Remake?

Possible first footage of the rumoured PERSONA 3 Remake & the new Jet Set Radio (#TeamReal vs #TeamFake) Rumor

This was posted on Persona subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/12g87r6/cant_find_any_information_on_this_clip_original/ https://streamable.com/ju11mt Edit: https://twitter.com/AVtoGAMEnoYAMI/status/1644990912328798208 Jet Set Radio footage also showing up...

www.resetera.com

 

[notcoolest]

I concur with you, but with the Super Mario Bros. Movie’s number, I’m sure Nintendo is gonna green light a sequel

Of course, but I still think it'll take a few years

As to Zelda material, I think they’ll be convinced after seeing TOTK’s massive performance.

Shoot me, but I don't think TOTK is going to sell that well

Relatuve to BOTW, that is. BOTW was the perfect storm, it was lightning in a bottle... and to mix meteorological metaphors.. i don't think it'll strike twice. Switch hype, plus it being one of the only games to play for a while meant that it got a mega boost in sales. Now the switch is dying, and TOTK is already very derivative of BOTW so it doesn't even have the thing of being a fresh new take on zelda...

I have no doubt it'll be an amazing game, but good game doesn't mean popular game

 

[notcoolest]

By the by, could the Drake manage with a Persona 3 Remake?

Possible first footage of the rumoured PERSONA 3 Remake & the new Jet Set Radio (#TeamReal vs #TeamFake) Rumor

This was posted on Persona subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/12g87r6/cant_find_any_information_on_this_clip_original/ https://streamable.com/ju11mt Edit: https://twitter.com/AVtoGAMEnoYAMI/status/1644990912328798208 Jet Set Radio footage also showing up...

www.resetera.com

If those are the graphics, then yeah, easily. Looks like it could run on switch with enough optimisation

 

[Cheesehead302]

I think aside from specs, my biggest want for this system is that they overhaul the joycons. Make them not faulty, make them have high range of motion sticks, and bigger buttons. I'd imagine that current controllers would be compatible as well, however, any ideas on the size of this? Wouldn't this put it at something closer to Steam Deck width? Would that cause any problems for current Joy Con compatibility (not that I'd want to use current ones if they actually do improve them lol)?

 

[notcoolest]

I think aside from specs, my biggest want for this system is that they overhaul the joycons. Make them not faulty, make them have high range of motion sticks, and bigger buttons. I'd imagine that current controllers would be compatible as well, however, any ideas on the size of this? Wouldn't this put it at something closer to Steam Deck width? Would that cause any problems for current Joy Con compatibility (not that I'd want to use current ones if they actually do improve them lol)?

there is room to make the switch wider without going to full steam deck size. ~Even though I wouldn't mind that.. the switch is more portable than even its own lite version because you can take the controllers off the sides. I can easily fit the switch console in one pocket and the joy cons in another, whereas the switch lite is too big for one pocket... plus doing that would seriously mess up the sticks. The deck is obviouslyu way too big for most pockets (even though it does actually fit in stuff like a robe, or hoodie-style front pouches) but I almost always take a massive bag with me anyway so that honestly doesn't matter too much to me

I have no doubt that joy cons will still work... even if they dont physically connect to the console, they are just bluetooth controllers so they have no reason to not work. They even work with the steam deck...

 

[ziggyrivers]

Of course, but I still think it'll take a few years

At max, I think it’ll take two years.

Shoot me, but I don't think TOTK is going to sell that well

I think it’ll equal or surpass BOTW. Switch has a big enough install base and the game has a lot of hype. Other than that, pre-order numbers are phenomenal.

If those are the graphics, then yeah, easily. Looks like it could run on switch with enough optimisation

True. Especially how Switch is already running Royal. The Remake, if it’s real, is gonna use P5’s engine.

 

[notcoolest]

I think it’ll equal or surpass BOTW. Switch has a big enough install base and the game has a lot of hype. Other than that, pre-order numbers are phenomenal

I just don't think it'll set the world on fire like BOTW did

 

[Cybergatuno]

there is room to make the switch wider without going to full steam deck size. ~Even though I wouldn't mind that.. the switch is more portable than even its own lite version because you can take the controllers off the sides. I can easily fit the switch console in one pocket and the joy cons in another, whereas the switch lite is too big for one pocket... plus doing that would seriously mess up the sticks. The deck is obviouslyu way too big for most pockets (even though it does actually fit in stuff like a robe, or hoodie-style front pouches) but I almost always take a massive bag with me anyway so that honestly doesn't matter too much to me

I have no doubt that joy cons will still work... even if they dont physically connect to the console, they are just bluetooth controllers so they have no reason to not work. They even work with the steam deck...

Switch LeChonk confirmed!
Carry it inside your boxers to impress the ladies.

 

[YugamiSekai]

there is room to make the switch wider without going to full steam deck size. ~Even though I wouldn't mind that.. the switch is more portable than even its own lite version because you can take the controllers off the sides. I can easily fit the switch console in one pocket and the joy cons in another, whereas the switch lite is too big for one pocket... plus doing that would seriously mess up the sticks. The deck is obviouslyu way too big for most pockets (even though it does actually fit in stuff like a robe, or hoodie-style front pouches) but I almost always take a massive bag with me anyway so that honestly doesn't matter too much to me

I have no doubt that joy cons will still work... even if they dont physically connect to the console, they are just bluetooth controllers so they have no reason to not work. They even work with the steam deck...

The white Joy-Con's D-Pad just made me shutter in fear of what Nintendo might do.

 

[notcoolest]

The white Joy-Con's D-Pad just made me shutter in fear of what Nintendo might do.

????

 

[Concernt]

there is room to make the switch wider without going to full steam deck size. ~Even though I wouldn't mind that.. the switch is more portable than even its own lite version because you can take the controllers off the sides. I can easily fit the switch console in one pocket and the joy cons in another, whereas the switch lite is too big for one pocket... plus doing that would seriously mess up the sticks. The deck is obviouslyu way too big for most pockets (even though it does actually fit in stuff like a robe, or hoodie-style front pouches) but I almost always take a massive bag with me anyway so that honestly doesn't matter too much to me

I have no doubt that joy cons will still work... even if they dont physically connect to the console, they are just bluetooth controllers so they have no reason to not work. They even work with the steam deck...

They will absolutely be able to attach, even if new Joy-Con use a more stable mechanism.

 

[invwar]

I think aside from specs, my biggest want for this system is that they overhaul the joycons. Make them not faulty, make them have high range of motion sticks, and bigger buttons. I'd imagine that current controllers would be compatible as well, however, any ideas on the size of this? Wouldn't this put it at something closer to Steam Deck width? Would that cause any problems for current Joy Con compatibility (not that I'd want to use current ones if they actually do improve them lol)?

The Switch sold so good, they were able to get enough feedback to improve them. I don't expect a complete new revolution, but a very decent evolution on what is technically possible without removing key features.

That's never gonna happen.

eGPU over thunderbolt was mostly a way for manufacturers to sell their overpriced plug-n-play GPUs with tons of RAM to people who couldn't figure out how to open their own PCs and plug a PCIe card.

Any kind of external GPU prevents the Switch from "switching". All the graphical context, 3D models, textures, commands, everything must be reloaded, which is probably very close to a full game reboot.

This is not true. The Thunderbolt in USB 4 Integration and the eGPU was needed because the Sales on Laptops massively increased in the last 20 years and overshadows the Desktop sales by a far margin. You can argue, that normal Gaming Laptops are an abomination, I will for sure not go back, but the demand is there. But what are the most sales coming from? Corporates. Since I start working I had a Laptop for work and I know the same for many many others. Most of them don't have a Desktop as I do, they do also their private stuff on that Laptop. But they can't game, even if they want. With an eGPU, the manufacturer can reach customer like my friends, as they have already a Laptop, but are not willing to buy an extra gaming PC/laptop. This is a huge target group, which is mostly just not existent, because the eGPU setup is still freaking expensive and often not market as reliable.
Another market was btw Apple users, which crippled the market by moving to their own CPUs.

Nevertheless, I would assume you could massively smooth the experience by creating their own hardware specifically designed for the purpose. How much, I am not able to say. But I was already impressed what Nintendo could achieve with the Switch in the first place. But nowadays I am more convinced that this would be a Pro Release which would come in a few years after the initial release.

 

[notcoolest]

They will absolutely be able to attach, even if new Joy-Con use a more stable mechanism.

We can't say that with certainty, though... if the new console is thicker or taller in any way, then that would make joy con attatchment awakward, even if it was possible. I don't think nintendo will want to rigidly stick to the dimensions of the original switch... it just doesn't make sense to restrict themselves like that for the sake of being compatible with controllers that are notoriously terrible and people will do anything to get away from.

conversely, we can say that joy con will work wirelessly with the new system, because as long as it uses bluetooth, any controller will work. I wouldn't complain if they switched to 2.4ghz, but I doubt they would remove bluetooth completely so it's almost guaranteed, whereas physical connection is not quite as guaranteeable...

 

[RaymondBryce]

Of course, but I still think it'll take a few years


Shoot me, but I don't think TOTK is going to sell that well

Relatuve to BOTW, that is. BOTW was the perfect storm, it was lightning in a bottle... and to mix meteorological metaphors.. i don't think it'll strike twice. Switch hype, plus it being one of the only games to play for a while meant that it got a mega boost in sales. Now the switch is dying, and TOTK is already very derivative of BOTW so it doesn't even have the thing of being a fresh new take on zelda...

I have no doubt it'll be an amazing game, but good game doesn't mean popular game

How much are you expecting?

 

[notcoolest]

How much are you expecting?

I couldn't tell you an exact number... I just have this feeling that it cant be "BOTW: Again" because the circumstances and specifics are so vastly different

 

[SoldierDelta]

I couldn't tell you an exact number... I just have this feeling that it cant be "BOTW: Again" because the circumstances and specifics are so vastly different

I don't agree that TotK won't sell well, for a couple of reasons, however basically everyone has already said them. It'll review well, have a giant and popular installbase filled with people who watched Youtube videos of the original game when they couldn't get a Switch originally back in 2017, BotW sold like hotcakes despite being a launch game from a developer that was bordering-on dead in the water if this system flopped, and it's a Gosh Darn Zelda game they seldom sell badly.

TotK will likely do very well, despite the 10 dollar price hike and the, in my opinion, braindead opinion of "Oh wow this game is just 70 dollar DLC for BotW".
However, only time will tell as to if my reasons are founded. Idk, a month isn't that long of a wait anymore.

 

[ILikeFeet]

The Switch sold so good, they were able to get enough feedback to improve them. I don't expect a complete new revolution, but a very decent evolution on what is technically possible without removing key features.

This is not true. The Thunderbolt in USB 4 Integration and the eGPU was needed because the Sales on Laptops massively increased in the last 20 years and overshadows the Desktop sales by a far margin. You can argue, that normal Gaming Laptops are an abomination, I will for sure not go back, but the demand is there. But what are the most sales coming from? Corporates. Since I start working I had a Laptop for work and I know the same for many many others. Most of them don't have a Desktop as I do, they do also their private stuff on that Laptop. But they can't game, even if they want. With an eGPU, the manufacturer can reach customer like my friends, as they have already a Laptop, but are not willing to buy an extra gaming PC/laptop. This is a huge target group, which is mostly just not existent, because the eGPU setup is still freaking expensive and often not market as reliable.
Another market was btw Apple users, which crippled the market by moving to their own CPUs.

Nevertheless, I would assume you could massively smooth the experience by creating their own hardware specifically designed for the purpose. How much, I am not able to say. But I was already impressed what Nintendo could achieve with the Switch in the first place. But nowadays I am more convinced that this would be a Pro Release which would come in a few years after the initial release.

How would you sort out the memory transferring issue?

If it was something that could only help one mode, that might not necessarily be bad... but it's come up again and again that handheld already probably has a big advantage in per-pixel power compared to docked with a 4K TV, so handheld isn't the side that really needs the extra juice. Unless their new idea of parity is everything handheld having twice the frame rate

I don't think it's even going to help that much to begin with. If you can use vrs in handheld mode, you can do the same in docked mode. And the actual ratio of rendering performance between handheld and docked isn't going to be different from the Switch, so docked isn't going to have that big an advantage

 

[notcoolest]

I don't agree that TotK won't sell well, for a couple of reasons, however basically everyone has already said them. It'll review well, have a giant and popular installbase filled with people who watched Youtube videos of the original game when they couldn't get a Switch originally back in 2017, BotW sold like hotcakes despite being a launch game from a developer that was bordering-on dead in the water if this system flopped, and it's a Gosh Darn Zelda game they seldom sell badly.

TotK will likely do very well, despite the 10 dollar price hike and the, in my opinion, braindead opinion of "Oh wow this game is just 70 dollar DLC for BotW".
However, only time will tell as to if my reasons are founded. Idk, a month isn't that long of a wait anymore.

I'm not saying it won't sell well, I'm just saying that I don't think it'll be the ultra smash hit that people might assume.

I dont think there will be that many people buying it who haven't played BOTW. And the few new people buying switches aren't just going to buy TOTK by default like they did with BOTW. MK8 has already taken that spot.

Also the higher price literally will not make a difference because it only applies to north america. In every other region, BOTW cost more than the average game too.

 

[Concernt]

We can't say that with certainty, though... if the new console is thicker or taller in any way, then that would make joy con attatchment awakward, even if it was possible. I don't think nintendo will want to rigidly stick to the dimensions of the original switch... it just doesn't make sense to restrict themselves like that for the sake of being compatible with controllers that are notoriously terrible and people will do anything to get away from.

conversely, we can say that joy con will work wirelessly with the new system, because as long as it uses bluetooth, any controller will work. I wouldn't complain if they switched to 2.4ghz, but I doubt they would remove bluetooth completely so it's almost guaranteed, whereas physical connection is not quite as guaranteeable...

I am saying it with certainty.

As far as one is certain they can work wirelessly with the new device, I am certain they can and will attach.

The Nintendo Switch is not a GameBoy. It is not a PlayStation. It is a hybrid portable with detachable controllers. That concept inherently limits (and not for the worse) its dimensions.

If it already has to be small enough to be a handheld.

Big enough to dissipate heat.

And the controllers have to attach in some way for it to become portable.

If you have all those limitations on what it can and cannot be, must and mustn't be, why, oh WHY, would you restrict controller compatibility?

There is no reason. It is that simple.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, or believes, or wishes, Joy-Con have been a massive success for Nintendo. A gigantic one. One of their most successful lines of controllers ever. They didn't abandon GCN controllers. They didn't abandon Wii Remotes.

They will not abandon Joy-Con. As certain as the Wii launched with GCN controller ports, I am certain they will attach. You cannot sell people a console on the promise of a straight upgrade with controller compatibility and tell them to keep their old console around to charge their extra controllers.

They spent years of RnD on the Joy-Con and their rails, and even with OLED Model they were refining them.

Abandoning them would be at best an engineering failure, but more likely a marketing upset that nobody asked for.

They can improve Joy-Con, and I hope they do, without breaking compatibility, because what makes them work, what would make them compatible, the Joy-Con Rail, are already functional, already of an appropriate size, and already do everything they need them to do.

 

[notcoolest]

I am saying it with certainty.

As far as one is certain they can work wirelessly with the new device, I am certain they can and will attach.

The Nintendo Switch is not a GameBoy. It is not a PlayStation. It is a hybrid portable with detachable controllers. That concept inherently limits (and not for the worse) its dimensions.

If it already has to be small enough to be a handheld.

Big enough to dissipate heat.

And the controllers have to attach in some way for it to become portable.

If you have all those limitations on what it can and cannot be, must and mustn't be, why, oh WHY, would you restrict controller compatibility?

There is no reason. It is that simple.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, or believes, or wishes, Joy-Con have been a massive success for Nintendo. A gigantic one. One of their most successful lines of controllers ever. They didn't abandon GCN controllers. They didn't abandon Wii Remotes.

They will not abandon Joy-Con. As certain as the Wii launched with GCN controller ports, I am certain they will attach. You cannot sell people a console on the promise of a straight upgrade with controller compatibility and tell them to keep their old console around to charge their extra controllers.

They spent years of RnD on the Joy-Con and their rails, and even with OLED Model they were refining them.

Abandoning them would be at best an engineering failure, but more likely a marketing upset that nobody asked for.

They can improve Joy-Con, and I hope they do, without breaking compatibility, because that makes them work, what would make them compatible, the Joy-Con Rail, are already functional, already of an appropriate size, and already do everything they need them to do.

The switch is not this perfect, 0% fat system, though. You can make it bigger without sacrificing its portability. You can make new joy con that don't have to fit the exact mould of the old ones. The joy con rail is not a perfect mechanism, and it can be improved without the needless restriction of remaining compatibile with old controllers that people hate so much that they have taken nintendo to court over them.

I'm literally not saying that they are going to block the use of joy con on the new system. I said in my post that you can 100% guarantee that they will work WIRELESSLY, but you cannot 100% guarantee than nintendo would restrict the design of the new system by forcing it to conform to the dimensions and mechanisms of the previous system. It's just a pointless limitation that would only harm the new system's potential.

If it needs to be thicker because of a bigger battery and heatsink, then they should make it thicker. if it needs to be taller because the new joy cons have more inputs, then they should make it taller. No point handicapping the new system because of conformity with the old one.

 

[Aether]

Higher refresh rate is applicable to switch... I'd take a smaller 720p non-oled 120hz screen over a bigger 1080p oled 60hz screen.

If nothing else, it would allow some games to target 40fps in handheld mode. Either that or it could be a vrr screen, so games can have variable frame rates and it will still feel good

There are enough budget phones with 90hz and 120hz oled 1080 screens.
Sub native for 1080 on a small screen look waaay better then sub native for 720 on the same screen,
So a 1080 120 HDR screen the size of the oled
Would be my dream, some games can go for fidelity (1080, 30-40hz, slower paced ones, jrpgs, adventures, visual novels, horror Games), and others could go 720-900, 120hz (action, racing, platformers, sports, shooters)

That would be my wishful thinking.
Realistically knowing them:
The cheapest "good" option.
If they can get a well priced 720 screen, then it's Gona be that. If it can do HDR it will be able to.
I'm sure the panel will ne 90hz capable, but I could see them not activating it cause they stay with HDMI 2.0b
2.1 needs a lot more bandwidth, and I could see them wanting to keep the refresh rate topic simple (principal parity between docked and undocked)

 

[Aether]

The switch is not this perfect, 0% fat system, though. You can make it bigger without sacrificing its portability. You can make new joy con that don't have to fit the exact mould of the old ones. The joy con rail is not a perfect mechanism, and it can be improved without the needless restriction of remaining compatibile with old controllers that people hate so much that they have taken nintendo to court over them.

I'm literally not saying that they are going to block the use of joy con on the new system. I said in my post that you can 100% guarantee that they will work WIRELESSLY, but you cannot 100% guarantee than nintendo would restrict the design of the new system by forcing it to conform to the dimensions and mechanisms of the previous system. It's just a pointless limitation that would only harm the new system's potential.

If it needs to be thicker because of a bigger battery and heatsink, then they should make it thicker. if it needs to be taller because the new joy cons have more inputs, then they should make it taller. No point handicapping the new system because of conformity with the old one.

Side note: having an adapter rail for people that want to use old ones would be simple, it's not more complex then the joy con Straps to manufacture, with 1 moving part. They could have 1 pair in the box and remove it on later revisions, or just sell them for 10$ a pair.
Heck, to soften backlash have a 10$ eshop code in the pack on launch for a limited time, so that they can argue that the adapters are essentially free.

 

[Raccoon]

The switch is not this perfect, 0% fat system, though.

exactly. it isn't too internally compact and could be a bit sma

You can make it bigger without sacrificing its portability.

?????

 

[Concernt]

The switch is not this perfect, 0% fat system, though. You can make it bigger without sacrificing its portability. You can make new joy con that don't have to fit the exact mould of the old ones. The joy con rail is not a perfect mechanism, and it can be improved without the needless restriction of remaining compatibile with old controllers that people hate so much that they have taken nintendo to court over them.

I'm literally not saying that they are going to block the use of joy con on the new system. I said in my post that you can 100% guarantee that they will work WIRELESSLY, but you cannot 100% guarantee than nintendo would restrict the design of the new system by forcing it to conform to the dimensions and mechanisms of the previous system. It's just a pointless limitation that would only harm the new system's potential.

If it needs to be thicker because of a bigger battery and heatsink, then they should make it thicker. if it needs to be taller because the new joy cons have more inputs, then they should make it taller. No point handicapping the new system because of conformity with the old one.

If they work wirelessly, they have to attach. That's how they charge.

It's not a handicap.

They should NOT make it bigger, though, because, you know. It's a portable, and it's already massive.

 

[Concernt]

exactly. it isn't too internally compact and could be a bit sma

?????

Internally they compacted OLED Model a lot, but they GENUINELY can't make it smaller because of the hinges, kickstand, and screen size. Unless the screen shrinks and the kickstand gets worse, it's unlikely to be much smaller.

 

[TomNookYankees]

exactly. it isn't too internally compact and could be a bit sma

?????

In addition to how keeping the joy-cons so small limits how they could improve them, the small, narrow size of the joycons make the switch horrendous when it comes to ergonomics because there is nothing to comfortably grip on while using the joycons in handheld, dual joycon, or single joycon modes.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Where does this graph come from?

I made it. The real data is real, the "non-COVID" is is if it was selling a fractional amount since March 31, 2020 to reach an additional 35m lifetime rather than 85m.

I don't think it's even going to help that much to begin with. If you can use vrs in handheld mode, you can do the same in docked mode.

I was talking about the limitation of using eye tracking.

And the actual ratio of rendering performance between handheld and docked isn't going to be different from the Switch, so docked isn't going to have that big an advantage

That's the thing, docked doesn't have an advantage. If the power gap is similar to this generation but handheld is being asked to do so with a screen of 1-2.25x the pixels of this gen and docked is being asked to do so with a screen of 4x the pixels of this gen, docked is the one that's going to have more trouble keeping up.

 

[ILikeFeet]

That's the thing, docked doesn't have an advantage. If the power gap is similar to this generation but handheld is being asked to do so with a screen of 1-2.25x the pixels of this gen and docked is being asked to do so with a screen of 4x the pixels of this gen, docked is the one that's going to have more trouble keeping up.

That's if we're assuming the workloads don't change between the generations. Once you start making use of the hardware to push fidelity, you're not going to be pushing the number of pixels that's any different than the handheld/docked split we see now. That's the whole point of dlss, so you don't have to

 

[notcoolest]

There are enough budget phones with 90hz and 120hz oled 1080 screens.
Sub native for 1080 on a small screen look waaay better then sub native for 720 on the same screen,
So a 1080 120 HDR screen the size of the oled
Would be my dream, some games can go for fidelity (1080, 30-40hz, slower paced ones, jrpgs, adventures, visual novels, horror Games), and others could go 720-900, 120hz (action, racing, platformers, sports, shooters)

That would be my wishful thinking.
Realistically knowing them:
The cheapest "good" option.
If they can get a well priced 720 screen, then it's Gona be that. If it can do HDR it will be able to.
I'm sure the panel will ne 90hz capable, but I could see them not activating it cause they stay with HDMI 2.0b
2.1 needs a lot more bandwidth, and I could see them wanting to keep the refresh rate topic simple (principal parity between docked and undocked)

Obviously 1080p is better, but I think I wouod be fine with a 720p screen if it meant stuff like oled or hdr or 120hz. I think a 1080p screen that is just the same quality as the regular switch screen would be worse than a 720p screen that has better tech.

I think 120hz would be a lot more useful for 40fps than it would be for 120fps... most games on the switch aren't even 60fps, so I think we should hit that target first...

 

[TSR3]

The real data is real, the "non-COVID" is is if it was selling a fractional amount since March 31, 2020 to reach an additional 35m lifetime rather than 85m.

You can see how making the OLED model a Switch Pro would have made sense as a way to boost sales in your hypothetical non-COVID scenario

 

[notcoolest]

If they work wirelessly, they have to attach. That's how they charge.

It's not a handicap.

They should NOT make it bigger, though, because, you know. It's a portable, and it's already massive.

They could just sell a usb charging station if you somehow manage to own the new system and also have joy cons without having a switch as well.

Those charging stations already exist, and they're really cheap... either that, or they just keep selling the charging grip.

I'm just saying that there's no reason to vehemently maintain physical compatibility with the original joy cons because they are not even close to a perfect design.

And no, the switch is not massive... did you not see my picture? The steam deck is massive, the switch is honestly smaller than it needs to be. If drake being 5mm thicker means that it has 2x battery life, then make drake 5mm thicker.

 

[notcoolest]

exactly. it isn't too internally compact and could be a bit sma

?????

Drake can still be a bit larger than the switch and still be equally as portable. Making it slightly bigger would allow it to be much more powerful while still keeping it exactly as portable as the switch is

They can make the Switch smaller... obviously proven because they made a switch lite... but if you're expecting drake to be smaller than the switch and also as powerful as an xbox series x, then arr you also expecting it to be delivered by bigfoot riding on nessie's back?

 

[Aether]

Obviously 1080p is better, but I think I wouod be fine with a 720p screen if it meant stuff like oled or hdr or 120hz. I think a 1080p screen that is just the same quality as the regular switch screen would be worse than a 720p screen that has better tech.

Im with you, i just find it really unrealistic to assume that there is a screen thats cheaper where all the more advanced features are there and work well (OLED*, HDR, high refresh rate) but the resolution stays low, as one of the more basic aspects nowadays.

OLED*: oleds screen have benefits and weaknesses compared to good LCD display (IPS mostly)
The colors often even on the natural profile seem to bleed somewhat, brightness is limited, burn in / screen uneven aging of the diodes. But for a portable console, where higher brightness would cut into the battery more, and where dark screens essentially mean almost no power use, makes it the defacto better display for mobile gadgets that usually dont life as long as Monitors or TVs.

I think 120hz would be a lot more useful for 40fps than it would be for 120fps... most games on the switch aren't even 60fps, so I think we should hit that target first...

Eh. The are not...now. Simply cause switch is trying to play in the big leagues.
With 4k now here, and the switch not needing to compare in resolution to those at all,
it has a way higher ceiling in how much power can be used to render frames.
I could se indies, some 2D games, retro games, remasters going for a way higher refreshrate.
Look at PS3 Ports for example: switchis rendering those in 720@30, and some in 720@60.
Having the resolution stay the same, but way more power, would lead to 120Fps being no problem.

Or heck, just look at DMC5, on Ps5 it renders with 120Hz and raytracing, i could see switch 2 being capable of rendering that in 720p 120Hz without ray tracing. Or if not 120, 90 should be no problem.

Stuff like hollow knight? 120 would for sure not be a problem. Enter the Gungeon? same, that already runs on 60fps on switch. Heck, those would probably run fine in 4k@120Hz docked.

 

[Aether]

Drake can still be a bit larger than the switch and still be equally as portable. Making it slightly bigger would allow it to be much more powerful while still keeping it exactly as portable as the switch is

They can make the Switch smaller... obviously proven because they made a switch lite... but if you're expecting drake to be smaller than the switch and also as powerful as an xbox series x, then arr you also expecting it to be delivered by bigfoot riding on nessie's back?

Portability is relative. If you are one of those that packs it in the pocket, because it fits, adding to any dimension would be a detriment.
If you have some pockets in bags that are fine with more thickness, but cant hold more width or heights, then you have a problem. same the other way around.
Depending on the usecase all changes could increase or decrease the portability.

Personally: stifness of the case, and if its possible to close the fan in and outs is the deciding factor.
Even if it would be smaller, i would never put it into a pocked, since i don't trust the case and the plastic screen to keep it safe, and having dust and lint or something else enter the intakes would be a voided waranty for sure. So, slightly thicker would be fine(1-3mm), but in my book more then the OLED in width and height would start to feel cumbersome and unconfortable. I dont want a gaming Laptop in my hands, if you are big or dont really play in your hands much (many steamdeck users seem to use it more as a gaming laptop on tables), then its fine, but there are players that would be left out, and its always easiere to ADD (there are a ton of third party accesories to make the grip bigger or replace the joycons with bigger controllers) then to remove.

 

[notcoolest]

Im with you, i just find it really unrealistic to assume that there is a screen thats cheaper where all the more advanced features are there and work well (OLED*, HDR, high refresh rate) but the resolution stays low, as one of the more basic aspects nowadays.

OLED*: oleds screen have benefits and weaknesses compared to good LCD display (IPS mostly)
The colors often even on the natural profile seem to bleed somewhat, brightness is limited, burn in / screen uneven aging of the diodes. But for a portable console, where higher brightness would cut into the battery more, and where dark screens essentially mean almost no power use, makes it the defacto better display for mobile gadgets that usually dont life as long as Monitors or TVs.

Eh. The are not...now. Simply cause switch is trying to play in the big leagues.
With 4k now here, and the switch not needing to compare in resolution to those at all,
it has a way higher ceiling in how much power can be used to render frames.
I could se indies, some 2D games, retro games, remasters going for a way higher refreshrate.
Look at PS3 Ports for example: switchis rendering those in 720@30, and some in 720@60.
Having the resolution stay the same, but way more power, would lead to 120Fps being no problem.

Or heck, just look at DMC5, on Ps5 it renders with 120Hz and raytracing, i could see switch 2 being capable of rendering that in 720p 120Hz without ray tracing. Or if not 120, 90 should be no problem.

Stuff like hollow knight? 120 would for sure not be a problem. Enter the Gungeon? same, that already runs on 60fps on switch. Heck, those would probably run fine in 4k@120Hz docked.

Oh yeah, less demanding games would definitely be able to do the full 120... I was just talking more about brand new AAA games