Discussion Does Gamefreak have a reason to care about graphics in Pokemon?

[EddyZacianLand]

Honest question, have you played PLA?

I'm actually shocked at how good it looks in handheld mode sometimes.

Yeah I have, I like how it looks, I am just using what reviewers and other fans have said as like a devil's advocate.

So, @EddyZacianLand, let's be clear - these are your opinions, right?

If not, you're batting pretty hard for some made up devil's advocate.

These are all things I have read online and have heard in reviews when people talk about Pokemon, nome of what I have said is made up.

 

[Deleted member 2]

Yeah I have, I like how it looks, I am just using what reviewers and other fans have said as like a devil's advocate.

These are all things I have read online and have heard in reviews when people talk about Pokemon, nome of what I have said is made up.

I'm not suggesting you made it up, I'm suggesting you agree with them and are trying to argue for them

 

[EddyZacianLand]

I'm not suggesting you made it up, I'm suggesting you agree with them and are trying to argue for them

I really don't, I like the graphics but I don't have the knowledge to know exactly why the graphics is bs and therefore can't argue against it.

My thinking for this was that many people think Arceus looks ugly but Gamefreak don't have a reason to make it look good in their eyes right? So that has to be bs and I thought the only way to get the arguments against those criticisms is just say them myself.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I really don't, I like the graphics but I don't have the knowledge to know exactly why the graphics is bs and therefore can't argue against it.

My thinking for this was that many people think Arceus looks ugly but Gamefreak don't have a reason to make it look good in their eyes right? So that has to be bs and I thought the only way to get the arguments against those criticisms is just say them myself.

I think Game Freak made it good enough for what they envisioned.

I personally think the game looks like a beautiful cartoon, and I enjoy running around and looking at everything especially in the Obsidian Fields. What about you?

 

[EddyZacianLand]

I think Game Freak made it good enough for what they envisioned.

I personally think the game looks like a beautiful cartoon, and I enjoy running around and looking at everything especially in the Obsidian Fields. What about you?

I haven't played much yet as I have been feeling ill for most of this week but so far the areas look the greatest it has ever been.

 

[xV_twist]

But then why don't the games look as good as say BOTW then?

Do ya'll forget that Gamefreak only started making 3d pkmn games a generation ago. Clearly they still learning and improving at a very good pace.
Legends is not that far away from what could be a really good looking game.

I haven't bought the game yet but from what I've seen, animations seems to be improving too which is the main thing I've always wanted to be improved the most. Next, I hope voice acting is in their future plans.

 

[Twinsen]

I just wonder how they're so bad at it. Doesn't fit their position as a long going development team with experience at all. Indie games on switch often look better.

 

[Ahmed]

As long as the development cycle for Pokémon games isn't so short, there will never be a "good" looking/performing game.

Though it's been said that Legends had a longer development cycle, but it still doesn't look good. We won't know for sure, I just think this is the best GF can manage to make their games look good.

 

[Leo]

I think Pokemon's graphics are fine for their scope/hardware. You can't find comparable games with much better graphics except by incredibly talented internal teams like Zelda's.

I don't know what people are expecting, honestly.

 

[MusicProposition]

I think Pokemon's graphics are fine for their scope/hardware. You can't find comparable games with much better graphics except by incredibly talented internal teams like Zelda's.

I don't know what people are expecting, honestly.

I’d agree if this was some second-row IP, but Pokémon is one of the most profitable franchises ever, and I think it’s fair to expect a bit more. Even talking about scope/hardware you’re gonna find many better looking titles, Monster Hunter for example.

 

[Xaltmas]

Graphics are fine IMO. With more powerful hardware in the future I'd like the focus to be on draw-distance, textures, resolution, frame-rate, etc.

 

[Lucifer]

I can't tell you your opinion is wrong of course, I just vehemently disagree. I think PLA has a great art style that helps cover up the issues with draw distance and things in the background in general.

Personally I'm finding myself very rarely looking at the background in general so I think they made the right choice to dial back those settings in order to preserve a steady framerate.

There was an attempt but it ends up looking like an amateur Zelda IMO, there are some elements in the game that look good, but there's too many things that go wrong which shows how unoptimised the game is and it takes me out of the experience, It's really not just things far in the background. It has little to do with the hardware when other devs achieve way better results, they have released multiple unoptimised games at this point.

I feel like I'm giving the impression that I am super critical of graphics, which I'm really not. But it just saddens me to see a franchise I love go on like this when they absolutely can deliver quality in both visuals and gameplay (which is also lacking) if they wanted to, and whether that lies with TPC or GF, I don't know... but something is going wrong there.

People forget they made sword/shield, their first hd pokemon in 3 years while developing 5 other games at the same time, with a team of 150,incredible prolific team,meanwhile botw team still havent released their second switch game,its like they say :

Very valid point, I'm all for having one Pokemon game every few years, quality >>>> quantity. They could also hire people that are experienced in making 3D/HD games if the lack of experience is an issue.

I think Pokemon's graphics are fine for their scope/hardware. You can't find comparable games with much better graphics except by incredibly talented internal teams like Zelda's.

I don't know what people are expecting, honestly.

Monster Hunter and the Xenoblades also look way better, it's not just Zelda. I'm honestly baffled expectations are so low for one of the biggest of not the biggest franchise in the world that basically prints money, they're not an indie dev it's ok to expect quality that's on par with other big franchises.

 

[Guaraná]

this thread smells like the purple place.

 

[Leo]

I’d agree if this was some second-row IP, but Pokémon is one of the most profitable franchises ever, and I think it’s fair to expect a bit more. Even talking about scope/hardware you’re gonna find many better looking titles, Monster Hunter for example.

Monster Hunter and the Xenoblades also look way better, it's not just Zelda. I'm honestly baffled expectations are so low for one of the biggest of not the biggest franchise in the world that basically prints money, they're not an indie dev it's ok to expect quality that's on par with other big franchises.

Game Freak is also very new to HD development, their first HD games were Pokémon LGPE only three years ago. They had to learn how to make HD games while also considerably increasing the scope of their games, all of that working in 3 games in a span of 5 years or so. You can't really expect them to put out stuff on the same level as Monolith and the Monster Hunter team, who are both very experienced HD developers and take a lot of time to make games.

I have no doubt they will get better as they get more experience, specially in stuff like textures and draw distance which seems to be their main struggle now and are things you can fix. I would expect more polish, but not necessarily more high fidelity or detailed graphics because the current style fits very well for Pokémon and is within their limitations.

Now the argument would probably move on to the usual "they should have longer dev cycles then" but that's another discussion. Considering their current workframe, they are doing a fine job.

Also, IMO, graphics are the last thing they should focus on improving, I want them to get more ambitious with scope, content and gameplay. SwSh is a fine looking game, but was abysmal in terms of gameplay. Legends is a major step forward on that front, so I really couldn't care less if the graphics aren't that much better. The best games in the franchise aren't remebered fondly for their technical prowess, but because they showered the player with ridiculous amounts of high quality content.

 

[maniacmaison]

People tend to forget that Sun and Moon are among the best looking 3DS games (yeah, with some frame drops) and a big step up from XY. We’ve seen the same in the Switch: every game developed internally stepped up their game a bit, and it’s undeniable that Legends is the most advanced one.

I took this photo last night:

I really really think gen 9 is going to be, at least, a very good looking game, and potentially a showcase for the original Switch (if we follow the DS and 3DS Pokemon games trend).

 

[Linkstrikesback]

But then why don't the games look as good as say BOTW then?

Because you can either have lots of models at a bit of lower quality, or a few models but the ones you do have at higher quality.

Pokemon has hundreds of different creatures to model, BOTW had about 30 between all enemy types combined.

Game Freak is also very new to HD development, their first HD games were Pokémon LGPE only three years ago. They had to learn how to make HD games while also considerably increasing the scope of their games, all of that working in 3 games in a span of 5 years or so. You can't really expect them to put out stuff on the same level as Monolith and the Monster Hunter team, who are both very experienced HD developers and take a lot of time to make games.

Gamefreaks first HD game was Tembo the Badass Elephant back in 2015.

 

[Skittzo]

People tend to forget that Sun and Moon are among the best looking 3DS games (yeah, with some frame drops) and a big step up from XY. We’ve seen the same in the Switch: every game developed internally stepped up their game a bit, and it’s undeniable that Legends is the most advanced one.

I took this photo last night:

I really really think gen 9 is going to be, at least, a very good looking game, and potentially a showcase for the original Switch (if we follow the DS and 3DS Pokemon games trend).

That's a fantastic screenshot. The clean art style really works wonders for this game, plus the skybox.

 

[Lucifer]

Game Freak is also very new to HD development, their first HD games were Pokémon LGPE only three years ago. They had to learn how to make HD games while also considerably increasing the scope of their games, all of that working in 3 games in a span of 5 years or so. You can't really expect them to put out stuff on the same level as Monolith and the Monster Hunter team, who are both very experienced HD developers and take a lot of time to make games.

I have no doubt they will get better as they get more experience, specially in stuff like textures and draw distance which seems to be their main struggle now and are things you can fix. I would expect more polish, but not necessarily more high fidelity or detailed graphics because the current style fits very well for Pokémon and is within their limitations.

Now the argument would probably move on to the usual "they should have longer dev cycles then" but that's another discussion. Considering their current workframe, they are doing a fine job.

Also, IMO, graphics are the last thing they should focus on improving, I want them to get more ambitious with scope, content and gameplay. SwSh is a fine looking game, but was abysmal in terms of gameplay. Legends is a major step forward on that front, so I really couldn't care less if the graphics aren't that much better. The best games in the franchise aren't remebered fondly for their technical prowess, but because their showered the player with ridiculous amounts of high quality content.

I'd argue longer dev cycles, expanding the team and budget, and setting different priorities are very relevant points in this discussion that shouldn't be dismissed. Otherwise the discussion would just be about buts.

I understand why their games are unoptimised, but I feel it's also fair to critique without the buts just like we do with any game really. Obviously with realistic expectations, we shouldn't expect the quality of an open world Zelda game form an indie dev, but Pokemom isn't coming from an indie dev. They have finances to deliver a higher quality product. And I'm not saying it should be exactly on Zelda's level, but I think it's fair to expect texture work in 2022 that doesn't wear into N64 quality for example.

I completely agree with your last point except I feel the jump in gameplay quality is small when the novelty of the new gameplay loop wears off, if that wasn't the case I probably would have been less critical of this game, I just find it unoptimised overall both in terms of gameplay and visuals, it's yet another Pokemon game that doesn't reach its full potential IMO.

 

[MusicProposition]

Game Freak is also very new to HD development, their first HD games were Pokémon LGPE only three years ago. They had to learn how to make HD games while also considerably increasing the scope of their games, all of that working in 3 games in a span of 5 years or so. You can't really expect them to put out stuff on the same level as Monolith and the Monster Hunter team, who are both very experienced HD developers and take a lot of time to make games.

I have no doubt they will get better as they get more experience, specially in stuff like textures and draw distance which seems to be their main struggle now and are things you can fix. I would expect more polish, but not necessarily more high fidelity or detailed graphics because the current style fits very well for Pokémon and is within their limitations.

Now the argument would probably move on to the usual "they should have longer dev cycles then" but that's another discussion. Considering their current workframe, they are doing a fine job.

Also, IMO, graphics are the last thing they should focus on improving, I want them to get more ambitious with scope, content and gameplay. SwSh is a fine looking game, but was abysmal in terms of gameplay. Legends is a major step forward on that front, so I really couldn't care less if the graphics aren't that much better. The best games in the franchise aren't remebered fondly for their technical prowess, but because they showered the player with ridiculous amounts of high quality content.

Game freak being new to HD development should not be an excuse for anything. First, it’s not 4K or VR, it’s HD graphics which should be in the realm of possibilities for any major development studio.

I agree with your point that Legends is a big step up from Sw/Sh. But you’re saying that you wish for even more ambitious scope/gameplay. I don’t think that’s helpful: if anything, Legends shows that even that game is TOO ambitious for their graphics systems to handle. In my opinion, they should use this game as a foundation, focus on their next game and take much more time. Whenever a game gets delayed, people quote Miyamoto and say that the game will profit from the delay. Where are these people now? You could’ve easily waited 6+ months more with this game and worked on the many technical issues it has. Floating objects, low-res shadows, terrible field of view, pop-ins even with already rendered objects, black screens to cover for missing character interactions/animations, no voice acting, muddy textures and so on and so on. These are not HD development issues, it’s stuff that any development studio would avoid.

 

[tender]

game freak tends to improve substantially after their first forays on a new platform ie compare xy to sumo or dpp to bw and bw2.

i was also super down on pla in screenshots but when you play it, the art style makes a lot more sense and it looks pretty nice. i think gen 9 will probably be a substantial step up over sns and probably will refine the improvements made in pla.

so yah, they care.

i am also excited to see what happens with their projects between pla and gen 9. i am assuming they'll finish that "town" game they showed and that could give hints at what gen 9 is trending to look like.

 

[SlightlyMadGames]

Pokémon-Legends: Arceus looks great in my Opinion

Everyone who is really passionate about Graphics and FPS should not buy a Nintendo Switch and therefore should not expect graphical Marvel's on the Nintendo Switch. The Nintendo Switch is about Art Style and Direction.

 

[Noise]

if there's one thing i know about nintendo, is that they have always gone out of there way to prioritize graphics above everything else. they'd rather a game look good thank be fun to play. frankly i am astonished at the level of graphcis we have seen in pokemon legend arcsys. a far cry from when nintendo actually cared about graphics back in the mid 2000s with the wii. do better reggie

 

[Lucifer]

Pokémon-Legends: Arceus looks great in my Opinion

Everyone who is really passionate about Graphics and FPS should not buy a Nintendo Switch and therefore should not expect graphical Marvel's on the Nintendo Switch. The Nintendo Switch is about Art Style and Direction.

Hard disagree there, there are graphical marvels on the Switch and even several 60fps games. Nintendo is very good at visuals and art styles.

 

[Clix]

We've been saying this since X/Y, it's always the next game lmao.

I mean, no? Who is this "we". Sun and Moon looked very nice for a 3DS game, with a very well designed world that not only looked like a living world with Pokemon actually showcasing their functions living with humans, but it had great art style as well. It was leagues above X/Y.

And while I know it was very divisive, Let's Go at least look really darn polished.

 

[Vantell]

hardware is not the problem here

It is when you aren't the best in optimising. GameFreak is somehow still getting used to the Nintendo Switch or console format and seems to have time constraints to finish a game. If there was a stronger machine I feel they can do better.

A lot of people seem to shit on GameFreak but at the same time I feel that they have hard deadlines because they are being pushed by The Pokémon Company. GameFreak's team is talented in a certain way but seems to fall short when you compare it to other studio's within Nintendo's portfolio.

I hope that Pokémon slowly gets given to other developers so they can experiment with the game as well.

In my opinion, I think that Legends Arceus is fine but there are definitely rough edges here and there. But when somebody asks me to name five games to recommend a Nintendo Switch user I would definitely recommend this game over the other Pokémon games on the system.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

The premise of this thread is a bit weird. Many of the issues stem from a lack of resources, experience, time etc. which are largely self-inflicted because the Pokémon machine can never be turned off but they've made attempts to mitigate some of these factors which they wouldn't have if they didn't "care".

 

[Lucifer]

I mean, no? Who is this "we". Sun and Moon looked very nice for a 3DS game, with a very well designed world that not only looked like a living world with Pokemon actually showcasing their functions living with humans, but it had great art style as well. It was leagues above X/Y.

And while I know it was very divisive, Let's Go at least look really darn polished.

I meant in both terms of gameplay and visuals, Pokemon seems to have this ''this was a test/experiment, just wait for the next one'' - thing going on for a while now, just my observation. Seen many people agree with this point as well.

Sun & Moon looked good generally I agree, but also had issues with textures like all the other 3DS Pokemon games.

Let's Go looked really good, it actually made me feel like I was playing the anime, it had a great art style, all it lacked was self shadowing to top it off but that's a minor complaint.

that's one GB remake that looks good and polished out of their Switch line-up.

 

[Vantell]

To add to the Pokémon IP. I am actually starting to advocate the Dexit. With a smaller number of Pokémon they can focus re-making the models and moves slowly. I hope that Legends can be a series that gives the GF the time to catch up on all Pokémon and give them some cool moves.

Honestly the animations in this game have been great and some of the best (flamethrower is life)

 

[Lucifer]

To add to the Pokémon IP. I am actually starting to advocate the Dexit. With a smaller number of Pokémon they can focus re-making the models and moves slowly. I hope that Legends can be a series that gives the GF the time to catch up on all Pokémon and give them some cool moves.

Honestly the animations in this game have been great and some of the best (flamethrower is life)

Animations in this game are a step up from previous games, definitely, Pokemon feel less like lifeless models dropped in a battle.

I don't think they need to re-make all the models, they're already pretty good actually, at worst they could just use some small touch ups. Moves could use some redone animations.

 

[ILikeFeet]

It is when you aren't the best in optimising. GameFreak is somehow still getting used to the Nintendo Switch or console format and seems to have time constraints to finish a game. If there was a stronger machine I feel they can do better.

that can lead to bad development practices, like forgoing optimization in leu of letting over abundance of hardware to take care of it. it's a quick and easy fix the first time, but if you're next game is bigger, it leads to a tech debt that needs to be paid

legends is far from the ugly game people make it out to be. the biggest issues I've noticed are some artistic ones (the glossiness and purple shadows), some that show a lack of experience (the tiling textures, this could be solved if they blended a larger tiling texture with the smaller tiling texture), and hardware related (draw distance, especially when flying). fixing the first two solves a whole lot of "bad graphics" complaints

 

[Vantell]

that can lead to bad development practices, like forgoing optimization in leu of letting over abundance of hardware to take care of it. it's a quick and easy fix the first time, but if you're next game is bigger, it leads to a tech debt that needs to be paid

legends is far from the ugly game people make it out to be. the biggest issues I've noticed are some artistic ones (the glossiness and purple shadows), some that show a lack of experience (the tiling textures, this could be solved if they blended a larger tiling texture with the smaller tiling texture), and hardware related (draw distance, especially when flying). fixing the first two solves a whole lot of "bad graphics" complaints

Oh I agree. I think some of the shadows are weird. My gf even questioned the purple trees at some point. But also the Pokéball that looks weird when you catch Pokémon in the water.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Oh I agree. I think some of the shadows are weird. My gf even questioned the purple trees at some point. But also the Pokéball that looks weird when you catch Pokémon in the water.

that I chalk up to hardware. switch is terrible when it comes to transparencies low bandwidth, few cpu/gpu resources will bring the system to its knees when there's too much alpha. not even other systems are immune to it

 

[Clix]

I meant in both terms of gameplay and visuals, Pokemon seems to have this ''this was a test/experiment, just wait for the next one'' - thing going on for a while now, just my observation. Seen many people agree with this point as well.

Sun & Moon looked good generally I agree, but also had issues with textures like all the other 3DS Pokemon games.

Let's Go looked really good, it actually made me feel like I was playing the anime, it had a great art style, all it lacked was self shadowing to top it off but that's a minor complaint.

that's one GB remake that looks good and polished out of their Switch line-up.

I mean, for most 3DS games textures were an issue IMO aside from some games, like yet again Next Level with Luigi's Mansion

 

[TurtleRock]

Monster Hunter and the Xenoblades also look way better, it's not just Zelda. I'm honestly baffled expectations are so low for one of the biggest of not the biggest franchise in the world that basically prints money, they're not an indie dev it's ok to expect quality that's on par with other big franchises.

Why are you so baffled. Both Monster Hunter and Xenoblade DE were in development for longer than Legends was. You’re asking for a miracle given the limited time frame Gamefreak is given to make games. If you’re going to compare this to other games take a step back and actually look at how long other titles are in development compared to the average Pokémon title.

And expectations aren’t low. People have been critical of the graphics since day one. But if you’re going to be critical of the graphics then be critical of the timeframe Gamefreak is given to make games.

That means you need to be critical of management and the upper level execs who pressure these guys to get games out at an unreasonable pace.

I mean why did Legends release in January? BDSP literally came out two months ago and we got a second Pokémon game? This coulda easily been a holiday title for this year. Think of how much that would have improved the games visuals.

Edit: I just saw your post about buts. Sorry, not buying that argument. Like I said in my first post, you can’t have a conversation about the graphics of Pokémon games without talking about the corporate machine that is the TPC. You can throw 1000 devs at a Pokémon game and it wouldn’t fix anything. It takes time to make HD games. Rendering tools still need time to process changes to the game. Art and textures still need time to make. Optimization and engine tools aren’t developed quicker because you throw more bodies at it. At some point in the development process there’s a funnel that all changes go through which leads to diminishing returns.

You want better graphics? Then the games simply need more dev time. You can’t just say “well they only get two years of dev time so I expect this level of graphics for X amount of years worked on the game.” That is not how game dev works.

 

[MetalLord]

how would you feel if the next game looked like this ??

 

[Kano]

how would you feel if the next game looked like this ??

horrified

 

[ILikeFeet]

how would you feel if the next game looked like this ??

 

[MetalLord]

tech wise,not the content itself,talking about the lighting and how the girls are rendered

 

[Deleted member 2349]

one has to assume that the developers themselves care a lot. it's on the TPC to give them more dev time and a bigger budget for these games

 

[Lucifer]

I mean, for most 3DS games textures were an issue IMO aside from some games, like yet again Next Level with Luigi's Mansion

Luigi's Mansion compensated by using simplistic colours and very good lighting and shadows, the latter being likely why they had to use simplistic texturing. Luigi's Mansion is actually a great example of how a proper implementation of an art style can make a game look visually pleasant regardless of power.

And then, that team went on to create one of the best looking games on the Switch, LM3 almost feels like a playable Disney/Pixar film.

I don't remember other 3DS games with a lack of texture filtering like the Pokemon games. It's something I specifically remember from the Pokemon games.

Honestly the 3DS games are neither here or there, it's on the Switch where the lack of polish went way out of the window.

 

[Lucifer]

Why are you so baffled. Both Monster Hunter and Xenoblade DE were in development for longer than Legends was. You’re asking for a miracle given the limited time frame Gamefreak is given to make games. If you’re going to compare this to other games take a step back and actually look at how long other titles are in development compared to the average Pokémon title.

And expectations aren’t low. People have been critical of the graphics since day one. But if you’re going to be critical of the graphics then be critical of the timeframe Gamefreak is given to make games.

That means you need to be critical of management and the upper level execs who pressure these guys to get games out at an unreasonable pace.

I mean why did Legends release in January? BDSP literally came out two months ago and we got a second Pokémon game? This coulda easily been a holiday title for this year. Think of how much that would have improved the games visuals.

Edit: I just saw your post about buts. Sorry, not buying that argument. Like I said in my first post, you can’t have a conversation about the graphics of Pokémon games without talking about the corporate machine that is the TPC. You can throw 1000 devs at a Pokémon game and it wouldn’t fix anything. It takes time to make HD games. Rendering tools still need time to process changes to the game. Art and textures still need time to make. Optimization and engine tools aren’t developed quicker because you throw more bodies at it. At some point in the development process there’s a funnel that all changes go through which leads to diminishing returns.

You want better graphics? Then the games simply need more dev time. You can’t just say “well they only get two years of dev time so I expect this level of graphics for X amount of years worked on the game.” That is not how game dev works.

I don't understand why this was pointed at me because I basically agree with almost everything you're saying here. I specifically mentioned dev time as one of the likely issues that should be a point of discussion and shouldn't be dismissed.

My personal assumption is that TPC wants that Pokemon printing machine cash on an annual basis, which is why GF gets short dev times and always deliver unpolished games. Another solution could be to expand GF, they have the financial means to do both.

Wouldn't be shocked if GF gets low budgets as well tbh.

 

[ILikeFeet]

tech wise,not the content itself,talking about the lighting and how the girls are rendered

I already don't like the plastic look in pokemon, the last thing I want is for them to look more plastic.

tech-wise, it'll be a good minute before Game Freak catches up to unreal engine, but having a global, dynamic light source and ambient occlusion would make anything better

 

[Deleted member 2349]

I don't understand why this was pointed at me because I basically agree with almost everything you're saying here. I specifically mentioned dev time as one of the likely issues that should be a point of discussion and shouldn't be dismissed.

My personal assumption is that TPC wants that Pokemon printing machine cash on an annual basis, which is why GF gets short dev times and always deliver unpolished games. Another solution could be to expand GF, they have the financial means to do both.

Wouldn't be shocked if GF gets low budgets as well tbh.

yeah, the argument isn't that GF is getting what they need and fucking it up, the argument is I don't personally care, use your mountains of cash to make a game that's up to par

 

[Lucifer]

yeah, the argument isn't that GF is getting what they need and fucking it up, the argument is I don't personally care, use your mountains of cash to make a game that's up to par

Exactly, that's basically the sum of it. All the people that criticise what's going on with the games don't necessarily direct that at GF, it's directed at whoever is making these decisions, whether that's TPC or GF, or both. All we can do is safely assume it's not Nintendo because their mentality is completely different.

 

[Clix]

Exactly, that's basically the sum of it. All the people that criticise what's going on with the games don't necessarily direct that at GF, it's directed at whoever is making these decisions, whether that's TPC or GF, or both. All we can do is safely assume it's not Nintendo because their mentality is completely different.

Maybe so, but a lot of it falls that they are just lazy or incompetent. Which is ridiculous. GF works with what they have.

When they’re given a bit more to work with, I think it works out really well. Sun and Moon was the first Pokémon game in ages that I absolutely enjoyed, and especially doing challenges over gym battles which was more interesting. X/Y bored me. I came back to it years later and learned to appreciate what it did well, but sitll didn’t care for it as much.

 

[Yoshifan31]

They have never, ever made game with good graphics. Even their handheld games all felt a gen behind, there’s a reason why IGN-like review scoring systems always gave 6/10 at best for graphics in Pokemon games

Meanwhile other devs like Falcom makes even worse looking games but they get a free pass because they aren’t working on the “biggest multimedia franchise”

 

[Lucifer]

Maybe so, but a lot of it falls that they are just lazy or incompetent. Which is ridiculous. GF works with what they have.

When they’re given a bit more to work with, I think it works out really well. Sun and Moon was the first Pokémon game in ages that I absolutely enjoyed, and especially doing challenges over gym battles which was more interesting. X/Y bored me. I came back to it years later and learned to appreciate what it did well, but sitll didn’t care for it as much.

Perhaps, but plenty of it hasn't fallen on that, on the flip side some people give the impression you can't criticise Pokemon games.

Even if the critique is misdirected it doesn't mean it's invalid or that the product suddenly becomes higher quality, it just means it's misdirected.

It's not that crazy to expect more quality and polish out of one of the biggest gaming IP's that makes insane amounts of money.

 

[Mr.Gamerson]

Their games will likely review and sell better. Likely sell enough better to justify the costs associated with better visuals. It seems like they realize that now. Pokemon Gen 9 or Pokemon Legends 2 has potential to be the first Pokemon game that lives up to the potential of the franchise in many more aspects than usual.

 

[MarcelRguez]

They have never, ever made game with good graphics. Even their handheld games all felt a gen behind, there’s a reason why IGN-like review scoring systems always gave 6/10 at best for graphics in Pokemon games

Meanwhile other devs like Falcom makes even worse looking games but they get a free pass because they aren’t working on the “biggest multimedia franchise”

They did, exactly twice:

 

[Clix]

Perhaps, but plenty of it hasn't fallen on that, on the flip side some people give the impression you can't criticise Pokemon games.

Criticism is fine. It's healthy.

BUT there is a lot of people that don't do that and express themselves in a calm rationale manner and instead just go into either hyperbole mode or shit post mode and I see it often. Heck, it is prevalent in the old place. And it gets tiring. After page 100, I would like to discuss the game now. Why do we have 70 pages of people doing the same talking point about the visuals not being the best around and hey, lets talk about what looks interesting.

Or on Twitter, someone will post that they are enjoying the game a lot, for example, and I see people that have to come in an say "BUT the graphics". It's getting absurd.

Heck, the DF guy did just that in response to two people. One, a reviewer who loved the game, and two, to a random non industry person who posted about her enjoyment of the game. And like, come on... he should know better. Came out as childish bait, to which the obsessive DF followers started filling the guys thread with nonsense.

Or the lazy dev/incompetent rhetoric. The GF people are not lazy or incompetent, and clearly seem to be passionate about the series. BUT, they do work with what they get in regards to budget.

Now will TPC give them more budget? Who knows.

Will GF expand and grow bigger? Maybe, but I doubt this one since I always get the impression they do not want to. So in that case, bigger budget from TPC would be possibly better OR more time in between games.

So what I am saying, is that criticism is always encouraged. No such thing as a perfect game and everyone has various critiques depending on their own experience or what jives with them or does not. That is okay. But after a point, it can sometimes just become a circular discussion dominated by 1 or 2 talking points and it drowns everything out.