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I don't expect the OS to change much. New features, but the same layout, maybe themes.
I'm most hopeful for Quick Resume.
I also very much hope they don't change the layout and visuals too much. I think they're REALLY good.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
I'm most hopeful for Quick Resume.
I also very much hope they don't change the layout and visuals too much. I think they're REALLY good.
LuigiBlood
Mage Robot
I actually think the layout will change as a major differenciating factor, but also because of less technical limitations. I totally assume a lot of the Switch was defined because of technical limitations and considerations for being very fast to load and use.
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Even without (or with fewer) techincal limitations, these characteristics are welcome to stay with the Switch 2 OS.
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I think it also happens to be extremely easy to use as a consequence! I really don't want them to mess with something that isn't broken again.
I think there could be some changes but I don't really want them, except to accommodate new features, and think they can really only do so much without making something worse.
Though I also don't think the system software is a differentiating factor, it's something you don't really see until you have it and doesn't matter nearly as much as the games. Maybe slightly rounded icons and some extra shortcuts, maybe move News around (maybe showing below each game icon when you hover over them?). Not too much, and nothing that would make transferring my Groups from one system to the next unreasonable.
I very much imagine these systems will share much of their internal software - I.E., use the same OS. A smooth transition, a cross-gen period, I don't think they want to rock the boat too much. Just pushing it to 1080p and adding the new features would be enough for me.
LuigiBlood
Mage Robot
Oh I totally think it will stay, it was clearly in reaction to how the Wii U and 3DS was. Just that having a major upgrade in terms of power will make Nintendo try to fit more within those considerations, + fix problems that they deemed important to fix since the Switch.
I totally think Nintendo very well understood that what the Switch did was good and definitely want to keep that aspect in.
pelusilla6
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Its still strange that they wont announce it before january. At this point their final design and color is going to be leaked :O
The Competition
Octorok
Regarding pictures leaking, I THINK the Samsung Galaxy Fold 6 had no pictures leak out until maybe a few days or I think at most a couple of weeks before reveal and release.
Seems like this problem is solved, unless I'm missing something?
Seems like this problem is solved, unless I'm missing something?
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SMD
Bob-omb
"it looks similar to the switch and the colour is white/red/black/green/blue/yellow/purple/orange/grey*"
nothing changes if that leaks, i dont know why people still insist there's some sort of threat to nintendo by holding the reveal till after the new year.
*delete as appropriate
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Z0m3le
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about 1GB, leaving about 11GB for games, PS5 has about 13GB available for games, so the RAM difference isn't nearly as big as it seems.
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Sounds about right, the Wii U OS was 1GB and it was an absolute delight... with the downside of it being quite slow. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 1.2GB-1.5GB
LIC said it was 1-1,5 gb. Through some source he woudnt elaborate on.
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@Z0m3le answered but for reference, Switch uses 800mb of RAM for OS, so my expectation would probably be closer to 1GB than 1.5GB
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That's super good to hear, I trust LIC, he's one of the most trustworthy person, when it comes to Hardware.
Also why would the jump be small? one would expect Nintendo to use maybe 1.5GB-2GB of ram on the OS, mostly because the competitors are using 2GB-3GB for the OS, but Nintendo using 1GB of the OS is super good to hear
Whatever the devs want. One thing the camera has going for it is the tensor cores. We have come a long way since kinect. It'd be a damn good product these days and Drake could inherit that
Z0m3le
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The answer is that Switch 2 plays games, the OS has always been lean on Nintendo Switch, and there is little reason to believe Switch 2's OS which is based on Switch's iirc (this is from the Nvidia hack from 2022, please correct if wrong) will still focus mainly on offering its resources for games and not bloating out the OS like Sony and Microsoft have done.
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that's completely true and is part of Nintendo philosophy, despite the failing of the Wii , the OS was nicely tight and well optimised, but the biggest problem with the Wii U was ram limitation, if it had 4GB of ram at launch, then it would have been a different story.
Nintendo have overall less ram total. So they're making some of it back by keeping the OS more lightweight. That's part of it.
Another part of it, is the design philosophy of putting the games front and center. The OS is just a means to quickly get into the game.
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Those motion benefits could theoretically still happen, as there's still the strong possibility of the Motion Camera. An improved one on the controller could possibly enable such a thing, and being on the controller has the considerable benefit of not having to carefully position your Dock. Just take the controller, put it down with the camera facing you, and get to it.
That hope is still on the table!
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They actually don't next to Xbox! Series S has all the OS features of Xbox Series X, with <2GB of RAM. Which could mean a richness in features similar to that. And that is a lot!
For me that's the exciting part - that much RAM is enough to allow media apps to run without closing games, it's enough for Quick Resume, and high quality captures, and streaming.
The successor will have 1+GB of memory just for the system, which Nintendo made some pretty fantastic use of on Wii U. In supported regions, you could even stream, watch live TV and more, along with a fairly fully featured web browser.
I don't expect a browser from them ever again, but I think there is a possibility of opening up HOME Screen Apps (Applets) to developers, rather than just NSO, eShop and News. Discord, YouTube, Netflix, who knows. Between the existing ones, we know Switch CAN play HD media in the foreground with a game suspended, but Nintendo never allowed a third party in on that.
That's a big thing in my view, this OS is very much the same OS. Expanded, more features, maybe, but they aren't starting from scratch. I hope it inherits the "good stuff", and that includes being lean. But as many features as they can squeeze in without slowing it down would be nice.
wufuqin1999
Moblin
Banned
Alt of Aufhebung RPG - Zellia, MarcelRguez, WonderLuigi, Lord Azrael, KilgoreWolfe, meatbag
The Series S's system OS takes up 2.5GB, the same as the Series X.The ps5 is 3.5GB.
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That is incorrect, it launched using 2GB and has been reduced to ~1.7GB, just 200mb more than the successor is likely to use at its higher end, and having to manage Windows and HyperV under all that is a bigger lift than Nintendo's custom microkernel operating system.
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Source?
wufuqin1999
Moblin
Banned
Alt of Aufhebung RPG - Zellia, MarcelRguez, WonderLuigi, Lord Azrael, KilgoreWolfe, meatbag
You're definitely misremembering that the Series S has 10GB of RAM, which took up 2.5GB of system RAM when it first launched, and then became 2.2GB with a subsequent update.
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Post in thread 'Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)'
https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...-st-new-staff-post-please-read.55/post-676340
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22013076/vpavic_201103_4275_0252.jpg)
Microsoft gives Xbox Series S devs more memory to improve graphics performance
Some Xbox Series S games will get a performance boost.
www.theverge.com
I really thought this was known. 7.5GB for games would be simply awful and it's been discussed to death here.
I've read 8.3GB thrown around here and on Reddit, given the wording is "several hundred", 8.3GB seems like the minimum to qualify as "several hundred more" over 8.
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Again, untrue. It launched using 2GB, in fact it's a physically separate pool with different specifications.
wufuqin1999
Moblin
Banned
Alt of Aufhebung RPG - Zellia, MarcelRguez, WonderLuigi, Lord Azrael, KilgoreWolfe, meatbag
2GB isn't an exact number, I can confirm that the Series S has 2.5GB of system RAM.
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Half a gigabyte is quite a lot, not something a console maker or their tools would handwave about - however, the system physically has 2GB of slower system RAM and the system has been updated to use several hundred (more than 200MB) less than that since launch. Again, per Verge.
Edit: It's possible a developer can change settings to cut RAM use by the system down (much like they can on Switch) with 2.5GB being the maximum? But it's always used 2GB of system memory specifically designed to just be system memory.
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It "only" consumes a few dozen megabytes, with the system having access to roughly doubly the space and more efficient encoding, it should be more than possible to provide more capture options on the next system. Especially with Series S providing so many options AND having a heavier OS that's extremely feature rich (including a Chromium based browser).
OP
OP
A feature similar to Quick Resume also requires a fair amount of internal flash storage space to be reserved for the OS.
The Xbox Series X reserves 129 GB (931 GB - 802 GB) of internal flash storage space, and 148 GB for the Xbox Series S, for the OS, which includes Quick Resume, which can store save states for three Xbox Series X|S games.
Speaking of OS, I do wonder how long recorded videos can be, assuming much higher quality video compression from AV1 decode.
And although not related to the Nintendo Switch's successor, seeing a HDMI mod for the Nintendo Switch Lite is rather cool.
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I don't know what to believe. I seen the 7,5 gb number thrown around a lot as well. Guess there's no way to really verify.Post in thread 'Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)'
https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...-st-new-staff-post-please-read.55/post-676340
Microsoft gives Xbox Series S devs more memory to improve graphics performance
Some Xbox Series S games will get a performance boost.
I really thought this was known. 7.5GB for games would be simply awful and it's been discussed to death here.
I've read 8.3GB thrown around here and on Reddit, given the wording is "several hundred", 8.3GB seems like the minimum to qualify as "several hundred more" over 8.
Z0m3le
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Series S has 8GB of 224GB/s RAM and 2GB of 56GB/s of system ram. Developers have reportedly gained access to 100s of MBs of the much slower system RAM, but generally being a seperate pool, it's only used by people who absolutely need it for their ports. Most devs are going to target the single fast pool of 8GB and ignore the secondary pool of much slower RAM simply because it's easier. bottom line with Series S, Microsoft should have opted for 12GB of memory, much like their Xbox One X.
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True, however those systems store MANY resume states, three Xbox Series X|S titles, several more Xbox One, 360 and original Xbox titles.
I would only expect Nintendo's solution to allow one or two states, which should translate to something like 24GB at the high end, add formatted memory caps, and system storage, I could see us having 200-210GB available for installs even with Quick Resume. I think that would be a reasonable sacrifice given the utility.
Danny
Bounty Hunter
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Its pretty impressive that third parties have gone to such great lengths to port everything they can to series S, It would be impressive if Nintendo with the Switch 2 could finally be so compelling for third parties that they bother to port all their games, even though its a lot of work for them just like porting stuff to the RAM starved Series S must be.
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The fact Series S still has so many system software features EVEN WITH a bite taken out of system RAM is impressive to me, and an example of what we could see from Nintendo. I don't expect us to see as many features (since Xbox has a lot, not all of them useful), but it's what I'm thinking is probably the ceiling for feature richness.
Forgot to say in my other reply, I very much expect AV1 to be used and should make captures much higher quality without taking up too much extra space.
Also from personal experience, the amount for quick resume on Xbox is somewhat dynamic. I had games starting to work with quick resume after I cleared up some space.
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While the CPU limitations on the successor will surely mean some hard work for high end games, it does have the advantage of significantly more memory available to games than Series S - closer to PS5's reservation.
Danny
Bounty Hunter
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Yeah Switch 2 vs Xbox series S will be an interesting case study, is low amounts of RAM a less limiting factor for ports compared to CPU limitations? Given that Switch 2 will have CPU limitations and not RAM limitations like the Series S.
OP
OP
Assuming TSMC's 4N process node is indeed based on TSMC's N5P process node, TSMC does mention that TSMC's N5P process node can consume 15% less power at the same performance compared to TSMC's N5 process node. So the Cortex-A78 could consume ~0.372 W per CPU core on TSMC's 4N process node (vs ~0.438 W on TSMC's N5 process node).
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It truly depends on the game, but in GENERAL, more RAM makes things easier compared to more CPU performance, to a point. At least, that's my understanding.
The difference in CPU performance is something we don't know for certain. It could be within spitting distance, it could seriously suffer.
Z0m3le
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A lot of people will sight the CPU as being a problem for porting, but that shouldn't be the case as it's faster per clock than the Ryzen 2 CPUs found in PS5, though will likely have ~60% of the clock speed, leading to 2/3rds or better the performance of PS5's CPU. The RAM won't be an issue really, it is a high enough capacity and fast enough storage to manage ports. The GPU isn't vastly outclassed, in fact it will be better than Steam Deck's GPU even on the go and GPU performance is very scalable, so basically in handheld you have a PS4 with RTX features like DLSS and ray tracing being displayed on an 8 inch screen, and docked you have twice that performance, managing the low end of this generation, which also happens to be the target specs of Microsoft's cloud gaming, the Xbox Series S.
All of that to say, it will play everything and I fully expect to see a port of GTA6 on Switch 2, though it may be a year or two late, there is nothing holding it back from appearing on the platform, and Rockstar wants the widest audience possible for this game.
Danny
Bounty Hunter
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And what implications would that have for possible handheld and docked clocks for the Switch 2?
Z0m3le
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That clock is 2.1GHz, I was estimating on 2GHz.
2GHz at < 0.35mw per core times 7 cores is < 2.45w for the CPU. GPU will likely be somewhere around 1.1GHz when docked, and 500-600MHz when portable barring a boost mode.
OP
OP
Personally, I wouldn't mind if a Lite variant of the Nintendo Switch's successor has a mini HDMI port.
Do you remember the max amount of Xbox Series X|S save states you could cram in via Quick Resume?
My guess is that the CPU frequency for both handheld mode and TV mode will probably be in the range of 2 - 2.4 GHz.
I think you mean ~354.139 mW, which should be ~0.354 W.
I estimate at 2.4 GHz, the Cortex-A78 on TSMC's 4N process node consumes ~0.421 W per CPU core.
I think it depends how much demand the company believes it needs to generate. That's what the marketing cycle is about. Xbox might feel like it needs time to try to build awareness and change perceptions a little. Nintendo is perhaps feeling confident the demand is already there.
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