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Serious Free Palestine

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Branduil

Branduil

Bob-omb
The Palestinian people are currently suffering from a genocidal slaughter, waged by the state of Israel, which has already murdered more than 20,000 people, obliterated their infrastructure, committed countless war crimes, is deliberately committing mass starvation, deliberately targeting and murdering journalists and their families, and slaughtering children and babies in schools and hospitals. They do this with the full material support of Joe Biden and the United States military, which is backing up and supporting this genocide wholeheartedly.

Millions of people have risen up in protest worldwide, in defense of the Palestinian people and their right to live, despite personal risk from the state, employers, and psychos emboldened by government propaganda.

You can learn more about the history of Palestine and its current colonization here:

https://decolonizepalestine.com/

Please use this thread to share any news about the genocide in Gaza and the people who continue to live in occupied Palestine and struggle for freedom there.
 
Do not downplay calls for ceasefire by branding them as unrealistic. For this you are being banned for one week. - meatbag, Tangerine Cookie, xghost777, Volcanic Dynamo, big lantern ghost, MissingNo
It is heinous, yes, and part of my job is dealing with this type of thing so I won't go too in-depth, but it isn't as easy as everyone thinks screaming "ceasefire!". What Israel could do, of course, is not use indiscriminate bombing. They are highly irresponsible and disgusting at this point, but a ceasefire--point-blank--is not as realistic as people want it to be.

Will be voting for Joe Biden again as I am not a single-issue voter. Trump is running. In 2016 we made that mistake. Sorry, but democracy in my country with an interracial atheist family is priority. Our type will be the first to go in a Trump-run dictatorship. This will be my only comment on the matter, and I wish the best for the Palestinian people and have nothing but disgust toward the Israeli military--for really my entire life and especially now.
 
There is no defense of the state of Israel, and calling for anything less than an immediate ceasefire is a morally bankrupt position. Fuck the fence sitters and the equivicators, and fuck Genocide Joe. "Genocide is bad, but...", eat shit.
 
MeatheadSamus said:
It is heinous, yes, and part of my job is dealing with this type of thing so I won't go too in-depth, but it isn't as easy as everyone thinks screaming "ceasefire!". What Israel could do, of course, is not use indiscriminate bombing. They are highly irresponsible and disgusting at this point, but a ceasefire--point-blank--is not as realistic as people want it to be.

Will be voting for Joe Biden again as I am not a single-issue voter. Trump is running. In 2016 we made that mistake. Sorry, but democracy in my country with an interracial atheist family is priority. Our type will be the first to go in a Trump-run dictatorship. This will be my only comment on the matter, and I wish the best for the Palestinian people and have nothing but disgust toward the Israeli military--for really my entire life and especially now.
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Calling for ceasefire is the bare minimum. If someone can't even do that then they are no different than people who actively support Israel's genocide.
 
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

And may all the architects, perpetrators, enablers and cheerleaders of genocide get exactly what they deserve.
 
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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A lot of Zionists view it that way, certainly. But it's a call to liberation, not extermination, and I won't apologise for using it.
 
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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well good thing it isn't, in the same way the slogan Black Lives Matter didn't mean that White lives didn't matter.
It's just a way from malicious parties to try and quiet down support for a ceasefire and Palestinian being in control of their own lives and being treated as humans.
 


Yoko Taro is right : do your part, join protests even if you think they are worthless, that you are just a drop in the ocean. Please stay vocal about the issue. Don't normalize this shit. Hopefully one day Palestinians will be able to live freely.
 
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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Do you honestly believe the people in this thread are using that to mean extermination? Come on.

Bad faith actors be in bad faith all the time, but they shouldn't be allowed to co-opt calls for freedom.
 
Zellia said:
A lot of Zionists view it that way, certainly. But it's a call to liberation, not extermination, and I won't apologise for using it.
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Im not saying I agree or disagree with that view on the slogan, just that a lot of people view that slogan in that view. I personally have no opinion on that slogan.

Im personally on the Palestinian side, but if saying that slogan gives the Palestinian cause negativity, I won't use it.
 
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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Crybaby Zionists view it like that, maybe.

I’m Jewish and I have no patience for those who view Palestinian liberation that way.
 
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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Criticized by people who condone the actions of Israel, yes. That is not at all how the phrase should be interpreted.
 
More than 8,000 children have been murdered in Gaza so far.

More than 8,663 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in Gaza since October 7, according to the government media office, which added that thousands more are missing under the rubble amid relentless bombardment.


An overwhelming number of more than 21,000 people killed in the nearly three months of Israeli bombardment, which is the most destructive in recent history, have been civilians. Israel has repeatedly targeted schools and even neo-natal care centres were have not been spared, resulting in the killing of newborn babies.


According to Save the Children data in early November, a child was being killed every 10 minutes. The UN has called the besieged Palestinian enclave “a graveyard” for children due to the high casualty figures.
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fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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The same people deliberately misreading that slogan have no problem with families in Gaza being erased with bombs every day, it's a bad-faith lie by people who support a genocide of their own. Anyone arguing that "Palestine will be free" requires the genocide of Jewish people is just revealing their own anti-semitism and/or exclusionary ethnic nationalism.
 
I do what I can by talking with people about this and raising awareness as much as I can with people who are potentially open to it, but man, it's utterly depressing when some of them just don't care and without thinking twice are like: "Well, if Hamas never attacked, no bombs would be dropping." Ignoring that not only have these bombs been dropping for decades now, but the West Bank at the moment also is also under fire and there's no reason whatsoever for Israel to operate over there if the entire supposedly point of this attack is eliminating Hamas, yet there they are.
fantomena said:
Just FYI, a lot of people view that slogan as a slogan for the extermination of all Jews and the state of Israel. The slogan has been heavily criticized the past few months.
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I'm sorry for how this might come across, but fuck them. The Israeli government is indiscriminately bombing the living hell out of Gaza (again, that's ignoring the stuff they've been doing in the West Bank) and the people that genuinely think it's a call for the complete and utter extermination of the Jewish people are either acting in bad faith or are Zionist. The people in both sides of the Palestinian territories deserve their freedom and equality with the rest instead of being tormented purely for existing..
 
if during a time when 22000 innocent palestinians (including over 8000 children) have been murdered by israel your first instinct is to protect the feelings of zionists and settler colonialists, FUCK YOU

from the river to the sea, palestine will be free
 
So, upon reflection, I do agree that a ceasefire is not realistic.
Quoting Nathan Thrall on his recentish interview with Adam Conover,

"Our eyes are rightfully on Gaza now... But often, our eyes are on that and what we say is, "Let's restore calm. Let's get a ceasefire, let's restore calm." And I wanted to write a book about the calm. This quote-unquote calm, which is a deeply violent system, and to explain that unless we address the injustice of the calm, we are never going to see an end to this bloodshed."

A status quo of occupation and oppression cannot be maintained without horrific violence on all sides. On some level, this is understood by pretty much everyone.
 
catonkatonk said:
So, upon reflection, I do agree that a ceasefire is not realistic.
Quoting Nathan Thrall on his recentish interview with Adam Conover,

"Our eyes are rightfully on Gaza now... But often, our eyes are on that and what we say is, "Let's restore calm. Let's get a ceasefire, let's restore calm." And I wanted to write a book about the calm. This quote-unquote calm, which is a deeply violent system, and to explain that unless we address the injustice of the calm, we are never going to see an end to this bloodshed."

A status quo of occupation and oppression cannot be maintained without horrific violence on all sides. On some level, this is understood by pretty much everyone.
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How much blood will be enough, you ghoul?
 
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catonkatonk said:
So, upon reflection, I do agree that a ceasefire is not realistic.
Quoting Nathan Thrall on his recentish interview with Adam Conover,

"Our eyes are rightfully on Gaza now... But often, our eyes are on that and what we say is, "Let's restore calm. Let's get a ceasefire, let's restore calm." And I wanted to write a book about the calm. This quote-unquote calm, which is a deeply violent system, and to explain that unless we address the injustice of the calm, we are never going to see an end to this bloodshed."

A status quo of occupation and oppression cannot be maintained without horrific violence on all sides. On some level, this is understood by pretty much everyone.
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How about we deal with the injustice of the calm while it’s calm and at least the bullets and bombs aren’t flying, rather than when thousands of people are dying. A humanitarian catastrophe is hard enough to deal with without airstrikes on civilian infrastructure and refugee camps. It’s better to seek a peace that’ll work long term in the middle of a wildly imperfect peace. Than to try to do so in the middle of open destruction because an imperfect ceasefire isn’t good enough for armchair observers who aren’t there, suffering and watching their families dying minute by minute while bread and clean water are now luxuries.
 
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Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
How much blood will be enough, you ghoul? How about you reflect on what a little piece of shit you are?
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What I am saying is that a ceasefire as commonly understood will not be an end to the bloodshed, because it returns to an inherently violent status quo. If we all agree that people being murdered is bad, then we need to further the conversation, to admit the failure of past and current approaches and arrive at an equilibrium where people can live freely and in peace.

On the day that Israel that withdraws, the world turns away, and the conversation, on a global level, largely ends. This has been happening for decades.
 
catonkatonk said:
What I am saying is that a ceasefire as commonly understood will not be an end to the bloodshed, because it returns to an inherently violent status quo. If we all agree that people being murdered is bad, then we need to further the conversation, to admit the failure of past and current approaches and arrive at an equilibrium where people can live freely and in peace.

On the day that Israel that withdraws, the world turns away, and the conversation, on a global level, largely ends. This has been happening for decades
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The need for further action and change does not invalidate the need for a ceasefire. I don't think anyone here means "return to status quo" when they call for an immediate cease fire.
 
Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
The need for further action and change does not invalidate the need for a ceasefire. I don't think anyone here means "return to status quo" when they call for an immediate cease fire.
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Not here, no.

But I think, largely, that is what people mean.
They want Israel to stop shelling Gaza at its current intensity and withdraw.
And that's it.

These are, mostly, the extent of the demands being made. And even then, that's too much for most western governments to actually make.

And I understand, of course, that step one is, "lay down your arms", but the problem has been that every ceasefire in the past has been, at best, a pause, but mostly, just a quietening of the aggression.
We need to demand more than that.
 
catonkatonk said:
Not here, no.
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Than what's your point? Why come in here saying a cease fire is unrealistic.
catonkatonk said:
But I think, largely, that is what people mean.
They want Israel to stop shelling Gaza at its current intensity and withdraw.
And that's it
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Citation needed on this one. I don't think this is what people want at all. I mean, there are widespread calls for Palestinian freedom and an end to apartheid and colonialism.Before any other progress can be made, they kinda have to stop the ethnic cleansing.
 
Phosphorescent Skeleton said:
Than what's your point? Why come in here saying a cease fire is unrealistic.
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I think a ceasefire is unrealistic because my understanding of what is meant by the term is as I've outlined above. That is generally what I believe people mean. Egypt's proposal was for a series of prisoner exchanges and an attempt at unifying West Bank and Gaza authority, for example.
There has not been serious international effort in brokering actual peace since the Oslo accords. Everything since then has been utterly hollow. We have had flashpoints, calls for peace, temporary cessation of hostilities, a situation of apartheid resulting in violent outburst, resulting in violent reaction, and so on, and so forth. This is the perspective from which both the Israeli government and Hamas are operating: There isn't a realistic belief that stopping the immediate violence will lead to talks, because the idea of actually talking has been ruled out. So that leaves the status quo. Which, actually, neither party wants.

My thinking is this: A real cease fire is an iron-clad commitment to the cessation of violence, and apartheid is inherently violent. Obviously a system of apartheid does not disappear overnight. But there needs to be something in the interim. For example, UN presence replacing Israeli military presence at checkpoints and overseeing the control and co-ordination of the occupied territories. International involvement in general. A roadmap of a contiguous nation of Palestine that people can actually believe might exist someday. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is, but I know that past cease fires have not resulted in the conversations that need to happen.

To be clear, that doesn't mean that I'm saying there shouldn't be a cease-fire even of the kind I described above. I'm not saying "it's imperfect so it shouldn't happen." But I think it's unrealistic. Realistic meaning, something that lasts. I don't think it ends the violence. It doesn't start a conversation. And I feel I can say that because, well, it hasn't. It provably hasn't. For years now.
 
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catonkatonk said:
I think a ceasefire is unrealistic because my understanding of what is meant by the term is as I've outlined above. That is generally what I believe people mean. Egypt's proposal was for a series of prisoner exchanges and an attempt at unifying West Bank and Gaza authority, for example.
There has not been serious international effort in brokering actual peace since the Oslo accords. Everything since then has been utterly hollow. We have had flashpoints, calls for peace, temporary cessation of hostilities, a situation of apartheid resulting in violent outburst, resulting in violent reaction, and so on, and so forth. This is the perspective from which both the Israeli government and Hamas are operating: There isn't a realistic belief that stopping the immediate violence will lead to talks, because the idea of actually talking has been ruled out. So that leaves the status quo. Which, actually, neither party wants.

My thinking is this: A real cease fire is an iron-clad commitment to the cessation of violence, and apartheid is inherently violent. Obviously a system of apartheid does not disappear overnight. But there needs to be something in the interim. For example, UN presence replacing Israeli military presence at checkpoints and overseeing the control and co-ordination of the occupied territories. International involvement in general. A roadmap of a contiguous nation of Palestine that people can actually believe might exist someday. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is, but I know that past cease fires have not resulted in the conversations that need to happen.

To be clear, that doesn't mean that I'm saying there shouldn't be a cease-fire even of the kind I described above. I'm not saying "it's imperfect so it shouldn't happen." But I think it's unrealistic. Realistic meaning, something that lasts. I don't think it ends the violence. It doesn't start a conversation. And I feel I can say that because, well, it hasn't. It provably hasn't. For years now.
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At this point long-term solutions are a problem for further down the line, what’s needed is an immediate ceasefire so medical and humanitarian agencies (plus efforts from various countries) can get in to try and deal with basic human needs- like the lack of potable water supplies, food, shelter, medical needs, the amount of bodies in the rubble, the amount of dispossessed people, sewage. Israel’s failure to address this immediately will lead to an even greater disaster on a colossal scale. We can philosophise over decades of failed solutions and new options once people have been allowed to stabilise the mass humanitarian disaster that Israel is responsible for due to its complete lack of restraint and collective punishment. That immediate disaster in one of the most heavily populated places on earth is what needs focusing on right now. Not that the situation in Palestine wasn’t desperately brutal before, but now it’s a ticking clock before people are dying of dyssentry, starvation, thirst, exposure and lack of medical supplies, despite the wealthy nation that’s been killing these civilians having the wealthiest countries on the planet on speed dial.
 
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catonkatonk said:
My thinking is this: A real cease fire is an iron-clad commitment to the cessation of violence, and apartheid is inherently violent. Obviously a system of apartheid does not disappear overnight. But there needs to be something in the interim. For example, UN presence replacing Israeli military presence at checkpoints and overseeing the control and co-ordination of the occupied territories. International involvement in general. A roadmap of a contiguous nation of Palestine that people can actually believe might exist someday. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is, but I know that past cease fires have not resulted in the conversations that need to happen.
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A ceasefire is a temporary stoppage of hostilities. What you are describing here is a peace process - a different thing - and you're putting the cart before the horse.

A ceasefire is the absolute bare minimum we should expect, because people are dying right now, and ceasing the genocide and allowing aid in is a better situation than leaving them to die.
 
Branduil said:
Once again the Biden administration is prioritizing the funding and material support of genocide above all other concerns:

The Biden administration once again bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel

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So many instances that Biden could have used executive authority for direct action: climate emergency, protecting abortion rights, LGBTQ protections, addressing hate crimes and systemic racism, student debt cancellation... always refusing, under the pretense that he simply doesn't have the authority or it would be contested. Yet when it comes to funding genocide, he has no problem using his authority. And where any of those mentioned actions would be met with immediate resistance, not a single word from congress here. Disgusting.

Free Palestine.
 
So, did they really just casually announced their plans to go reoccupy Gaza and make new settlements? Because, how has this just flown under the radar?!
 
Shadow said:
So, did they really just casually announced their plans to go reoccupy Gaza and make new settlements? Because, how has this just flown under the radar?!
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They know they can get away with it, Netanyahu could not be happier with the Hamas attack, the US, even under Biden, isn't doing anything beyond "hey, buddy, killing thousands of innocent children isn't cool but here's more weapons and money anyway", with the US having demonstrated that there is pretty much nothing that would make them stop supporting Israel, it's beyond fucked.
So sad and depressing.
 
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Might as well post this here:

721d6307-dfd6-4a34-8d6e-fa3ebdc34b82.png


Be there or be square.

I know I'll be there.
 
Zellia said:
The UK government also joined in on the strikes without convening Parliament.
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Unfortunately there is no shortage of morons willing to defend the west bombing people in the Middle East regardless of how ineffective and obviously evil it is.
 
"Nobody will stop us, not the Hague" is definitely something you say when you're the good guys.
 
Shadow said:


I mean... What's there left to say when he admits he doesn't care regardless of what the ruling will be...
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Just here to say that, while Netanyahu is a fascist and deserves nothing but to be thrown in the trash can of history once he finally loses an election, the Israeli settler-colonial project will not end when he is gone. The Israeli project needs the displacement and the death of the Palestinians to be complete. This has been the case with Netanyahu and with Golda Meir.
 
I was at a pro-Palestine protest recently in D.C.

We had 400,000 people, according to various reports.
 
@Branduil

Wow, check this out:



Call turns into a lot of talk on what's happening in Gaza and the genocide there.

I highly recommend subscribing to this YouTube channel as they're pretty legit too.
 
We should hear the result of the ICJ trail Friday, legit somewhat anxious to the result since we already know at least a number will vote against the case.
 
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I’m not expecting much from the ICJ but the fact that it’s happening is hopefully a start at least.
 
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Looks like the ICJ has ruled in favour of SA's petition and ordered Israel to prevent genocide.

IANAL but seems like at least a partial victory for SA and Palestine? Hopefully there's legal analysis of this soon - seems a bit late to tell them to 'prevent' genocide but I don't know enough about the legal language here.

I expect Israel will just call the ICJ anti-Semitic and continue business as usual though.
 
Zellia said:
Looks like the ICJ has ruled in favour of SA's petition and ordered Israel to prevent genocide.

IANAL but seems like at least a partial victory for SA and Palestine? Hopefully there's legal analysis of this soon - seems a bit late to tell them to 'prevent' genocide but I don't know enough about the legal language here.

I expect Israel will just call the ICJ anti-Semitic and continue business as usual though.
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It doesn't matter, Israel will ignore it and carry on with their genocide regardless due to the unconditional support from the USA.
So depressing.
 
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