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Discussion Does Gamefreak have a reason to care about graphics in Pokemon?

EddyZacianLand

EddyZacianLand

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One thing I have noticed with the HD games discussion is that many people say the graphics look awful and unacceptable for a brand like Pokemon.

My question is does Gamefreak even have a reason to make them better, as those games still sold really well and Legends looks to be doing the same, so is there a significant audience that doesn't buy the games because of the graphics, I.e if SwSh looked better would it be past R&B now or would the position be the same.

Imo I think the graphics are fine and it doesn't bother me, I just don't understand why Gamefreak would want to focus on the graphics more.
 
They do care to some extent. The graphics have improved with each new generation. They’ve just always been making games for hardware that’s not super-powerful (which isn’t a bad thing). The Pokèmon games look absolutely fine for the console their on and what they aim to accomplish in terms of performance.
 
legends may be getting a lot of shit but it's substantially better (edit: visually) than anything preceding it and I think that has helped it somewhat
 
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TheMindOfThomas said:
They do care to some extent. The graphics have improved with each new generation. They’ve just always been making games for hardware that’s not super-powerful (which isn’t a bad thing). The Pokèmon games look absolutely fine for the console their on and what they aim to accomplish in terms of performance.
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hardware is not the problem here
 
"why would game freak changes anything to the Pokémon formula if Sword and Shield sold that much"

next game changes everything about the formula

it's about time stop pretending GF only cares about selling units of their games at the lowest possible cost for them. Legends wouldn't exist as it is if that was the case
 
Kano said:
"why would game freak changes anything to the Pokémon formula if Sword and Shield sold that much"

next game changes everything about the formula

it's about time stop pretending GF only cares about selling units of their games at the lowest possible cost for them. Legends wouldn't exist as it is if that was the case
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That's true but even with Legends, people say the graphics are unacceptable and you would think that would be the same game, that changed a lot about the formula, that improved the graphics a lot.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
That's true but even with Legends, people say the graphics are unacceptable and you would think that would be the same game, that changed a lot about the formula, that improved the graphics a lot.
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"People say" a lot of things and 99% of it is meaningless and doesn't matter. PLA has much more advanced graphics than any game they've made before, it's clear that they actively want to improve the graphics.

Just like they clearly wanted to change up the formula.
 
Skittzo said:
"People say" a lot of things and 99% of it is meaningless and doesn't matter. PLA has much more advanced graphics than any game they've made before, it's clear that they actively want to improve the graphics.

Just like they clearly wanted to change up the formula.
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I think the problem here is that the graphics improvements are happening at a way too slow of a pace for something like Pokemon, the critics feel.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
I think the problem here is that the graphics improvements are happening at a way too slow of a pace for something like Pokemon, the critics feel.
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Again you're simply quoting random people's opinions which is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether Game Freak has a reason to care about graphics.

It's clearly demonstrable that they do.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
But then why don't the games look as good as say BOTW then?
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For starters that's an opinion. Personally I love PLA's art style, actually a lot more than BotW's. However the draw distance and pop-in in PLA is much, much worse.

There are I'm sure tons of reasons why, from the fact that having hundreds of creatures with unique rigs and animations takes up much more of their budget and time than the handful of creature models in BOTW, to the fact that the two games are on entirely different engines made by entirely different development teams.

The bottom line is, Game Freak can't focus as much on graphics as EPD3 can because 1) they are locked into a much more rigid development cycle and 2) their games tend to prioritize many other aspects above graphics.

But that doesn't say they don't care about improving graphics.
 
EddyZacianLand said:
But then why don't the games look as good as say BOTW then?
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Considerably less development time, different games that prioritize different things (BotW has notoriously few enemy types), less support/technical ability to push the Switch hardware (PLA actually looks really good when you upscale it on emulator, arguably better than BotW in some cases), simply less experience, there could be a hundred reasons for this, weird comparison.
 
Skittzo said:
For starters that's an opinion. Personally I love PLA's art style, actually a lot more than BotW's. However the draw distance and pop-in in PLA is much, much worse.

There are I'm sure tons of reasons why, from the fact that having hundreds of creatures with unique rigs and animations takes up much more of their budget and time than the handful of creature models in BOTW, to the fact that the two games are on entirely different engines made by entirely different development teams.

The bottom line is, Game Freak can't focus as much on graphics as EPD3 can because 1) they are locked into a much more rigid development cycle and 2) their games tend to prioritize many other aspects above graphics.

But that doesn't say they don't care about improving graphics.
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After hearing it from pretty much every reviewer to loads of people that Pokemon looks unacceptable for so long I have just been regulated to just hearing horrible things about it and how gf doesn't care, glad to see I was wrong.
 
Their problem is the artstyle... doesn't look consistent since Sword/Shield... The GBA/DS era were the best... that GBA pixel art feels so nostalgic.. they should release some small digital games on that style ( have like a B team on that )
To be honest, PLA is the most fun i've had with Pokémon in like 4/5 years, gen 7 was awful in my opinion
 
EddyZacianLand said:
After hearing it from pretty much every reviewer to loads of people that Pokemon looks unacceptable for so long I have just been regulated to just hearing horrible things about it and how gf doesn't care, glad to see I was wrong.
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Honest question, have you played PLA?

I'm actually shocked at how good it looks in handheld mode sometimes.
 
CloudLuma said:
Their problem is the artstyle... doesn't look consistent since Sword/Shield... The GBA/DS era were the best... that GBA pixel art feels so nostalgic.. they should release some small digital games on that style ( have like a B team on that )
To be honest, PLA is the most fun i've had with Pokémon in like 4/5 years, gen 7 was awful in my opinion
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The artstyle in PLA far more consistent than in SwSh which just a pretty ugly game with some peaks (towns). Almost all the graphical problems in PLA are probably due to performance and come over as more "technical" issues to me, I don't know how to explain it properly but the game looks fine to me.
 
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correlation is not causation and games are a complex sum of their parts, this is a silly question that can’t be isolated imo
 
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EddyZacianLand said:
That's true but even with Legends, people say the graphics are unacceptable and you would think that would be the same game, that changed a lot about the formula, that improved the graphics a lot.
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People will always move the goalpost with GF and Pokemon
 
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I think they care very much, but optimisation on weak console architecture isn't their strong suit.

So they do what every 1st/2nd party developer does: compensate with styling and shading, to mixed results.
 
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EddyZacianLand said:
I think the problem here is that the graphics improvements are happening at a way too slow of a pace for something like Pokemon, the critics feel.
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I think the graphics complainers need to understand that Pokemon is not ever going to be on a cutting edge platform, and that Game Freak could step up their game with Gen 9 especially if they get Dane to play around with. Pokemon gets the job done and we're currently in a second Golden Age of Pokemon. Detective Pikachu 2 will probably sell a nice amount too.
 
They should, because it's obviously a major criticism and talking point for their games.

I though Legends looks fine ish at first but honestly the more I'm playing the more I'm coming to terms that it just looks like arse.

Let's just disregard the fidelity such as aliasing and res and look at the rest.

it has shit loads of pop ins, every time you turn the camera something is loading in almost in front of your face.

Extremely low quality textures on everything in the background and even on clothes and hair of characters.

Loads of asset reuse and similar barren areas.

Everything in the background has that weird plastic purple shine on it.

Characters and pokemon in the background are moving like they're slideshows.

Grass is glitching up and it's rather unfortunate looking.

You actually see pokemon switch between low and higher poly models N64 style.

I can safely say that this is the ugliest game on the Switch.

Once the novelty of the gameplay loop wears off, it just becomes a fast food game you stroll around in, just like AC games for me, at least with those you are looking at something visually interesting.






MetalLord said:
People gonna swallow their words when they see the next game,mark my words
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We've been saying this since X/Y, it's always the next game lmao.
 
Raccoon said:
legends may be getting a lot of shit but it's substantially better (edit: visually) than anything preceding it and I think that has helped it somewhat
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It’s true, and many acknowledge that. But Pokémon should not be judged only against Pokémon.
 
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The visuals improve with each new game/gen, some people just want an unreasonable jump. I remember before Sword /shield people comparing the models for let's go vs Sword and Shield and bemoaning that the new game was a downgrade. Then right before Arceus, same thing, comparisons between Sword/Shield and Arceus and saying it was downgraded. For a lot of people nothing will ever be good enough.
 
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Skittzo said:
This might be the most outrageous thing I've read on FamiBoards so far, kudos.
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I thought I typed i out, I wanted to add to that... The ugliest game I've played on the Switch, granted I've mostly played first parties, but still, the point is GF is obviously leagues begind the rest of Nintendo.
 
Lucifer said:
They should, because it's obviously a major criticism and talking point for their games.

I though Legends looks fine ish at first but honestly the more I'm playing the more I'm coming to terms that it just looks like arse.

Let's just disregard the fidelity such as aliasing and res and look at the rest.

it has shit loads of pop ins, every time you turn the camera something is loading in almost in front of your face.

Extremely low quality textures on everything in the background and even on clothes and hair of characters.

Loads of asset reuse and similar barren areas.

Everything in the background has that weird plastic purple shine on it.

Characters and pokemon in the background are moving like they're slideshows.

Grass is glitching up and it's rather unfortunate looking.

You actually see pokemon switch between low and higher poly models N64 style.

I can safely say that this is the ugliest game on the Switch.

Once the novelty of the gameplay loop wears off, it just becomes a fast food game you stroll around in, just like AC games for me, at least with those you are looking at something visually interesting.








We've been saying this since X/Y, it's always the next game lmao.
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This time is true,their new R&D department hired the best of the best in the industry
 
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Lucifer said:
I thought I typed i out, I wanted to add to that... The ugliest game I've played on the Switch, granted I've mostly played first parties, but still, the point is GF is obviously leagues begind the rest of Nintendo.
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I can't tell you your opinion is wrong of course, I just vehemently disagree. I think PLA has a great art style that helps cover up the issues with draw distance and things in the background in general.

Personally I'm finding myself very rarely looking at the background in general so I think they made the right choice to dial back those settings in order to preserve a steady framerate.
 
Yes, the fact they went with a BOTW style shows they care. It's probably just not top of the list for them.
 
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How much of the game was made under covid?

When you have a target release date set in stone, hardware that is frankly outadated, and creating new systems / reinventing a formula, something's gotta give.
 
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Why should they care about anything? They'll still sell based on brand name right? Maybe gut the gameplay too, heck why stop there

They clearly care. They've taken player feedback into account many times.
 
Legends actually looks quite nice sometimes. I'm sure Gamefreak cares, they just have to operate within their means. They're a pretty small company and seemingly on tighter schedules than many other teams working on Nintendo games.
 
Like people have said, GF does care about graphics, but whether or not they have the means to pull it off is a different question. Maybe Arceus' success will lead to more investment in the games. Or maybe it'll have the opposite effect.

Either way, GF has been making some huge steps in the Switch era with each title they've put out (even SwSh, for all their issues, changed up a ton and clearly paved the way for Arceus' bigger changes) and hopefully that'll continue to be the case.
 
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I don't think the game is ugly. That sentiment is repeated to the point where it seems like consensus, as if it should be compared to the port of Ark Survival Evolved. I acknowledge the lack of technical polish in some areas, even compared to other first-party Switch games, but in my 10+ hours of playtime so far in both handheld and my 65 inch OLED, "ugly" never came to mind. I think the game has a coherent style and palette that is aiming for a Japanese watercolor aesthetic, and is targeting a higher resolution than other JRPGs like Xenoblade which inevitably means compromises.
 
I'm getting pretty tired of this rhetoric. Yes they do care about visuals. No they don't take shortcuts or neglect to make the graphics look good because "they don't care" or because "the games will sell anyway." We cannot have a conversation about the graphics in Pokemon games without interrogating the incredibly limited amount of time that Gamefreak is given to churn these games out. Legends Arceus was in development for a little over two years. That is a pitiful amount of time to develop a modern HD video game, let alone a giant AAA game.

Zelda BotW was in development for 5 years. SMTV was in development for just as long, if not longer. DQ11 was in development for 4 years. Bravely Default 2 was in development for 3 years! Even that game got more development time than Legends.

Passion is not what is lacking at Gamefreak. In fact, given how good Legends turned out, we can infer that Gamefreak is in fact very passionate about their work. You don't make a game like Legends in a little over two years if your developers are lacking in passion.

The core problem is that The Pokemon Company has failed to adjust to the realities of HD game development. Pokemon games need more time. Throwing more money and bodies at the problem won't fix anything, because good art and robust development tools take time to develop. I do think positive changes are on the way since they have already outsourced a Pokemon game to an outside studio. Perhaps cycling between 2-3 studios is the future of Pokemon, similar to how Activision managed COD.

Either way, the Pokemon Company needs to self reflect and figure out exactly how to move forward. Their current strategy is unsustainable. They need to realize that they simply can't have a Pokemon game every year.

And the gamers who demand a Pokemon game every year also need to realize that they won't ever look good graphically and readjust their expectations of what Pokemon games can accomplish if given such little development time.
 
TurtleRock said:
Passion is not what is lacking at Gamefreak. In fact, given how good Legends turned out, we can infer that Gamefreak is in fact very passionate about their work. You don't make a game like Legends in a little over two years if your developers are lacking in passion.

The core problem is that The Pokemon Company has failed to adjust to the realities of HD game development. Pokemon games need more time. Throwing more money and bodies at the problem won't fix anything, because good art and robust development tools take time to develop. I do think positive changes are on the way since they have already outsourced a Pokemon game to an outside studio. Perhaps cycling between 2-3 studios is the future of Pokemon, similar to how Activision managed COD.
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I hope that with ILCA’s success with BDSP they will consider cycling studios in order to give each game more development time. Perhaps outsource more spinoffs.
 
meatbag said:
I hope that with ILCA’s success with BDSP they will consider cycling studios in order to give each game more development time. Perhaps outsource more spinoffs.
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Outsourcing remakes and having two teams cycling with the other mainline titles might be enough. Provided ILCA or whoever else ends up with the job brings the remakes to the point where TPC doesn't feel the need to have two mainline games releasing within two months of each other
 
NabiscoFelt said:
Outsourcing remakes and having two teams cycling with the other mainline titles might be enough. Provided ILCA or whoever else ends up with the job brings the remakes to the point where TPC doesn't feel the need to have two mainline games releasing within two months of each other
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On that note, I wonder if we’re going to get another Pokemon game for 2022. My gut instinct is telling me that Arceus DLC would be more likely.
 
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People forget they made sword/shield, their first hd pokemon in 3 years while developing 5 other games at the same time, with a team of 150,incredible prolific team,meanwhile botw team still havent released their second switch game,its like they say :
C9GC4Oy2E8A9Gx8ybMhKJvRMnxQBgiMWtAKsrvUTotuBLVaYwdsERHWLjBwEAEJB3G0
 
EddyZacianLand said:
One thing I have noticed with the HD games discussion is that many people say the graphics look awful and unacceptable for a brand like Pokemon.

My question is does Gamefreak even have a reason to make them better, as those games still sold really well and Legends looks to be doing the same, so is there a significant audience that doesn't buy the games because of the graphics, I.e if SwSh looked better would it be past R&B now or would the position be the same.

Imo I think the graphics are fine and it doesn't bother me, I just don't understand why Gamefreak would want to focus on the graphics more.
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To be fair we have a small bubble of Gamers TM that truly believe a game will destroy your retinas and burn your house if it drops to 29 FPS once every 8 hours. Not sure how they intersect with the group saying this, but the word "unacceptable" makes me think they're pretty similar.
 
They absolutely don't. Their priority is making sure the game runs well. They sacrificed a lot in Legends to get the game moving as smoothly as possible. They just need to make a fun game as the sales show.
 
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They wouldn't have established an R&D division for high-end graphics last year if they didn't care and don't view it as an area they need to improve in. It'll take awhile for the fruits of that labor to be seen, of course, but its absurd to assume that the only explaination for the lacking visuals of the HD mainline titles is simply that they don't care.
 
This thread feels like a low key complain thread.
 
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